The Dudeism Forum

I think that if Israel gave back the land they took in the West Bank, Golan Heights and what have you that a lot of shit would sort itself out in the Middle East. There seem to be a lot of Walters in Israel but there is also this dude:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/I6sPCSJu31U?rel=0

sorry, dude; I hit the "modify" link, and not the "quote" to answer your post, no harm intended and no changes made to you comment.

And afterwards they will sit down and gorge on bacon rolls ;)

Quote from: Boston Rockbury on November 22, 2012, 12:35:17 PM
I think that if Israel gave back the land they took in the West Bank, Golan Heights and what have you that a lot of shit would sort itself out in the Middle East. There seem to be a lot of Walters in Israel but there is also this dude:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/I6sPCSJu31U?rel=0

Unlikely; the "Palestinians" would simply demand more land until they have it all; actually, their goal is not the land, they couldn't give a shit about the land of Israel, they simply want dead Jews. The land means nothing to them, it's not even mentioned in the ko'ran as anything to do with muslims or so-called "Palestinians," in fact, it's not mentioned at all. Show me a single reference in the ko'ran concerning Jerusalem, or it being important to muslims; you won't find it.

They, before Israel was a nation, didn't want anything to do with the land of Israel and had all but vacated it when they were part of the Ottoman empire, then later, under control of the British, having SOLD vast amounts of it to Jews.

Sorry, dude; "giving back" the West Bank, Golan Heights would be useless and dangerous.

QuoteUnlikely; the "Palestinians" would simply demand more land until they have it all; actually, their goal is not the land, they couldn't give a shit about the land of Israel, they simply want dead Jews. The land means nothing to them, it's not even mentioned in the ko'ran as anything to do with muslims or so-called "Palestinians," in fact, it's not mentioned at all. Show me a single reference in the ko'ran concerning Jerusalem, or it being important to muslims; you won't find it.

They, before Israel was a nation, didn't want anything to do with the land of Israel and had all but vacated it when they were part of the Ottoman empire, then later, under control of the British, having SOLD vast amounts of it to Jews.

Sorry, dude; "giving back" the West Bank, Golan Heights would be useless and dangerous.

I agree with all of the above DB.

The Golan war (Yom Kippur) was an unprovoked attack on Israel who then fought to keep the heights and give security to Israel. It is doing that!

There are something like 800 million arabs who would like to see the end of Israel and that is nothing compared to the billion or so muslims that would like the same.

I lived in Arabia for many years and never met one who didn't agree with the Nazis or the holocaust..

Go figure?

I do not think for one second that Israel conceding a single piece of land would alleviate the problem!

I've travelled to every Gulf state (except the Yemen) and I've visited Israel. Take a guess where I'd rather live?

Shalom dudes

Actually,I think you are talking shite.What is taking place is a rerun of manifest destiny.With a similar amount of organisation and moral imperative on both sides.

QuoteActually,I think you are talking shite.

I believe that is your Didely opinion dude.

"Manifest Destiny" What the fuck is that? Some sort of karma for "killing " an allegory or a made up messiah?

A sort of ongoing genocidal hatred throughout all the Centuries against a tiny sect who supposedly rallied with and then against a peaceful but radical, long haired, blue eyed white skinned ,son of a carpenter named Jesus (which in fact history does not actually record, there is not a single written record about the dude...not one! Look it up.)

No. What is taking is place is pure hatred and intolerance. Based on fabrications superstitions and bare faced lies. Then someone got hurt and it became personal! Then the family got involved. Then they carried on hating because they had an excuse.

"manifest destiny" Now that is the biggest load of shite I've ever heard.

IMDO of course

Quote from: Zen Dog on November 22, 2012, 07:45:03 PM
Actually,I think you are talking shite.What is taking place is a rerun of manifest destiny.With a similar amount of organisation and moral imperative on both sides.

Quote from: Caesar dude on November 22, 2012, 08:18:54 PM

QuoteActually,I think you are talking shite.

I believe that is your Didely opinion dude.

"Manifest Destiny" What the fuck is that? Some sort of karma for "killing " an allegory or a made up messiah?

Manifest Destiny - Like an opinion, man......

Manifest Destiny was the belief widely held by Americans in the 19th century that the United States was destined to expand across the continent. The concept, born out of "a sense of mission to redeem the Old World", was enabled by "the potentialities of a new earth for building a new heaven". The phrase itself meant many different things to many different people. The unity of the definitions ended at "expansion, prearranged by Heaven". Mid-19th-century Democrats would use it to explain the need for expansion beyond the Louisiana Territory.

Manifest destiny provided the dogma and tone for the largest acquisition of U.S. territory. It was used by Democrats in the 1840s to justify the war with Mexico and it was also used to acquire portions of Oregon from the British Empire. But Manifest Destiny always limped along because of its internal limitations and the issue of slavery, says Merk, and never became a national priority. By 1843 John Quincy Adams, a major supporter, had changed his mind and repudiated Manifest Destiny because it meant the expansion of slavery in Texas.

The legacy is a complex one. The belief in an American mission to promote and defend democracy throughout the world, as expounded by Abraham Lincoln and later by Woodrow Wilson and George W. Bush, continues to have an influence on American political ideology.

Check out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

I was trying to be analagous or something.There is an established UN agreed border between Israel and the West Bank.Settlers under the protection of the
IDF illegaly cross it and  build homes etc.Then the government moves the border to encompass them.Locals who have farmed these areas for generations then lose access to their land.Black Hills of Dakota dude.History repeats itself,first as comedy then as tragedy.

Yeah, I believe that land really does matter to Palestinians, as it does to most people. Land is linked with your home, traditions, wealth, water rights all sorts of stuff.
I think it is a victim mentality to believe that all muslims want the destruction of Israel. There is plenty of evidence to show that the principal muslim attitude is some degree of acceptance mixed with feelings of resentment on certain issues - and a central area of resentment is ....land. The rhetoric of aggression and destruction comes mainly from frustration and there are practical measures which could be taken to greatly reduce that sence of injustice.

Manifest destiny...an excuse for genocide..
Worked out well for the native peoples of America.

QuoteI think it is a victim mentality to believe that all muslims want the destruction of Israel.

Call it what you like. It's part of the Muslim / Arab psyche. I was going through customs in Abu Dhabi ( a more liberal Arab State than most) and the guy checking my hand luggage pounced upon my pocket English didctionary. He flicked through the pages until he got to the letter i, then with a black marker pen promptly wiped out the word Israel!

I don't think there is an Arabic word for tolerance!

تسامح

Quoteتسامح

Very funny and how literal of you! 

They also have a word for Israel إسرائيل but I wasn't allowed it in my dictionary!

Quote from: Boston Rockbury on November 23, 2012, 07:40:50 AM
Yeah, I believe that land really does matter to Palestinians, as it does to most people. Land is linked with your home, traditions, wealth, water rights all sorts of stuff.
I think it is a victim mentality to believe that all muslims want the destruction of Israel. There is plenty of evidence to show that the principal muslim attitude is some degree of acceptance mixed with feelings of resentment on certain issues - and a central area of resentment is ....land. The rhetoric of aggression and destruction comes mainly from frustration and there are practical measures which could be taken to greatly reduce that sence of injustice.

If that land mattered so much to them, why did they do all but NOTHING with it for centuries? Suddenly, with Israel there, it matters. It doesn't matter what you believe, history is history. The land means nothing to them, killing Jews does.

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on November 23, 2012, 05:16:18 PM
If that land mattered so much to them, why did they do all but NOTHING with it for centuries?

Native Americans didn't really 'do anything with' the land for centuries. It doesn't mean you don't value something just because you haven't built a casino on it yet.