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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Turtle on July 11, 2008, 04:13:15 AM

Title: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 11, 2008, 04:13:15 AM
I don't know man, this is a weird scene.
Who are we to believe? Smokey or Walter?

If you pause the movie, you will see that at no time is Smokey filmed as
being over the line, also, as a former mechanic of a bowling alley, I can tell you
that in that particular bowling alley, there are infrared sensors on the foul line
which trigger a buzzer and a red light if you go over the line...and that didn't happen.
It is, of course, possible that the sensor was broken or turned off on that lane, however.
Still, what is the most curious thing is how The Dude backs up Walter very subtley by saying,
"...its Smokey, so his toe slipped over a little, its just a game man."
But its obvious that The Dude did not see the foul, his eyes were not looking in that direction...
so does the Dude automatically trust Walter over Smokey? Or is the Dude running a good cop,
bad cop scam with Walter? I think it must be the first because I dont see the Dude being
evil like that. Still, it was a weird thing to say, if the Dude did not actually see it, why did he
assume Walter is right, and not Smokey? Does Smokey have a history of going over the line? and of
ignoring it? Whats the deal here? I need to know.

Was Smokey over the line or not?!
 :-\
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: SmokeytheBuddha on July 11, 2008, 08:48:57 PM
Smokey has his story, Walter has his.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Dude1967 on July 11, 2008, 09:31:35 PM
well Dude, we just don't know
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 11, 2008, 09:34:29 PM
C'mon man, this isn't Nam, there are rules here!
There is an objective reality! Its been proven by the
invention of the camera that an objective reality exists!!
It cant be both realities man!!!

Either Walter or Smokey is right man!! AHhhhhhhhhh!

(*Turtle pulls out hair, grinds teeth, screams, faints, and collapses on the floor, darkness wurshed over Turtle, darker than a black steer's tuchas on a moonless prairie night.)
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 11, 2008, 10:30:20 PM
You got any leads, you crazy fuck?
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: SmokeytheBuddha on July 12, 2008, 09:33:10 AM
C'mon man, this isn't Nam, there are rules here!
There is an objective reality! Its been proven by the
invention of the camera that an objective reality exists!!
It cant be both realities man!!!

Either Walter or Smokey is right man!! AHhhhhhhhhh!

(*Turtle pulls out hair, grinds teeth, screams, faints, and collapses on the floor, darkness wurshed over Turtle, darker than a black steer's tuchas on a moonless prairie night.)

I'd say because Walter was busy talking to the Dude, was some distance from the line, and his attention was distracted, I put more faith in Smokey being right than Walter.

Plus, a fragile pacifist with emotional problems like Smokey probably would've caved immediately to Walter's bluster if he wasn't certain he didn't cross the line.

That's just, like, my opinon, man. Overall, I think the ambiguity surrounding who was right fits right in there with the whole durned human comedy that is TBL.

Plus, while there may be an objective reality, most of us experience/interpret it subjectively. The picture of objective reality you mention is open to subjective interpretation. The Zapruder film is a classic example. Does it show a shot coming from the front or from behind?

The whole concept abates. Many learned men have disputed this, but in the 14th century the Rambam, he like...he...

Ah, fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 12, 2008, 02:24:24 PM
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: SmokeytheBuddha on July 12, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

Good lead, DB. We all need to start working in shifts on this.

I think he was trying to placate Walter, myself. But I'll take this to the boys down in the lab and see what they think.  ;D
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 12, 2008, 06:59:13 PM
Quote
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

No, The Dude did not see anything, because his eyes are turned to Walter when Walter claims to witness that Smokey was over the line. There is no definitive evidence that the Dude has any definitive evidence that Smokey was over. This is mere speculation. I really think we need to bring in Bill Kunstler or Ron Kuby on this, Smokey has rights, and Walter's aggression should not stand. Don't get me wrong, I like Walter, but he can be an asshole. However, Smokey is an enigma, he could be a well-known cheater to everyone in the league, that would explain The Dude's statement, assuming that the toe slipped over. Was it a toe with green nail polish? We'll never know. Was it even Smokey's toe? Who's toe is it?


By the way....
Quote
The Zapruder film is a classic example. Does it show a shot coming from the front or from behind?
Well I had to look up "Zapruder film" and watching that will bring a dark cloud to your Saturday man, let me tell you, that is probably one of the darkest moments in history, recorded right there on film, to be preserved forever. Maybe I am just fragile, man, but that makes me want to vomit.
It looks to me like there is a shot that comes from the front, and hits both Connelly and Kennedy, and then another shot from the front/side that hits Kennedy in the head. The strangest thing is how, in the film, you cant see the first shot too well because at that exact moment its blocked by that road sign, thats really eerily coincidental.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 12, 2008, 07:54:57 PM
Quote
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

No, The Dude did not see anything, because his eyes are turned to Walter when Walter claims to witness that Smokey was over the line. There is no definitive evidence that the Dude has any definitive evidence that Smokey was over. This is mere speculation. I really think we need to bring in Bill Kunstler or Ron Kuby on this, Smokey has rights, and Walter's aggression should not stand. Don't get me wrong, I like Walter, but he can be an asshole. However, Smokey is an enigma, he could be a well-known cheater to everyone in the league, that would explain The Dude's statement, assuming that the toe slipped over. Was it a toe with green nail polish? We'll never know. Was it even Smokey's toe? Who's toe is it?


By the way....
Quote
The Zapruder film is a classic example. Does it show a shot coming from the front or from behind?
Well I had to look up "Zapruder film" and watching that will bring a dark cloud to your Saturday man, let me tell you, that is probably one of the darkest moments in history, recorded right there on film, to be preserved forever. Maybe I am just fragile, man, but that makes me want to vomit.
It looks to me like there is a shot that comes from the front, and hits both Connelly and Kennedy, and then another shot from the front/side that hits Kennedy in the head. The strangest thing is how, in the film, you cant see the first shot too well because at that exact moment its blocked by that road sign, thats really eerily coincidental.

But...........

Maybe the dude noticed a "sensor trip" by Smokey at the front of the lane and was referring to that. The dude seemed to believe that he did; And dude, The new technology permits us to do exciting things with interactive bowling software. Wave of the future, Dude. 100% electronic. 

Smokey trips the line sensor, the dude notices it, Walter sees it as he is walking up and shouts OVER THE LINE. Dude says "Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game."

That's just like my opinion, man. I'll be working in shifts on it.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 12, 2008, 08:09:44 PM
Come on Walter, it's just--it's Smokey.  So his toe slipped over a little, it's just a game.

That might be a lead. Sounds like the dude saw something and could give testimony as to the validity of Walter's claim that Smokey's toe slipped over the line. Did he see something, or was he just giving into Walter's demand that Smokey fouled to keep the peace?

Good lead, DB. We all need to start working in shifts on this.

I think he was trying to placate Walter, myself. But I'll take this to the boys down in the lab and see what they think.  ;D

Fucking a, man. With four more detectives on the case, new shit will come to light.

Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 12, 2008, 11:19:24 PM
Dbuddha, you're out of your element man....if the sensor was tripped, EVERYBODY would know it, since it activates a red light at the foot of the lane (which did not go on at any time when the camera was filming, and it also sounds a loud buzzer), both the light and the buzzer stay on for a long enough time so everyone would notice it.

The sensor was not tripped, there is definitive evidence of that, however, like i said, it could have been turned off, or out of order. We need some more leads, we all need to adhere to a pretty strict drug regimen to keep our minds limber, and above all, take it easy.

Now....I have more leads...

If you watch closely, you will notice that, although the Dude was not looking, Donny was!
Donny saw whether Smokey went over or not, now, judging from the expression on Donny's
face during the argument, I would say that Donny believed that Smokey was over the line too.

Another thing, why don't any of Smokey's teammates back him up? There is a significant amount of time of arguing before Walter pulls out the gun where any of Smokey's teammates could have put their two cents in, backing Smokey up, but they didn't. That also makes me lean towards thinking that Smokey was over.

I am starting to think Walter is right now. Without definitive evidence, this is still just my opinion.

There is one strange thing though, when the Dude makes his statement that the toe (with or without green nail polish, whether it is Smokey's toe or not) slipped over, Smokey does this quick sideglance and looks away, what's that about? Admission of guilt maybe? Maybe the Dude INSTINCTIVELY knows that Smokey was over, after all, he IS The Dude.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 13, 2008, 12:00:39 AM
Exhibit One:(Donny looking, Dude not)
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5066/exhibit1uq2.jpg)


Exhibit Two:
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1751/exhibit2ik0.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 13, 2008, 12:03:52 AM
Dudes, after looking more closely, I do not think these lanes have foul line sensors, I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 13, 2008, 01:55:29 AM
Dudes, after looking more closely, I do not think these lanes have foul line sensors, I might be wrong.

What is this bullshit, man?
I don't fucking care!  It don't matter to Digital Buddha! But you're not fooling me! You might fool the fucks in the league office, but you don't fool Digital Buddha! It's bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man!

Turtle Dude, my friend, new shit has come to light......

Point one: Turtle's line appears to be drawn arbitrarily and inaccurate (as it moves from right to left). It traces from the end of the right gutter to a point to the left way too far forward thus falsely placing Smokey's toe behind (not over) the line.

Point two: clearly establishes where the boarder line of the bowling lane would be on both sides (right and left), where both gutters end, and where the censor would also be. If you look closely, Smokey's left toe is barely (but clearly) over the line as seen below.


Exhibits.........

(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7166/52001218ev7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7672/18187597fh8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Close up........

(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9028/45332523uq2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Sensors? Looks like there were..........

(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6534/67205572wh2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Smokey's toe appears to be over (just barely) the line...........


(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/110/25231590gf6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Also, we all know that Donny was not always bowling with ten pins, he was sometimes totally out of it, so his input could be based on a flashback.


Mark it zero for Smokey.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 13, 2008, 08:15:43 AM
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7239/exhibit3re7.jpg)

Digital Buddha, my dude, your line is as straight as a johnson that has been jerked off manually way too many times, I'm sorry, brother, but this is not a level field of play.

You have to take into account depth of perception within a, within a 3 dimensional environment, your line would work if this was a 2-dimensional reality, however, in 3 dimensions, we must account for the curve of the space-time continuum which Einstein has explained so eloquently in previous literature.

Even though your line is straight, it is actually curved because it is in 2 dimensions where Smokey is in 3, however, in 3 dimensions (my line) curves, but comes out straight with an accurate estimate of measurement taking into account the equation of E=mc2+the Dude abides.

Given these new leads and this new shit which has come to light, I must declare that still no definitive evidence has been brought forth to prove one way or the other whether Smokey was actually over the line and whether we should mark it an 8 or a 0.

The only thing that has been shown here, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is that, digitalbuddha and myself, have WAY to much time on our hands.   ;D
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 13, 2008, 01:56:47 PM
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7239/exhibit3re7.jpg)

Digital Buddha, my dude, your line is as straight as a johnson that has been jerked off manually way too many times, I'm sorry, brother, but this is not a level field of play.

You have to take into account depth of perception within a, within a 3 dimensional environment, your line would work if this was a 2-dimensional reality, however, in 3 dimensions, we must account for the curve of the space-time continuum which Einstein has explained so eloquently in previous literature.

Even thought your line is straight, it is actually curved because it is in 2 dimensions where Smokey is in 3, however, in 3 dimensions (my line) curves, but comes out straight with an accurate estimate of measurement taking into account the equation of E=mc2+the Dude abides.

Given these new leads and this new shit which has come to light, I must declare that still no definitive evidence has been brought forth to prove one way or the other whether Smokey was actually over the line and whether we should mark it an 8 or a 0.

The only thing that has been shown here, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is that, digitalbuddha and myself, have WAY to much time on our hands.   ;D

 ;D Turtle dude, what the fuck are you blathering about?

Methodology.........


The bowling lane begins (officially) at the point at the end of the gutter. That is where the foul line is (and presumably the foul line sensor). If a dude's toe slips over the line, it's MARK IT ZERO. See exhibit one below for location of the foul line at the point of the end of the gutter.......

Exhibit one........

(http://www.bsu.edu/web/rcain/lane_t1.gif)

My line was carefully traced and drawn from the exact end of the gutter on the right to the exact end of the gutter on the left. Close examination clearly shows Smokey's toe to be just barely over the line as indicated. See..............

Exhibit two...........


(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/110/25231590gf6.jpg)


You have to take into account depth of perception within a, within a 3 dimensional environment, your line would work if this was a 2-dimensional reality, however, in 3 dimensions, we must account for the curve of the space-time continuum which Einstein has explained so eloquently in previous literature.


T-dude, this is not Nam, there are rules.......You might fool the fucks in the league office, but you don't fool Digital Buddha! It's bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man!

OVER THE LINE! Mark it zero for Smokey.

Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 13, 2008, 06:48:42 PM
I know my rights man. I want a fucking lawyer.

Dbuddha, you're still not taking into account the 3 dimensional reality.
Exhibit 4 clearly shows how straight lines become warped when viewing
3 dimensions on a 2 dimensional platform such as when you watch a movie.

Exhibit 5 shows the line without me emphasizing it by tracing it in black as I did before.
You can clearly see that the actual foul line does not match up to the position of your line.

Exhibit 4:

(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1861/exhibit4lu3.jpg)

Exhibit 5:

(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8831/exhibit5by4.jpg)

Anyway, my thinking about this case has become very uptight,
working in shifts and all that, I don't think any new shit is going to
come to light here, no promising leads in this direction, and, actually
I don't see how any of this has anything to do with my rug.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 13, 2008, 07:39:34 PM
Turtle-dude, its like Digital Buddha said, you look at the toe and it "appears to be barely over the line." Because of the quality of the image, it is impossible to tell for sure. You gotta buck up man, and dig what I'm saying. We will never know for sure, but either way you look at it, the line you drew...across this line you do not!!...oh, sorry, lost my train ah' thought here...as I was saying; the line you drew traced an incorrect path between the two boarders of the gutters (i.e., the foul line) falsely placing Smokey's toe behind the foul line. Obviously, you're not a golfer...


You wanna a toe, I can get you a toe, dude  ;D
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 13, 2008, 07:46:53 PM
Exhibit 6

(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8753/rugud6.jpg)


Woo peed on my rug.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 13, 2008, 07:58:16 PM
Exhibit 6

(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8753/rugud6.jpg)


Woo peed on my rug.

That rug really tied the room together, did it not?

 ;D T-dude, you are a worthy fucking adversary...the Turtle in the black pajamas. Now that's combat...
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 14, 2008, 02:49:52 AM
Quote
;D T-dude, you are a worthy fucking adversary...the Turtle in the black pajamas. Now that's combat...

I dig yer style too man, got the whole digitalbuddha thing goin.   :)
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: SmokeytheBuddha on July 14, 2008, 11:18:51 AM
But that picture shows Smokey AFTER he threw the ball. Perhaps Walter bellowing at poor Smokey so startled him that it caused him to cross the line (assuming that's what the photo proves).

You know how fragile Smokey is, man. He has emotional problems.

To definitively confirm or disconfirm that Smokey was over the line, we'd have to have a shot of him actually bowling, which we don't have.

Mark it an unsolvable mystery, dude.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Andrea D. on July 14, 2008, 04:33:33 PM
Digitalbuddha, Turtle, SmokeytheBuddha : They really cares about the rules.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: Turtle on July 14, 2008, 08:13:39 PM
Hahahaha. Fuck it.
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: SmokeytheBuddha on July 14, 2008, 08:43:10 PM
Digitalbuddha, Turtle, SmokeytheBuddha : They really cares about the rules.

Rules?

Is this a...what discussion board is this?
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: brandt on July 14, 2008, 11:59:52 PM
what in god's name are you blathering about, it's clear that smokey could not accomplish the simple task of dropping a ball onto the floor without going "over the line", therefore the goddamn plane has crashed into the mountain, which is the literal connection to not following the goddamn rules.


obviously your not a golfer. :o
Title: Re: Was Smokey Really Over The Line?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on July 15, 2008, 12:09:25 AM
This is not Nam............