No seriously dudes. The world has gone mad...totally mad!
Burma which is mainly Buddist has a few Muslim enclaves and recently there has been some tension for one reason or another. However the tension has escalated to deathly levels.
The police looked on as 25 muslims were slaughtered by a Buddist driven crowd! There is at least one eyewitness report of a Buddist monk using a sword to behead a muslim man.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-myanmar-violence-specialreport-idUSBRE9370AP20130408 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-myanmar-violence-specialreport-idUSBRE9370AP20130408)
There is a BBC Panorama programme due to be aired soon. I will keep you posted.
So much for the 4 noble truths! :(
Peace!! FFS PEACE!
It's like Lenin said; well, sorry, actually it was Marx..."Religion, the opiate of the people." Fuckin' eh.
Any moment now someone, somewhere is going to say, "But they're not real Buddhists!".
Quote from: RighteousDude on April 22, 2013, 08:25:13 AM
Any moment now someone, somewhere is going to say, "But they're not real Buddhists!".
I guess everything we know is a projection of our mind so they couldn't be real.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 22, 2013, 01:13:04 PM
I guess everything we know is a projection of our mind so they couldn't be real.
Whaddaya, some kind of fucking nihilist, man? :o Say it ain't so! ;D
Quote from: RighteousDude on April 22, 2013, 05:14:34 PM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 22, 2013, 01:13:04 PM
I guess everything we know is a projection of our mind so they couldn't be real.
Whaddaya, some kind of fucking nihilist, man? :o Say it ain't so! ;D
i aint sayin there is no objective reality just that everything we perceive and 'know' is mediated by our mental processes - but the reception of sensory data, processing of it by the brain and projection of a virtual image is normally so slick that we don't notice that 'reality' is a creative process (until we take some mushrooms and the brain bit gets monkied around with).
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 23, 2013, 08:24:56 AM
i aint sayin there is no objective reality just that everything we perceive and 'know' is mediated by our mental processes
Phew! Ya had me worried for a bit there.
Well, not really. All I had to do was to turn off the pedantic parser, and go with what I know instead. It's a risky business but I like sitting on the front edge of the sofa sometimes. ;D As long as nothing serious happens in 100 milliseconds or less I can keep up.
Carry on, but keep an eye out for armed religious loonies. Some days it seems that the bastards are everywhere, trying to force the world to conform to whatever goofy shit got into their heads.
Sure they are real Buddhists, they're just doing it wrong. had to say it, :p
The problem with religions is they are populated with people, people have all sorts of reasons to resort to violence. In this part of the world Buddhism is less a "religion" and more an identity, an ethnocentric identity. When you have cultures separated by deeply held identities plus social/economic problems, just sit back and wait for the blood to be spilt.
Whoa dudes, did you actually read the story?
It was the fucking MUSLIMS that incited the riot to begin with, and it was the MUSLIMS that beheaded a Buddhist monk which was the first killing that the Burmese monks retaliated for.
Personally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims. And although I cannot condone the killing of innocent people, and I especially cannot abide by the murder of children, good god what were they thinking; I still believe the Burmese are taking a step to stop an even bigger world threat, which is the muslim religion. These people want to fucking kill everyone who isn't muslim, they are always first to violence, they are always hateful and boasting, and they are liars. They openly admit in their own country and to each other, that anyone who is not muslim should be put to death, but the ones here in America or anywhere else in the world always claim "no no, that's the radicals" I'm just a good little muslim", ( you would say the same shit if you were behind enemy lines or surrounded by enemies) They are here in America, and are just evil people, period, boo on muslims, and I for one, am not leaving, I'm gonna drink my coffee, and any muslims can just kiss my glorious white American ass.
Quote from: Abideist on April 24, 2013, 12:08:36 AM
Personally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims.
Good guess, man.
Quote from: RighteousDude on April 24, 2013, 12:17:37 AM
Quote from: Abideist on April 24, 2013, 12:08:36 AM
Personally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims.
Good guess, man.
Guess you never lost anyone to muslim terrorists. Maybe you're one of them.
Islamic terrorism has to be faced, and it has to be seen for what it is; pure evil. Not doing so, not understanding that islam does pose a genuine threat to world peace and freedom, is not wise. It would be similar to refusing to face the nazi threat in pre-WWII Germany, and we all know how that ended. It is a fact of the 21st century that islam has all but replaced communism as the predominate challenge to security and liberty of the planet.
North Korea is about the only communist threat left on earth, and they can be handled, even with their childish and ridiculous nuclear sabre rattling.
Islam is NOT a religion of peace, that claim is absolute bullshit, unless you mean "peace after we have killed everyone who is not islam, subjugated all who are islam and rule the world by sharia law". It is practiced as a very undude uptight religion, and "convert by the sword" is native to the Qu'ran. Violent overthrow of other religions and cultures goes back to the very beginning of islam, the violence we are seeing is nothing new to muslims, its part of their very up bringing, doctrine and teaching.
At it's core, islam is in fact a religion of hate and intolerance. That DOES NOT mean that the majority of muslims practice violence or believe in violent or forceful overthrow of others, they don't, BUT, plenty of their fellow muslims do. Not recognizing that reality is dangerous.
Islam has nuroshied a reputation of "the largest religion" and therefore unstoppable. In reality, this is nonsense; only a billion people on earth are muslims, and there are over six billion on the planet; they are out numbered more than five to one, (hell, even the catholics out number them as do the nation of China) and only an estimated ten to fifteen per cent are dedicated "authentic" muslims with the rest being more on the cultural side and not daily practicing muslims. And only an estimated ten percent of authentic muslims are "radical" and even a far smaller amount active Jihadists. Yes, even with all of that narrowing down of numbers, there still remains a dangerous number of muslims that will, and are, being confronted because of their terrorism and terrorists plans; they are NOT to be trifled with.
As an example, witness how the muslims flooded out into the streets in Afghanistan when the morons, the Taliban, were run out of their country and deposed. It was sheer celebration that a worthless insane hardline group of muslims had been vanquished. The press has built them, islam worldwide, up into a gigantic unstoppable united religion, they are anything but that. In fact, sunni muslims are strongly (and at times, violently) opposed to shiite muslims, and often are at war between themselves.
All in all, clear thinking is needed here. Islam, the radicals, need to be put into submission to international law, and each nation with muslims must keep their religion under control with good laws and a democratic infrastructure. Britain is facing that challenge now, as is, to a far lessor degree, America. I personally feel that islam is fucking mindless ignorant stupidity, but I am more than willing to live in peace, real peace, with muslims. But I am also willing to tell islam...ACROSS THIS LINE, YOU DO NOT!
A friend of mine posted this on Facebook a few days ago...
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9466/40466116241523725624598.png)
There are clearly some problems with certain expressions of Islam but to jump from that to 'fuck muslims' is to forget that these people are our brothers and sisters.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 24, 2013, 06:47:30 AM
There are clearly some problems with certain expressions of Islam but to jump from that to 'fuck muslims' is to forget that these people are our brothers and sisters.
There's really no way that I can see to substantiate any claim that this or that Abrahamic religion is more or less violent than any other. It might be argued that the Mormons have toned it down since disbanding Joe Smith's hit squads, I guess. They still preach hate, but then apparently so do some Dudeists so that's a wash.
I can't find it in me to hate people just because they believe in invisible space monsters and the umbrella of their beliefs happens to cover some violent sects. If I went that way I'd have to hate almost everyone I know.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 24, 2013, 06:47:30 AM
There are clearly some problems with certain expressions of Islam but to jump from that to 'fuck muslims' is to forget that these people are our brothers and sisters.
Perhaps, but merely calling them "our brothers and sisters" does not face the reality that islam does pose a threat to freedom, democracy, security and human rights. If they are "our brothers and sisters" then they need to start acting like it.
Whoa dudes, what's up with all the tension? I have an excellent friend (a real friend, not a FB friend) who is a Turkish Muslim. He is about the gentlest dude I have ever met in my life and is always there for me. For myself I refuse to make a blanket judgement of all the people in whatever cult they happen to have been brainwashed by. Lest anyone forget, the Catholic church over the course of time made Adolph Hitler look like the moderator of a bowling league in terms of widespread murder and mayhem. Even though I'm new in here I'm kinda old in the world and have had a bunch of various experiences with people of all sorts.
I mean it's a short jump from Fuck Muslims to Fuck (Insert hated group here) or any other group that I happen to not like at the moment. If people are left alone they generally will return the favor. Maybe if some groups stopped crapping in other groups' yards a lot of the insanity would stop.
Let's not forget history, dudes. This shit didn't just start with 9-11. It's been going on for a while.
QuotePersonally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims
That is not a very dudeist way to go through life!
I know several Muslims with a far more tolerant attitude than you are displaying! If it were up to you then I assume that any Muslim dudes here would be banned!
QuoteBritain is facing that challenge now
Only if you read the daily mail! A couple of examples. Where I live there is a Muslim community made up of Muslims form various nationalities. They integrate well here and don't preach hate or incite violence! In Edinburgh where my sister lives there is a central Mosque which has an attached restaurant which only opens for lunch and serves typical ethnic fare. It's basic, ie. you pay £4.00 and are given a big bowl of whatever is being served that day along with some Arabic bread. The place is packed out everyday with mainly non Muslims! No sign of radicalisation there either!
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186525-d1023923-Reviews-The_Mosque_Kitchen-Edinburgh_Scotland.html (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186525-d1023923-Reviews-The_Mosque_Kitchen-Edinburgh_Scotland.html)
Quoteislam does pose a threat to freedom, democracy, security and human rights.
No more or less than Catholicism does! Africa for instance, where the religion is spreading along with AIDS because of the Churches refusal to back down on condoms. The IRA. And any untold number of atrocities carried out in the name of the Christian God over the last several hundred years.
Only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists and support violence. Yes I'm sure that they would like to convert everyone on the planet to their way of thinking...but then again so would the pope!!
As I said previously. To "hate" all Muslims is very very undude. For all means condemn the murderers and those that support violence but at least condemn all those of whatever nationality and religion that do the same.
Peace.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on April 24, 2013, 09:41:22 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 24, 2013, 06:47:30 AM
There are clearly some problems with certain expressions of Islam but to jump from that to 'fuck muslims' is to forget that these people are our brothers and sisters.
If they are "our brothers and sisters" then they need to start acting like it.
They are acting like it - my friend Sadar Zaman from Pakistan just joined the FB dudeism page. He was the first person to offer to help with 'The little Sisters of Redemption'. Making enemies out of dudely folk just because they happen to be brought up muslim isn't going to help anyone.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 24, 2013, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on April 24, 2013, 09:41:22 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on April 24, 2013, 06:47:30 AM
There are clearly some problems with certain expressions of Islam but to jump from that to 'fuck muslims' is to forget that these people are our brothers and sisters.
If they are "our brothers and sisters" then they need to start acting like it.
They are acting like it - my friend Sadar Zaman from Pakistan just joined the FB dudeism page. He was the first person to offer to help with 'The little Sisters of Redemption'. Making enemies out of dudely folk just because they happen to be brought up muslim isn't going to help anyone.
Plus it's exhausting.
This here thread is stuck in this old duder's head and I ain't real sure how to get it out without taking some brain out with it. It's just got my condition all kinds of fucked up, like a C5 Galaxy overloaded with paraquat just crashed into my fucking mountain. If this hatred and fear mongering shit is Dudeism, then I've been misleading those to whom I've explained that it's truly not a big fucking joke.
I'm going to turn in my rented shoes for now and pop back around after the semis. Later on, brothers.
QuoteIf this hatred and fear mongering shit is Dudeism, then I've been misleading those to whom I've explained that it's truly not a big fucking joke.
I agree. Shouldn't we all just say fuck it, let's go bowling for a while?
Grab a Lane RighteousDude, I'll be with yah innabit.
Peace.
Very undude.
Honestly it breaks my heart to see members of a peaceful philosophy (which I have a little background in before becoming a dudeist) perform such horrible acts. Sadly the 1% of any religion are going to be assholes.
QuoteHonestly it breaks my heart to see members of a peaceful philosophy (which I have a little background in before becoming a dudeist) perform such horrible acts. Sadly the 1% of any religion are going to be assholes.
It upsets me that that any Dudeist can preach hatred.
Must be that 1% you're talking about.
Whoa, dudes, chill for a sec. Grab a J, grab an adult beverage, rub one out, something.
While we may not agree with the blanket "fuck 'em" statement, we shouldn't pounce all over anyone. Why not calmly ask why he said it and not just assume anything about his character?
Quotewe shouldn't pounce all over anyone. Why not calmly ask why he said it and not just assume anything about his character?
I'm not pouncing on any dude!
I'm responding to more than just the
QuoteFUCK muslims
I'm really really disappointed in the intolerance being shown.
In particular I'm responding to
Quotethey are always first to violence, they are always hateful and boasting, and they are liars
and
QuoteGuess you never lost anyone to muslim terrorists. Maybe you're one of them.
The first quote could be a direct quote from many many foreign states about the good old US of A!
The first part of the second quote is disingenuous at best. and the second part down right insulting and very partitioning.
Allow me to explain! I have lost a fair few friends to "Muslims" albeit Muslims fighting for what they believe in: ie. their country! I'll say it again. In Iraq we respected our enemy...in Afghan the same. No one asked us to invade and if they had invaded us we would be doing the same to them! Get some perspective here! All of my military and ex military buddies have respect for the enemy. Grudging at times I admit but none the less we understand where they are coming from.
The second part of that quote automatically excludes any Muslim from becoming a dude and therefore maintains that Dudeism is no better than any other organised religion. ie. totally intolerant!
Ok. I'll be nice and ask why one particular dude. HATES so much. As far as I am concerned hatred has no place in Dudeism and if you hate that much then you're not just Walter your an UNdude. (if that's a word.)
Peace.
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2013, 06:44:21 PM
The first part of the second quote is disingenuous at best. and the second part down right insulting and very partitioning.
I was not insulted. What I am, though, is very seriously considering parting company because I will not be associated with the preaching of hatred. If that's okay here, then I'm so fucking gone that the vacuum in my wake will suck your memory of my user name right out of your head.
Dudes,
I myself dabble in pacifism, and tend to think that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than intolerance (but you know, that's just like... well, you know). It seems to me that uptight thinking of the most extreme variety is the real problem. Extremism of any sort is bound to lead to atrocities, and extremism is something that can emerge from any ethos -- religious, economic, cultural, you name it -- once it's taken too far.
There are two sad ironies, dudes. One of them is that hating a group because you perceive they hate everyone is just a way of legitimizing hatred all around. It doesn't actually do anything, man. The other is that, you know, blanket intolerance of Muslims is no more a reflection of the principles of most Dudeists than... well, than terrorism is a reflection of the principles of most Muslims.
Peace, my dudely brothers and sisters.
When I started this thread I guess it was to show that even Buddhist monks can be undudely at times.
I did not expect that it would throw up some extremely undude like behaviour in our brother/sistership.
I did not expect that the ensuing debate would create a situation in which one of our brethren would wish to disavow himself because of the words of a fellow "dude".
I accept his reservations and I totally understand where he is coming from but do not accept his resignation as a dude because of the words of one fellow minister.
The same as I do not accept that the words of a few Muslim preachers have any bearing on Islaam.
We don't accept preachiness so why should we accept racism, or religionism or ANY fucking ism?
As I said in my original post.
FFS Peace!
Islam, religion of peace?...............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64V09tTIjR4&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64V09tTIjR4&feature=player_embedded)
I currently can't see youtube or any streaming videos...could you give me a synopsis of what you are linking to please.
And whatever the video is DB. It cannot be an answer or reasoned response to this thread surely!?
I was trying to calm things down and keep things dudely, but I guess my attempt wasn't quite what I had hoped. With that in mind, I'm backing out of this or any controversial or hot-button topics from now on.
Later, dudes.
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2013, 10:43:15 AM
QuotePersonally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims
I know several Muslims with a far more tolerant attitude than you are displaying! If it were up to you then I assume that any Muslim dudes here would be banned!
There is no way I would ban a member here for being muslim. Why do you think I would? Doing so would be very undude and undudeist. I am here to help out, clean up after the party and help to keep spammers and trolls out. I am certainly not here to ban anyone for being a muslim dude. A dude can be a muslim, as he or she can be a catholic, a pagan, a momon, a buddhist, an atheists, etc; being muslim does not stop a person from being a dude per se', neither does any religion with perhaps the exception of being a nazi, not sure how you could be a nazi and a dude, but that is an exception to the rule I guess I would say.
I think we judge people by their words and deeds, not by their chosen religious affiliation. As far as I am concerned, any muslim is welcome here as long as he or she abides in peace and respects other dudes and their opinions and feelings.
As for England and the growth of islam in Britain, I was referring to this kind of thing.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5xRmKTD96po (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5xRmKTD96po)
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
I currently can't see youtube or any streaming videos...could you give me a synopsis of what you are linking to please.
It's a Muslim leader in Britain making a strong statement that Islam is not, and never will be, a religion of peace, but rather a religion of the sword. Of course, there are plenty of Muslims who disagree, but what he had to say is also part of popular Islam today. His point of view is shared by many Muslims today.
Well Dudes, this is getting pretty real,
It seems like everyone's trying to prove a point here, and thats cool, that cool... but I really hate to see everyone get all fired up about this. It also seems that there is really no way of proving either point as correct, and I don't think anyone is going to change their minds, no matter which side they're on. Its just a difficult argument to keep rational because we all have biases in the situation (Muslim friends and enemies) and also just because people have been killing each other for similar reasons for all of human history.
I'm just sayin, I don't think this is really going anywhere. Like I said, I don't think anyone's gonna change their minds on the topic. Can we just use that ole rebel shrug on this one?
Quote from: BrotherShamus on April 24, 2013, 10:33:14 PM
Well Dudes, this is getting pretty real,
It seems like everyone's trying to prove a point here, and thats cool, that cool... but I really hate to see everyone get all fired up about this. It also seems that there is really no way of proving either point as correct, and I don't think anyone is going to change their minds, no matter which side they're on. Its just a difficult argument to keep rational because we all have biases in the situation (Muslim friends and enemies) and also just because people have been killing each other for similar reasons for all of human history.
I'm just sayin, I don't think this is really going anywhere. Like I said, I don't think anyone's gonna change their minds on the topic. Can we just use that ole rebel shrug on this one?
One of the tenants of Dudeism, which I find very wise, is to express an opinion, and understand that your opinion, and those of others, while respected, are only like their (or your) opinion, man. That is to say, nothing is fucked here dude, just a few dudes talking about life and current events over a few beers, a few burgers. Nothing to worry about, our troubles are over, dudes, lets get us a lane.
QuoteThere is no way I would ban a member here for being muslim. Why do you think I would?
Whow there dude! The quote isn't your's (unless you wish to associate yourself with it!) It's from Abeidist Dude!
The quote refers go this
QuoteWhoa dudes, did you actually read the story?
It was the fucking MUSLIMS that incited the riot to begin with, and it was the MUSLIMS that beheaded a Buddhist monk which was the first killing that the Burmese monks retaliated for.
Personally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims. And although I cannot condone the killing of innocent people, and I especially cannot abide by the murder of children, good god what were they thinking; I still believe the Burmese are taking a step to stop an even bigger world threat, which is the muslim religion. These people want to fucking kill everyone who isn't muslim, they are always first to violence, they are always hateful and boasting, and they are liars. They openly admit in their own country and to each other, that anyone who is not muslim should be put to death, but the ones here in America or anywhere else in the world always claim "no no, that's the radicals" I'm just a good little muslim", ( you would say the same shit if you were behind enemy lines or surrounded by enemies) They are here in America, and are just evil people, period, boo on muslims, and I for one, am not leaving, I'm gonna drink my coffee, and any muslims can just kiss my glorious white American ass.
Why are you getting het up? Unless you are agreeing with him?
As for the youtube video you posted. I believe it was an American reporter from 2010 and the radical he was interviewing has already been deported! But I'm glad you're continuing to try and radicalise the issue! Even though I can assure you that there is very little racism or fear of an immediate take over of Islamic (or other) fundamentalists here in Britain at the moment!
Thank you for your continued concerned. Please start reading the Telegraph..or maybe the Times. It may inform you better.
Trust me, England is green and pleasant and we just won't stand for that sort of nonsense you know!
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2013, 10:50:11 PM
QuoteThere is no way I would ban a member here for being muslim. Why do you think I would?
Whow there dude! The quote isn't your's (unless you wish to associate yourself with it!)
The quote refers go this QuoteWhoa dudes, did you actually read the story?
It was the fucking MUSLIMS that incited the riot to begin with, and it was the MUSLIMS that beheaded a Buddhist monk which was the first killing that the Burmese monks retaliated for.
Personally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims. And although I cannot condone the killing of innocent people, and I especially cannot abide by the murder of children, good god what were they thinking; I still believe the Burmese are taking a step to stop an even bigger world threat, which is the muslim religion. These people want to fucking kill everyone who isn't muslim, they are always first to violence, they are always hateful and boasting, and they are liars. They openly admit in their own country and to each other, that anyone who is not muslim should be put to death, but the ones here in America or anywhere else in the world always claim "no no, that's the radicals" I'm just a good little muslim", ( you would say the same shit if you were behind enemy lines or surrounded by enemies) They are here in America, and are just evil people, period, boo on muslims, and I for one, am not leaving, I'm gonna drink my coffee, and any muslims can just kiss my glorious white American ass.
Why are you getting het up? Unless you are agreeing with him?
As for the youtube video you posted. I believe it was an American reporter from 2010 and the radical he was interviewing has already been deported! But I'm glad you're continuing to try and radicalise the issue! Even though I can assure you that there is very little racism or fear of an immediate take over of Islamic (or other) fundamentalists here in Britain at the moment!
Thank you for your continued concerned. Please start reading the Telegraph..or maybe the Times. It may inform you better.
Trust me, England is green and pleasant and we just won't stand for that sort of nonsense you know!
RE: "Whow there dude! The quote isn't your's (unless you wish to associate yourself with it!)"
No worries, I was just being clear about that. Nothing is fucked, dude.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on April 24, 2013, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: BrotherShamus on April 24, 2013, 10:33:14 PM
Well Dudes, this is getting pretty real,
It seems like everyone's trying to prove a point here, and thats cool, that cool... but I really hate to see everyone get all fired up about this. It also seems that there is really no way of proving either point as correct, and I don't think anyone is going to change their minds, no matter which side they're on. Its just a difficult argument to keep rational because we all have biases in the situation (Muslim friends and enemies) and also just because people have been killing each other for similar reasons for all of human history.
I'm just sayin, I don't think this is really going anywhere. Like I said, I don't think anyone's gonna change their minds on the topic. Can we just use that ole rebel shrug on this one?
One of the tenants of Dudeism, which I find very wise, is to express an opinion, and understand that your opinion, and those of others, while respected, are only like their (or your) opinion, man. That is to say, nothing is fucked here dude, just a few dudes talking about life and current events over a few beers, a few burgers. Nothing to worry about, our troubles are over, dudes, lets get us a lane.
Ok cool.
I just don't want anyone to get upset. It's a pretty serious topic.
But hey, as long as everyone is cool 8)
And Righteous Dude, don't go please. We need you around
Quote from: BrotherShamus on April 24, 2013, 10:55:21 PM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on April 24, 2013, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: BrotherShamus on April 24, 2013, 10:33:14 PM
Well Dudes, this is getting pretty real,
It seems like everyone's trying to prove a point here, and thats cool, that cool... but I really hate to see everyone get all fired up about this. It also seems that there is really no way of proving either point as correct, and I don't think anyone is going to change their minds, no matter which side they're on. Its just a difficult argument to keep rational because we all have biases in the situation (Muslim friends and enemies) and also just because people have been killing each other for similar reasons for all of human history.
I'm just sayin, I don't think this is really going anywhere. Like I said, I don't think anyone's gonna change their minds on the topic. Can we just use that ole rebel shrug on this one?
One of the tenants of Dudeism, which I find very wise, is to express an opinion, and understand that your opinion, and those of others, while respected, are only like their (or your) opinion, man. That is to say, nothing is fucked here dude, just a few dudes talking about life and current events over a few beers, a few burgers. Nothing to worry about, our troubles are over, dudes, lets get us a lane.
Ok cool.
I just don't want anyone to get upset. It's a pretty serious topic.
But hey, as long as everyone is cool 8)
And Righteous Dude, don't go please. We need you around
One of the tests of Dudeism is to see how we do in discussing important topics. So far, on this chat board, such discussions have gone extremely well in a dude like manner I am happy to say.
I think you have my measure on banning people or censoring posts DB! I'm not in the least in favour of censorship! Remember the issue with "thatdickheaddude", or whatever? ;)
I was trying to express to Abideist Dude that maybe his attitude would lead to banning muslims or blacks or jews or maybe even Scotsmen! (and that at least one of those conditions could fuck me up dude!) :)
I don't understand though why you took that to heart DB? Why would you think for a minute I was having a go at you?
Oh and BrotherShamus, If it gets a bit hot occasionally, treat it like a Scottish bar that you've just walked into. Say fuck all. Watch what people order. Then order the same. When the biggest guy in the bar asks you if you're ok, tell him with a grunt "I'm fine" if he doesn't hit you then all's well and enjoy your evening! :)
;)
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2013, 11:09:43 PM
I think you have my measure on banning people or censoring posts DB! I'm not in the least in favour of censorship! Remember the issue with "thatdickheaddude", or whatever? ;)
I was trying to express to Abideist Dude that maybe his attitude would lead to banning muslims or blacks or jews or maybe even Scotsmen! (and that at least one of those conditions could fuck me up dude!) :)
I don't understand though why you took that to heart DB? Why would you think for a minute I was having a go at you?
Oh and BrotherShamus, If it gets a bit hot occasionally, treat it like a Scottish bar that you've just walked into. Say fuck all. Watch what people order. Then order the same. When the biggest guy in the bar asks you if you're ok, tell him with a grunt "I'm fine" if he doesn't hit you then all's well and enjoy your evening! :)
RE: "I don't understand though why you took that to heart DB? Why would you think for a minute I was having a go at you?"
My bad, dude. I thought you were referring to me. All is well, mang.
Your words:
QuoteI think we judge people by their words and deeds, not by their chosen religious affiliation. As far as I am concerned, any muslim is welcome here as long as he or she abides in peace and respects other dudes and their opinions and feelings.
Then in the words of Abeidist dude
QuotePersonally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims.
and
Quoteany muslims can just kiss my glorious white American ass.
and
QuoteGuess you never lost anyone to muslim terrorists. Maybe you're one of them.
In my eyes these statements are simply not tolerant or abideing or dudeist in any way shape or form.
I wish to distance myself as far away as possible from these utterances as one can get!
I'm a Dudeist priest. I live as best I can a dudeist life. I try to do no harm and I try to abide. I cannot condone these statements and will not be associated with someone who embodies them.
Where do we go from here Dudely Lamma?
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 25, 2013, 12:12:21 AM
Your words:
QuoteI think we judge people by their words and deeds, not by their chosen religious affiliation. As far as I am concerned, any muslim is welcome here as long as he or she abides in peace and respects other dudes and their opinions and feelings.
Then in the words of Abeidist dude QuotePersonally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims.
and Quoteany muslims can just kiss my glorious white American ass.
and QuoteGuess you never lost anyone to muslim terrorists. Maybe you're one of them.
In my eyes these statements are simply not tolerant or abideing or dudeist in any way shape or form.
I wish to distance myself as far away as possible from these utterances as one can get!
I'm a Dudeist priest. I live as best I can a dudeist life. I try to do no harm and I try to abide. I cannot condone these statements and will not be associated with someone who embodies them.
Where do we go from here Dudely Lamma?
Yes, good points perhaps; but we all have some Walter in us, and sometimes people post things venting some anger or frustration that does not really represent their real character or even permanent opinions, so we have to, IMHO, look at a dude's long term comments to be sure we're not being too hasty. We have all posted things we had second thoughts on later.
I see where you're coming from DB but this seems to be a long term commitment from the above poster and something he may have been thinking about for a while.
Lets see what he says in his defense.
Give peace a chance for sure.
Quote from: Caesar dude on April 25, 2013, 12:54:19 AM
I see where you're coming from DB but this seems to be a long term commitment from the above poster and something he may have been thinking about for a while.
Lets see what he says in his defense.
Give peace a chance for sure.
Yep, I agree. Always better to listen than talk. Something we all need to practice I guess. Definitely me!
Damnit, I go away on one mission and the thread I was watching explodes, an I miss it.
'kay picking up from page two, somewhere, all this same shit happened to me when I was a militant atheist, an it gets real tricky if you do not pay attention to nuance. Always avoiding absolute statements, is useful too.
Here's the deal, Islam is a threat, the same as every ideology is a threat, These threats to human flourishing manifest in different ways at different times. Muslims are not a threat, they are people who are as fallible as any other people, people who react to their time and place, based on the ideas they chose to use to deal with their issues.
The thing is, next to nobody follows their faith/ideology to the letter, they are all false observants, that's not the problem, it is a good thing, generally. That is why even though the Bible gives the green light to slavery, Christians are appalled by it, in this time and place. Same goes for Islam, yes the Quaran (sp?, tired and lazy), advocates total domination (they all do, in their own way, looking at you Dudeists too, plus a mirror, go ahead call me on this, I have a lengthy argument I just aint got energy right now to explain), but seeing how there is, for all intents and purposes NO TRUE SCOTTSMEN, Muslims who want to kill and dominate are the same true/non Muslims as those that focus on peace and charity.
If I say "Islam is a wonderful kind faith that wants peace and prosperity for all, that is charitable and wants to dominate the globe and destroy all heathens", I have told no lie. Only when I say all of it can I simply say Islam, but it is totally unskillful to do so. Now, If I say "the Muslim community in Canada is hell bent on world domination and terror", that is a lie, or if I say "Al Quiada is a wonderful group of peaceful charitable people who want love and prosperity for all", that is also a lie.
And yes you can take any general label and do this with it too, change a few words here or there and you're all set.
The problem comes when you go east, and not recognize you have also gone west, or up with out realizing you have gone down as well. Remember your Tao dudes, it is never pure, it is never separate, it is the whole, understanding the whole is how we solve our problems. Avoid talking only of the Yin and not acknowledging the Yang, absolutes are for suckers, and only useful conditionally for a certain time and place. This is being skillful, recognizing the conditions and the time and place.
Quote from: BrotherShamus on April 24, 2013, 10:55:21 PM
And Righteous Dude, don't go please. We need you around
I appreciate that, man, but as the gatekeeper of my consciousness I have to respect myself enough to decide wisely what gets in and what doesn't. If what's in this thread is an indication of what's acceptable and so can be expected here, then I'll just put the time I would have spent here into those other forums where people speak of love and interact with compassion and respect. It's so easy a decision to make that it makes itself if a dude has good sense enough to know when to say fuck it.
I've seen my share and yours, too, of fear, anger, and hatred in my lifetime. I was born into an environment that was ruled by that shit, and I've just got no more tolerance for it. There is no place for it in my life. If I have to leave some web forum or other to put a stop to it before it affects me, then that's the least drastic step I've ever had to take to accomplish that end.
I want to see where this thread goes, at least I think I do, so I'm not going anywhere just yet. Maybe soon, maybe not for years to come. If I'm to end up splitting I'm going to hope that I'm wise enough to do it while I can still reflect upon my time here as something that has enriched my life, as I do now -- ain't no sense making a bad marriage out of it.
Try being more dispassionate.
Quote?Let your ears hear whatever they want to hear; let your eyes see whatever they want to see; let your mind think whatever it wants to think; let your lungs breathe in their own rhythm. Do not expect any special result, for in this wordless and idealess state, where can there be past or future, and where any notion of purpose? Stop, look, and listen??
Alan Watts, Tao: The Watercourse Way, 1975, chapter 2, p. 36
Just a suggestion, no big.
RD, I'm new here and may not have a right to say this but I am comforted by your reaction to what I perceived as hate being expressed in this thread. For that reason I hope sincerely that you decide to stay with this forum. You bring what I would call a calm voice of reason to a discussion that starts heading south. That in itself can help to resolve some small problems before they become big problems.
OK, not that I don't hate because I do. My strategy is simple, though. It involves getting to know an individual member of some group (for the purpose of this thread I'll use Muslims) and learning things about that person that I find so disgusting or disheartening that I have no fucking choice but to hate them. But I prefer to hate them as an individual and I try to address them, in terms of my hatred, as individuals. Like, for instance, rather than say "FUCK MUSLIMS" what I might say is "FUCK THAT PEDERAST COCKSUCKER HASAAN" who, coincidentally happens to be a Muslim, a cocksucker, and a pederast. What I'm saying is that I don't hate Hasaan because he's a Muslim, I hate him because he's a cocksucker and a pederast ("eight year olds, dude"). In this way not only do I avoid looking like an ignoramus for collectively hating an entire group of people, most of whom I will never meet, but I actually find a good reason to hate someone as an individual so I have some real understanding of the whys and wherefores of my hatred. Then my hatred is pure and honest and is not based upon old wives' tales or mad suspicion.
So again, RD, I hope you'll consider staying on.
More skillful.
But why do you hate pederasts? What is about pederasts that you hate?
These questions are for academic purposes, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the questioner.
When there is a consistent vibe of hate, I wouldn't want to stick around, which is why I wouldn't go to Klan meetings. But the occasional expression of negative vibes towards other dudes gives us a chance to look at what's going down; and that, I believe, is a good thing. My assumption is that Abideist is a perfectly groovy dude suffering from temporary uptightness. Nothing is fundamentally fucked. We learn from eachother. Nobody gets it right all the time. As far as I'm concerned Abideist is welcome round my private residence to chat over an oat soda any time - all dudes are. The words 'I love you man, but do you have to be such an asshole' come to mind. Peace dudes!
That is skillful.
Did the Dude abandon Walter, was Walter wrong, or just an asshole?
Quote from: revgms on April 25, 2013, 01:50:31 PM
Did the Dude abandon Walter, was Walter wrong, or just an asshole?
Now there's an interestin' question. Being from the place and time that just naturally produced dudes, my reference for what is dudely has nothing to do with the movie. My wife, from the same place and time (and who was my high school sweetheart) so has the same point of reference, remarks every time we watch the flick that there's just no way a real life dude and a guy like Walter would hang out. Neither would want to.
Myself, I'd abandon Walter. The kid who was my best friend starting the first day of first grade, after his family moved into the neighborhood during the previous summer, became a Walter. He was (became) a real authoritarian neo-fascist asshole, and just like Walter was all hung up on a woman he couldn't keep -- she was a lesbian who only fucked him when she wanted to make her current girlfriend jealous, and sure enough he knocked her up. Anyway, that fuckin' guy was a sneaky thieving fucker just like Walter, too, quick to rationalize that no one would really be hurt if he nicked this or that. The neo-fascist bastard implicated me in a crime he and another guy did without my knowledge, in much the same way that Walter lept from the Dude's car with an Uzi, and things being what they were in my life at that time I plead guilty only because it was far cheaper than lawyering up. Lots of other shit like that went down (though without the pigs rousting me for it), and later I would find that he'd ripped me off at a time when I could least afford it. The magnanimous son of a bitch even helped me out by loaning me a little of what had been
my own money so I could eat until payday, but I was still left begging my friends just to get by.
Anyway, when it became obvious that my Walter-like friend was irredeemably fucked up and would always bring trouble, I unilaterally made it a limited contact acquaintance. We had history from before he turned into a neo-fascist asshole so we kept in touch, but infrequently. It was coincidentally during the time setting of TBL (September '91) that I became aware that he was the one who'd ripped me off and left me begging many years earlier, and I counseled him that if he stayed far away from me he'd avoid a bloodletting.
Neo-fascists like fucking Walter do not have friends. They have convenient acquaintances who fit into their entirely self-centered lives. This dude has not allowed that sort into his life for a long, long time and my old dudely friends from way back when are all the same way. Life's just too fucking short, man, to eat other people's shit. If you've got a Walter in your life and you don't get rid of him, then you're just volunteering to be force fed.
Just curiously, are you sure he was a Walter and not a nihilist/Big Lebowski? I go by the Team America dicks, pussies and assholes analogy, Dude, smokey and a few others are pussies, Walter is a dick, but the Big Lebowski and the nihilists are assholes.
For the unfamiliar, it goes something like this: pussies are the ones who are like the Dude and just want to chill and have everyone get along, dicks have a hard time with that and are always looking for something to fuck, they fuck pussies all the time, but they love their pussies, they are just not good at it. But sometimes there are assholes, and pussies are helpless against assholes, assholes don't love they just want to shit on everything, and the only way to stop them is to let the dicks fuck those assholes.
I have no problem hanging with dicks or pussies, but fuck the assholes. I still have quite a few biker friends, and it gets weird for me at times, once I spent two days at a Zen Peacemakers symposium, then the next day I was a biker party, talk about book ending your weekend.
http://youtu.be/2cV_q-mVAAA (http://youtu.be/2cV_q-mVAAA)
Quote from: revgms on April 25, 2013, 03:37:16 PM
pussies are the ones who are like the Dude and just want to chill and have everyone get along, dicks have a hard time with that and are always looking for something to fuck, they fuck pussies all the time, but they love their pussies, they are just not good at it. But sometimes there are assholes, and pussies are helpless against assholes, assholes don't love they just want to shit on everything, and the only way to stop them is to let the dicks fuck those assholes.
I have no problem hanging with dicks or pussies, but fuck the assholes. I still have quite a few biker friends, and it gets weird for me at times, once I spent two days at a Zen Peacemakers symposium, then the next day I was a biker party, talk about book ending your weekend.
http://youtu.be/2cV_q-mVAAA (http://youtu.be/2cV_q-mVAAA)
It's like Freud just dropped 8 tabs of acid :)
Quote from: revgms on April 25, 2013, 03:37:16 PM
Just curiously, are you sure he was a Walter and not a nihilist/Big Lebowski?
That neo-fascist was and likely still is very much a Walter. Not a converted Jew but a Jack Mormon, as was his lesbian whom he met at a Mormon summer camp. He was a gun nut, but his preferred carry was the Model 57 .41 Magnum rather than Walter's 1911 .45. By the time I evicted him from my life, he was a ten or eleven year Navy veteran who blew the Navy off when they wanted to take away his cushy interior dry land gig and put him back on a ship, but he always wore his dipshit memorabilia. He must have had a case of Kitty Hawk and Vinson caps, and was one of those dipshits who made sure everyone knew he was a vet. Had US flags and Navy shit plastered on everything. He was loud and argumentative, always fucking argumentative, always trying to ram his opinions down people's throats. If you agreed with the guy, actually no shit agreed with him, he'd switch up his opinion to something outrageous just to have something to push into your face.
I bumbled into the son of a bitch online several years ago, probably '98 or '99, and he was going around to not-conservative forums and chat rooms picking fights with people just for the fuck of it. He had no reason to connect my screen name with my identity, and I just lurked anyway in order to avoid inviting trouble back into my life. 900 miles might not have been quite far enough away... He rode 400 miles to get himself invited to fuck off in '91 so I wasn't taking any chances. He had my parents' phone number and they'd have cheerily told him right where to pay a surprise visit if he'd asked.
I had a run-in with some Hessians once... they were an interesting bunch. Very aggressive but not real good at it. I just ride my Wing and let that sort be. 8)
Yeah I dunno, but your "friend" sounds like a total tool. Bet he ended up at Colbert Nation at some point and I banned him, loved using the ban hammer on those asshats.
edit: My dad used to ride a Wing, full time year round, in Maine.
Quote from: revgms on April 25, 2013, 05:14:08 PM
Bet he ended up at Colbert Nation at some point and I banned him, loved using the ban hammer on those asshats.
Knowing that guy, it's pretty certain. If you ever had a user whose pseudonym was some variation on Mister Argument there was some chance that it was him. That's what he was using, in several variants, when I bumbled into him.
Quote from: revgms on April 25, 2013, 05:14:08 PM
My dad used to ride a Wing, full time year round, in Maine.
Now that's some kind of hard core! I'd never even consider two wheels on roads that are potentially snow packed/icy. Rain I don't mind so much with the rain suit on and the windshield in front, but the serious slickeries would scare me so badly that the butt pucker would bite chunks out of the saddle.
My brother would fall asleep on the back, so my dad started bungy cording him to the bike.
Quote from: revgms on April 25, 2013, 08:55:06 PM
My brother would fall asleep on the back, so my dad started bungy cording him to the bike.
My second wife used to nap on the back all the time, but the first time freaked her right the fuck out and for an instant after she woke with a start I was worried that she'd gone crazy and was throwing me off the bike. It was late at night and I had my backrest reclined and my feet out on the highway pegs, just running along in the 82MPH sweet spot listening to the tunes, then all of a sudden her left hand shot past my head and the right was shoving on my shoulder. She couldn't have jumped off of the damn bike if she'd wanted to, so falling off wasn't even a concern -- with me in front, the trunk behind, and folding armrests on both sides the most harm she could do would be to wake up with a crick in her neck.
After a while it became her habit on road trips to take a siesta after lunch. ;D
Okay. I've read enough.
Forgive my previous modern parlance, but when did I say I hate muslims?
I DID NOT, I love everyone equally. Let me apologize sincerely, I am sorry for putting so much negative energy out there, I have had a rough time with tolerating the ignorance of religious groups, it has snaked it's way into hearts and minds of most people I know and care about in one way or another, their choice or against their will. I am also a bit heavy on my walter side some times, and I wanted to correct the angst against Buddhists for being blamed for the riot. Additionally, when I wrote 'fuck muslims' it wasn't any different than me saying 'fucking nihilist' , I'll try and justify that statement with the common knowledge that the majority of muslim groups do CURRENTLY in our Modern times, wish jihad and death on all non believers. So that includes dudeists. So really, the only people that want dudes dead, are muslims.
and fuck that! That's not cool dudes. So I'm sorry I lit a fire under yalls asses, and spoke out with my bad American self. It was wrong to go that far and include every muslim in that statement. I should have said. "Fuck THOSE fucking muslims".
as far as your muslim friend joining dudeism, I'm glad he is now a dude And im sorry for presuming you might be muslim yourself RicheousDude.
Maybe someday I can forgive and forget all the things I've seen and heard about that Islamic culture has effected, and don't think for a second that I believe it's purely one sided. I know these evil acts come out of our own governments, and from all religions as well. I'm fully aware of the horrible nature that religion can be, and still is. That is why I became a dudeist. I am a spiritual person, and I have a mind of my own and a mouth that sometimes lets out too much information.
However, do not misunderstand me. I've finished my coffee.
Nothing is fucked here, dude, nothing is fucked. 8)
Abeidist:
QuoteI'll try and justify that statement with the common knowledge that the majority of muslim groups do CURRENTLY in our Modern times, wish jihad and death on all non believers.
So nothing has changed!
This is your view. That the MAJORITY of Muslims wish Jihad and death on all non believers!
Nuff said!
You clearly have not understood the dudeist message and are still harbouring very undudely thoughts to anyone of the Muslim faith. I thought you were better than that.
I have two words. Fuck you.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 05, 2013, 07:17:22 PM
I have two words.
A feller much wiser'n myself once said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig". 8)
Quote from: RighteousDude on May 05, 2013, 07:34:26 PM
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 05, 2013, 07:17:22 PM
I have two words.
A feller much wiser'n myself once said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig". 8)
8)
There is a lot to be said for that statement! I am going to use it at the very next opportunity! :)
Peace
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 05, 2013, 05:26:50 AM
Nothing is fucked here, dude, nothing is fucked. 8)
Yes it is DB yes it is!
One of our dudely community thinks that it is "common knowledge" that the majority of Muslim groups wish Jihad and death on all non believers!
I'd like to see some citations for this: "common knowledge" I'd like to see some compassion for fellow human beings. I'd like to see a retraction of his statement at the very least!
I'd like to see some form of leadership from our dudely Lama or the moderators on this board.
I'd like to believe that you MISread Abideist's post and just said "nothing is fucked" because you didn't read it properly.
I'd like to see someone else other than just me and Righteous dude with the same opinion. That this out and out racism and xenophobia just should should not be allowed to stand on this site.
I seriously want some answers to the above and if I don't get them then I will be rethinking my whole position on Dudeism.
Peace.
Ah c'mon Dudes I thought we were past this.
Now, I don't quite agree with Abideist's sentiment, but I don't think a bunch of guys dropping exclamation points on a forum is gonna change his mind. As Dudes we must learn to abide many things, and this guy's opinion is just one of those things. And although I think it's wise to keep those kinds of opinions to yourself, I also think that you shouldn't abandon Dudeism just because of this one guy.
I hate to sound like I'm tolerating intolerance, but Dudeism teaches us how to deal with these kind of interactions in a way that doesn't over-involve ourselves.
Peace
Quote from: BrotherShamus on May 05, 2013, 10:44:01 PM
Ah c'mon Dudes I thought we were past this.
Now, I don't quite agree with Abideist's sentiment, but I don't think a bunch of guys dropping exclamation points on a forum is gonna change his mind. As Dudes we must learn to abide many things, and this guy's opinion is just one of those things. And although I think it's wise to keep those kinds of opinions to yourself, I also think that you shouldn't abandon Dudeism just because of this one guy.
I hate to sound like I'm tolerating intolerance, but Dudeism teaches us how to deal with these kind of interactions in a way that doesn't over-involve ourselves.
Peace
That's exactly what you are doing: Tolerating intolerance.
It's what the Catholic church does with paedophilia. If no one stands against blatant hatred and intolerance then where the fuck does that leave us as a so called peaceful and abiding religion?
I had sort of hoped that Abideist's response would have been a little more contrite and rather less blatant about his clear views.
I don't want to change his mind if that is his point of view. That's his prerogative. I just refuse to be associated with him and any organisation that allows it.
If his statement was about coloured people or jews or gays then maybe there would be more reaction.
Intolerance cannot and should not be condoned here of all places.
I do not think I am wrong!
The reason we should tolerate intolerance is so that we can call it out and explain why it is wrong or right. There are things we should tolerate and things we shouldn't tolerate. Ideally an open forum would bring new shit to light and make everyone more clear on what the issue is. Sadly, this isn't always the case - as the comments section of any far left or far right news site will attest to.
For now, this forum seems to be one of the rare places on the 'Net in which discussions seem to end up more or less at a higher level by the end of it. We're only going to ban people if they're really fucking up the flow of dialogue or being threatening. Saying you hate a group of people isn't a threat - it's just an impolite opinion, and one which most of you guys have shown patiently to be the result of not considering deeply enough the opinion before expressing it. So Kudos and Dudos to all of you.
There has been a lot of Muslim bashing on this forum. Let's remember that there are plenty of Muslim-raised Dudeists out there who will be turned off to Dudeism by this. Let's try and be cool about our criticisms, not to censor them but just so they don't have an alienating effect. M'kay?
Well I'm calling it!
I don't like it. I don't think it's appropriate and I don't think it's at all dudeist.
If someone started spouting racist hatred such as " that the majority of black people fuck monkeys. Or "It is common knowledge that the majority of Jews should be burned because they eat babies" or " It is common knowledge that the majority of Scottish people would sell their families into slavery"
Would that be Tolerated!??
I've never talked about banning anyone! I have never indicated that! I am asking for clarification on what is and what is not considered "Dudeist"
I'm saying that I cannot and will not associate myself with a religion that wishes peace and harmony but has an "anything goes policy".
I guess what you are saying is paedophiles, despots and serial killers can all be dudes as long as they don't rock the boat too much and we give them space?
Quote from: forumdude on May 06, 2013, 12:15:41 AM
The reason we should tolerate intolerance is { ... }
So how does one go about resigning his ordination? I will not be associated with this shit.
Just a thought; it is possible that some dudes feel a bit free to bash Muslims here in the forum because there is some Muslim (or perhaps Arab) bashing in the Big Lebowski; that is to say Walter calling them "camel fuckers...a bunch of fig-eaters with towels on their heads tryin' to find reverse on a Soviet tank. This is not a worthy--"
It has to be remembered the Coen brothers are Jewish and might be perhaps taking some liberty in their movie to subtlety take a shot or two at Arabs and Muslims. But, having said that; they also take a shot or two at their own culture and religion by making the somewhat wacko Walter, a fanatical Jewish convert from Catholicism, rant and rave about "Shomer fucking Shabbos!"and his comical quote "Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax," not to mention Walter's monologue about the Rambam while walking out to the Dude's burnt out car. This might be a reason that dudes feel a bit free to vent some anger and frustration over the doings of some members of Islam.
Am I wrong, or just an asshole?
IMHO 8)
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 06, 2013, 01:18:38 AM
Am I wrong, or just an asshole?
For what it's worth, you're neither. But the proof is in the actions, and this has been proven to be a movie cult curio shop rather than an ethos, worldview, or religion. It doesn't fucking stand for anything at all, man. Kinda sucks that I deluded myself that it did.
Oh well. Live and learn.
Maybe I'll see you Dudes around in some other part of the internet. Be well!
QuoteAm I wrong, or just an asshole?
You're being an asshole to be fair DB
This is not the movie. This is a forum where someone is expressing blatant racism. and you are now not only tolerating it but making up excuses.
Oliver has also come out with the most banal fucking statement I've ever come across! Tolerate intolerance! What the fuck is that about!?
Nah. Not convinced and seriously not happy.
Righteous Dude has officially de ordained. Anyone wishing to leave is welcome. They can even go start their own Dudeist church and fill it with whatever information they like.
Sorry if you think that my statement was banal, Caesar. It seems to me you're taking a knee-jerk response.
I hate to see people get worked up over semantics. It's one of the most annoying things about human communication. Words are not hard objects and can have many shades of meaning.
When I say we should tolerate intolerance I only mean that we should allow certain degrees of it on the forum so that it can engender conversation. And beating someone down with anger and emotion instead of trying first to reason with them is a form of intolerance itself. (I'm sure some would think that a "banal" statement as well.) It's only when people refuse to play by the rules of discourse and rhetoric (trying to "win" over trying to synthesize or illuminate) that we should refuse to tolerate it because then it becomes a question of intellectual territory and will. That's not what we're here for.
Dudeism stands for reason over emotion. It also stands for skepticism over idealism. It stands for a lot of things. Those that don't "get it" are welcome to leave. No hard feelings. To be honest I've felt that a certain amount of unwelcome aggression and extremism has taken over the forum lately. I scolded Righteous Dude recently for being too aggressive. Maybe this just wasn't the right place for him. And that's cool. That's cool.
Caesar, just saw your "two words" to Abideist. Very classy.
Pot calling the kettle un-Dude? Come on, man. The guy went and (sort of) apologized and you come back with that?
I really don't get people sometimes. Oh well. Maybe I should de-ordain as well.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 06, 2013, 01:18:38 AM
Just a thought; it is possible that some dudes feel a bit free to bash Muslims here in the forum because there is some Muslim (or perhaps Arab) bashing in the Big Lebowski; that is to say Walter calling them "camel fuckers...a bunch of fig-eaters with towels on their heads tryin' to find reverse on a Soviet tank. This is not a worthy--"
It has to be remembered the Coen brothers are Jewish and might be perhaps taking some liberty in their movie to subtlety take a shot or two at Arabs and Muslims. But, having said that; they also take a shot or two at their own culture and religion by making the somewhat wacko Walter, a fanatical Jewish convert from Catholicism, rant and rave about "Shomer fucking Shabbos!"and his comical quote "Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax," not to mention Walter's monologue about the Rambam while walking out to the Dude's burnt out car. This might be a reason that dudes feel a bit free to vent some anger and frustration over the doings of some members of Islam.
Am I wrong, or just an asshole?
IMHO 8)
I think it's unfortunate that people use the towel head and camel fucker lines injudiciously. Same with "fucking Germans, fucking Nazis." People often don't realize the context and are offended. But I guess that's bound to happen. Vagina.
Let's take your reply one step at a time Forum Dude.
QuoteIt seems to me you're taking a knee-jerk response.
Not at all. I first posted my initial reaction to Abideist nearly two weeks ago. I've been waiting to see what reaction if any it would garner from yourself or the mods or indeed Abideist. I've had plenty of time to ponder.
Semantics you say? Well semantics is what the written word is about. We can't use body language or tone or inflection in the written word so forgive me if I've missed something but I don't think I've got the phrase
QuoteI'll try and justify that statement with the common knowledge that the majority of muslim groups do CURRENTLY in our Modern times, wish jihad and death on all non believers.
wrong. I don't think I've misunderstood a blatant piece of racist language, I don't think I've misconstrued an absolute statement for a generalisation. I think I can see when someone is calling a spade a spade or a nigger a nigger perchance?
QuoteWhen I say we should tolerate intolerance I only mean that we should allow certain degrees of it on the forum so that it can engender conversation.
I see where you are going with that but the opportunity for that conversation came and went...Abideist then compounded his beliefs. (and actually I think to degree that statement is pretty much bullshit anyhow. I mean where do you draw the line? How much hatred do you allow to be spouted before you actually take a stand against it?
If I was in a room with someone who spouted that nonsense then I would immediately take him to task and if that didn't work, walk away and never associate with him again! What is the difference here? If the person said that at work and it was reported I guarantee that HR would fire him on the spot!
QuoteDudeism stands for reason over emotion.
Really? So where's the reasoning behind allowing someone to pretend they are a dude and abiding yet knowing full they are neither being dude like or abideing and worse not allowing a whole race to abide?
As I said before. I'm not convinced and I'm not impressed. I do not think for a second that allowing bigotry, intolerance and hatred into dudeism (even it is for the purpose of engendering conversation) can be the right way forward.
As an aside: I note that the Pope today spoke out against child abuse and poverty, what was noticeable by it's absence was any apology or recognition for his church's past efforts in this regards.
Are we to go the same way? Allow as many transgressions as you like as long as we discuss it and debate then we can hold those negative racist anti-isms and still call our selves dudes?
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 06, 2013, 12:43:54 AM
Well I'm calling it!
I don't like it. I don't think it's appropriate and I don't think it's at all dudeist.
If someone started spouting racist hatred such as " that the majority of black people fuck monkeys. Or "It is common knowledge that the majority of Jews should be burned because they eat babies" or " It is common knowledge that the majority of Scottish people would sell their families into slavery"
Would that be Tolerated!??
I've never talked about banning anyone! I have never indicated that! I am asking for clarification on what is and what is not considered "Dudeist"
I'm saying that I cannot and will not associate myself with a religion that wishes peace and harmony but has an "anything goes policy".
I guess what you are saying is paedophiles, despots and serial killers can all be dudes as long as they don't rock the boat too much and we give them space?
Caesar, maybe you thought I was replying to this post, which I didn't see. No, Dudeism doesn't want support assholiosity, obviously. I thought you were referring to the forum (which is why I brought up the issue of banning), which is open and should not be censored unless people become truly disruptive.
Dudeism doesn't have an "anything goes" policy. But it does have a policy not to be too hasty to judge or too unforgiving or self-righteous or aggressive. I don't like what Abideist had to say and I think he hasn't really thought through his point of view or perhaps doesn't have much experience with muslims. But I appreciated that most people on the forum seemed willing to engage him in dialogue. And I think that he learned something from it.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 06, 2013, 02:20:18 AM
Let's take your reply one step at a time Forum Dude.
QuoteIt seems to me you're taking a knee-jerk response.
Not at all. I first posted my initial reaction to Abideist nearly two weeks ago. I've been waiting to see what reaction if any it would garner from yourself or the mods or indeed Abideist. I've had plenty of time to ponder.
Semantics you say? Well semantics is what the written word is about. We can't use body language or tone or inflection in the written word so forgive me if I've missed something but I don't think I've got the phrase QuoteI'll try and justify that statement with the common knowledge that the majority of muslim groups do CURRENTLY in our Modern times, wish jihad and death on all non believers.
wrong. I don't think I've misunderstood a blatant piece of racist language, I don't think I've misconstrued an absolute statement for a generalisation. I think I can see when someone is calling a spade a spade or a nigger a nigger perchance?
QuoteWhen I say we should tolerate intolerance I only mean that we should allow certain degrees of it on the forum so that it can engender conversation.
I see where you are going with that but the opportunity for that conversation came and went...Abideist then compounded his beliefs. (and actually I think to degree that statement is pretty much bullshit anyhow. I mean where do you draw the line? How much hatred do you allow to be spouted before you actually take a stand against it?
If I was in a room with someone who spouted that nonsense then I would immediately take him to task and if that didn't work, walk away and never associate with him again! What is the difference here? If the person said that at work and it was reported I guarantee that HR would fire him on the spot!
QuoteDudeism stands for reason over emotion.
Really? So where's the reasoning behind allowing someone to pretend they are a dude and abiding yet knowing full they are neither being dude like or abideing and worse not allowing a whole race to abide?
As I said before. I'm not convinced and I'm not impressed. I do not think for a second that allowing bigotry, intolerance and hatred into dudeism (even it is for the purpose of engendering conversation) can be the right way forward.
As an aside: I note that the Pope today spoke out against child abuse and poverty, what was noticeable by it's absence was any apology or recognition for his church's past efforts in this regards.
Are we to go the same way? Allow as many transgressions as you like as long as we discuss it and debate then we can hold those negative racist anti-isms and still call our selves dudes?
I find that word "racism" so tiresome and hollow. Abideist isn't necessarily racist. He's just wrong, misinformed, brainwashed by the US media, etc. (my opinion, Abideist. I just think you haven't investigated the issue thoroughly)
When we bring down the hammer word of "racism" we're just being racist against racists. You're basically saying this guy is such a piece of shit that he doesn't deserve our patience.
Nowadays most racists aren't "racist" in the sense that they used to be (in slave-era US or colonial-era UK, for instance). Everyone knows that people are equal in potential. When people make blanket statements about other people these days they're making generalizations about their culture. And we should be allowed to do that, provided we have the facts straight. Otherwise how can we criticize fanatical extremists? Are we being "racist" to Al Qaida by saying they want to kill us? Maybe some of them don't, just want the US out of Palestine. Surely we shouldn't paint them with the same brush! Or are we being "racist" when we say that U.S. Evangelicals are ignorant of the basic principles of science? Surely there are many born again physicists who know that the world could not possibly be created in seven days and Jesusy biologists who know that there is a good chance that evolution is correct. We shouldn't lump them all together! Right?
The point is that generalizations are a pain in the ass, but they can sometimes be true but it's easy to be wrong about them. That doesn't mean someone is racist, only that they might be intellectually lazy or misled when confronted by a teeming mass of information that is hard to sift through
That charge of "racism" is useless. Attack someone on their principles, their arguments, their reasoning. Saying fuck you to them achieves nothing.
Your riposte to my statement about "reason" made no sense at all to me. If someone is undude then it's a failure of their reason and we should use reason to reason with them, reasonably. People can be unreasonable without realizing it. That's what community is for, and what a disciplined mind is for. To straighten out the kinks.
Again, this may have been a misunderstanding perpetrated in no small part by me thinking you were referring to what is allowed in the forum when you meant what is considered "Dudeist." To reiterate - Dudeism is in no way supportive of making incorrect generalizations about a group of people in an aggressive way. What was primarily unDude about his statement was that it was aggressive. Just as what was undude in your telling him "fuck you" after he (sort of) apologized.
You say that Abideist is just misinformed: Did you read this:
QuoteQuote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2013, 10:43:15 AM
QuotePersonally, and I may be shunned by my fellow dudes for saying this, but FUCK muslims
That is not a very dudeist way to go through life!
I know several Muslims with a far more tolerant attitude than you are displaying! If it were up to you then I assume that any Muslim dudes here would be banned!
QuoteBritain is facing that challenge now
Only if you read the daily mail! A couple of examples. Where I live there is a Muslim community made up of Muslims form various nationalities. They integrate well here and don't preach hate or incite violence! In Edinburgh where my sister lives there is a central Mosque which has an attached restaurant which only opens for lunch and serves typical ethnic fare. It's basic, ie. you pay £4.00 and are given a big bowl of whatever is being served that day along with some Arabic bread. The place is packed out everyday with mainly non Muslims! No sign of radicalisation there either!
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186525-d1023923-Reviews-The_Mosque_Kitchen-Edinburgh_Scotland.html (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186525-d1023923-Reviews-The_Mosque_Kitchen-Edinburgh_Scotland.html)
Quoteislam does pose a threat to freedom, democracy, security and human rights.
No more or less than Catholicism does! Africa for instance, where the religion is spreading along with AIDS because of the Churches refusal to back down on condoms. The IRA. And any untold number of atrocities carried out in the name of the Christian God over the last several hundred years.
Only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists and support violence. Yes I'm sure that they would like to convert everyone on the planet to their way of thinking...but then again so would the pope!!
As I said previously. To "hate" all Muslims is very very undude. For all means condemn the murderers and those that support violence but at least condemn all those of whatever nationality and religion that do the same.
Peace.
I did my best to inform him or at least try and get him to understand a different viewpoint. He came out with what I could never ever construe as something to try and make things better. Hence My "fuck you" statment. Born of frustration more than anything else!
I have a no time been discussing the forum or forum rules or banning people or warnings etc. So I don't quite know where that is coming from.
I am trying to get to grips with a Dude who reckons he abides but clearly doesn't because he has so much hatred within him.
You may not like the word racism and yes I do understand where you're coming from with it. However sometimes the cap fits.
:o
I may have missed some of the stuff Abideist posted - I skimmed over the thread. But to suggest that Islamic immigrants and European traditionalists are living in harmony is a bit disingenuous.
There is a clash of culture occurring all over the continent which causes some friction (the chador, women's rights, not learning the language, abuse of social services) - and not just with Islam but with Eastern European immigrants as well. It's bound to happen. Eventually it will get ironed out. And then there will be new conflicts. This shit has been going on since the dawn of civilization.
I'm a fan of Sam Harris, but I can see how his ideas about Islam can be inflammatory. Still, they're not racist. We should be allowed to discuss things like this without being considered racist. It's no different than hippies and rednecks clashing during marches on Washington or backpackers taking up all the free tables at London Starbucks or chavs playing their music too loud on boomboxes next to a church. Just a question of scale.
Still, I do see that you were extremely patient with Abideist up to a point. And Dudos for that. Man, these extra long threads can be hard to navigate if you come late to the party.
Quote from: forumdude on May 06, 2013, 02:07:18 AM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 06, 2013, 01:18:38 AM
Just a thought; it is possible that some dudes feel a bit free to bash Muslims here in the forum because there is some Muslim (or perhaps Arab) bashing in the Big Lebowski; that is to say Walter calling them "camel fuckers...a bunch of fig-eaters with towels on their heads tryin' to find reverse on a Soviet tank. This is not a worthy--"
It has to be remembered the Coen brothers are Jewish and might be perhaps taking some liberty in their movie to subtlety take a shot or two at Arabs and Muslims. But, having said that; they also take a shot or two at their own culture and religion by making the somewhat wacko Walter, a fanatical Jewish convert from Catholicism, rant and rave about "Shomer fucking Shabbos!"and his comical quote "Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax," not to mention Walter's monologue about the Rambam while walking out to the Dude's burnt out car. This might be a reason that dudes feel a bit free to vent some anger and frustration over the doings of some members of Islam.
Am I wrong, or just an asshole?
IMHO 8)
I think it's unfortunate that people use the towel head and camel fucker lines injudiciously. Same with "fucking Germans, fucking Nazis." People often don't realize the context and are offended. But I guess that's bound to happen. Vagina.
I agree, and would add...hey dudes, its only a movie, a great one, but a movie none the less. Lets keep a firm grip on reality and do some clear thinking as Dudists.
I'm not suggesting that everything his peace and harmony far from it. I am saying that it's not as bad as the daily mail would have it!
And not that bad in my personal experience.
I'm still a bit wary of Irish folks ffs! That's because of years of conditioning and having to be alert in pubs. But I don't HATE them!
You're a farang living in Thailand. How are those cultural differences going? The abject poverty of some of the Thais compared to your comparative wealth? ALL Thais must hate you for that! That is disingenuous! But nonsense, of course they don't but some will for sure.
I'll agree to disagree then and call Abideist "uninformed" That's ok as long as he willing to become a little more enlightened and at least concede that perhaps some of the Muslims that he detests wish him no ill will.
I still feel that statements like he made have no place coming from a dude's mouth/pen/keyboard!
Peace
Pizza be upon you, Caesar Dude.
QuotePizza be upon you, Caesar Dude.
Damned good idea Oliver! Domino's will deliver within 30 minutes I believe! (probably some Muslim dude on a bike!)
Take it easy dude.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 06, 2013, 03:41:45 AM
QuotePizza be upon you, Caesar Dude.
Damned good idea Oliver! Domino's will deliver within 30 minutes I believe! (probably some Muslim dude on a bike!)
Take it easy dude.
Ha ha. Right you are CD. Only in the States it's usually a Latino and in Thailand it's usually a Burmese or a Lao person (who probably licked my pizza, just as I sometimes did to people who didn't tip me, when I was a pizza delivery guy. Ha ha.)
Oh one thing I wanted to add but forgot - that anything in the Daily Mail is obviously not to be trusted. This is a funny article calling them out for their calculated fraud:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-easy-ways-to-spot-b.s.-news-story-internet/ (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-easy-ways-to-spot-b.s.-news-story-internet/)
Hey Caeser dude,
I'm with you and anyone else who thinks that the anti-Muslim comments that have been made are coming from a short-sighted, uninformed, and shallow way of thinking about the world and people in it. I think I even posted something a while back about how this kind of thinking is self-defeating. I'm also appreciative of you and others drawing a line in the proverbial sand, saying that this aggression will not stand.
But Dude, I'm not sure what it is you want to happen. All of us jumping on the bandwagon probably won't do much -- it will strengthen this guy's resolve and push his views to a more extreme place. To be honest, I was contented not to fuel the fire, and to let a short-sighted comment like this fall on deaf ears. At the end of the day, people who make comments like this need to get outside of their shells, meet people, and realize that judging the worth of a group of people based upon the actions of an extreme few is damaging to everyone involved.
It sounds like you want this guy to hand in his Dude card or something. I don't know if that's the solution. I think part of being a dudeist is realizing that we're all works in progress, man. We can disagree completely with what this guy's saying and also appreciate that his isn't the final word on anything. Hell, it probably won't even be his final word if you give it a little time.
My two cents, Dude, with all do respect to all involved.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 06, 2013, 12:43:54 AM
Well I'm calling it!
I don't like it. I don't think it's appropriate and I don't think it's at all dudeist.
If someone started spouting racist hatred such as " that the majority of black people fuck monkeys. Or "It is common knowledge that the majority of Jews should be burned because they eat babies" or " It is common knowledge that the majority of Scottish people would sell their families into slavery"
Would that be Tolerated!??
I've never talked about banning anyone! I have never indicated that! I am asking for clarification on what is and what is not considered "Dudeist"
I'm saying that I cannot and will not associate myself with a religion that wishes peace and harmony but has an "anything goes policy".
I guess what you are saying is paedophiles, despots and serial killers can all be dudes as long as they don't rock the boat too much and we give them space?
I miss Righteous Dude...
I wish he wouldn't have left so hastily
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 06, 2013, 01:31:56 AM
QuoteAm I wrong, or just an asshole?
You're being an asshole to be fair DB
This is not the movie. This is a forum where someone is expressing blatant racism. and you are now not only tolerating it but making up excuses.
Oliver has also come out with the most banal fucking statement I've ever come across! Tolerate intolerance! What the fuck is that about!?
Nah. Not convinced and seriously not happy.
My take on "tolerate intolerance" would simply be to tolerate people that are not perfect (that of course, would be all of us), we all have some intolerance in us, some Walter in us, and we all make mistakes and have our own prejudices. I for one think that people who hate dark beer should be put against the wall and shot...just kiddin', but I think you see my point. Perhaps the answer to people who have high degrees of intoleration is to be an example of being toleration in front of them? If we refuse to tolerate everyone who is intolerant, we would have to trash all of dudemanity.
That's just like my opinion, man.
Quote from: forumdude on May 06, 2013, 03:34:26 AM
Pizza be upon you, Caesar Dude.
With peperoni and pineapple?
...and who the fuck came up with the word "pineapple" anyway? It's neither pine or apple. WTF?! :o ;D
Religion is a strange thing, equally lifting humanity to its (arguably) highest highs and bringing down to its lowest lows. If we didn't have it where would we be and if we lose it where will we go?
It's the irrational trying to make sense of the intangible
DB, I like you're take on this. It's hard to find where to draw the line in the Dudely sand, that is, where is the point where we cannot simply let it go. But I definitely agree with leading by example. It seems like the only approach of reason
Carry on
Quote from: BrotherShamus on May 07, 2013, 08:52:41 PM
DB, I like you're take on this. It's hard to find where to draw the line in the Dudely sand, that is, where is the point where we cannot simply let it go. But I definitely agree with leading by example. It seems like the only approach of reason
Carry on
Thankie, dude. 8) (though I had should corrected a misstated word where I said "be an example of being toleration in front of them" which should have been "be an example of being tolerant in front of them")
Look I've been very good and let all you lot slug this out between you (without muddying the water like I usually do).
From my understanding the perpetrator has taken his bat and ball home (officially de ordained), and further proved my formula about names on the forum, watch anyone called "The One True Dude" or "The True Lebowski" or "The King of the Dudes" (you know the type) because they are bound to try to tell everyone else how to do things and usually prove not to be good team players.
So can we now all kiss and make up?
Quote from: meekon5 on May 08, 2013, 07:36:48 AM
... and further proved my formula about names on the forum, watch anyone called "The One True Dude" or "The True Lebowski" or "The King of the Dudes" (you know the type) because they are bound to try to tell everyone else how to do things and usually prove not to be good team players.
So then you're not a linguist, eh? "Righteous dude" is a 1960's/70's (US) slang term meaning, basically, that someone is well liked and can always be counted on. A big part of that is taking up the problems one might have with the person with whom he has them, face to face, rather than waiting until the other guy is walking away to shoot him in the back. You had not shit to say while the dust was flying, but then when I leave you denigrate me?
Go in peace, brothers. I'm beating feet for greener pastures, but it was fun while it lasted. Be well.
I think Meekon was mixed up regarding the identities. Righteous Dude wasn't a perp but a protester. He thought that Abideist was a perp. And since the response (or, rather I think, my response) wasn't strong enough against Abideist, Righteous Dude decided that Dudeism doesn't stand for anything and is too loosey goosey. So he de-ordained. Although I guess he's still checking into the forum.
At least I think that's what's going on. I could be wrong. Part of the problem is that this thread is so long that I didn't even realize what I was commenting on -- I thought people wanted Abideist banned from the forum when it seems that RD and Caesar wanted to know what the "official" (if there is such a thing) Dudeist stance on this sort of thing.
QuoteAt least I think that's what's going on. I could be wrong. Part of the problem is that this thread is so long that I didn't even realize what I was commenting on -- I thought people wanted Abideist banned from the forum when it seems that RD and Caesar wanted to know what the "official" (if there is such a thing) Dudeist stance on this sort of thing.
This is what I wanted and while in part protesting directly to Abeidist I actually wanted the Dudely Lama to clarify what his take would be.
I wasn't happy with DB's "Nothing is fucked here" statement and was even less impressed with Oliver's reply to another statement of mine (later clarified by him that he had replied to another of my comments as he had not read the whole thread!).
The thread is long because in my mind at least it is important!
Should dudeism incorporate beliefs in racism, mysogny, bigotry, paedophilia etc. because we should embrace tolerance? Or to use a fucked up phrase "Tolerate intolerism" There has to be a stand somewhere...that's all I'm saying!
I do NOT want anyone banned and never said I did!
It's one thing to hate wasps and crocodiles because they have no compassion for other living creatures...it's another to hate human beings for the same thing.
Peace.
Well, having said all that, let's get us a lane, dudes. A few beers, a few burgers...
So, group hug or not? ;D
Fucking tough to stay outa this one, but I was a bit late showing up like some others. Not sure if anything I had to say would have helped, there are enough intellectual heavyweights here to say the important things. Just one observation: emotions were too high; the aggression was unnecessary. Just my $0.02.
Peace dudes! 8)
Quote from: Hominid on May 08, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
So, group hug or not? ;D
Fucking tough to stay outa this one, but I was a bit late showing up like some others. Not sure if anything I had to say would have helped, there are enough intellectual heavyweights here to say the important things. Just one observation: emotions were too high; the aggression was unnecessary. Just my $0.02.
Peace dudes! 8)
I was thinking more of a group rug. You know, hit some ganja and meditate. 8)
Ya DB, one way or another, this room is gonna get tied together!
Quote from: Hominid on May 08, 2013, 11:51:52 PM
Ya DB, one way or another, this room is gonna get tied together!
Fuckin' eh, mang!
Group hug followed by group rug. Then, smoke some group drug or drink some group mug. Hopefully no group thug will piss on the group rug. That would be not a style to be dug.
Yeah, I sort of addressed this before, but let me just go on record as saying IMDO that Dudeism should never be mistaken for a hippy-dippy (no offense against the hippies, per se) philosophy of "it's all good" or "anything goes" or "it all works out in the end" or "people are basically good" and any of that so-called "spiritual" stuff. In fact I see Dudeism as a palliative to both pessimism and optimism. A friend of mine recently wrote an article about that in the Dudespaper. Dudeism is fundamentally pragmatic. It's about finding out what works best for any given situation or group of people without resorting to fundamentalism or idealism. It supports freedoms that do not hurt others. That is to say that while it tries to promote freedom of thought and lifestyle, it is against anything that hurts other people (with exception - sometimes people's feelings are not as important as rational dialogue - which is the problem with criticizing religion these days.)
But in the case of this whole kerfuffle, I'm not sure that the line is so clearly drawn in the sand. I think people should be allowed to criticize groups of people, cultures, ways of life, religious beliefs, habits of dress, or whatever, without fear of being labeled a racist. Abideist was clearly waaaay out of line with his first comment, but I think he drew back to an acceptable (though still pretty impolite) position. However, is it Dudeist for him to talk like that? Absolutely not. Does Dudeism support this kind of attitude? Absolutely not. Does Dudeism seek to bring people together instead of driving them apart? Absolutely. And what follows from that is that we have to realize that we're all a bunch of goddamn morons sometimes - even though we feel righteous, we may not be right. (not a dig at Righteous Dude) So it's up to us to at least try to perform Dude Jitsu on the unDude. Sometimes we think and say very unDude things. And it is up to the Dudeist Priests in the world to try to fix that by acting in a way that will disarm them and see that their thinking is very uptight.
Honestly, I don't know how anyone who knows anything about Dudeism would ever think that we're supportive of paedophiles, murderers, racists, or any other kind of fucking asshole. Do we really have to spell that out? Do we need a list of commandments? I sure hope not. It was always my feeling that the implicit dictates of Dudeism were sort of self-evident but maybe I'm wrong. I guess Dudeism could benefit from some sort of an explicit set of principles.
QuoteI guess Dudeism could benefit from some sort of an explicit set of principles.
Doing that would kill Dudeism man. It would quash the whole point of the limber mind and all that. As soon as you introduce specific principles to try and account for every situation, you end up in a quagmire of amendments, etc. I think you get my drift. It's the freedoms and adaptability of Dudeism that MAKES it Dudeism. That's what I see anyway.
I think Abideist was in a bad place in his life and needed to vent... HUGELY. He let his intellectual integrity suffer for his need to express anger. He needed space. Hell, don't we all do that at some point? Maybe given enough time, the flame war would have subsided, but, maybe not. Maybe what he did was cathartic for him, and he knew he had to move on. All just guesses, but he was attracted to Dudeism because it resonated with him at some level. If his words reflected his true feelings, then he was a fake. But I'm not sure that was the case.
Quote from: RighteousDude on May 08, 2013, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: meekon5 on May 08, 2013, 07:36:48 AM
... and further proved my formula about names on the forum, watch anyone called "The One True Dude" or "The True Lebowski" or "The King of the Dudes" (you know the type) because they are bound to try to tell everyone else how to do things and usually prove not to be good team players.
So then you're not a linguist, eh? "Righteous dude" is a 1960's/70's (US) slang term meaning, basically, that someone is well liked and can always be counted on. A big part of that is taking up the problems one might have with the person with whom he has them, face to face, rather than waiting until the other guy is walking away to shoot him in the back. You had not shit to say while the dust was flying, but then when I leave you denigrate me?
Go in peace, brothers. I'm beating feet for greener pastures, but it was fun while it lasted. Be well.
The problem with a forum like this is people will read into something whatever they want.
As with this reply.
Wrong intention read, wrong reply given.
My mistake as to who had done what and who had de-ordained.
Additional:
Wrong intention read, wrong reply given.
by RighteousDude as well.
Sometimes I'm so busy milking my own sacred cow, I don't realise it's shitting on someone else's head.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on May 09, 2013, 07:14:04 AM
Sometimes I'm so busy milking my own sacred cow, I don't realise it's shitting on someone else's head.
For some reason, there is nothing more boring to me than hearing some self styled pseudo-wisdom master express a thought or opinion in the form of a cheap shot two second proverb or "witty" sounding prose. Not sure why, but they sicken me. Maybe its the subtle hidden arrogance and self serving self righteousness carefully disguised as "wisdom" while in reality being nothing more than insults to oneself and others. Either way you look at it, I mentally puke whenever and wherever I read or hear one. They wreak with one-up-manship and an undeserved display of self given superiority to one's fellow dudes.
Gurus are up their self righteous asses in this kind of shit, and go as far as to control people with them; you know, all the wide eyed morons that follow gurus and "holy men" around hoping that these blood sucking undudes will grace them with enlightenment someday (which never comes) in the form of proverbilcal bull shit. And shit it is; worthy of any horse stable. Most people who drop their witty little lines in the hope of impressing you with their self declared "wisdom" remind me of people dropping off a pungent fart as they walk by your table in a nice restaurant; not welcome at all and irritatingly useless.
Having said that; I have to say that I have always (since first watching TBL) appreciated the ability the dude had in tossing out a proverb here and a witticism there totally void of arrogance or self righteousness... "well, that's just like your opinion, man."
If there is one thing that makes me want to flip the bird in the general direction of anyone, its some douchebag who spits out a "witty proverb" and then smugly waits to be praised by wide eyed knuckleheads who think "wisdom was heard from today." I'm tempted in such times to go Walter on them and shout a healthy "shut the fuck up and bury that shit, you asshat!"
OK then; that's just like my opinion, man.
I'm getting me a lane. 8)
I thought it was pretty funny!
oh fuck, i totally misunderstood! i thought you were criticizing Boston for HIS proverb. But it was just the opposite. Man I hate language sometimes. When will we be able to just plug into each other's thoughts with a USB cable?
but it is ironic as well, since this whole thread has been about not understanding each other.
maybe we should turn this thread into a proverb? ha ha.
OK, so I'm lost. (Not the first time...). DB: what "proverb" what you referring to? Like FD, I thought you were referring to BR.
Quote from: Hominid on May 10, 2013, 08:06:48 AM
OK, so I'm lost. (Not the first time...). DB: what "proverb" what you referring to? Like FD, I thought you were referring to BR.
None in particular, not even Boston Rockbury's, (though Boston Rockbury's did remind me of that pet peev of mine) it was just the concept as a whole. And possibly a reason to bitch at something. 8)
Quote from: forumdude on May 10, 2013, 07:57:09 AM
oh fuck, i totally misunderstood! i thought you were criticizing Boston for HIS proverb. But it was just the opposite. Man I hate language sometimes. When will we be able to just plug into each other's thoughts with a USB cable?
but it is ironic as well, since this whole thread has been about not understanding each other.
maybe we should turn this thread into a proverb? ha ha.
Yeah, good point; but think of the brain viruses we would spread! ;D
I actually didn't think he meant BR's comment. I get what he's saying since I've read & heard some stupid one-liners, such as Ramtha bullshit, Abraham generalities, and so on.
I have a "friend" who does that. He'll quote something or reword something. When you ask what he means, you get "Oh, it's too hard to explain. You won't understand."
Quote from: Masked Dude on May 10, 2013, 08:54:11 AM
I actually didn't think he meant BR's comment. I get what he's saying since I've read & heard some stupid one-liners, such as Ramtha bullshit, Abraham generalities, and so on.
I have a "friend" who does that. He'll quote something or reword something. When you ask what he means, you get "Oh, it's too hard to explain. You won't understand."
;D(http://www.jonathandoctor.net/images/facebook_like_button_big-small.jpg)
I must admit I sometimes it find it hard to understand you DB. Sometimes you you write some pretty misleading stuff!
But we're still friends for sure.
I'd like to draw a line underneath this whole thing but would hope that Abeidist dude has maybe thought a little more about what he has written and what he will write in the future.
As I said a while back. Let's give peace a chance.
Peace dudes.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 08:14:09 PM
I must admit I sometimes it find it hard to understand you DB. Sometimes you you write some pretty misleading stuff!
But we're still friends for sure.
I'd like to draw a line underneath this whole thing but would hope that Abeidist dude has maybe thought a little more about what he has written and what he will write in the future.
As I said a while back. Let's give peace a chance.
Peace dudes.
Misleading? Details please. 8)
Misleading may have been the wrong word: Shall we say confusing then?
Like when you said to Abeidist "Nothing is fucked here" when it clearly was.
Like when you quote things like this "As for England and the growth of islam in Britain, I was referring to this kind of thing.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5xRmKTD96po (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5xRmKTD96po)"
When it is outdated and not representative and in fact the lead player has already been deported.
Like when you state "Islam is NOT a religion of peace, that claim is absolute bullshit," and "At it's core, islam is in fact a religion of hate and intolerance." When in fact Islam (literal meaning is peace!)
And "As an example, witness how the muslims flooded out into the streets in Afghanistan when the morons, the Taliban, were run out of their country and deposed. It was sheer celebration that a worthless insane hardline group of muslims had been vanquished. The press has built them, islam worldwide, up into a gigantic unstoppable united religion, they are anything but that. In fact, sunni muslims are strongly (and at times, violently) opposed to shiite muslims, and often are at war between themselves."
(I'm still working that one out!)
Don't you think that the Taliban are Muslims or do you not realise that the people running onto the streets are Muslims too!?
" Islam, the radicals, need to be put into submission to international law, and each nation with muslims must keep their religion under control with good laws and a democratic infrastructure."
Most of them do in fact do this! Except for the radicals who won't be held to any law. This is why we have terrorists!
I can't quote your friends FB post but please re-read it and try and see it from another point of view. America is not exactly a champion of human rights! Probably the biggest police state in the world. Then there's Guantanamo, and torture and Rendition and government approved corruption and the highest rate of imprisonment in the world and the largest ethnic (black) prisoner population etc. etc etc.
You asked.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
Misleading may have been the wrong word: Shall we say confusing then?
Like when you said to Abeidist "Nothing is fucked here" when it clearly was.
I was referring to the debate, the thread or conversation, not the subject.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
Like when you quote things like this "As for England and the growth of islam in Britain, I was referring to this kind of thing.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5xRmKTD96po (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5xRmKTD96po)"
When it is outdated and not representative and in fact the lead player has already been deported.
From what I have read, radical islam is still a problem in Britain. I have a cousin born and living in England who has told me you are still dealing the problem. Brits are very concerned about the growth of Muslim influence in London (which now permits Sharia law), as an example. Pat Condell expresses it this way... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA)
See also - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEuOzSnQ8s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEuOzSnQ8s)
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
Like when you state "Islam is NOT a religion of peace, that claim is absolute bullshit," and "At it's core, islam is in fact a religion of hate and intolerance." When in fact Islam (literal meaning is peace!)
"Islam" is a word meaning "submission" or "submission to allah" and has nothing to do with the concept of "peace." Islam is in no way, at it's core, a religion of peaceful means. It's very scriptures, the Quran, command that Muslims are to "convert by the sword and to kill the infidel." These are not words of peace. And, as we have been seeing, almost all terrorist activity globally has been islamic based by those who are doing so based on their religion. And I quote... "Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" - Quran 48:29
Does that sound peaceful to you, dude? Yes, most Muslims live in peace, but we are not referring to them.
Islamic scholars teach
"the proper way to beat your wife." THIS is a "religion of peace?" ??!! I don't think so, C dude!
For more on that; see - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm) or http://www.thereligionofpeace.com (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com)
Also.......
Is?lam [is-lahm, iz-, is-luhm, iz-] Show IPA
noun
1. the religious faith of Muslims, based on the words and religious system founded by the prophet Muhammad and taught by the Koran,
the basic principle of which is absolute submission to a unique and personal god, Allah.2. the whole body of Muslim believers, their civilization, and the countries in which theirs is the dominant religion.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
And "As an example, witness how the muslims flooded out into the streets in Afghanistan when the morons, the Taliban, were run out of their country and deposed. It was sheer celebration that a worthless insane hardline group of muslims had been vanquished. The press has built them, islam worldwide, up into a gigantic unstoppable united religion, they are anything but that. In fact, sunni muslims are strongly (and at times, violently) opposed to shiite muslims, and often are at war between themselves."
(I'm still working that one out!)
OK, cool.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
Don't you think that the Taliban are Muslims or do you not realise that the people running onto the streets are Muslims too!?
Not sure where you are going on that one. Of course, they were glad to see assholes and morons like the taliban gone, but they need to look at WHY the taliban exist in the first place and why they act as they do...the Quran. The taliban, as far as they were concerned, were operating in the "will of allah" and in obedience to the Quran.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
" Islam, the radicals, need to be put into submission to international law, and each nation with muslims must keep their religion under control with good laws and a democratic infrastructure."
Most of them do in fact do this! Except for the radicals who won't be held to any law. This is why we have terrorists!
Internationally, radical islam is a problem, and too many nations are kissing islam's ass. We are too afraid to "offend" islam, they might get violent. That shit needs to stop, and where needed, islam needs to be told "across this line YOU DO NOT" and then enforce it.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
I can't quote your friends FB post but please re-read it and try and see it from another point of view. America is not exactly a champion of human rights! Probably the biggest police state in the world. Then there's Guantanamo, and torture and Rendition and government approved corruption and the highest rate of imprisonment in the world and the largest ethnic (black) prisoner population etc. etc etc.
You asked.
OK, I will read it.
Lastly, let me say this; if islam were in power here, as they are in Iran, Dudeism would be outlawed and persecuted as a religion of infidels deserving death. Something to think about.
I can see we are going to have to agree to disagree on some of your points here.
But this statement of yours is absolutely unfounded and not in the slightest bit true!
QuoteBrits are very concerned about the growth of Muslim influence in London (which now permits Sharia law), as an example.
Britain only "permits" Sharia law in as much that it allows Muslims to practice their faith. It has no basis in British legal process.
There are Sharia courts for Muslims, granted, but they are purely religious courts for Muslims and if a judge was to rule eg. "stone her for adultery" that would not be permitted under our laws!! and the perpetrators would be subjected to British law!
I don't want to muddy the waters any further on this thread so I wish to leave the discussion here. Go and grab a lane, get a fucking BK burger as it's better than Mc'ds (and we have nothing better!) a few beers then our troubles will be over! :)
Peace DB
It's not the religious system itself that radicalizes people and turns them to be so hateful and violent; I've said this before: it's what's in man's heart. ANY religion can be used (and is used) to justify evil. And religion isn't going anywhere soon. People need it for the perceived sense of purpose and comfort it gives, not just justification for evil. Biker Dude once called it adult thumb-sucking, which is a perfect description.
Philosophically, I'm kinda with Sam Harris who says that Islam is a world threat. I'll modify that by saying it's what people DO with Islam that's the problem. Further, Muslims who are peaceful actually do NOT understand their own religion; DB is dead on with that point. Read this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)
Ok then one more!
When I worked in the Middle East we had a little bearded mullah who was always leaving scripture laying around!
One of these was the book of Hadith which I idly read! Hadith 42 states:
"Allah the Almighty has said: 'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me, and hope in Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds in the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I shall forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with an earthful of sins and were you then to face Me, without having associated anything with Me, I shall grant you an earthfull of pardon.'"
Which is basically a get out of jail free card for any sin!
It is a book of contradictions, so much so that I coined the phrase "for each Hadith there is an equal and opposite Hadith!
It's no wonder they are confused! :)
Yep, that's why all these religious people have to cherry pick what supports their agenda.
Indeed they do. ALL religions do the same. Which is what I was pointing out in the first place. :(
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 11:39:13 PM
Indeed they do. ALL religions do the same. Which is what I was pointing out in the first place. :(
Actually, that's exact same for christianity. A murderous pederast Hitler-type can have a deathbed conversion and end up in heaven. But the Dali Lama goes to hell for bating for the wrong team. Pfffffff
Time for another beer and a burger...
Quote from: Hominid on May 10, 2013, 10:53:01 PM
It's not the religious system itself that radicalizes people and turns them to be so hateful and violent; I've said this before: it's what's in man's heart. ANY religion can be used (and is used) to justify evil. And religion isn't going anywhere soon. People need it for the perceived sense of purpose and comfort it gives, not just justification for evil. Biker Dude once called it adult thumb-sucking, which is a perfect description.
Philosophically, I'm kinda with Sam Harris who says that Islam is a world threat. I'll modify that by saying it's what people DO with Islam that's the problem. Further, Muslims who are peaceful actually do NOT understand their own religion; DB is dead on with that point. Read this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)
But doesn't permit still mean people are judged and punished under it?
The religion of peace?.....
(http://thegreatantagonizer.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/islam_religion_of_peace_022.jpg)
(http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/images/2007/08/13/religion_of_peace_2.jpg)
A women being stoned to death; her crime...seen in public with a man not her husband.
(http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/women-stoning/images/Woman%20Stoning%20Iran.jpg)
Executed in public by the taliban, her crime; at the most, adultery.
(http://www.rawa.org/zarmina1.jpg)
(http://instantworlddomination.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/honor-killing-awareness-campaign.jpg)
Peace?
Quote from: Hominid on May 10, 2013, 11:45:57 PM
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 11:39:13 PM
Indeed they do. ALL religions do the same. Which is what I was pointing out in the first place. :(
Actually, that's exact same for christianity. A murderous pederast Hitler-type can have a deathbed conversion and end up in heaven. But the Dali Lama goes to hell for bating for the wrong team. Pfffffff
Time for another beer and a burger...
Yup, very true!
Again, it's people USING it to be angry, hateful, self-righteous, etc. that is at issue here. I'm not saying Islam should be excused; the opposite. But a religion no followed is an ineffectual one, so it's not the writings per se. Are we splitting hairs here? Or are you saying that if we eradicate Islam, then problem solved?
That's not helping DB!
http://thebrightestman.wikispaces.com/file/view/plo.ira.jpg/75388019/plo.ira.jpg (http://thebrightestman.wikispaces.com/file/view/plo.ira.jpg/75388019/plo.ira.jpg)
PIRA and the PLO (Muslim extremists!) and Noraid.
Sympathy for Boston was a wee bit lacking here in UK for sure!
I could have added a whole host of American atrocities here: From Vietnam to Afghan to Abu Graib. In glorious technicolour: What is your point?
I could mention your heritage of annihilation to the indigenous people of what is now the United States (all done in the name of Christ the redeemer!)
I'm seeing the same lack of tolerance that Abideist dude was showing. but this time pictorially.
I think you have the same issues.
Actually: having seen your file photos' let's!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5NC6B5utE3s/T8fosHm-T3I/AAAAAAAADZA/eh7akEY0x4I/s1600/image103.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5NC6B5utE3s/T8fosHm-T3I/AAAAAAAADZA/eh7akEY0x4I/s1600/image103.jpg)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-63y5XgYXsOw/TwH_4bHIa1I/AAAAAAAAAXw/163KBPnbGyw/s1600/Leo+Frank-1915.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-63y5XgYXsOw/TwH_4bHIa1I/AAAAAAAAAXw/163KBPnbGyw/s1600/Leo+Frank-1915.jpg)
http://westorlandonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pissing_on_afghanistan.jpg (http://westorlandonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pissing_on_afghanistan.jpg)
http://americaworshiper.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/1m2r3c1nw4rsh3p2r-wh3t2_1m2r3c1.jpg (http://americaworshiper.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/1m2r3c1nw4rsh3p2r-wh3t2_1m2r3c1.jpg)
I don't think you have a leg to stand on!
These last three were all as the result of Good old USA CHRISTIAN Fundamentalists.
http://yeyeolade.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/white-lynching-party.jpg (http://yeyeolade.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/white-lynching-party.jpg)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/JohnHeith.jpg/250px-JohnHeith.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/JohnHeith.jpg/250px-JohnHeith.jpg)
http://www.nathanielturner.com/images/New_Folder/citadelyearbook.jpg (http://www.nathanielturner.com/images/New_Folder/citadelyearbook.jpg)
What a short memory you have.
Quote from: Hominid on May 11, 2013, 12:10:19 AM
Again, it's people USING it to be angry, hateful, self-righteous, etc. that is at issue here. I'm not saying Islam should be excused; the opposite. But a religion no followed is an ineffectual one, so it's not the writings per se. Are we splitting hairs here? Or are you saying that if we eradicate Islam, then problem solved?
No, you make a good point.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 11, 2013, 12:11:36 AM
That's not helping DB!
http://thebrightestman.wikispaces.com/file/view/plo.ira.jpg/75388019/plo.ira.jpg (http://thebrightestman.wikispaces.com/file/view/plo.ira.jpg/75388019/plo.ira.jpg)
PIRA and the PLO (Muslim extremists!) and Noraid.
Sympathy for Boston was a wee bit lacking here in UK for sure!
I'm not trying to help, I'm trying to be honest and accurate. What would be "helpful," deny the facts and keep it quiet?
North America didn't take Hitler seriously till actual photographic images of the death camps started showing up. I say tell it like it is, and fuck PC. Evil is evil. But that's - like, my opinion.
Quote from: Hominid on May 11, 2013, 12:22:31 AM
North America didn't take Hitler seriously till actual photographic images of the death camps started showing up. I say tell it like it is, and fuck PC. Evil is evil. But that's - like, my opinion.
Not taking hitler seriously was a BIG mistake. We all know where that lead to.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 11, 2013, 12:11:36 AM
That's not helping DB!
http://thebrightestman.wikispaces.com/file/view/plo.ira.jpg/75388019/plo.ira.jpg (http://thebrightestman.wikispaces.com/file/view/plo.ira.jpg/75388019/plo.ira.jpg)
PIRA and the PLO (Muslim extremists!) and Noraid.
Sympathy for Boston was a wee bit lacking here in UK for sure!
I could have added a whole host of American atrocities here: From Vietnam to Afghan to Abu Graib. In glorious technicolour: What is your point?
I could mention your heritage of annihilation to the indigenous people of what is now the United States (all done in the name of Christ the redeemer!)
I'm seeing the same lack of tolerance that Abideist dude was showing. but this time pictorially.
I think you have the same issues.
Actually: having seen your file photos' let's!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5NC6B5utE3s/T8fosHm-T3I/AAAAAAAADZA/eh7akEY0x4I/s1600/image103.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5NC6B5utE3s/T8fosHm-T3I/AAAAAAAADZA/eh7akEY0x4I/s1600/image103.jpg)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-63y5XgYXsOw/TwH_4bHIa1I/AAAAAAAAAXw/163KBPnbGyw/s1600/Leo+Frank-1915.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-63y5XgYXsOw/TwH_4bHIa1I/AAAAAAAAAXw/163KBPnbGyw/s1600/Leo+Frank-1915.jpg)
http://westorlandonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pissing_on_afghanistan.jpg (http://westorlandonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pissing_on_afghanistan.jpg)
http://americaworshiper.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/1m2r3c1nw4rsh3p2r-wh3t2_1m2r3c1.jpg (http://americaworshiper.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/1m2r3c1nw4rsh3p2r-wh3t2_1m2r3c1.jpg)
I don't think you have a leg to stand on!
These last three were all as the result of Good old USA CHRISTIAN Fundamentalists.
http://yeyeolade.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/white-lynching-party.jpg (http://yeyeolade.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/white-lynching-party.jpg)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/JohnHeith.jpg/250px-JohnHeith.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/JohnHeith.jpg/250px-JohnHeith.jpg)
http://www.nathanielturner.com/images/New_Folder/citadelyearbook.jpg (http://www.nathanielturner.com/images/New_Folder/citadelyearbook.jpg)
What a short memory you have.
Oh course, there are more reason people use to be violent than islam, no doubt. But your comment that islam was a peaceful religion is simply not true.
I do believe the UK and the rest of Europe were taking Hitler seriously long before pictures of the death camps showed up!
My only point was that while the truth is hidden, evil can keep growing. Both DB's pics AND yours show the atrocities mankind is capable of, no matter the belief system. I think we can all agree on that point...
I stand by my statement. Islam is a religion of peace. It's just been corrupted and the quran like the bible is very open to interpretation.
In actual fact I don't know of any religion that is based on hate, do you?
I'm pretty sure that a whole nation of Aztecs and Mayans would have said the same thing about Christianity when they arrived. "peacefull my arse!"
Just because you can't see it doesn't make it any less of a fact.
Muslims even greet each other with the phrase "peace be upon you"
QuoteMuslims even greet each other with the phrase "peace be upon you"
That doesn't mean they really understand their own religious writings. If it's anything like christianity at all, they're led around by the nose by "teachers" who interpret for them, instead of deriving or forming their own opinion. So, did you read this link? There's no "interpretation" that can water that down unless you're on acid. Slaughter of non-believers, etc.. That's not peaceful dude...
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)
I'm not being antagonistic; just exposing the Koran for what it is. A messy contradictory compilation just like the bible.
Quote from: Hominid on May 11, 2013, 12:48:44 AM
My only point was that while the truth is hidden, evil can keep growing. Both DB's pics AND yours show the atrocities mankind is capable of, no matter the belief system. I think we can all agree on that point...
Fuckin' eh!
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 11, 2013, 01:00:16 AM
I stand by my statement. Islam is a religion of peace. It's just been corrupted and the quran like the bible is very open to interpretation.
You could say that about any religion or other belief system. I don't care what they say or what they write, I care what they in fact do. And they DO a lot violence. And yes, any script is up for interpretation, true.
Check this out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY)
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 11, 2013, 03:04:41 AM
Check this out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY)
Fuck dude, that's some scary shit. I think there are Muslims who are not fully informed, and don't hold to the hard core message of Islam, but the ones that do certainly pose a major threat. No wonder Sam Harris said that it should be eradicated...
The problem is Islam is populated by humans, and humans are notorious for twisting what ever they can into what they want. Islam does give more permission for violence, but the observers still have to choose that. Islam does have quite a bit of peaceful and compassionate elements, but again the people have to choose to observe them.
The bigger problem is that Islam is a revelation religion, so we have to wait for a meta-physical being to come along to fix it. So settle in for the long wait. Is better to just slowly siphon off its adherents into our fold.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 11:14:31 PM
One of these was the book of Hadith which I idly read! Hadith 42 states:
"Allah the Almighty has said: 'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me, and hope in Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds in the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I shall forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with an earthful of sins and were you then to face Me, without having associated anything with Me, I shall grant you an earthfull of pardon.'??
Okay so I'm turning into a Dudeist weekender (see the brilliant "Goths") by only commenting now and then (be assured I am watching and lurking).
This is identical to christianity (catholosism) as long as you repent bfore you die you can do whatever you want and still go to heaven.
Also, as usual, the focus here is not on Islam as a whole just the Arabic version which is a product of Arabic society, not fully representative of Islam as a whole.
If you want to see a modern representation of Islamic society look at Malaysia, a muslim state that surpasses many "Western" states with it's acceptance of technology and society attitudes.
The reason our TV's are full of "Hatefull" images of "Muslims" screaming hate is because that's exactly what the man wants. How else do you justify a war against "savages".
Quote from: meekon5 on May 12, 2013, 07:04:43 AM
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 10, 2013, 11:14:31 PM
One of these was the book of Hadith which I idly read! Hadith 42 states:
"Allah the Almighty has said: 'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me, and hope in Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds in the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I shall forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with an earthful of sins and were you then to face Me, without having associated anything with Me, I shall grant you an earthfull of pardon.'??
Okay so I'm turning into a Dudeist weekender (see the brilliant "Goths") by only commenting now and then (be assured I am watching and lurking).
This is identical to christianity (catholosism) as long as you repent bfore you die you can do whatever you want and still go to heaven.
Also, as usual, the focus here is not on Islam as a whole just the Arabic version which is a product of Arabic society, not fully representative of Islam as a whole.
If you want to see a modern representation of Islamic society look at Malaysia, a muslim state that surpasses many "Western" states with it's acceptance of technology and society attitudes.
The reason our TV's are full of "Hatefull" images of "Muslims" screaming hate is because that's exactly what the man wants. How else do you justify a war against "savages".
Well said, M dude.
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7131/66421926facebooklike.jpg)
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 05, 2013, 07:17:22 PM
I have two words. Fuck you.
Caesar dude...You can pat yourself on the back now. You made a believer out of me.
But in all seriousness, dudes; I decided to do some educating beyond what I have already invested. Which was personal experience and about 10 years of internet research...I dived into the muslim world. Went behind the scene and went as far as to talk to several muslims about this issue.
Thank you. Because of your 'fuck you', I might not have had the motivation to do this in my life. I got out there and had more than just a personal experience. I had a near religious, most definitely dudeist experience.
So let it be known, I no longer think the majority of muslims want me dead. The imam definitely does however.
I got this story in a email http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/budd-family/message/3685 (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/budd-family/message/3685)
My response to something like this is, relax dudes. If we can't learn to be patient and exercise restraint in condemning all muslims we are no better than when the inquistions were happening. Rick Mathes seems to forget that several popes did endorse the inquisitions. We cannot progress when the practice of religious freedom is attacked, just as we can't tolerate the terrorists that attack those who are unbelievers. That's why we are at war and occupy the middle east. We are sending a message that we will not stand for it dudes. I absolutely believe there are sects of muslims that have no problem with a jihad on non believers. And it's easy to manipulate the youth because they have undeveloped minds, and have not lived long enough to enjoy the freedoms that their country does not have. We need to practice restraint and patience, and eventually I predict there may be amendments to Quran and to the prophets commandments. Just as the bible has been altered. I realize now that it's important to not judge all muslims immediately , because in these modern times I know now that many really don't practice that way. We do have Christmas/Easter Christians, the not so devout. It's not so hard to believe there are muslims that follow the good stuff, like my new testament only neighbors. The problem is, it only takes one extremist to kill you. And we are currently being attacked on our soil, (USA, Great Britain) which makes it difficult to trust. I wondered why so many Mosques are being built, and I was explained by a man of Islamic faith that this was good thing despite my initial concerns. I forgot about my rights, because I'm an idiot. But it makes perfect sense that in order to keep religious freedom for all, we can't pick and choose to abolish islam just because some of them declare and follow jihad. If we get aggressive and openly reject them, it gives the government an excuse to restrict religious freedom.
(http://i.imgur.com/nGU8n.png)
Much of my previous distaste for the actions of the extremists stems from the many sources it occurs. It isn't simply Bin Laden and his band of merry morons. It was that it appears so rampant and world wide. The Buddhist provocation was just one more straw to break the camels back and my response was unnecessary and antagonistic. Sorry dude.
I wouldn't want get caught in a dark alley with a group of strange moslem men, but i'm not going to burn down any mosques either. I wouldn't harm anyone ever unless it was life or death obviously. The scary thing to me is that I was raised to know good and evil and that killing is wrong no matter the circumstance, yet, in the quran the loop hole against non believers is dangerous when misunderstandings and fuck ups like with the monks can go out of control quickly. Bottom line, no, not all muslims are out to get me and you. I just hope in 30 years that In & Out burger has a muslim friendly menu.
Okay, So Caesar dude, let me offer a bit more explanation. Also my honest apologies to DB, ForumDude, and RighteousDude, and anyone else I may have offended. Please allow me to do my best at clearing up some misunderstandings from this ill communication.
First and foremost, I am a dude, and I am a dudeist, and I will always be a dudeist regardless if my ordination is revoked or if somehow the government or a Nazi-esque regime tried to take it away from me. And I would also borrow from the quran a bit of espionage and deny my dudeism if under threat of death, if only to feign ignorance and keep practicing my bowling technique in secret. (thank you for the three things video by the way)
Secondly, I am honest when I tell you I do now understand that not all muslims want me dead and it is much like a boy scout troupe that is lead by single mothers, a bit of teaching the wrong things like sewing instead of rowing, and a bit of reading the long lost daddys old scout book before the new edition that doesn't teach about moss growing on the north side of trees because it's bullshit, and then getting your ass lost in the woods with arts in crafts instead of a pocket knife...I don't know why I wrote that, I think I thought I was going somewhere that made more sense. But I'm leaving it because it's funny.
My point being that there are muslims that know right and wrong and will never harm you or I, but because of a few assholes, there continues to be fresh meat ready to do the wrong things. It doesn't help that their version of the pope wants to talk about all this violence instead of a simple dalilamic message of peace.
3. I never said I hate muslims. Ever. I don't know why Ceasar dude you continue to put those words in my mouth. (so to say)
4. I am not racist. I'm not sure if you understand what that word means when you called me a racist. That would mean I hate people based on their beliefs or skin type, or where they are from, but again. I never said hate.
5. I still disapprove of the way certain groups that are not in the majority practice "peace", which I wrongly said F*** about.
6. I'm not available to get online as often as you guys, I will try to do so, if my opinions can be tolerated, but when you leave 5 messages you can bet when I logged in, I read one of them and maybe the guy after that before I had to log off. It's rare I can log in long enough to make these long responses, and normally that is why you might see every blue moon ABIDEIST responding to 10 topics and then disappearing.
okay tired of numbers again. So here are some other points. (I feel very undude like having to lay it out like a defense with all this hoopla, not my style, but im afraid of leaving this issue to spiral out of control again without being more clear and trying to address the anger and comments about what some people seem to think dudeism is about, and how my opinion somehow would effect that)
I think the idea of dudeism is lost to some, and I personally do find it to be a spiritual and very real way of life, not just a movie site, I recognize how funny it is that it stems from a cult film, and obviously that is easily viewed as a joke, but I believe In dudeism for what it represents, it's a name and place for it's time but the thoughts have been here forever. I got this way by over coming my previous religious engagments finding myself, and not adhering to anything specific other than my life for what it is. I have studied religion which helped me realize that FOR ME, dudeism is perfect and says 'hey, I don't believe religion is such a hot idea, we can't truly know anything, enjoy life, and be cool dudes' however, dudeism to me also represents freedom. Which is greatly overlooked by the dudes coming here to support getting high a cool flick, and some oat sodas. It's so much greater than what one of you fellows scribbled back there, about 'I thought this place was supposed to be all peace and if you exist as a dude, maybe I can't either' or something like that. Okay. So where did it say on the ordination form that your fellow dudes were all going to be relaxing and smoking a doobie while bombs were dropping on the bowling alley and the kaluha is being confiscated by fucking nihilists? I know how to party man, and I know how to relax, but I also know that I would like to keep doing it forever, and I want my brothers and little achievers to enjoy the same freedom. I am also a believer that there is a greater reason, a binding force (like star wars) in the galaxy that brings us here, and my walter side is a part of that. It has it's short comings, but without it, I cannot be a true dude. I think that is our own bit of confusion to dudeists. The name is dudeism, so you immediately assume it's all about the dudes personality. Thats' the part you like most, so stick to that and ignore the rest. well if you can do that, more power to you citizen.
Alright, it's late as fuck, I have more to blurb that I hope Caesar and Righteous dude will check in and give me a chance on, but for now Im done.
RicheousDude, sorry you want to be deordained because of a fire I lit, I hope it has helped you to think and grow as a dude even if you don't consider yourself one.
I give in!
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151574755733459" width="400" height="224" frameborder="0"></iframe>
I know it's a minority but it's very disturbing.
I apologise Abeidist for saying "fuck you" I was out of order.
Peace.
Be at peace, brother. We're all together here on this Dudeist journey.
Changing the world one dude at a time.
Interesting video. I hope they're only representing a small minority of muslims in London. Very undude.
Well after you've seen that video and done a little more research I hope you see why I view them as a threat.
Although many muslims are just as ignorant as most Christians who have never even read their own bible, I realize now that most although think I'm already damned and beneath them, a number I can't say want me dead, probably out of them all only a minority would like to do the actual killing. That makes sense, Less than 10% (9.2) of the population of the US, serves in the military. People prepared to kill for freedom, Lets say there are those that would serve that wind up in prison, die, or could but dont; so we will say just 10% to be fair; add 20% because 20% of the US population are police, and US police carry guns which mean they are prepared to kill.
The other 70% are the regular joe citizens who are too afraid to kill, don't believe in it, physically or mentally disabled, or in jail or whatever.
People are still just people. Humans. It's likely then, that we can use this equation of sorts, with muslims. The only difference is, in their religion you go straight to heaven the minute you kill someone who isn't a believer. I guess that number would increase then, perhaps. Well, I don't know it's all speculation. But for now I'll just assume that 3/10 muslims would be capable of killing.
Just out of curiosity, any dudes here that were formerly muslim?
Now lets also use this funny hillbilly math to show ignorance of religion. A study shows that roughly only 60% of Christians read the bible, and not all devoutly. That means 40% haven't even read the fucker even if they own a copy. Only 12% of that 60% read it day to day. The 'extremists'. Okay, so lets say only 12% of muslims are extremists that know according to their religion, allah wants you to kill non believers and will reward you if you do; that means roughly 1 out 10 muslims WANTS to kill dudes.
And roughly 40% of Muslims probably don't know shit.
Opinions?
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on May 21, 2013, 08:11:37 PM
Interesting video. I hope they're only representing a small minority of muslims in London. Very undude.
This isn't London. It's Luton. A tiny place in comparison!
I've read the bible through more than a few times... maybe I'll order a Qu'ran from amazon and do the same thing so I can speak with some authority... I've read some good "takes" on it, but unless we can claim at least some familiarity with it, arguing with extremist Muslims is a waste of time. Interpretations of sacred text is an exercise in "tit for tat". If you don't know yer shit, don't come to the table.
Example: I was good at arguing with Jehova Witnesses because I knew my bible better than all the local elders. They're a typical twist on Christianity that serves their own belief system with a re-written bible, but don't stand up to scrutiny. (Not that the bible stands up to scrutiny, but you get my drift)
It's all about the "haves" and the "have-nots". Human pride. It stinks.
[Edit]: Everyone: have a beer & a burger. Preferably while not in an iron lung.
You can't read the Qu'ran unless you can read Arabic. I've read a translation. But devout followers tell me it's in the Arabic words and inflection that give it different meanings.
You could read a hundred translations and all off them would be different and all of them would be invalid because they were not written in Allah's words. :(
That's an age-old problem. As someone with family who don't speak English (or very little), I know at times translating loses something.
One man who published a book saying maybe the Qur'an was translated incorrectly is now in hiding.
Language is a funny thing.
Quote from: Caesar dude on May 21, 2013, 09:58:37 PM
You can't read the Qu'ran unless you can read Arabic. I've read a translation. But devout followers tell me it's in the Arabic words and inflection that give it different meanings.
You could read a hundred translations and all off them would be different and all of them would be invalid because they were not written in Allah's words. :(
RE:
"You can't read the Qu'ran unless you can read Arabic. I've read a translation. But devout followers tell me it's in the Arabic words and inflection that give it different meanings."Yes, that might be true, some of what is in the Quran as translated into English might be wrong, BUT, I don't care what they say is in the Quran, I care what Islam is in fact doing, what the reality of islam is, not what one version of it in one language is. Also, islamic terrorists, such as Bin Laden CAN AND DID read it in Arabic and we're (and are) violent terrorists. So, as far as they are concerned, the Quran commands violence against non-muslims. And who are you or me to tell them they are wrong? It's like their opinion, man. I have heard muslims in high positions who read fluid Arabic state that to...
kill infidels,
beat women,
raping teenagers is the fault of the teenager and she should be killed for adultery EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS RAPED
death to America,
terrorism is OK if in the name of allah,
Jew are pigs and apes, kill them,
Hitler was a great man because he was killing Jews,
a women's testimony in court counts for only 1/2 of what a man says,
slavery is OK according to allah,
etc., etc., etc. is the will of allah as revealed in the Quran IN ARABIC.
...religion of peace? Not as far as those who CAN read the Quran in the original language say so and DO SO.
How to beat women in Islam here the truth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFVAlij_Xw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFVAlij_Xw)
And I quote... ""allah honored wives by instating the punishment of beatings""
Islam: how to Beat Your Wife - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Tw7WhH_aQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Tw7WhH_aQ)
That's just like my opinion, man.
Unfortunately, any brand of religion gets protection JUST BECAUSE it's religion. That needs to change dude. The influx of [name the religion] into North America is changing the landscape... more "tolerance" will be legislated. We're loosing ground dude. I highly expect a squad of religious [fill in name] people will start burning shit on our front lawns. Geeze, where have I seen that before? We're devolving. I can't stand to think where we'll be in 50 to 100 years.
Your math's wrong, Dude. Fewer than 1% of Americans are in law enforcement-- that includes clerks and administrative staff as well as officers. Check in out, dude (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/police/index.html (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/police/index.html)). Your 10% number of military is probably also high, since it includes veterans and people who no longer serve, but let's call it that. That means that only 11% of Americans, on your way of thinking about it, are willing to kill to defend a way of life.
Next, your 12% of 60% amounts to only 7%. Think of it this way: if there are 100 Christians, only 60 of them read the Bible (60%), and only 12% of THEM (if I'm understanding your logic) are "extremists." That's about 7 people.
So, again, keeping to your logic, the number of people who are willing to bear arms in defense of a "way of life" is 11%, and the number of extremists in your group is 7%. Any way you cut it, that's a very small number, possibly less than 1%, maybe a little higher if you think that being an extremist makes you more willing to bear arms.
That's if we grant your logic, but I gotta say I don't agree with any of your underlying assumptions, Dude. For example, I don't think it's fair to say that people who read a religious text daily are extremists. You're assuming they take the contents literally, require the same level of belief from others, etc. So, there's a bunch of holes there, but I thought I'd chime in just to point out that even if we grant your logic, it's not likely that 10% of Muslims want you, me, or any of us dead.
Quote from: Abideist on May 21, 2013, 09:32:33 PM
Well after you've seen that video and done a little more research I hope you see why I view them as a threat.
Although many muslims are just as ignorant as most Christians who have never even read their own bible, I realize now that most although think I'm already damned and beneath them, a number I can't say want me dead, probably out of them all only a minority would like to do the actual killing. That makes sense, Less than 10% (9.2) of the population of the US, serves in the military. People prepared to kill for freedom, Lets say there are those that would serve that wind up in prison, die, or could but dont; so we will say just 10% to be fair; add 20% because 20% of the US population are police, and US police carry guns which mean they are prepared to kill.
The other 70% are the regular joe citizens who are too afraid to kill, don't believe in it, physically or mentally disabled, or in jail or whatever.
People are still just people. Humans. It's likely then, that we can use this equation of sorts, with muslims. The only difference is, in their religion you go straight to heaven the minute you kill someone who isn't a believer. I guess that number would increase then, perhaps. Well, I don't know it's all speculation. But for now I'll just assume that 3/10 muslims would be capable of killing.
Just out of curiosity, any dudes here that were formerly muslim?
Now lets also use this funny hillbilly math to show ignorance of religion. A study shows that roughly only 60% of Christians read the bible, and not all devoutly. That means 40% haven't even read the fucker even if they own a copy. Only 12% of that 60% read it day to day. The 'extremists'. Okay, so lets say only 12% of muslims are extremists that know according to their religion, allah wants you to kill non believers and will reward you if you do; that means roughly 1 out 10 muslims WANTS to kill dudes.
And roughly 40% of Muslims probably don't know shit.
Opinions?
I've already said I give in.
My opinion that Islam is a religion of peace is based on long standing relationships and friendships with actual Muslims. Some of them scholars: Some of them devout followers: Some of them a bit like me (brought up as Christian they brought up as Muslims but knowing that it is a crock of shit!)
I've clearly been mixing with the wrong type of Muslim!
There is no point in you quoting diatribes from the Qu'ran, I can do the same from the Bible:
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)
"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)
"Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished."
Isaiah 13:9, 13:15
"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."
Exodus 21:20
"But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then you shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..."
Deuteronomy 22:20
"He who believes and who is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
Matthew 10:34
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor"
Timothy 2:11
I don't want a pissing contest between us! You've made your point. I accept that point.
I do not accept that all Muslims feel the way that you are portraying them: Same way that I do not believe all Christians believe in the bible passages I have quoted!
Fuck statistics. I've seen what's coming for the last 40 years. Overall trends are what you should be watching. No racism here... I'm a student of history. The country (race?) with the most money wins.
Think oil
That'll be the USA at the moment, or maybe Saudi. Give it another 20 years and it will be China.
As you say ... money talks dude!
in a way it's kind of comforting to know china is there. Big, red, armed, and not exactly muslim friendly.
forgive my previous hill billy logic. I guess I got the wrong information, like I said though, it was purely speculation and what not. Regardless, the point was to show there are more uninformed followers of religion than the extremists. But both can be dangerous depending on what information they are receiving and as hominid stated, the current trends and where they are going. Well I'm done on this subject.
Bottom line.
You have to have fucked up big time to get a bunch of Buddhists pissed off...Just sayin dude.
QuoteYou have to have fucked up big time to get a bunch of Buddhists pissed off...Just sayin dude
And that is good line to end this debate on.
Peace.
Just one small point - and I may be well out of line here - but the fact is that the devout Muslim woman is completely devoid of hair except for head, eyebrows and eyelashes. Nice. Just saying....
If I may say some of my mind here, without sending oil on fire, it is not muslims or Islam that is dangerous. As every "holy book", it is the understanding of its content that can be misunderstood and completly turned on its opposite way.
As I read the Tora, the Holy Bible (not US evangelist stuff, which make me sigh just thinking of it) and Quran, with the most objective, non religious eyes I had, I came to the following conclusion :
The Quran is made like poems of Muhammat, inspired from the christian Bible and has some stuff he added, to bound with its contemporary culture/politics/atmosphere, but nowhere is clearly written to cover a women from her feet to her head, to beat her, to throw rock at her if she faults.
The Bible is divided in two parts : old testament (copy/past the Tora) and the new testament ( also known as "Jesus and his crew : few stories about a dude chosen 400 years after his death, but we throw away what we do not choose"). US evangelist claims about a third book, where Jesus might have lived in america... I prefere to stop here about this one, I might get undude... I could speak about the mischief of Christianity upon middle aged Europe for hours, but I may loose your interest, so I'll move on.
The Tora is basically an hygien book with godly cover, so people in those time feared not to bind to what was written. Cut the skin on the boy's dick, it'll avoid shits when he grow up. Ladies wash themselves for 7 days in a pure water source after giving birth, and so on, and so on.
None of them prone to kill people who do not believe what is written in them, all they intend is peace with thy neighbour, brotherhood, and good hygien so you can live long enough to enjoy familly and friends.
Women are not equal to men in those book, I recon that. But they are treated the same way in the three books. Just take a look to the answer Jesus gave his mother during the Marriage at Cana... To sum up, he gently tells her to shut up. Nice one from the Lord Savior...
All I'm saying is : don't be to hasty saying one religion is crap when just a bunch of misunderstanding shit heads uses it the wrong way. Remember that christians crusaded in middle east, burned native american culture, wether in north americ or south america, they litteraly killed lots of unchristians clutures, just because they think their book says truth and is the only one to.
The religions who underlined equallity to all living homo sapiens are very few.
Please remember that those lines are from a religious free reader of those books. I do not intend to insult anyone, may they be alive, or dead.
Hava dude - perhaps you didn't read the entire Quaran... check out http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)
Seems pretty clear to me that it takes no interpretation to conclude that Islam is - by ORDER from Mohammed - a violent religion. Very undude!
I'm thinking we need a separate website for Dudes to figure out their views toward Islam. After 12 pages of back-and-forth I'm guessing everyone has the same opinion they started with on page 1. :)
Just, like, my opinion man.
Quote from: Hominid on September 13, 2013, 08:39:17 AM
Hava dude - perhaps you didn't read the entire Quaran... check out http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)
Seems pretty clear to me that it takes no interpretation to conclude that Islam is - by ORDER from Mohammed - a violent religion. Very undude!
Similarly one can do the same thing with the christians Bible:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html)
Buddhism is a bit harder, but there is always the (Zen) roots and influence on Bushido (the Samurai code of conduct) now they where pretty violent.
Islam and Judaism of course have the same roots as christianity (being abrahmic religions) in the old testament (very violent).
see also:
http://www.otoons.de/sex/NC-17Bible.htm (http://www.otoons.de/sex/NC-17Bible.htm)
Quote from: OshO
But freedom brings great responsibility.
And I am trying to make you free, not only from fascist types of structures. I am trying to free you from Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mohammedanism, all religions. They are all fascist, because their basic idea is belief. They destroy your reason, they destroy your inquiry, they destroy your intelligence. They give you borrowed, centuries-old rubbish and call it knowledge. You call the BIBLE holy and every day you worship it, with great respect, without knowing that this is the most pornographic book in the whole world. If the Supreme Court of America is really fair, the BIBLE should be X-rated. But the same is the situation of other religious scriptures. All are pornography. I want you to be free from any ideology so that you can be yourself and you can search and you can go into the unknown. That inquiry into the unknown is such an ecstasy, such a great excitement -- the only pilgrimage.
:o
where the f*ck where those lines in the books I read. Clearly, I lacked infos, hence needed to shut my shit filled fan.
My bad.
I'll be on my rug...
Quote from: Havazhyol on September 13, 2013, 02:30:04 PM
:o
where the f*ck where those lines in the books I read. Clearly, I lacked infos, hence needed to shut my shit filled fan.
My bad.
I'll be on my rug...
Havazhyol all opinions are valid.
One of my major themes is the difference between argument and just yelling at each other.
Argument is the presentation of differing points of view in an attempt to change other peoples ideas on a concept.
Please don't go and sulk on your rug.
I'm just very aware that you can find god smiting this and smiting that all through the old testament, which for me is not a very good example to be giving for a religion that claims to be all peaceful, and socially responsible (but that's another thread completely).
;D
Quote from: Havazhyol on September 13, 2013, 02:30:04 PM
:o
where the f*ck where those lines in the books I read. Clearly, I lacked infos, hence needed to shut my shit filled fan.
My bad.
I'll be on my rug...
Dude; you are hereby sentence by the spirit of high dudeness to a few burgers, a few beers, and 50 chants of "nothing is fucked here, dude, nothing fucked." ...and of course, zesty coitus after. ;D(http://dudeism.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
...please report back to us when you're done. 8)
No worry dudes, I'm not into sulking or crying for being corrected when the antithesis to my thesis is well builded (as it has just occured).
When said "I'll be on my rug." it forecasted your sentence DigitalBuddha.
Meekon5 I read most of our posts on the forum. I completly dig your style.
Quote from: Havazhyol on September 26, 2013, 09:26:25 AM
No worry dudes, I'm not into sulking or crying for being corrected when the antithesis to my thesis is well builded (as it has just occured).
When said "I'll be on my rug." it forecasted your sentence DigitalBuddha.
Meekon5 I read most of our posts on the forum. I completly dig your style.
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7131/66421926facebooklike.jpg)