The Dudeism Forum

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger.  If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth.  And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.

I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.

Quote from: jgiffin on August 26, 2014, 09:26:59 PM

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger.  If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth.  And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.

I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.

+1 dude.

That, and some mindfulness training goes a FUCK of a long way in getting out of your head.  Gotta find what works for you; the point is to keep looking.  Oh, and beer helps...   ;-)

Quote from: jgiffin on August 26, 2014, 09:26:59 PM

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger.  If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth.  And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.

I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.

It's important to make that distinction.  It's normal for most people to experience depression on occasion for one reason or another--the loss of a loved one, inability to find a good job, learning their significant other has been unfaithful, severe illness or injury, and so on.  But severe/clinical depression is an entirely different animal, and I believe that's why people who have experienced that normal short-term depression have such difficulty understanding just how debilitating severe/clinical depression can be.  "I've been depressed before and I got over it.  Why can't he/she?"  They don't (or can't) understand that a severely/clinically depressed person usually has no control over the way they're feeling (especially is the root cause it biological--a chemical imbalance or dysfunction of the dopamine delivery/receptor system in the brain).

I'm very pleased you were able to identify the "problem(s)" in your life and took action to correct the situation; it's not always easy to do that.  As for "still working on it", we're all still working on it; life is a constant work in progress.

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 27, 2014, 03:06:09 AM
As for "still working on it", we're all still working on it; life is a constant work in progress.

Amen, brother Al, amen.

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
Anyway, I'm ramblin' again.  My point is that there are a number of biological and/or psychological causes of severe/clinical depression, and what "cures" one person won't necessarily work for another.  What's important is that someone who is suffering from severe/clinical depression takes action to find out which cure will work for them.  It's far from easy, and there's usually a great deal of time consuming trial-and-error involved, but it can be done.

this is pretty accurate. and rambling you're not, everyone has their own way of dealing with depression and it's always complicated. Everyone's crazy in their own little way.
having tried a psychadelic drug once during a depression (seriously not a good idea) I had a trip deep into the thoughts that haunt me when depressed. It sucked big time, felt like I'm in purgatory, which I don't even believe in, torturing myself psychologically with a sea of doubts and regrets. but you go so deep that eventually you reach the root of each of these thoughts, and once you emerge back with an understanding of their source, it's easier to deal with them once you can analyze them. don't take this as a message 'psychadelics will help you with your depression' - I repeat, it's not a good idea. what is a good idea is trying to analyze them, be it alone, with a friend or with a psychologist. either way these things shouldn't be left hanging.


P.S. And I don't think it's a feeling that comes over the inner Dude. It coexists with the inner Dude.
I think the Dude is often mistaken for a character who is so light hearted because he doesn't truly care about anything. That's why they put a nihilist in the movie methinks, to show the difference. The Dude experiences the full spectrum of emotions: serenity, joy, sadness, anger, fear, apathy - you name it. To me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.

QuoteTo me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.

Insightful Bullett dude...  well said.

Quote from: Bullett00th on August 29, 2014, 06:12:25 AMthis is pretty accurate. and rambling you're not, everyone has their own way of dealing with depression and it's always complicated. Everyone's crazy in their own little way.
having tried a psychadelic drug once during a depression (seriously not a good idea) I had a trip deep into the thoughts that haunt me when depressed. It sucked big time, felt like I'm in purgatory, which I don't even believe in, torturing myself psychologically with a sea of doubts and regrets. but you go so deep that eventually you reach the root of each of these thoughts, and once you emerge back with an understanding of their source, it's easier to deal with them once you can analyze them. don't take this as a message 'psychadelics will help you with your depression' - I repeat, it's not a good idea. what is a good idea is trying to analyze them, be it alone, with a friend or with a psychologist. either way these things shouldn't be left hanging...

A LOT of people who suffer from serious/clinical depression try to self-medicate with various substances in an attempt to make themselves feel better.  Unfortunately, when that doesn't work the depression usually worsens and many are left with an addiction on top of their depression.  In fact, long-term cocaine use, for example, can de-sensitize the dopamine delivery/receptor system in the human brain (commonly known as "building up a tolerance") and make matters even worse.

That said, it sounds as though you turned a "bad" trip into a positive by "facing your demons" and using that experience to examine them to determine why and how they were affecting you.  Like you, I can't say I'd recommend your method for everyone, but the results speak for themselves.  Well done!

Quote from: Bullett00th on August 29, 2014, 06:12:25 AM...P.S. And I don't think it's a feeling that comes over the inner Dude. It coexists with the inner Dude.
I think the Dude is often mistaken for a character who is so light hearted because he doesn't truly care about anything. That's why they put a nihilist in the movie methinks, to show the difference. The Dude experiences the full spectrum of emotions: serenity, joy, sadness, anger, fear, apathy - you name it. To me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.

I concur with your assessment of the Dude.  It's not that he doesn't care, but once he's dealt with a negative occurrence he doesn't dwell on it or allow it to affect him in an adverse way.  It's over and done with, and he returns to his pursuit of whatever makes him happy (or at least content).

But in my experience severe/clinical depression doesn't work that way.  As I wrote above, it alters the way you think and changes your perceptions (especially if the cause(s) is/are biological).  Yes, you want to feel better or happier, but quite often you don't know why you're depressed so you don't know how to return to feeling happy (and if the cause is biological, you're physically unable to).  And if the depression lasts long enough (I've had it last for as long as a few months) you sort of forget what it's like to feel happy, so it diminishes your motivation to try--you lose sight of that goal and it becomes less important as more time passes.  And it can make you lose sight of all of your goals because you don't see the point in pursuing them if nothing you do gives you pleasure (i.e., the "it's all pointless" perspective).

But, again, I can only speak from my personal experience.  Although there are similarities, from what little I know everyone's experience with severe/clinical depression is somewhat different because we are all different, so I don't want to make it sound as though I believe I'm an expert in any way and/or that only my opinions and perspectives on the issue matter.  But I do think it's important to discuss it openly and to share our experiences as we're doing here--at the very least, it can help people with severe/clinical depression to realize they're not alone.

Quote from: jgiffin on August 26, 2014, 09:26:59 PM

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger.  If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth.  And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.

I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.

The quote about being trapped in that monotonous routine hit me hard as that's how I feel currently, that and other shit which is just piling on, I was diagnosed with moderate depression a few years back, not sure if the meds made it better or the changes I made did it but with that in mind I get dragged down in the dumps quite easily. To cut to the chase, what you said jgiffin is what I needed to hear I think, so thanks dude, it makes sense now, I feel I can change shit.

Quote from: Hominid on August 29, 2014, 08:49:32 AM

QuoteTo me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.

Insightful Bullett dude...  well said.

Cheers dude, glad to share the thought!

Quote from: Reverend Al on August 29, 2014, 08:20:11 PM
I concur with your assessment of the Dude.  It's not that he doesn't care, but once he's dealt with a negative occurrence he doesn't dwell on it or allow it to affect him in an adverse way.  It's over and done with, and he returns to his pursuit of whatever makes him happy (or at least content).

But in my experience severe/clinical depression doesn't work that way.  As I wrote above, it alters the way you think and changes your perceptions (especially if the cause(s) is/are biological).  Yes, you want to feel better or happier, but quite often you don't know why you're depressed so you don't know how to return to feeling happy (and if the cause is biological, you're physically unable to).  And if the depression lasts long enough (I've had it last for as long as a few months) you sort of forget what it's like to feel happy, so it diminishes your motivation to try--you lose sight of that goal and it becomes less important as more time passes.  And it can make you lose sight of all of your goals because you don't see the point in pursuing them if nothing you do gives you pleasure (i.e., the "it's all pointless" perspective).

But, again, I can only speak from my personal experience.  Although there are similarities, from what little I know everyone's experience with severe/clinical depression is somewhat different because we are all different, so I don't want to make it sound as though I believe I'm an expert in any way and/or that only my opinions and perspectives on the issue matter.  But I do think it's important to discuss it openly and to share our experiences as we're doing here--at the very least, it can help people with severe/clinical depression to realize they're not alone.

hm, it's true that depression is different for everyone, but I think it's quite a universal solution to try to dig out the reason of that depression. like you said, 'face your demons', which is surely easier said than done, especially considering the fact that most of them hide in your subconsciousness.
in this case the general 'quest for happiness' becomes sort of irrelevant. It's like being ill and trying to get better just by blowing your nose - sure you'll be able to breathe freely for a few minutes but the source of the illness is still there.

There's another view on depression which helps me turn away from it: depression is MOSTLY a first world problem really. Generally people who get depressed are the ones who have most of the human's primary needs fulfilled. And find it hard to cope with no new goal or artificial goals, while maintaining their current level of life becomes more of a chore every passing day.
As always, try to find joy in the little things. There's nothing grand or overly entertaining in listening to a recording of a bowling game while lying on the rug, but if you learn to truly enjoy it (or whichever small activity brings a smile on your face), it becomes your small shelter from all the 'external' crap. Until somebody punches you in the face and takes the rug away, that is

I think one of the scariest aspects of depression at least for myself. Is that you actually can become desensitized to it in that you don't even realize the way you feel is not normal your not supposed to feel like that all the time. One of my most difficult therapy sessions was working through to realize how long I had been suffering depression I didn't remember what it was like to feel truly happy. I had brief moments a week or two here and there but never long term. I just kept pushing on figuring this is life until I finally crash hard enough that people around me realized how bad it was and I was forced to get help. Depression is a tough demon to beat and there is no quick end to it and not usually one reason for it.

Quote from: Bullett00th on September 01, 2014, 06:16:40 AMhm, it's true that depression is different for everyone, but I think it's quite a universal solution to try to dig out the reason of that depression. like you said, 'face your demons', which is surely easier said than done, especially considering the fact that most of them hide in your subconsciousness.
in this case the general 'quest for happiness' becomes sort of irrelevant. It's like being ill and trying to get better just by blowing your nose - sure you'll be able to breathe freely for a few minutes but the source of the illness is still there...

I agree.  And I believe a lot of doctors prescribe meds as a "cure" without actually determining the root cause of the patient's depression, and that's why those meds don't work for some people.  It's like putting a bandage over a bullet wound without removing the bullet and repairing the damage it caused first--the superficial wound might heal, but the cause of that wound is still going to be there and will likely cause other problems deep down.

Sadly, for whatever reason(s) most people with severe/clinical depression (or almost any other "mental" disorder) don't seek the help they need (myself included) so neither the root cause nor the symptoms get treated.  As I wrote earlier in this thread, I was in my mid-30s before the right person entered my life and helped me; before that, it never even occurred to me to seek help.  Thinking back on it, I suppose I considered it to be no different than being born blind, or deaf, or any other non-life-threatening ailment--it was just a part of me that I accepted and dealt with.  I mean, everyone has shit they have to deal with in their lives, right?  Why would I think I was different from anyone else?   

Quote from: Bullett00th on September 01, 2014, 06:16:40 AM...There's another view on depression which helps me turn away from it: depression is MOSTLY a first world problem really. Generally people who get depressed are the ones who have most of the human's primary needs fulfilled. And find it hard to cope with no new goal or artificial goals, while maintaining their current level of life becomes more of a chore every passing day...

That's interesting, and something I hadn't considered.  I suppose in that regard there's also the "keeping up with the Joneses" angle to consider:  "Why am I struggling so hard just to make ends meet while my neighbors have better jobs and nicer houses and nicer cars and nicer clothes and nicer (fill-in-the-blank)?"  Many of us were raised with that bullshit "American Dream" carrot dangled in front of us, and we're often made to feel like a failure if we don't find a way to achieve those goals.  Thank you for the enlightenment!

Quote from: Bullett00th on September 01, 2014, 06:16:40 AM...As always, try to find joy in the little things. There's nothing grand or overly entertaining in listening to a recording of a bowling game while lying on the rug, but if you learn to truly enjoy it (or whichever small activity brings a smile on your face), it becomes your small shelter from all the 'external' crap. Until somebody punches you in the face and takes the rug away, that is

I've come to this realization myself as I've gotten older.  The more we learn to appreciate the "little" things in life, the more we realize the "rat race" is a lie and a false goal.  Life is far more enjoyable when you're not killing yourself trying to live it.

Quote from: The_Sleevez on September 01, 2014, 12:27:40 PMI think one of the scariest aspects of depression at least for myself. Is that you actually can become desensitized to it in that you don't even realize the way you feel is not normal your not supposed to feel like that all the time. One of my most difficult therapy sessions was working through to realize how long I had been suffering depression I didn't remember what it was like to feel truly happy. I had brief moments a week or two here and there but never long term. I just kept pushing on figuring this is life until I finally crash hard enough that people around me realized how bad it was and I was forced to get help. Depression is a tough demon to beat and there is no quick end to it and not usually one reason for it.

Mark it 8, Dudes.  It's a constant source of amazement and amusement to me that we can accept things so easily no matter how bad they are, and often fall into that trap of not even trying to make changes for the better.  Been there, done that.

The one bit of advice I will offer whatever your thoughts. Talk with a psychiatrist or counselor or both. Doctors do what they can but that's not their discipline. Unless it's a medical chemical imbalance they can give you meds. But as my psychiatrist explained it most depression meds are designed to help you make it through counseling. They are a crutch to help while you face the worst of your problems until you can cope on your own but you need a professional to guide you there. Plus they generally have a better idea as to which meds will help your problems more. Just my opinion with a bit of life experience.

Quote from: The_Sleevez on September 01, 2014, 06:13:34 PM
The one bit of advice I will offer whatever your thoughts. Talk with a psychiatrist or counselor or both. Doctors do what they can but that's not their discipline. Unless it's a medical chemical imbalance they can give you meds. But as my psychiatrist explained it most depression meds are designed to help you make it through counseling. They are a crutch to help while you face the worst of your problems until you can cope on your own but you need a professional to guide you there. Plus they generally have a better idea as to which meds will help your problems more. Just my opinion with a bit of life experience.

Sound advice.  I'd also add that if someone sees a psychiatrist or counselor for help and doesn't feel they're getting the help they need, they should find another psychiatrist or counselor.  It can get discouraging going from doctor to doctor, but once you find the right psychiatrist or counselor for you it can make all the difference in the world.

Quote from: Reverend Al on September 01, 2014, 08:53:28 PM

Quote from: The_Sleevez on September 01, 2014, 06:13:34 PM
The one bit of advice I will offer whatever your thoughts. Talk with a psychiatrist or counselor or both. Doctors do what they can but that's not their discipline. Unless it's a medical chemical imbalance they can give you meds. But as my psychiatrist explained it most depression meds are designed to help you make it through counseling. They are a crutch to help while you face the worst of your problems until you can cope on your own but you need a professional to guide you there. Plus they generally have a better idea as to which meds will help your problems more. Just my opinion with a bit of life experience.

Sound advice.  I'd also add that if someone sees a psychiatrist or counselor for help and doesn't feel they're getting the help they need, they should find another psychiatrist or counselor.  It can get discouraging going from doctor to doctor, but once you find the right psychiatrist or counselor for you it can make all the difference in the world.

I agree with these comments completely!  I am in the process of doing this right now (switching) and although it isn't always the easiest thing to do, it will be well worth it in the end.  Its a HUGE help to have a counselor and/or psychiatrist that is on the same page as you!

I wish I could find a psychiatrist who could help. The problem is this state has cut mental health from the budget a long time ago. Also, I don't have insurance and can't afford the private psych clinics.

So for me, it's a case of living with it.