Islamic antics going too far: a look into our reaction to their reaction

[Hominid]

Good article here by Sam Harris: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/on-the-freedom-to-offend-an-imaginary-god

Stay with me for a sec here: Women can dress in any manner they want, and sexual aggression towards them is the total responsibility of the aggressor.  Why the double standard with religious people? Why not apply the same principle to religious aggressors who are provoked by movies, cartoons, and books? Why are WE being asked to curtail our freedom of expression so as not to provoke religious anger, when we wouldn't dare ask a woman to lengthen her skirt or cover her cleavage?

It's a double standard, to which I offer an explanation: it's the party that is the most angry that gets the rules bent their way. I personally think Muslims should give their heads a shake, and that our governments should have strictly enforced non-tolerance policies in regards to religious activism/terrorism, but that's me...

[Stever]

I dont think mooslums have any sense of humor at all...Am I wrong?

[Hominid]

I dont think mooslums have any sense of humor at all...Am I wrong?

Well, they do laugh when infidels are blown to bits.  That count?

[DigitalBuddha]

Proud infidel, here.

[Boston Rockbury]

It's double fuckin standards man.

I'm gonna fight for the right to ask women to lengthen (that's surprisingly hard to spell) their skirts.

Or maybe I'll just have a drink and a little nap instead.

[Stever]

Yeah..longer skirts,and less cleavage...its so distracting,when you are trying to bowl!

[BikerDude]

In my opinion this entire episode is just another illustration of why religion is a force that runs contrary to our basic freedoms. It is incompatible with the kind of society that intelligent humans would eventually create.
Religion is the problem and both the people who require tolerance and those who would infringe on our freedoms are dicks.
But that's just like my opinion man.

And it's not just Islam.
If a guy in Texas made a film showing Jesus being gay how long do you think it would take before he ended up dragged behind a pickup by a noose? The film about Mohammed had him being gay.
So their version of fundamentalist redneck asswipes acted just like our version of the same.

Not sure about what the official position of the Government should be.
Ideally I think they should stand up for freedom of speech.
But of course we need to consider that there are people over seize who's lives are in jeopardy. It's a question of whether the actions are motivated by Ideals or by practicality. Perhaps there is no up side to inflaming tensions.  

Cleavage and leg is way cool!
It should be encouraged. Except perhaps at funerals and other such times.

[Hominid]

I just finished two books: 1) Letter to A Christian Nation by Sam Harris, and 2) The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.  In both works, the authors both state the obvious, as you do BD, that the root problem is religion. As one dude said, take away religion and bad people will still be bad, good people will still be good, but for good people to do bad things you need religion.

The PROBLEM is the non-negotiable nature of hard core religious people, particularly in the middle east where there is incredible social and family pressure to maintain "the faith". Add to that their passionate emotional make-up, and you have a powder keg ready to explode at a moment's notice.

Until the common goal of peace becomes our top priority over being "right", we'll continue this mayhem. Specifically, until Islam is cut off at the knees, they will continue to obey the Koran by killing infidels, and following its dictate of converting the world to Islam.  To them, there is no middle ground...

[Boston Rockbury]

Thing is some religions such as: shamanism, druidism, dudeism, buddhism, wicca, sufism and what have you are pretty cool. They often encourage people to work together, reflect on sorting out their own shit, develop a mellow state of being, live with more awareness etc'. Don't really see the value in attacking all religions or religion in itself. Richard Dawkins is the most uptight dude on earth - even more uptight than me!

[Hominid]

Thing is some religions such as: shamanism, druidism, dudeism, buddhism, wicca, sufism and what have you are pretty cool. They often encourage people to work together, reflect on sorting out their own shit, develop a mellow state of being, live with more awareness etc'. Don't really see the value in attacking all religions or religion in itself. Richard Dawkins is the most uptight dude on earth - even more uptight than me!

The "religions" you list are more philosophical approaches to life than they are dogmatic, canon-based belief structures. In the western world, they attract people of that ilk; libertarian lefties who buck the trend and take ownership of their own growth and evolution.  The right-wing conservatives attract the more old-school religious types who believe in the old bearded man upstairs.

Apart from the difference between the two, don't we all want the world to believe what we do?  After all, it would be a better place if they did...

Just playing devil's advocate. 

[Boston Rockbury]

It might be possible to combine the libertarian, community spirited vibe of the left with the personal responsibility vibe of the right.

Then you would have a whole new groovy way of being - we could call it 'Dudeism' or something.

[Hominid]

It might be possible to combine the libertarian, community spirited vibe of the left with the personal responsibility vibe of the right.

Then you would have a whole new groovy way of being - we could call it 'Dudeism' or something.

Let's work on that...

"Hey Oliver!!!!!!!!!"

[BikerDude]

Thing is some religions such as: shamanism, druidism, dudeism, buddhism, wicca, sufism and what have you are pretty cool. They often encourage people to work together, reflect on sorting out their own shit, develop a mellow state of being, live with more awareness etc'. Don't really see the value in attacking all religions or religion in itself. Richard Dawkins is the most uptight dude on earth - even more uptight than me!

I admit that it seems more a problem of "Deification".
Even though what we have here with Dudeism is more of a parody of religion, how many of us have grown attached enough that if we are honest about it would feel a personal insult when the character of the Dude is disrespected? (Obviously it's not like it would be for a Christian when Jesus is disrespected or similarly in Islam with Mohammed but it's real)
The deification thing has another interesting consequence.
By giving an embodiment to ideas somehow it seems to free the adherent to attach whatever they want to the embodiment. Hence the prevalence of Christians in the military. In fact one can barely be non christian and have anything like a career in the military. I can find nothing in christian ethics that in anyway promotes or even allows for militarism.
And if people here are honest about it they can see that we really do tend to shift the definition of what is "Dude" and what is "Abiding" on a purely personal basis. The Dude, or Jesus or Mohammed seem to become an empty vessel that people fill with what suits them at the time. Consequently when someone disrespects it the believer takes it personally.
Because it is personal. They have constructed the Deity based on nothing else but personal beliefs no matter how dogmatic the religion is.
Sure the religion acts to guide the beliefs but it seems pretty open ended.

[Hominid]

Because it is personal. They have constructed the Deity based on nothing else but personal beliefs no matter how dogmatic the religion is.

Insightful point, and it explains the passion (read: anger) that inflames certain individuals towards justified violence.  To take it one step further, it seems that the Abrahamic religions have more of a corner on such violence, in contrast to the more evolved philosophies that say "Fuck it - let's go bowling" attitude after a small rant.

[Boston Rockbury]

I believe that Dudeism is both an 'empty vessel' that can be filled with the personal values of any particular dude and at the same time something that has its own independent if imperfectly defined vibe. As the French thinker Roland Barthes said it is both a 'readerly' and a 'writerly' text i.e. intention and meaning are both contained within it and projected onto it.

Within this here groovy dudeist community we find enough common dude-ground to link us together in a way that I think has a pretty cool combination of friendship and challenge.