The Dudeism Forum

To be honest this is more about generating a more enjoyable place and more stimulating discussions. As soon as Theism is introduced into an argument it generally sidetracks the more sublime investigations. Like that scene in Woody Allen's Husbands and Wives where Sydney Pollack's hot new young girlfriend tries to push the value crystal healing at a party with a bunch of academic older folks and she gets frustrated and angry and an embarrassed and angry Pollack has to drag her out of the party.

Okay, maybe that's a mean analogy. But sometimes it feels that way. I personally have a lot of new age acquaintances and their way of thinking seems the same as the traditional Theists and always tends to be like a rhetorical bull in a china shop. Suddenly everyone has to acknowledge or debunk a lot of spurious ideas and feelings and intuitions and whatever finer points of anthropology or psychology or sociology suddenly get replaced by a lot of magical and wishful thinking.

The reason for avoiding magical or wishful thinking here is not because it's wrong, per se, but because it's often narcissistic and uninteresting from a Dudeist perspective. Dudeism should be essentially pragmatic, no? Unicorns and rainbows have no place here. Am I wrong?

I engage in a local acoustic jam and suddenly the idea that we should all detune to 432 mhz from the standard 440 has taken hold. There's a meme going around that 432mhz is somehow more spiritual and that the universe is based on it somehow and that there was a conspiracy to put it to 440 for some reason. It's a load of hooey. So, none of the musicians can properly tune without an electronic tuner (all set at 440) and each time a new muso shows up we have to wait for him or her to tune to 432. It basically fucks everything up. And for no reason other than because of a "magical thinking" meme that has taken over the jam. I feel the same way about some Theists who come into our beach community. They end up wasting a lot of time and energy, both on their part and on the parts of those who disagree with them.

Therefore, Theists are welcome, but how do we prevent these boring conversations where we all argue about imaginary friends and outdated scripture and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Oh, and I didn't mean to slight the Theists here by suggesting they were into unicorns and rainbows. There are many different flavors of Theism. Extreme literal Theists may be fans of metaphorical unicorns but I know that others look at God as a more mystical concept that eludes definition - in fact drawing its very power from that unknowableness. I personally am quite sympathetic to the latter, seeing it as a sort of mental placeholder for transcendent ideas (cf. Gnosticism, Vedism).

You're right, perhaps the title of our supposed manifesto (...or forum rules page) should be "440 - or fuck off".  But then there's this dogmatic ring to it...  sigh.

Actually I guess I should leave it alone.
Forum Dude has wrapped her all up. And all in all things seem to have worked out pretty good. But I posted below before really reading the previous couple pages of the thread.

--------------------------------

This is interesting and probably walks a nice line between both abiding (no pun intended) viewpoints.

The point is that if you raise people to accept realities that don't require any basis in fact then anything is possible no matter how ludicrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbgVV2ql5MM

There is no need, zero for any God to justify kindness. That can be done simply with humanist principles without invoking any Deity. Now think of a time when a God was used to motivate people to doing bad things. You don't have to think for half a second.
While I'm not sure I'd be willing to wager that if you look at the bible whenever God "communicates" with someone it is to move them to some evil deed. Some mass slaughter of other nastiness. Not very often to tell them to love each other. Is it really surprising that we end up with so many Christian Hate groups?

Quote from: forumdude on May 27, 2014, 11:30:19 PM
...but how do we prevent these boring conversations where we all argue about imaginary friends and outdated scripture and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Perhaps we use this method to alert Theists that we think their blathering is rather boring? Could work.

Quote from: forumdude on May 27, 2014, 11:30:19 PM
To be honest this is more about generating a more enjoyable place and more stimulating discussions. As soon as Theism is introduced into an argument it generally sidetracks the more sublime investigations. Like that scene in Woody Allen's Husbands and Wives where Sydney Pollack's hot new young girlfriend tries to push the value crystal healing at a party with a bunch of academic older folks and she gets frustrated and angry and an embarrassed and angry Pollack has to drag her out of the party.

Okay, maybe that's a mean analogy. But sometimes it feels that way. I personally have a lot of new age acquaintances and their way of thinking seems the same as the traditional Theists and always tends to be like a rhetorical bull in a china shop. Suddenly everyone has to acknowledge or debunk a lot of spurious ideas and feelings and intuitions and whatever finer points of anthropology or psychology or sociology suddenly get replaced by a lot of magical and wishful thinking.

The reason for avoiding magical or wishful thinking here is not because it's wrong, per se, but because it's often narcissistic and uninteresting from a Dudeist perspective. Dudeism should be essentially pragmatic, no? Unicorns and rainbows have no place here. Am I wrong?

I engage in a local acoustic jam and suddenly the idea that we should all detune to 432 mhz from the standard 440 has taken hold. There's a meme going around that 432mhz is somehow more spiritual and that the universe is based on it somehow and that there was a conspiracy to put it to 440 for some reason. It's a load of hooey. So, none of the musicians can properly tune without an electronic tuner (all set at 440) and each time a new muso shows up we have to wait for him or her to tune to 432. It basically fucks everything up. And for no reason other than because of a "magical thinking" meme that has taken over the jam. I feel the same way about some Theists who come into our beach community. They end up wasting a lot of time and energy, both on their part and on the parts of those who disagree with them.

Therefore, Theists are welcome, but how do we prevent these boring conversations where we all argue about imaginary friends and outdated scripture and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Very good forumdude! And to sort of smooth down the icing and but a topping to the whole deal here I want you to know I  have finally finished installing the "God Code" right here on this forum!
It's all here now!

Quote from: cckeiser on May 29, 2014, 07:39:04 PM

Quote from: forumdude on May 27, 2014, 11:30:19 PM
To be honest this is more about generating a more enjoyable place and more stimulating discussions. As soon as Theism is introduced into an argument it generally sidetracks the more sublime investigations. Like that scene in Woody Allen's Husbands and Wives where Sydney Pollack's hot new young girlfriend tries to push the value crystal healing at a party with a bunch of academic older folks and she gets frustrated and angry and an embarrassed and angry Pollack has to drag her out of the party.

Okay, maybe that's a mean analogy. But sometimes it feels that way. I personally have a lot of new age acquaintances and their way of thinking seems the same as the traditional Theists and always tends to be like a rhetorical bull in a china shop. Suddenly everyone has to acknowledge or debunk a lot of spurious ideas and feelings and intuitions and whatever finer points of anthropology or psychology or sociology suddenly get replaced by a lot of magical and wishful thinking.

The reason for avoiding magical or wishful thinking here is not because it's wrong, per se, but because it's often narcissistic and uninteresting from a Dudeist perspective. Dudeism should be essentially pragmatic, no? Unicorns and rainbows have no place here. Am I wrong?

I engage in a local acoustic jam and suddenly the idea that we should all detune to 432 mhz from the standard 440 has taken hold. There's a meme going around that 432mhz is somehow more spiritual and that the universe is based on it somehow and that there was a conspiracy to put it to 440 for some reason. It's a load of hooey. So, none of the musicians can properly tune without an electronic tuner (all set at 440) and each time a new muso shows up we have to wait for him or her to tune to 432. It basically fucks everything up. And for no reason other than because of a "magical thinking" meme that has taken over the jam. I feel the same way about some Theists who come into our beach community. They end up wasting a lot of time and energy, both on their part and on the parts of those who disagree with them.

Therefore, Theists are welcome, but how do we prevent these boring conversations where we all argue about imaginary friends and outdated scripture and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Very good forumdude! And to sort of smooth down the icing and but a topping to the whole deal here I want you to know I  have finally finished installing the "God Code" right here on this forum!
It's all here now!

What is the "God Code?"

I have to be honest here I am a little disappointed. This whole thread was very simple can you be a dudest and an atheist or theist. To me the answer is yes to both because your religious beliefs dont matter here it's very simple. How the individual makes it work is their problem not ours nobody was preaching theism no one was trying to convert any one to a religion. What I saw was a great deal of atheist preaching complete disrespect to anyone with any kind of faith and a great deal of intolerance. This is not dudeism as I understand it. I was here for icon he was an asshole and I defended this forum on the Facebook page against his ranting. But honestly I'm not so sure he was completly wrong about the hate and intolerance for people of faith here. I'm not religious I'm agnostic and if someone was shoving their faith in my face I would be among the first to tell them to move along. But there is a big difference between pushing out someone whose preaching and the open ridicule and disrespect for someone who's only point was that we are free to pick our beliefs as we want and call our selves what we want. Dudeism is about living your life the way you want without judging others or caring about being judged. That's not what happened here. No one here has the right to tell me or anyone what makes them a Christian or Muslim or Dudeist or Pagan that is for the individual to choose. This whole thread has soured my opinion of the forum in general talk all you want about not preaching but it seems that only applies to those with religious views. Atheists are free to preach ridicule and belittle as they please. It's kind of disgraceful really I don't follow that brand of dudism. I'm very disappointed in what happened here.

Quote from: The_Sleevez on May 30, 2014, 12:31:38 AM
I have to be honest here I am a little disappointed. This whole thread was very simple can you be a dudest and an atheist or theist. To me the answer is yes to both because your religious beliefs dont matter here it's very simple. How the individual makes it work is their problem not ours nobody was preaching theism no one was trying to convert any one to a religion. What I saw was a great deal of atheist preaching complete disrespect to anyone with any kind of faith and a great deal of intolerance. This is not dudeism as I understand it. I was here for icon he was an asshole and I defended this forum on the Facebook page against his ranting. But honestly I'm not so sure he was completly wrong about the hate and intolerance for people of faith here. I'm not religious I'm agnostic and if someone was shoving their faith in my face I would be among the first to tell them to move along. But there is a big difference between pushing out someone whose preaching and the open ridicule and disrespect for someone who's only point was that we are free to pick our beliefs as we want and call our selves what we want. Dudeism is about living your life the way you want without judging others or caring about being judged. That's not what happened here. No one here has the right to tell me or anyone what makes them a Christian or Muslim or Dudeist or Pagan that is for the individual to choose. This whole thread has soured my opinion of the forum in general talk all you want about not preaching but it seems that only applies to those with religious views. Atheists are free to preach ridicule and belittle as they please. It's kind of disgraceful really I don't follow that brand of dudism. I'm very disappointed in what happened here.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. If no one has the right to tell anyone what makes a person a "fill in the blank" then why do we waste the space on our pages explaining what Dudeism is?
I often find that the questions along these lines run aground when people are talking 2 different languages. Clearly anyone can go to the Dudeism site, click a link and get ordained and "become a Dudeist". Does that make them a Dudeist?
I'd say not. (But of course it doesn't really bear beating up unless of course you find that sort of thing entertaining and/or enlightening.) It comes down to what a person believes.  If a member of the Volkesfront comes to our page and gets ordained it in no way makes them a Dudeist. Why is that? Because the beliefs of the Volkesfront are clearly so incompatible with Dudeist principles that it would be impossible for them to be both. They can join, engage on the board etc. But if asked "Can a person be a Dudeist and a member of the Volkesfront" I'd say that is impossible. In order to be what makes a Dudeist they'd have to stop being what it takes to be a member of the Volkesfront and visa versa.
Some ideas are incompatible. And having a discussion about that is not being intollerant. Opinions may differ but none should be silenced in the name of sacred cows.
A person has the right to demand respect. But they do not IMO have the right to demand respect of their beliefs. That is not the same thing. I do not believe that I have been disrespectful of any individual.

Perhaps a "Dudeist Academy" is order.
A package deal. Cruise and stay at an all inclusive with all day intense coursework in Dudeist studies.
Don't we have any entrepreneurs to make this happen?
I mean you gotta feed the monkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2a_RAO4CWg

Throw in top-shelf booze and I'm down.

Quote from: The_Sleevez on May 30, 2014, 12:31:38 AMDudeism is about living your life the way you want without judging others or caring about being judged... Atheists are free to preach ridicule and belittle as they please... I'm very disappointed in what happened here.

Trust me, I don't feel any more empowered or entitled than anyone else. At the risk of being called "bigoted and angry" again (not by you), I don't always feel comfortable expressing my views here anymore. I did in fact answer the question; yes, it's possible.

I may be wrong, but at times I feel like I'm lumped into a category with others because I have one thing in common with them.

So honestly I don't think I'll reply again when it comes to this kind of topic.

*Sigh* - atheists aren't judging. They're reacting to BEING judged.  It makes no sense to preach non-judgement, yet tolerate judgement.

It's kinda like preaching peace, yet tolerating war.  A strong analogy, but suitable.

Quote from: The_Sleevez on May 30, 2014, 12:31:38 AMDudeism is about living your life the way you want without judging others or caring about being judged... Atheists are free to preach ridicule and belittle as they please... I'm very disappointed in what happened here.

Like The_Sleeves dude. I mean really?
Just look at it dude.....it was a heavy loaded leading question. Everyone Knew where it was going as soon a it was asked.
Sort of like #Facepalm......Duh!

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 29, 2014, 08:13:17 PM

Quote from: cckeiser on May 29, 2014, 07:39:04 PM


Very good forumdude! And to sort of smooth down the icing and but a topping to the whole deal here I want you to know I  have finally finished installing the "God Code" right here on this forum!
It's all here now!

What is the "God Code?"

Sorry DigitalBuddha.....I was just being fractious.....didn't help any did it?