The Dudeism Forum

I don't know man, this is a weird scene.
Who are we to believe? Smokey or Walter?

If you pause the movie, you will see that at no time is Smokey filmed as
being over the line, also, as a former mechanic of a bowling alley, I can tell you
that in that particular bowling alley, there are infrared sensors on the foul line
which trigger a buzzer and a red light if you go over the line...and that didn't happen.
It is, of course, possible that the sensor was broken or turned off on that lane, however.
Still, what is the most curious thing is how The Dude backs up Walter very subtley by saying,
"...its Smokey, so his toe slipped over a little, its just a game man."
But its obvious that The Dude did not see the foul, his eyes were not looking in that direction...
so does the Dude automatically trust Walter over Smokey? Or is the Dude running a good cop,
bad cop scam with Walter? I think it must be the first because I dont see the Dude being
evil like that. Still, it was a weird thing to say, if the Dude did not actually see it, why did he
assume Walter is right, and not Smokey? Does Smokey have a history of going over the line? and of
ignoring it? Whats the deal here? I need to know.

Was Smokey over the line or not?!

Smokey has his story, Walter has his.

well Dude, we just don't know

C'mon man, this isn't Nam, there are rules here!
There is an objective reality! Its been proven by the
invention of the camera that an objective reality exists!!
It cant be both realities man!!!

Either Walter or Smokey is right man!! AHhhhhhhhhh!

(*Turtle pulls out hair, grinds teeth, screams, faints, and collapses on the floor, darkness wurshed over Turtle, darker than a black steer's tuchas on a moonless prairie night.)

You got any leads, you crazy fuck?

Quote from: Turtle on July 11, 2008, 09:34:29 PM
C'mon man, this isn't Nam, there are rules here!
There is an objective reality! Its been proven by the
invention of the camera that an objective reality exists!!
It cant be both realities man!!!

Either Walter or Smokey is right man!! AHhhhhhhhhh!

(*Turtle pulls out hair, grinds teeth, screams, faints, and collapses on the floor, darkness wurshed over Turtle, darker than a black steer's tuchas on a moonless prairie night.)

I'd say because Walter was busy talking to the Dude, was some distance from the line, and his attention was distracted, I put more faith in Smokey being right than Walter.

Plus, a fragile pacifist with emotional problems like Smokey probably would've caved immediately to Walter's bluster if he wasn't certain he didn't cross the line.

That's just, like, my opinon, man. Overall, I think the ambiguity surrounding who was right fits right in there with the whole durned human comedy that is TBL.

Plus, while there may be an objective reality, most of us experience/interpret it subjectively. The picture of objective reality you mention is open to subjective interpretation. The Zapruder film is a classic example. Does it show a shot coming from the front or from behind?

The whole concept abates. Many learned men have disputed this, but in the 14th century the Rambam, he like...he...

Ah, fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling.

Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

Quote from: digitalbuddha on July 12, 2008, 02:24:24 PM
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

Good lead, DB. We all need to start working in shifts on this.

I think he was trying to placate Walter, myself. But I'll take this to the boys down in the lab and see what they think. 

QuoteCome on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

No, The Dude did not see anything, because his eyes are turned to Walter when Walter claims to witness that Smokey was over the line. There is no definitive evidence that the Dude has any definitive evidence that Smokey was over. This is mere speculation. I really think we need to bring in Bill Kunstler or Ron Kuby on this, Smokey has rights, and Walter's aggression should not stand. Don't get me wrong, I like Walter, but he can be an asshole. However, Smokey is an enigma, he could be a well-known cheater to everyone in the league, that would explain The Dude's statement, assuming that the toe slipped over. Was it a toe with green nail polish? We'll never know. Was it even Smokey's toe? Who's toe is it?


By the way....

QuoteThe Zapruder film is a classic example. Does it show a shot coming from the front or from behind?

Well I had to look up "Zapruder film" and watching that will bring a dark cloud to your Saturday man, let me tell you, that is probably one of the darkest moments in history, recorded right there on film, to be preserved forever. Maybe I am just fragile, man, but that makes me want to vomit.
It looks to me like there is a shot that comes from the front, and hits both Connelly and Kennedy, and then another shot from the front/side that hits Kennedy in the head. The strangest thing is how, in the film, you cant see the first shot too well because at that exact moment its blocked by that road sign, thats really eerily coincidental.

Quote from: Turtle on July 12, 2008, 06:59:13 PM

QuoteCome on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

No, The Dude did not see anything, because his eyes are turned to Walter when Walter claims to witness that Smokey was over the line. There is no definitive evidence that the Dude has any definitive evidence that Smokey was over. This is mere speculation. I really think we need to bring in Bill Kunstler or Ron Kuby on this, Smokey has rights, and Walter's aggression should not stand. Don't get me wrong, I like Walter, but he can be an asshole. However, Smokey is an enigma, he could be a well-known cheater to everyone in the league, that would explain The Dude's statement, assuming that the toe slipped over. Was it a toe with green nail polish? We'll never know. Was it even Smokey's toe? Who's toe is it?


By the way....

QuoteThe Zapruder film is a classic example. Does it show a shot coming from the front or from behind?

Well I had to look up "Zapruder film" and watching that will bring a dark cloud to your Saturday man, let me tell you, that is probably one of the darkest moments in history, recorded right there on film, to be preserved forever. Maybe I am just fragile, man, but that makes me want to vomit.
It looks to me like there is a shot that comes from the front, and hits both Connelly and Kennedy, and then another shot from the front/side that hits Kennedy in the head. The strangest thing is how, in the film, you cant see the first shot too well because at that exact moment its blocked by that road sign, thats really eerily coincidental.

But...........

Maybe the dude noticed a "sensor trip" by Smokey at the front of the lane and was referring to that. The dude seemed to believe that he did; And dude, The new technology permits us to do exciting things with interactive bowling software. Wave of the future, Dude. 100% electronic. 

Smokey trips the line sensor, the dude notices it, Walter sees it as he is walking up and shouts OVER THE LINE. Dude says "Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game."

That's just like my opinion, man. I'll be working in shifts on it.

Quote from: SmokeytheBuddha on July 12, 2008, 06:35:44 PM

Quote from: digitalbuddha on July 12, 2008, 02:24:24 PM
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

Good lead, DB. We all need to start working in shifts on this.

I think he was trying to placate Walter, myself. But I'll take this to the boys down in the lab and see what they think. 

Fucking a, man. With four more detectives on the case, new shit will come to light.

Dbuddha, you're out of your element man....if the sensor was tripped, EVERYBODY would know it, since it activates a red light at the foot of the lane (which did not go on at any time when the camera was filming, and it also sounds a loud buzzer), both the light and the buzzer stay on for a long enough time so everyone would notice it.

The sensor was not tripped, there is definitive evidence of that, however, like i said, it could have been turned off, or out of order. We need some more leads, we all need to adhere to a pretty strict drug regimen to keep our minds limber, and above all, take it easy.

Now....I have more leads...

If you watch closely, you will notice that, although the Dude was not looking, Donny was!
Donny saw whether Smokey went over or not, now, judging from the expression on Donny's
face during the argument, I would say that Donny believed that Smokey was over the line too.

Another thing, why don't any of Smokey's teammates back him up? There is a significant amount of time of arguing before Walter pulls out the gun where any of Smokey's teammates could have put their two cents in, backing Smokey up, but they didn't. That also makes me lean towards thinking that Smokey was over.

I am starting to think Walter is right now. Without definitive evidence, this is still just my opinion.

There is one strange thing though, when the Dude makes his statement that the toe (with or without green nail polish, whether it is Smokey's toe or not) slipped over, Smokey does this quick sideglance and looks away, what's that about? Admission of guilt maybe? Maybe the Dude INSTINCTIVELY knows that Smokey was over, after all, he IS The Dude.

Exhibit One:(Donny looking, Dude not)



Exhibit Two:

Dudes, after looking more closely, I do not think these lanes have foul line sensors, I might be wrong.

Quote from: Turtle on July 13, 2008, 12:03:52 AM
Dudes, after looking more closely, I do not think these lanes have foul line sensors, I might be wrong.

What is this bullshit, man? I don't fucking care!  It don't matter to Digital Buddha! But you're not fooling me! You might fool the fucks in the league office, but you don't fool Digital Buddha! It's bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man!

Turtle Dude, my friend, new shit has come to light......

Point one: Turtle's line appears to be drawn arbitrarily and inaccurate (as it moves from right to left). It traces from the end of the right gutter to a point to the left way too far forward thus falsely placing Smokey's toe behind (not over) the line.

Point two: clearly establishes where the boarder line of the bowling lane would be on both sides (right and left), where both gutters end, and where the censor would also be. If you look closely, Smokey's left toe is barely (but clearly) over the line as seen below.


Exhibits.........





Close up........




Sensors? Looks like there were..........



Smokey's toe appears to be over (just barely) the line...........



Also, we all know that Donny was not always bowling with ten pins, he was sometimes totally out of it, so his input could be based on a flashback.


Mark it zero for Smokey.