The Dudeism Forum

All sound nominations above - here's my offering, this week (I don't wanna sound like a stuck record - it's the Catholics, again - but what can you do when they come out with shit like this?): http://www.disinfo.com/2011/05/catholic-church-officially-blames-hippies-for-their-child-abuse-scandals/

Quote from: cakebelly on June 03, 2011, 10:34:00 AM
All sound nominations above - here's my offering, this week (I don't wanna sound like a stuck record - it's the Catholics, again - but what can you do when they come out with shit like this?): http://www.disinfo.com/2011/05/catholic-church-officially-blames-hippies-for-their-child-abuse-scandals/

Jesus!! What's that smell!??

Quote from: cakebelly on June 03, 2011, 10:34:00 AM
All sound nominations above - here's my offering, this week (I don't wanna sound like a stuck record - it's the Catholics, again - but what can you do when they come out with shit like this?): http://www.disinfo.com/2011/05/catholic-church-officially-blames-hippies-for-their-child-abuse-scandals/

This aggression will not stand, man!

............I'll have to look, but doesn't the Catholic church have a long history of abuse scandals of it's own? I seem to remember a problem with priests and little boys.

Yeah, well, I think the only problem in Cakebelly's post is that he uses the term 'the catholics'. That's not the preferred nomenclature here dude! make it "some fascists within the catholic church' or something. There way more good people in the church...

"Yeah, well, I think the only problem in Cakebelly's post is that he uses the term 'the catholics'. That's not the preferred nomenclature here dude! make it "some fascists within the catholic church' or something. There way more good people in the church..."

That's just your opinion - my opinion (on the issue of the systematic rape of children, the covering up of said crimes and the threat of excommunication of the victims if they spoke of it) is  if you still belong to a church that forgives and protects the rapist and punishes the victim then you are not a 'good person' you are a cunt.

Good people do not belong to an organization that is involved in such crimes (it's long bloody history of persecution, homophobia, oppression of women, etc.).  Good people dissent - good people do something about it - good people have drawn a line in the sand. They start again and (at the paltry least) distance themselves from the criminals. There is no excuse, for 'good people' to remain in that church. NONE.

When your rug is pissed on you get a new rug: http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm Scroll down the page to see a list of dissenting Catholic organizations . . they may just be good people.

http://youtu.be/hEn0px0uJZQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcuin

Charlemagne

Alcuin's love of the church and his intellectual curiosity allowed him to be reluctantly persuaded to join Charlemagne's court. He joined an illustrious group of scholars that Charlemagne had gathered around him, the mainsprings of the Carolingian Renaissance: Peter of Pisa, Paulinus of Aquileia, Rado and Abbot Fulrad. Alcuin would later write that "the Lord was calling me to the service of King Charles."

He was welcomed at the Palace School of Charlemagne in Aachen (Urbs Regale) in 782. It had been founded by the king?s ancestors as a place for the education of the royal children (mostly in manners and the ways of the court). However, Charlemagne wanted to include the liberal arts and, most importantly, the study of the religion that he held sacred. From 782-790, Alcuin taught Charlemagne himself, his sons Pepin and Louis, the young men sent to be educated at court and the young clerics attached to the palace chapel. Bringing with him from York his assistants Pyttel, Sigewulf and Joseph, Alcuin revolutionized the educational standards of the Palace School, introducing Charlemagne to the liberal arts and creating a personalised atmosphere of scholarship and learning, to the extent that the institution came to be known as the 'school of Master Albinus'.

In this role as adviser, he tackled the emperor over his policy of forcing pagans to be baptised on pain of death, arguing, "Faith is a free act of the will, not a forced act. We must appeal to the conscience, not compel it by violence. You can force people to be baptised, but you cannot force them to believe." His arguments seem to have prevailed - Charlemagne abolished the death penalty for paganism in 797.[7]

Charlemagne was a master at gathering the best men of every land in his court. He himself became far more than just the king at the center. It seems that he made many of these men his closest friends and counsellors. They referred to him as 'David', a reference to the Biblical king David. Alcuin soon found himself on intimate terms with Charlemagne and the other men at court, to whom he gave nicknames to be used for work and play.[citation needed] Alcuin himself was known as 'Albinus' or 'Flaccus'.

Alcuin?s friendships also extended to the ladies of the court, especially the queen mother and the king's daughters. His relationships with these women never reached the intense level of those of the men around him. Modern commentators,[8] have identified the homo-erotic tone of some of Alcuin's poetry, emphasising the spiritual and idealistic aspects of his love for his friends and his pupils.[9] While at Aachen, his pupils were given pet names, derived from classical allusions (mainly from Virgil's Eclogues).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boswell
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/sykeon-adelpho.html

Quote from: cakebelly on June 04, 2011, 12:38:46 PM
"Yeah, well, I think the only problem in Cakebelly's post is that he uses the term 'the catholics'. That's not the preferred nomenclature here dude! make it "some fascists within the catholic church' or something. There way more good people in the church..."

That's just your opinion - my opinion (on the issue of the systematic rape of children, the covering up of said crimes and the threat of excommunication of the victims if they spoke of it) is  if you still belong to a church that forgives and protects the rapist and punishes the victim then you are not a 'good person' you are a cunt.

Good people do not belong to an organization that is involved in such crimes (it's long bloody history of persecution, homophobia, oppression of women, etc.).  Good people dissent - good people do something about it - good people have drawn a line in the sand. They start again and (at the paltry least) distance themselves from the criminals. There is no excuse, for 'good people' to remain in that church. NONE.

When your rug is pissed on you get a new rug: http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm Scroll down the page to see a list of dissenting Catholic organizations . . they may just be good people.

http://youtu.be/hEn0px0uJZQ

Hey, man, I'm not trying to be a hard-on, because you make a very good point about protesting, but we all have logs in our eyes about that kind of stuff. For example, check out your use of the word "cunt"--very derogatory, violent, anti-woman, etc. We all get used to these kinds of things, and I'm not excluding myself in any way. I say, yeah, organize against oppression, help change the world, but it's not real cool to judge in the process. Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but it sounds to me like you're crossing the line a bit in this way. I think that a lot of times, it's just a matter of people being motivated to step out of their comfort zone.

"There is no excuse, for 'good people' to remain in that church." - Well, by this line of reasoning, all those of us who haven't left the US because of its war-mongering policies and actions are bad people. At least, that's the way I understand what you've said here. I get your anger, and there are a lot of people here who are angry about various fascist acts, and maybe we should do more about this as a group and as individuals. But, I guess I really think there are good reasons why people remain in the Catholic Church, and that they should be understood and honored.

We all partake in whatever injustices are intricately woven into our way of life. I'm not saying this is a good thing. I'm just saying take it easy on all us sinners, man.

The use of the word "cunt", these days, has different connotations depending on where you are in the world. There are a lot of cunts about: tight, loose, evil, peachy-keen, good, dry, stupid, smart, lucky, drippy, scabby, ignorant, 'orrible.  We are all cunts, to some extent, but anyway  my wife says I shouldn't apologize because my cultural experience  differs from the slightly backward American experience (in this regard). It's use here (in the States) may be more an abusive term hurled at women (I'll admit I forgot where I was, so to speak and I was probably deliberately leaning towards the controversial in its usage) so, let me use the term bad person as I continue with the terminology used  in Fuckin' A's post.

Yeah, the Catholic church does not require you to have a  passport (it is not determined by geography, these days, as is the USA); it requires you to believe in certain things (like Papal infallibility, etc). It is an empire of thought and tradition; a system of belief that requires you to judge/denigrate certain of your fellow human beings in a particular manner. In a way, I guess, the  Catholic passport to heaven is a psychic one. So, I'm not sure that your geographical metaphor holds water. In fact, it doesn't. Indian Nationalists burned their ID cards in protest at the British Raj:  protesters against the Vietnam war burned their draft cards; thousands upon thousands of South American  dissenters have been 'disappeared' by American- backed regimes in the name of commerce [edit: and the partners of the 'disapeared' dance the"'Danse Macabre" in protest - they dance a waltz with themselves in public places]: what do Catholics do if they wish to protest the rape of children? Do they burn their cards? No, they leave the psychic-fold and set-up their own Church that addresses what ever issue they feel uncomfortable with. Those who do not protest are bad people and paper Christians. I am unaware of any catholic groups pressing for the arrest of the rapists and the Pope, but there may be. The infallibility issue means, in very real terms, that if the Pope thinks there are no crimes to answer for then the rank and file of believers are required to feel/think in the same way. There is no democratic system in place to remove the Pope that would leave the infallibility issue intact. If you remain a member of a church that requires you accept child rape (and many other inhumane/questionable beliefs) then you are, quite simply, a cunt  - sorry, I mean a bad person. Ignorance, blind faith, traditionalism - what have you - no fuckin' excuse. If you know the kind of shit that is going down but you turn a blind eye then you are a bad person; if questioning the validity of a priest's action takes you out of your "comfort zone" then fuck you, deal with it, evolve: we are talking about the sexual abuse of kids -  if you bury your head in the sand of doctrine you're a bad person and rape continues to be okay. You may wish to "honor" the ignorance, blind faith, indoctrinated states of such people - that's up to you. IMO honoring such twaddle merely perpetuates the crimes and makes you a bad person, too.  There are rules and in this particular case true Christians would not be content until the revered marble and gold halls of the guilty are torn down and the fuckers brought to justice.

The exploitation of humanities need to place something between him/her and the cold, lonely, vastness of the universe  is a problem when that something becomes immune to the rule of law (or at least common decency), when it becomes twisted and corrupt. The need for a psychic buffer zone (if you will) is perfectly understandable, I might even venture that I think it may be a natural condition of our State as human beings. Dudeism, brethren, will help us ease our fears with laughter, the odd oat soda and maybe an occasional row (baby oil optional)  - it may help us see, even though our tongues are usually in our cheeks (sometimes other people's cheeks) that, really, there are rules, there is a line and when you cross it you become part of the problem: you become a fuckin' fascist and you will be treated as one until it is understood that this aggression against the innocents will most certainly not fuckin' stand. Peace, you cunts.
Cuntbelly, somewhere in cunting Pomona.

ps. I appreciate that you (Outer Limit) are not trying to be a hard on; I guess I am coming across as one but then again, surely that is the desired response in this case. There is a line . . isn't there?

@ Cakebelly

To use the Facebook term. If their was a like button here I would have clicked it!

I was brought up as Catholic and soundly rejected there ideals and philosophy before the age of 10. I can't "not be" a Catholic as I was Christened one...and you can't really un-Christen yourself.

One of my priests (Father Gallagher) was a drunken Irish sod who was shagging his housemaid! This was whispered about by all the adults who still worshipped every Sunday but as they were "good Catholics" managed to turn a blind eye in the name of whatever.

Fuck the Catholic Church,  Fuck the Nazi Pope, Fuck the paedophiles. They are Jew and women hating Cunts. And I will not apologise for my use of the word because it describes the unapologetic, murdering fuckheads exactly.

I really do hope that Malachy was correct and that Nazi bastard is the penultimate Pope.

In peace Reverends!!!!!

Cakebelly, I agree with you that there's a line you do not cross in regard to children. But child abuse is everywhere. It's not just in the Catholic church--it's in the schools, in the homes, in the parks, wherever there are perpetrators with access to children. Coverups are everywhere as well, and yes, we should do everything we can to protect children and bring the perps to justice. If you don't see anything good in the Catholic religion or in the followers of it, then that's your opinion, man. I'm just saying that the Catholic Church certainly doesn't have a corner on the child abuse market, and that Catholics who take in easy in regard to activism about this issue are no different from you and me when we're not doing all we could for whatever cause we're very much aware of and believe in. I could get behind tough love on this issue, but what I'm hearing from you seems more along the lines of hate. I could be misinterpreting, but this is my concern, dude.

As far as "cunt," the use of the word to refer to a woman or a woman's anatomy in a derogatory way is still pretty common. Yes, it has plenty of other uses, even in the "backward" USA. You want to use it--that's up to you--but to me, it's part of the whole hating women thing, which I think is alive and well in the US and world-wide.

I have a friend who doesn't like TBL because of the 281 or however many "fucks" in it. I don't have a problem with "fuck." I like the word--it's expressive and it feels good to say it. But I'm very aware that it's a violent expression. The line I draw--for myself--is that I don't like to hear words that refer to a woman or a part of a woman as an insult, and when I do and if it seems like the thing to do, I'll state my opinion. To me, it's like the kids calling things "gay" these days when they mean "stupid." I'm personally not offended when I hear this, but I'm aware that others are, and I'm pretty sure that it's just another way to keep homophobia going.

When "cunt" is used to mean something or someone nasty, I do feel personally offended. I'm a transgender man--I lived as a woman, with women's parts, for 40-odd years. There are female dudes on this board, and while I can't speak for them or, for that matter, any of the male or other-gendered dudes here, I personally don't think it's a real welcoming part of the language. I'm not trying to protect anyone, and am very aware that no one but me may feel offended by the word or think it has anything to do with misogyny. I'm just pointing out that I don't think it's cool and why I feel that way. Also, just to be clear, I never asked you for an apology, nor do I require one. I just wanted you to hear my points.

I went to a Catholic High School, even though I wasn't Catholic.

The Principal was a Marist Brother. He was a really nice guy, and he was very popular.

Up until my Senior year where he molested a 15 yr old boy on Camp.

It was fucked up in more ways that one. I know people shouldn't let them affect you, but it kinda makes me ..... well I have no interest in returning for the School Reunion. I'm not exactly proud to have gone there.

12 years of education for something like that to happen.

Of course, too many people can brush it aside merrily.

@ Dave: Shit, Dude, that's fuckin' tough, man. If I may ask, what happened to the molester: arrested, de-frocked or quietly moved somewhere else? To have one's trust broken in such a fashion is, I imagine, a catastrophic blow - that will echo throughout one's life. Was the victim given all the help possible? If replying to this brings back memories you'd rather not air that's okay, man. I would (although I hesitate to offer any advice, would seem rather arrogant of me) say that it sounds as if you had a decent enough time there (up until the incident) and that you got yourself a good education. It may all feel tainted and useless but maybe the sands of time will blow some of the hurt and betrayal away long enough for you to spy a long lost moment of happiness or joy: gleaming away, in the hope that you'll pick it up and treasure it again . . maybe, you know. Thanks for sharing, Dude, abide.

(Will respond to the rest later on today or tomorrow - my girls are currently making a play date for the park on the phone).  

When we retrieved our luggage yesterday, we saw that the Mexican TSA (don't know what it's actually called) had ripped the zipper pulls off of my wife's bag, and broke both zippers.  She had a lock on, but it was one of the approved locks that all airports have the universal keys for. 

I wouldn't have even cared if they cut the lock off for some reason, but they just snapped the zippers instead to get a look inside.

The title of this thread is "fuckin' fascists (of the week)" - I put up a link to a story (that caught my eye) about the Catholic Church throwing stones at the counter-culture movement of the 60's - 70's (and the 'sexual revolution') and citing the flowering of the flower people as the cause in the "spike" of child rape within the church. I thought it might be of interest to Dudeists/hippies. Here's a small part of it:

The study, undertaken by John Jay College of Criminal Justice (PDF) at the request of America?s Catholic bishops, links the spike in child abuse by priests in the 1960s and 70s to the importance given to young people and popular culture along with the emergence of the feminist movement, a singles culture and a growing acceptance of homosexuality. It also cites crime, drugs, an increase in premarital sexual behavior and divorce.

You see, the gist of the article is that the Catholic Church is looking for answers outside their walls - looking to lay blame elsewhere instead of just doing the Christian (and lawful) thing of handing over the guilty. Now, it can look for answers in society and lay some kind of trip on the rest of us as long as they (again) hand over the guilty - this would, of course, include the Pope. My responses all relate, funnily enough, to the Catholic Church - that is what the article is about. I am not going to go over the same ground (as far as I can see it is self-evident: if you are a Roman Catholic then you believe in Papal infallibility then you are admitting that child-raping priests are not guilty of a crime; therefore you are a paracunt - and if not a believer in child abuse then a protector of rapists), the crux of the matter is pederast priests -  I just hope you see how that works.

The larger issue for you may be the use of the word "cunt"  - it seems to be, from your responses - while it's something of a bummer that you choose to be upset by that I choose not to be. I choose the larger issue. Now I don't care if you carry your vagina/penis in a purse, sport it on your forehead or even call yourself a trans-human - who gives a fuck, this is the Dudeist Forum - we try to be all inclusive (save for pederasts and their supporters). Maybe you think your gender re-alignment affords you a deeper  insight into the hurtful nature of the word - you could be right. The word is hurtful, it is something of a shocker - that can sometimes be the nature of dissent.

As stated, the issue for me is that the guilty, in this matter,  are called to account. I understand that the late pope was a pederast protector, too ( well, let's face it - they all have been); they are in the process of making him a Saint  (was the finding and killing of Bin  Laden his first 'miracle' or second?), imagine that: Saint of Pederasts(?) What message here? Better to protect the fabric of the church than the body of a child. Never underestimate the power of structured religion over the minds of the superstitious.

The Catholic Church has a (approx) membership of 1 billion, 150+ million (that's a pretty big chunk of humanity); all of whom, presumably believe in Papal infallibility (otherwise they would belong to a dissident Catholic movement, would they not?).  That's a sixth (or so) of the world's population that have been indoctrinated (you don't have to be a believer, I guess - you just have to stay a member to be a paracunt) into the belief that priests who rape are not guilty of committing a crime. That very fact alone should be enough to bring the whole church down - but it ain't enough ( at least the atheists attempted to arrest the Pope - where were all the Christians?) - who knows what is(?) Never underestimate the power of structured religion over the minds of the superstitious.

Yeah, so who knows what it will take but here's one avenue of exploration: dissent. These responses are part of my dissent (yes, I deliberately used controversial language); I will use whatever language I choose in my dissent: paracunt, bad person, pederast sympathisers - what have you - to make it clear that, until they hand over the rapists and their protectors they are beneath my contempt. That's my issue, my dissent.

I look forward to the day when the Catholic church becomes all- inclusive. I keenly await the day they hand over the guilty, apologize and give their wealth to the poor. I look forward to the day when they agree that Papal infallibility is nonsense - heck, I look forward to the day that they become Christian.

As to me judging others, well - a pederast is a pederast in a club that says it's okay so forgive me, I'll call "over the line" on that one and if you are a still member of that club then you are guilty, too. As to me being "over the line" - well, what can I say: I was uncomfortable on your side of the line. As to me being a hater - phew! that really does sound exhausting. You may be right, though - tune in to the next episode when I tear the flowers (especially those fuckin' holier than thou Lillies) a new arse-hole.