Is a dudeist an atheist?

[meekon5]

I have to be honest here I am a little disappointed. This whole thread was very simple can you be a dudest and an atheist or theist. To me the answer is yes to both because your religious beliefs dont matter here it's very simple. How the individual makes it work is their problem not ours nobody was preaching theism no one was trying to convert any one to a religion. What I saw was a great deal of atheist preaching complete disrespect to anyone with any kind of faith and a great deal of intolerance. This is not dudeism as I understand it. I was here for icon he was an asshole and I defended this forum on the Facebook page against his ranting. But honestly I'm not so sure he was completly wrong about the hate and intolerance for people of faith here. I'm not religious I'm agnostic and if someone was shoving their faith in my face I would be among the first to tell them to move along. But there is a big difference between pushing out someone whose preaching and the open ridicule and disrespect for someone who's only point was that we are free to pick our beliefs as we want and call our selves what we want. Dudeism is about living your life the way you want without judging others or caring about being judged. That's not what happened here. No one here has the right to tell me or anyone what makes them a Christian or Muslim or Dudeist or Pagan that is for the individual to choose. This whole thread has soured my opinion of the forum in general talk all you want about not preaching but it seems that only applies to those with religious views. Atheists are free to preach ridicule and belittle as they please. It's kind of disgraceful really I don't follow that brand of dudism. I'm very disappointed in what happened here.

I agree with The_Sleevez.

I too was a major activist against Icon, but doubt my stance now.

You will notice I gave up on trying to put my point of view early on.

I am a theist.

I am a dudeist.

Whether it was meant that way or not there was a lot of atheist comment that could in no way be called anything but preaching.

Q: Why do you think Dudeism has become so popular?

...Moreover, one can be a Dudeist and still remain a Christian, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu, etc. Dudeism isn't a strict system – it's more of a method of living, a state of mind. In order to keep your mind limber, Dudeism needs to remain limber as well...

and if theist can't be Dudeists why is the Dudespaper printing articles like this:

Dudeism for Christians.

I also refer you to this thread:

There are two Books in the Bible that tend to be the faves for Christian Dudes/Dudeist Christians, IMHO:

1) Saint Paul's Epistle to the Galatians:  Jesus' followers in Galatia were very unDude.  They had all these hang ups about following rules and stuff.  Paul wrote to them suggesting that they, like, mellow the heck out, man.  If yer a righteous Dude, the rules aren't what's really important, man!  Too much focus on all those rules totally distracts us from hearing what Jesus was trying to tell us about being a righteous Dude in the first place.  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=1&version=31

2) Ecclesiastes: According to this Book's author, it doesn't matter if you're a wise man or a foolish man - either way life ends in death.  So, you might as well enjoy the simple pleasures of daily life, such as eating, drinking, and taking enjoyment in one's wife and work.  My personal favourite parts are when he warns about the pointlessness of argument and debate, since they never really settle matters anyway.  Instead, just walk away, man.  Very Dude.  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&chapter=1&version=31

This thread has been full of some very worrying intolerant attitudes.

[Hominid]

So, then, is your stance to tolerate intolerance?  I don't think it's good to be a doormat to people like Icon.....  or any preachy person.  The issue of being a deist is - I think - secondary.  I don't care what you believe, just don't shove it down my throat with your words or your actions.  That's one of the tenants of Dudeism - you gotta take it easy.  If I've sounded undude, it's only because I'm vocal about others who are undude to me.  And - the major mono-theistic religions all tell their adherents to proselytise, so any follower not doing so is being disobedient to their faith. That's why my opinion is what it is.......

[meekon5]

So, then, is your stance to tolerate intolerance?  I don't think it's good to be a doormat to people like Icon.....  or any preachy person.  The issue of being a deist is - I think - secondary.  I don't care what you believe, just don't shove it down my throat with your words or your actions.  That's one of the tenants of Dudeism - you gotta take it easy.  If I've sounded undude, it's only because I'm vocal about others who are undude to me.  And - the major mono-theistic religions all tell their adherents to proselytise, so any follower not doing so is being disobedient to their faith. That's why my opinion is what it is.......

No my stance is to not tolerate preaching from any side atheist or theist.

Again the statement "the major mono-theistic religions all tell their adherents to proselytise" relies on the myth that there are only one point of view on the major religions.

Any good historian will tell you that there are more than one version of the bible (even versions that don't include the resurection of christ) and certain groups dictate certain texts, St Stephen stipulated what books where to be included in the Roman Catholic Bible excluding a number of books that have copies in the Coptic Bible. The Romans and the Vandels fell out because they were different christian sects (the Vandels being Arian christians, The Arian concept of Christ is that the Son of God did not always exist, but was created by—and is therefore distinct from—God the Father).

Your statement is an oversimplification and an excuse.

So your argument is that because Icon was a preachy fundamentalist idiot all theists are to.

And remember you are talking to one of the major anti-christians on the forum, and a poly-theist.

[Hominid]

Your statement is an oversimplification and an excuse.

Telling me it's an excuse is a judgement you don't get to make.  And the fact that there are various versions of the bible doesn't make my statement an oversimplification - I hardly doubt you could find a modern day Christian who doesn't follow what has become the commonly accepted translations of the bible, so your accusation is a distraction from the real point that those who don't proselytize are wishy washy, and not real followers of their faith.

Icon was an idiot because he used poor judgement in his preachiness.  Not all Christians are idiots... your words, not mine.

And remember you are talking to one of the major anti-christians on the forum, and a poly-theist.

You've stated that on more than one occasion. Feeling defensive? It's not been my goal here to offend anyone...

[meekon5]

Your statement is an oversimplification and an excuse.

Telling me it's an excuse is a judgement you don't get to make.  And the fact that there are various versions of the bible doesn't make my statement an oversimplification - I hardly doubt you could find a modern day Christian who doesn't follow what has become the commonly accepted translations of the bible, so your accusation is a distraction from the real point that those who don't proselytize are wishy washy, and not real followers of their faith.

"I hardly doubt you could find a modern day Christian who doesn't follow what has become the commonly accepted translations of the bible"

Allow me to refer you to an interesting article from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations

Particularly the "complete bibles" part.

The line of bible translation from the Vulgate Bible through the King James is not the only version and not commonly excepted.

It may be so amongst US christian sects.

And what you're trying to tell me is that the mormons are using the exact text that the Roman Catholics are and the Tora matches the old testiment?

Also "real point that those who don't proselytize are wishy washy, and not real followers of their faith."

Again no my point has always been as Dudeists why would we care?

And remember you are talking to one of the major anti-christians on the forum, and a poly-theist.

You've stated that on more than one occasion. Feeling defensive? It's not been my goal here to offend anyone...

Yes because after a number of years on this forum I am faced with the line of this thread saying to me I am a theist therefore cannot be a dudeist, therefore should not be here.

[Hominid]

I think it's important to differentiate between the various kinds of deists. I certainly don't paint you with the same brush as the mono-theistic bible-bashing Christians...  so please don't take offence!  A pantheist or polytheist is a far cry from that...

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that no matter what version of the bible modern day Christians do follow, they're all going to have the same basic message re: proselytizing.  Think Acts, chapter 2 (Pentacost).

[meekon5]

I have mostly avoided comment on this thread because I have seen a burgeoning flame war with people typing in upper case and getting very irate.

but it has just occurred to me.

You're atheists.

You're suggesting that a bunch of people who you don't agree with are wrongly interpreting a book that you don't believe in, and getting upset that they are not practicing their religion the way you think they should, even though you don't agree with their point of view, and don't think they should in the first place.

I re-state the fundamental point of view that everyone conveniently ignores every time I mention it.

...

I actually concur with cc on this.

Dudeism does not state "there is no god" so can't be atheist.

Dudeism does not care and can't be bothered.

By default Dudeism is agnostic (by none action).

...

We just don't care, any of you are welcome.

Dudeism is not Athiest unless you feel that is what you need it to be.

Again:

Dudeism does not care and can't be bothered.

Stop ranting like  fundamentalist theists about something that actually isn't any of your business let the theists argue amongst themselves about who is right or wrong about who interprets what which way.

The true Dudeist way is not to be bothered until someone starts trying to wave their point of view in your face.

Theist, atheist, mono-theist, poly-theist, pan-theist, who ever.

[Hominid]

The true Dudeist way is not to be bothered until someone starts trying to wave their point of view in your face.

That's all I've been saying all along...  So when it does get waved in my face, it does become my business, and will quickly point out their erroneous beliefs with logic and reason.

[Bullett00th]

the beauty of Dudeism is that it doesn't TRULY put any stereotypes on you no matter what your religious views are.

I myself is an ex-atheist, but I've shifted to agnosticism. I think Neil deGrasse Tyson describes perfectly why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

[forumdude]

Personally I think Meekon is being a bit disingenuous here. Meekon, you're taking issue with people taking issue with something, when you take issue with points of view you think are incorrect all the time. You can't call what Biker Dude (the most aggressive anti-Theist here) does preachiness in the same way that Icon was preachy. I find some of Biker Dude's rhetoric too aggressive sometimes for my taste but this isn't about Atheists "preaching". In the same way you could be said to be preaching time and time again by being a stickler for details in a poorly-reasoned assumption or screed by some other member.

The problem is clear to me - Dudeism is a logical, rational religion and if people start using irrational arguments to make their points or argue for a point of view then it's going to be incompatible. No problem being poetical about it, of course, so long as the division is clear.

Now that incompatibility doesn't mean Dudeism is Anti-Theist. It only means that we should mind the gap between them.

Honestly, sometimes I think this is much adude about nothing. It's a glitch in our notion of how categories work. Most of the disagreements people have seem to have something to do with the inability to recognize that something can be true on one level but not another. I'm fine with whatever someone believes about the unknown, but I'm not fine with it if someone uses their unprovable assumptions as a means to further an agenda or win an argument.

[forumdude]

However, I should also state that there's a slippery slope into antagonism that comes when people react too quickly to Theists use of the Bible or what have you for illustrative purposes. That's why I was thinking that we should draw some parameters so people know whether they're venturing into the swamp of unDudeness. One of my favorite scenes in TBL is when Walter says "Well, there isn't a literal connection." and Dude points out there isn't any connection. It's hard to know when things switch from level headed to head-in-the-clouds. I think that's the thing that irks some people here - when people start getting too lah-dee-dah about their philosophies and show a type of wishful, precious thinking about what they want to believe is true in the absence of any evidence. If there isn't a literal connection, it's just not going to fly here, IMDO. I could be wrong but it seems that way to me.

[Hominid]

Dudeism is a logical, rational religion and if people start using irrational arguments to make their points or argue for a point of view then it's going to be incompatible.

That says it all right there.  And not to take you out of context..........

Now that incompatibility doesn't mean Dudeism is Anti-Theist. It only means that we should mind the gap between them.

Expressing a dislike for hard core mono-theists (AKA bible-bashing people like Icon) doesn't mean my value system excludes the easy-going attitude of dudeism.  I simply dislike their intolerance.  How many times have I iterated that in the last week!

I will, though, state for the record, that I'm willing to tangle and debate with anyone believing in the invisible which has no evidence or proof of its existence.  But that's me.  I'm a refugee of hard core fundamentalist religion, so it's not surprising...

[meekon5]

the beauty of Dudeism is that it doesn't TRULY put any stereotypes on you no matter what your religious views are.

I myself is an ex-atheist, but I've shifted to agnosticism. I think Neil deGrasse Tyson describes perfectly why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

Thanks for this link Bullett00th.

I think he makes the point I was trying to make at the beginning.

And actually I refer to the title of the thread:

Re: Is a dudeist an atheist?

They can be but they can be anything.

To say anything else is to be judgmental before the fact and prescriptive.

And yes forumdude I was being provocative in an attempt to try to get some balance into the discussion.

The true Dudeist way is not to be bothered until someone starts trying to wave their point of view in your face.

That's all I've been saying all along... 

and the rest

So when it does get waved in my face, it does become my business, and will quickly point out their erroneous beliefs with logic and reason.

is opinion

[meekon5]

...I'm a refugee of hard core fundamentalist religion, so it's not surprising...

To be honest I was thinking that was where a lot of this reaction came from.

I think the majority of us are actually agreeing the same point.

I was just trying to make the point that to some of us the atheist shouty bits are as offensive as some of Icons rubbish was.

I don't mind debate but it has to be recognised that some of us have studied the subjects being talked about extensively. I personally have lectured on modern Paganism, and do not take my stance without a great amount of thought.

...but how do we prevent these boring conversations where we all argue about imaginary friends and outdated scripture and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Perhaps we use this method to alert Theists that we think their blathering is rather boring? Could work.

Theists and atheists both.

And actually its 0327hrs here in the UK and I should just go to bed and stop getting uptight about this subject.

[Captain Will]

Dudes, I don't mean to alarm anyone, but I've made a huge realization....

This horse has been dead for weeks!