Nihilism and depression, and how Dudeism helps me overcome it

[Pooh the Dude]

I have nihilistic tendencies - sometimes, everything just seems pointless and uncertain and unknowable. But these thoughts just fill me with sadness and despair. The inevitable depression keeps me from doing the things I want to do, like writing and going outside.

So instead, I make the conscious decision to follow the ideas and philosophy of Dudeism. A few years ago, I read The Tao of Pooh, and the philosophy of taoism has since had a profound effect on my own philosophy. When, while surfing the Internet one night, I discovered Dudeism, I burst out laughing with glee. It was too perfect for me. I knew I had found something special.

But I still struggle with bouts of depression brought on by thoughts of life's meaninglessness and the pointlessness of trying at all. That's why I'm writing here in this forum. I want to make a declaration of my intention to live life as dudely as I can (hopefully one day without even trying):

I choose to take it easy and go with the flow of life instead of despairing over the pointlessness of it all. I choose to do this because it makes my life easier and happier. I choose to be a dude.

It can be difficult to choose to be something when you naturally tend to be something else, but to paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut, we are what we choose to be, and we must be careful about what we choose to be. I choose to be a Dude, not a nihilist, because if I didn't, my life would be one full of doing nothing because it's pointless. Now, my life will be full of doing whatever comes along because fuck it.

P.S. I got myself ordained a few weeks ago. I can't wait for my certificate of ordination to arrive so I can throw it up on a wall and be all official-like.

[BikerDude]

I suppose that in the conventional sense I'm a bit of a nihilist.
I don't believe that life or the universe has any inherent meaning or purpose.
But for me that doesn't make it pointless.
I'm generally happy with my own little purposes.
My bike, some beers, some nice babes and the sun shining down.
I work to feed the monkey. The monkey being me and my family.

Not to be at all a "know it all" (for a change) but are you sure there isn't something more than a philosophical quandary at work here? Clinical depression is often biochemical in nature. I know a good many people who suffer from it.
It's a condition like diabetes or whooping cough.

[Masked Dude]

First, I'd like to thank Biker for believe that depression can be biochemical. I've had it since a very young age and none of the pills ever helped (so I stopped).

Second, good job that you identify your own depression. It does take a conscious decision to take it head-on. Just keep in mind something that applies not only to depression, but to life: You'll probably stumble and fall. In fact, there's a chance you'll have a day or week or month that you'll feel like you failed. But as long as you keep it up, you haven't failed. You're a wet machine and every machine needs a little downtime and maintenance.

Just keep going. You'll do it. And welcome to our rug, dude.

[Masked Dude]

First, I'd like to thank Biker for believe that depression can be biochemical. I've had it since a very young age and none of the pills ever helped (so I stopped).

Second, good job that you identify your own depression. It does take a conscious decision to take it head-on. Just keep in mind something that applies not only to depression, but to life: You'll probably stumble and fall. In fact, there's a chance you'll have a day or week or month that you'll feel like you failed. But as long as you keep it up, you haven't failed. You're a wet machine and every machine needs a little downtime and maintenance.

Just keep going. You'll do it. And welcome to our rug, dude.

[The_Sleevez]

Welcome dude glad to have you join us. Depression sucks I struggle with it myself and like masked dude meds either made it worse or did nothing. I found counseling and support groups helped me quite a bit find people who struggle themselves and understand is a great help. My counselor focused a great deal on healthy nutrition and sleep. I was truly amazed by how much better I felt just by changing those to things. It's a tough fight sometimes.

[Pooh the Dude]

Thanks for your replies, you dudes. As a newcomer, I'm really appreciating the community here. Really nice, easy-going folk around here 

BikerDude, I sincerely appreciate your advice re: clinical depression. I do recognize that in many many cases there are "bad chemicals" (as Vonnegut - another of my favorite dudes - puts it) to blame for depression. I have gone down the medication road, and it's not something I really think is good for me (though I realize that for many people medication is a necessity). I think for me, it's a matter of, as Masked Dude and The_Sleevez put it, being conscious of it and adjusting my attitude as needed. Also, like you guys said, being sure to take care of myself with good food and sleep and sunshine. And perhaps a little herbal supplement every now and then 

The_Sleevez, I am a wee bit wary of support groups, but thanks to your post, I will consider them as an option. So, thanks!

Gonna keep on keepin' on!

[Dave]

Pooh,

The solution to the pointlessness of life, is to create or adopt a point.

What I mean by this, is that meaning is created by humans.

I suspect you may be a bit of an outsider, a different person. This I can relate to.

What you focus on, and dedicate your life to, can be your purpose.

My purpose, is different to your purpose because we are different people.

If you are feeling nihilistic and depressed, I suspect it's because you are not a passionate believer in your 'purpose'. You may not have a purpose yet.

You can adopt a purpose, a cause, or you can create your own. Much like in my other church, The Universal Life Church, you can create your own Ministry.

I find this short message from Henry Rollins in this regard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNgrxgmcwck

[Bogbrat]

I see nihilism as less of a statement but more a question. I was heavily nihilistic and depressed at one stage of my life, and as I made the natural progression through personal experiences, out of it I came to a certain perspective of perhaps nihilism should be seen as asking the question "What is the meaning? instead of the direct statement "There is no meaning..

I am not offering this as answer to nihilism or a theory of what nihilism truly means but just as seeds for thoughts of reflection upon existentialism and depression.


Peace, my friends

[BikerDude]

First, I'd like to thank Biker for believe that depression can be biochemical. I've had it since a very young age and none of the pills ever helped (so I stopped).

Second, good job that you identify your own depression. It does take a conscious decision to take it head-on. Just keep in mind something that applies not only to depression, but to life: You'll probably stumble and fall. In fact, there's a chance you'll have a day or week or month that you'll feel like you failed. But as long as you keep it up, you haven't failed. You're a wet machine and every machine needs a little downtime and maintenance.

Just keep going. You'll do it. And welcome to our rug, dude.

I don't suffer from depression.
I know several people who do.

And I don't suggest that the answer is medication.
Depression often has a biochemical aspect. That doesn't suggest that the "cure" or treatment is or should be medication. But it is important for people to recognize that the "problem" they are experiencing is a disease.
Perhaps in inbalance like diabetes. In my experience people often suffer guilt for mental afflictions.
They shouldn't. After that it's up to the experts. I've heard varying results where medications are concerned.
Usually it seems to be trading one regrettable thing for another. But the bottom line is that it is not anyone's fault and people need to seek help from medical professionals.

I don't believe that Nihilism is in any way related to depression.
I'll grant that for a person with depression Nihilism would be a particularly difficult subject.
If the definition of Nihilism is a belief that life and the universe lack inherent meaning then 93 percent of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are Nihilists and in my experience no greater number are afflicted with depression than the average.

[Hominid]

Welcome Pooh dude,

I too can get depressed and nihilistic, and through the years have sought various cures... St. John's wort didn't really do much for me, but then I found something called rhodiola rosea.  Works like a charm, even if I go off it for a while.  It's because of this experience that I agree depression is a brain chemical thing.  My health is okay (other than some little annoying things), I make a good living, and I truly believe every day above ground is a good one.  I have nothing to bitch about, and a LOT to be thankful for, so I was determined to find something that worked that WASN'T a pharmaceutical with secondary and tertiary side effects.  Anyway, that's my story; I can relate to your's and I truly wish you all the luck in the world in finding an answer...

Take'r easy Pooh!!!

[DigitalBuddha]

Pooh the Dude and Bogbrat, Good to have you both in our dudetopian beach community, mangs; grab a place on the rug and abide, dudes. Bars' over there.

[Reverend Al]

First, let me congratulate and commend you on your decision to take a direction in your life that leads you away from the depression and nihilistic tendencies you feel Pooh the Dude.  It's easy to give in to such things, but not so easy to challenge them head-on, especially when that challenge raises it's ugly head again and again and again.

I've suffered from severe depression for as long as I can remember; I hesitate to call it "clinical" depression because I've never been officially diagnosed.  Unfortunately, I was reactive rather than proactive.  As a child I didn't really know what it was, and as I grew older I just accepted that it would happen to me from time to time.  I managed it without really dealing with it, and never thought to seek out a "cure".  I was fortunate--about the time I entered my mid-30s the universe saw fit to put a person in my life who also suffered from severe depression from childhood.  We became friends, and it wasn't long before she'd "call me" on my pretense that I was fine and everything was normal (what we came to call "the party face").  She recognized it because she'd done it herself for several years but, unlike me, she had taken steps to rid herself of this "affliction".  And she was the first person who had ever seriously taken note of it--for decades I had successfully hidden it from my parents, my siblings, my friends, even my wife.  Eventually she offered to teach me ways to combat it, just to see if they would help, and I accepted.  It took at least a few years, but at some point I came to realize my bouts of depression were occurring less frequently and were becoming less severe.  I'm now 53 years old, and haven't had a bad bout for several years.  I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm cured, but I now know how to control and suppress the depression before it gets out of hand.

The key for me was, as you put it above, "being conscious of it and adjusting my attitude as needed".  As I'm sure you're aware, depression affects the way you think and alters your perceptions.  It's easy to let it take over, and once that happens those feelings of despondence can easily lead you to believe everything is pointless because you're unable to derive pleasure from anything, and if you're not getting any joy out of life what's the point of living it?  I tend to equate it to a fire--if you don't notice it and don't put it out immediately it will consume everything in it's path, but if you locate it and extinguish it as soon as you smell smoke the damage is usually minimal.  So that was the main mental "trick" that worked for me--the moment I felt those feelings of depression coming on I'd focus on all of the positive things in my life.  Rather than give in to it as I had done in the past, I'd refuse to allow it to take control.  Believe me, it sounds easier than it is.  As I wrote above it took years for me to "master" this, but now I can do it without really thinking about it if I have to (and I haven't had to for a long, long, long time).

To be clear, I don't recommend this as a course of action for everyone suffering from severe/clinical depression; I'm only saying it worked for me.  Try it if you feel you need to, but don't get discouraged if things don't miraculously change for you overnight.

[Bullett00th]

'We are the way of the universe to know itself'

This thought has helped me a lot when struggling with depression, when everything around just seems meaningless and empty, when getting up in the morning feels futile and when you don't want to sleep just because you don't want the next day to come.

All it is is a very small, local mind cage that is created over the years of routine: our jobs, our everyday life, even our entertainment. We get stuck in the same though circle which after a time may become a downward spiral.
In these cases I just think of how small these 'issues' truly are compared to the vastness of the universe. Everything instantly becomes interesting and starts having purpose. Even if your general view on the universe is nihilistic, it only means you have stopped looking for the 'why', but there's always room for the 'how' in knowing the world.

A little consciousness expansion and you'll be back to your normal life, and it won't get beytter or worse, it will stay the same and you won't care for it the same. But you won't care for it in a good way - like all these little problems don't truly matter

[BikerDude]

It occurs to me that the semi official mental health counselor of Dudeism should be Jimmy Buffett. It's about attitudes Dudes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpsTRbJKoa0


Very related to this topic.

The related material starts at around the 5:30 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzY4f6LQVlI

[Reverend Al]

'We are the way of the universe to know itself'

This thought has helped me a lot when struggling with depression, when everything around just seems meaningless and empty, when getting up in the morning feels futile and when you don't want to sleep just because you don't want the next day to come.

All it is is a very small, local mind cage that is created over the years of routine: our jobs, our everyday life, even our entertainment. We get stuck in the same though circle which after a time may become a downward spiral.
In these cases I just think of how small these 'issues' truly are compared to the vastness of the universe. Everything instantly becomes interesting and starts having purpose. Even if your general view on the universe is nihilistic, it only means you have stopped looking for the 'why', but there's always room for the 'how' in knowing the world.

A little consciousness expansion and you'll be back to your normal life, and it won't get beytter or worse, it will stay the same and you won't care for it the same. But you won't care for it in a good way - like all these little problems don't truly matter

That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger.  If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth.  And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.

More often than not, my own depression didn't need any triggers.  I could be in a good mood one moment, and that "darkness" would just start to warsh over this Dude for no apparent reason.  It was unreasonable and made no sense.  So I'd start to mentally "examine" what could have caused it in an effort to figure out why it was happening, and that would lead to thinking about everything that was "wrong" with my life (both real and imagined) which, of course, accelerated that downward spiral and made the depression worse.  And that would become the pattern--feel it coming on, try to figure out why, walk right into that "mind cage" as you called it, and I'd find myself trapped in that cage with all of my most negative thoughts, emotions, and feelings.

It's funny how the mind works sometimes.  I'd had these bouts of severe depression so often that every great once in a while the depression was almost comforting in a twisted sort of way.  It was familiar, like visiting with an old friend.  The trouble is that it was that friend who was a bad influence--the one that always tried to get you to drink too much, cheat on your spouse, start a bar fight, steal a car for a joyride, get thrown in jail, or whatever other fucked up things he/she could get you to do just for his/her own amusement.  [By the way, I've never actually done any of those things; I'm only using them as an example to make a point.]  On those times I'd feel the depression start and, rather than fight it, I'd just go with it, like slipping into a nice warm bath or a comfortable old bathrobe.  "Hello Old Friend.  I'll hang out with you for a while, maybe go to the In-N-Out for some burgers, but I'm gonna drive this time just to make sure we don't get into any trouble."  And, on those times, that's how I'd manage it.  Yeah, I'm making it sound almost fun here, but now I realize it was really nothing more than a "coping mechanism" that I'd use without really knowing I was doing it.  In reality I was one bad decision away from running my car into a retaining wall, having vagrants use it as a toilet, and letting Nihilists set it on fire (figuratively speaking, that is).

Anyway, I'm ramblin' again.  My point is that there are a number of biological and/or psychological causes of severe/clinical depression, and what "cures" one person won't necessarily work for another.  What's important is that someone who is suffering from severe/clinical depression takes action to find out which cure will work for them.  It's far from easy, and there's usually a great deal of time consuming trial-and-error involved, but it can be done.