The Dudeism Forum

It is based on math and logic.  Neither of those are empirical.  The whole issue of dark matter and the expansion of the universe are only answerable by mathematical speculation, and not the good kind.  Physicists don't really like the "oh well, there must be all this dark matter we can't detect" answer.  And like religion, it fills an observed gap.  It may be vastly more logical, but it is still in function mathematical speculation.  At quantum levels, math starts to break down and you are back to an obtuse form of empirical speculation.

In fact this conversation has shown me one thing - you are not interested in synthesis, you are interested in expounding why you hate religion and not in an actual discussion.  Looking through your posts proves that, and that is empirically proven.  I can get enough of that in high school, and so I am, as they say, out.

Good day, sir.

Quote from: DudePatrick on October 30, 2013, 09:38:02 AM
It is based on math and logic.  Neither of those are empirical.  The whole issue of dark matter and the expansion of the universe are only answerable by mathematical speculation, and not the good kind.  Physicists don't really like the "oh well, there must be all this dark matter we can't detect" answer.  And like religion, it fills an observed gap.  It may be vastly more logical, but it is still in function mathematical speculation.  At quantum levels, math starts to break down and you are back to an obtuse form of empirical speculation.

In fact this conversation has shown me one thing - you are not interested in synthesis, you are interested in expounding why you hate religion and not in an actual discussion.  Looking through your posts proves that, and that is empirically proven.  I can get enough of that in high school, and so I am, as they say, out.

Good day, sir.

I think what BikerDude is trying say is (and please correct me if I totally misinterpreted BikerDude) that these kinds of discussions, when they go on for too long, become sort of... maybe not pointless, but rather futile in their efforts.

The reason being there is no way to know whether these "truths" (in this case, Christianity) are, in fact, true. There's also no way to prove them wrong because, as we all know, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

I think this discussion has become more of a criticism on this type of discussion as opposed to religion. So I hope you're not offended DudePatrick. Your opinion is respected.

Quotethe absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

A unique way to put it.  Yet again, I'll take it one step further by stating that extraordinary claims (of religion) require extraordinary evidence.

BD is taking it even one more step further and being quite pragmatic, by stating that it's the effect(s) of believing in sky people that we should worry about, not its roots.  It permeates society, politics, and ultimately our behaviour towards each other, both as individuals, but more importantly, countries.  Religion is the basis for most strife and contention, just look at 9-11.

Good way to put it, BrotherShamus.

In the end of the day these arguments do become futile. It's a touchy topic, but the farther we go, the harder it becomes to avoid. People start questioning what they are told instead of believeing it from the get-go.

I'm not saying everyone will become an atheist, but people who come to a certain religion by their own choice and conclusions made based on certain knowledge will be both less fanatical and less aggressive about the subject.

I only started the topic because I have had a pet theory that Christianity was used by the Romans to control Europe after the "Roman" empire declined (witness the fact that the Vatican is on the site of Nero's palace).

As usual (herding cats with an electric cattle prod) the conversation seems to have diverged into speculations about the very nature of reality and whether it's an absolute or not.

here i think we may just have to accept that there are some amongst us that have a very firmly held belief in one point of view or another.

I much like some others here come to the group with a Taoist Buddhist background, I also branch into Paganism (this would take quite a bit of explaining).

I have at moments of meditation experienced the drawing back of the veil (however you wish to call it) and reached a point of relative understanding, in a spiritual sense.

I then decided rather than getting me away to a monastery, to remain in the "real" world.

For those of you that are materialists (of which I am if you look at the contents of my house), this is all there is and that's it.

It is physical, measurable, quantifiable.

I am a poet, a philosopher, and and artist, for a living I work in ICT, I attempt to be the Renaissance Man that all of us would like to be.

You would be surprised how superstitious ICT people can be. like not ever saying anything is
"easy" or will "just" take a couple of minutes, i could go on with examples.

Also why do men name their cars/bikes if all they are is metal and wood and fabric?

There will always come a point in this type of discussion (what this thread has become) where the "realists" and the "non-realists" just end up banging their heads against each others to no avail.

To end this I have always said, the logical, realist, scientist, looks at a rainbow and see quite pretty diffraction of sunlight through water. The spiritualist, non-realist, see's Bifrost (the bridge between Asgard and Midgard), Jehovah's promise not to do that again (the flood), or the potential to go and try and find a pot of gold.

Delusional I may be, but too often have I had conversations with Gods, and Daemons, Devils and Angels, Spirits and Sprites. No matter how hard you shout at me I am wrong, no matter how hard you try to beat it into me that I am confused, reality continues to morph and change around me, and only continues to prove my point of view to me.

I now wish to draw a line before it ends in blows (or people spitting the dummy and leaving the forum under a cloud) and say we can only agree to disagree.

If it makes you happy all of this is real, on the other hand if it makes you happy all of this is not real.

As always this is all only IMHDO.

Lets get a lane and a beer.

Well said, M5 dude!

 

Ah, fuck it! 

Looks like we need to up the spam security...