The Dudeism Forum

So as a dude i found solace in the dude, the idea of the dude, and what it meant to be a dude. The only problem being, i'm already a christian.
    So, how does one be a part of the latter-day dudeist church without abandoning ones other faith? And being a Reverend of the dude none the less. For me i was never a hard core hell-fire and brimstone kind of guy, and never really having and specific sect of Christianity and never really belonged to a certain church, so i decide to love thy neighbor( or at  least attempt to)  not judge others, and try to do my best to live the way the big man upstairs would want me to. However this left a bit of a void and i had a bit of an anger problem (being a major Walter at times) on day i found dudeism, since then iv learned to follow the way of the dude and just, chilllll.
     This left me wondering, am i still a christian if i follow the way of the dude? I say so, i like to view dudeism as a way of life, a guide to help nudge me to the right path on my road of life. So what do you think? Any dudes out there with other religions besides dudeism who feel the same way? Have you been shunned by your church or family? Do you think that my views on dudeism are wrong or differ from yours?

There will be many professed Christians who will say you can't be both, and there will be some Dudeists who say you can't be both, but if both philosophies help to tie your spiritual room together so to speak and you don't feel compelled to abandon the former for the latter, then, just abide to the best of your ability, but don't be afraid to explore all the new shit to keep your mind limber.

My own two cents on the whole dern human comedy: You can be or believe whatever you want as long as it's not directly hurting others---hurting mind you, not just offending, everything you do or don't do will offend somebody on this planet, so can't be worried about that shit.

If you can make a few good friends, find something that brings you inner peace (whether its' bowling, fly-fishing, or just meditating) and make enough change to feed the monkey, then you got it made.

I think you're perceiving a dichotomy where Stephen Jay Gould instead recognized non-overlapping magisteria. Now, he technically meant religion wasn't compatible with (or reducible to) science in a categorical sense. Part of the problem is most religions pretend to historical and/or prophesied truths, exposing them to the scientific realm. Dudeism, at least as I see it, makes no such pretensions. I mean, we presume TBL was actually a movie but that's easily enough provable. We can elaborate on the distinction but it seems rather evident.

If you wanna be a christian, okay. Believe what you want. But until you prove those beliefs are true don't: (1) presuppose others hold and/or should hold those beliefs; (2) impose those beliefs on others (whether directly or through government); or (3) expect others to respect those beliefs. Not trying to be a dick here, or turn this into a "jesus freaks are teh devil" thing, but the burden of proof really is on those espousing the point. Christopher Hitchens wisely noted "that which can be asserted without evidence can be denied without evidence."

So, be a christian, be a dudeist, be a polygamist, be a klingon, or be a christian. But you don't get special snowflake points or any easy outs by claiming membership in any of these organizations. All the work remains to be done. Life is hard. It's full of problems. You have moral and ethical obligations to others. Nothing in a 2,000 year old book or a movie made in 1998 has the answers.

Christian, Dudeist, Jew, Buddhist, Hinduist, Taoist, Pagan, Shintoist, Theist, Atheist, Agnostic, Whateverist.  We humans love to hang labels on things so we can classify, organize, and separate them.  So I think the real question is, how important is it to you that you be labeled as a Christian?  Or as a Dudeist?  Or as anything?

I believe wisdom is wisdom regardless of whether the source is a religious text, a philosopher, a scientist, or something scrawled on a cocktail napkin.  If it resonates with you and has a positive influence on your life, use it.  That's one of the things that attracted me to Dudeism--it's more accepting than any other "religion" I've encountered.  Yes, there is a bit of a backlash against the so-called "Western" religions (Christianity, in particular) among some Dudeists; we have our disagreements just like any other group.  But Dudeism is still a work-in-progress, and I believe those issues will sort themselves out eventually.

I was raised in an average, middle-class, suburban Christian environment.  Mom was Catholic and Dad was Lutheran, but neither of them were the Bible-thumping "hell-fire and brimstone" types.  I'm pretty sure I was baptized at some point, and was "confirmed" in the Lutheran church (their equivalent of Catholic Catechism).  But I think most children tend to accept the things their parents teach them without giving them much thought, and I was no different.  Then I reached what George Carlin called "the age of reason".  Around that time the "Born Again" Christian sect was becoming popular and some of my friends started going to church regularly, so I thought I'd give it a try.  It was the first time I'd actually bothered to "examine" Christianity, and I quickly realized much of what that particular church taught didn't sit well with me because it was all "fear based", i.e. "Do this or you'll spend eternity burning in Hell."  It wasn't much more than a gut feeling, and not enough to discount everything they were teaching, but it was enough to make me realize it wasn't for me.  So I exited that scene, retaining the "good" and discarding the "bad".  And then I met the woman who would become my wife, a full-blooded Italian who was born and raised in Chicago and steeped in Catholicism.  If you live in the U.S., sometimes it seems you just can't get away from some form of Christianity.    Fortunately, her family accepted the fact that I wasn't Catholic and had no intentions of becoming one.  Without having any real sort of dialogue, we've all simply agreed to disagree on the subject of religion.

I apologize for rambling there.  I started out thinking it would come back around to the main topic, but it kinda' got away from me.

Over the years I've come to consider myself an agnostic simply because I haven't seen enough evidence to confirm or refute the existence of a God or Gods.  I'd like to believe there is some form of supreme intelligence behind the universe and all it contains, but I'm pretty sure I'm not yet qualified to make that determination with any conviction.  At my age (55) I simply want to live and enjoy my life, and cause the least amount of collateral damage in the process.  Dudeism seems to align with that goal.  Keep the good, eliminate or minimize the bad, and don't worry about how others perceive or label you because you don't have any real control over that anyway.

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 14, 2016, 10:30:39 PM
I apologize for rambling there.  I started out thinking it would come back around to the main topic, but it kinda' got away from me.

I appreciate the sentiment, Al, but no need for an apology from where I sit. It's always interesting to hear the path one took through the wilderness. This is, at least, tangential to the original post and, if one parses thing more closely, probably right on point.

Inhale the good shit, Exhale the bullshit.

Yes, I think you can be both if you use what is good about being a Christian (do unto others, be a good Samaritan, judge not etc).

Generally,  my thoughts echo what's above.

Honestly I wouldn't worry about the label too much.  If Westboro Baptist can call themselves christian while they live completely opposite to everything Christ ever commanded... you can call yourself Christian while takin er easy and being a dude.  I mean Jesus was like the ultimate dude, the only time he ever drew a line in the sand was to call out people's bullshit and hypocrisy.  The rest of the time he was teaching about how riches won't bring salvation, the meek will inherit the earth, keep the promises you make, don't covet or steal other people's stuff or vaginas (or johnsons?), love your neighbor (including people like Samaritans that the square community didn't give a shit about), judge not unless you want to be judged, deal with the log in your own eye before pulling out your piece for the speck of dust in your neighbor's eye, fuckin a man why not?  A lot of people don't realize this too but his idea of spreading the gospel was never as frantic or authoritarian as the church can get nowadays, it was supposed to be something you did just by not conforming to the world but projecting all the good stuff that people really need.  Not giving into a spirit of fear or worrying about tomorrow.  These are at least an ethos and not a bad one at that.

I personally don't label myself christian anymore just because I think christianity is almost all cultural nowadays and that goes back all the way to emperor constantine (who decided to use christianity as a political move but had to change certain things about conquering other nations and building wealth... things Jesus did not really dig or support.)  Jesus seems to have almost nothing to do with it except as a symbol.  I can dig the idea of a god made flesh doing what needs to be done for all us sinners though, and who wouldn't even fight the roman nihilists to save his own ass, just abided the torture and 3 days later said "fuck it" to death itself.  He's like a super-dude!  Just whatever you decide to believe, do it because YOU believe it, not because some gold-brickin preacher or even some dude said it's the ultimate truth.  The truth can never be debunked and so just keep a limber mind about all of it and all the shit you need to know will come to light.

Quote from: jgiffin on August 14, 2016, 11:52:52 PM

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 14, 2016, 10:30:39 PM
I apologize for rambling there.  I started out thinking it would come back around to the main topic, but it kinda' got away from me.

I appreciate the sentiment, Al, but no need for an apology from where I sit. It's always interesting to hear the path one took through the wilderness. This is, at least, tangential to the original post and, if one parses thing more closely, probably right on point.

Thankee.  I suppose it was my long-winded way of saying I've been through something similar to what you appear to be experiencing, except that I ultimately decided I didn't want to be labeled as a Christian.  Of course, Dudeism didn't exist when I made that choice, but I really don't see much of a conflict between Dudeism and Christianity (though I'm sure some Christians would disagree).  As thevideoartist wrote so eloquently above, both faiths are ultimately about doing the right things and being a better person, so if you can find a balance between the two while staying true to yourself I'd say it's all good.

I would like to make a distinction between "Christians", and "Followers of Christ"

From my personal observations, many Christians are very bigoted and hateful... Always oppressing homosexuals because their bible says god hates fags (it actually calls for the followers to murder homosexuals, witches, unruly children, anyone from another religion, etc)... Christians love telling people they will go to hell, etc... very un-Christ-like

On the other hand, that Jesus Dude, was a mellow guy... he didn't tell anyone they would go to hell... he didn't hate fags... he loved everyone, regardless of what they are, were, had done, etc

Jesus spent all his time and money trying to help people... Christians, don't... churches don't help anyone but members of the church... there is no charity there... it's just a club helping each other, not helping "the other"

I feel like Jesus was one hella dude, but "Christians" not so much

Then you add in all the magic and ritual and hatred of science (evolution)... it's very un-dude

I'd say that anyone who tries to emulate the Jesus Dude, is a dude... but typical Christians do not... in general, Christians are only Christians for the reward at the end of the tunnel... they prefer the hatred and bigotry of the old testament crap, totally un-dude

For me it's all about your attitude and actions... most "Christians" act very un-dude, so I would say the labels are mutually exclusive

Quote from: The Dude Shepherd on September 23, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
On the other hand, that Jesus Dude, was a mellow guy... he didn't tell anyone they would go to hell...

Actually the whole truth is he did say certain people would go to hell or at least denied heaven.

The wealthy:
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

The hypocrites:
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"

The empty religious (at the time of the jewish faith):
"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

and the intentionally, unrepentantly evil on numerous occasions... namely this one:
"The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

(Ironic that the above list describes a fair amount of christian leaders especially in the United States.)

Jesus however also refused to allow a woman caught in adultery to be stoned to death, he healed sinners and lepers and the accursed, he seems to define sin as a thing that comes from in your heart and your intentions to others rather than explicit actions themselves.  There are even old testament heroes before his time that were "blessed" by god that had histories of murder, incest, adultery, robbery, and all kinds of unsavory things.  I think the key is how he summed up all the old testament law in what we now call the golden rule:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

So basically... don't be an assheart... treat people as you'd like to be treated... all the other old testament rules that people use to justify hate on certain races or sexual orientations or really anyone on the planet... if they aren't doing unto others the way they'd like to have done to them... they're missing the point of the rules.

I've read before too that a lot of old testament laws were made obsolete after christ because they were written in a time period when human beings could've very easily face extinction... so homosexuality was undermining the procreation necessary to preserve the species, adultery or coming into contact with menstruating women or other "unclean" folks could lead to communicable illnesses that no one of the time really understood and could be eliminated through monogamy, eating pork and shellfish and other non-kosher foods carried higher risks for disease too, notice how most of them when undercooked have to be served with a food-poisoning disclaimer even today.  Other stuff seems to have been mostly ritual to help Israel develop it's own ancient identity amongst the other nations of the time... or who knows, maybe some of that stuff was added by the patriarchs of the time and god never even said it.

I say if you want to keep believing in christ, believe in him, I don't think I really believe in his divinity anymore myself... but I'm open to be convinced still and I dig his style, plus I sympathize with your struggle as it was my own at one point.  These are things to consider when reconciling undeniably literal words about hell and "gnashing of teeth" in the "darkness" with the empathetic and tolerant nature of Dudeism and the vast majority of Jesus's teaching career.

I think you're gonna find too that a lot of us kinda have a bone to pick with "americhristianity" which is why we're here in the first place: a more limber-minded ethos.

Absolutely... no problem with living a Dude-like Christ-like walk at all...

Having a belief or non-belief does not require you to not be able to abide others decisions in their own paths... Just at times restricts how tight you might become with them (particularly if they can in no way abide you).

Jesus can be the why and the who... Dudeism can be the outward expression of the how...

Jesus is claimed by Dudeism to be an influence... an early proto-dude...

To quote an early post I made a while back

QuoteA practicing Dudeist is being a better 'Christian' than any that claim that title and don't live in the real spirit of (IMO) the "original, uncompromised first draft" of what the Dude Jesus put out... But that's just my opinion maybe. I am for the Dudeification of all men as they see the merits of the Dudeist way in their own unique path.

I keep the theistic stuff out of my Dudeist contributions and activities here... but plan on sharing the full Christian perspective on walking with Christ as a Dude elsewhere for those who care to explore it. There is a lot of freedom in both, in spite of what others have chosen to insert into their "Christianity". They just have missed the point somewhere...

QuoteJudging 'world views' on their degree of harm... sounds exhausting compared to spreading the word on Dudeism and its degree of making the world a better place... no matter what your supplemental 'world view' happens to be.

I suppose I'm a mythicist when it comes to Jesus... I'm not convinced the man existed at all... at least half, if not all of the story can be found in writings which predate the gospels

I have read the bible, and his story is the only good part in the entire thing... The old testament is full of atrocious acts... genocide after genocide, commanded by "god"... The bible is pro-slavery, homophobic, and contains records of the murders of millions of innocent people

Revelation would make a good movie... lots of dragons and shit in there... whoever wrote Revelation was tripping on some good shrooms (aka, mana from heaven)

Jesus was known for sticking up for anyone whose rug was micturated upon... he's really the only decent role model in the entire bible

If anyone is curious and hasn't read the darned thing, I'd recommend the version by Thomas Jefferson (he's a good man, and thouruh)... "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth"... it's a cut-and-paste job, but it's a lot more realistic without all the magic and nonsense in there

https://books.google.com/books?id=AmAJAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

I dig the Jesus message, but you really gotta take it with a grain of salt... The story provides a good example of how a dude should carry himself, if you ignore all the magic and preachy stuff (ancient writings are notoriously full of magic and fantasy just like the bible)

...

Be unlimited. Believe in as many things as you like. Go with the flow~~~