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Author Topic: Moving Dudeism Forwards  (Read 240997 times)

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pirate

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2011, 06:59:46 AM »
well for me dudeism is my way of dealing with what life throws at me, i work in the oil industry and before i found dudeism i would sometimes get stressed out if the job was going all wrong, as far as the big lebowski and dudesim is concerned for me they have nothing to do with one another apart from the fact that dudeism was inspired by the character the dude and his ethos, dont get me wrong i like the movie but it has nothing to do with dudeism as far as i am concerned, i do have a goatee beard but i have done for the last 16 years, i dont wear a robe (i dont even wear one) i am a biker so i wear my dudeist patches on my leather waistcoat, i dont own or wear sandals but prefer trtainers or big heavy boots....what i am saying is that i dont conform to the image of a dudeist which has been portayed by TBL and our ties to it, i dont go around spouting of quotes from TBL but i am more likely to be heard spouting quotes from monty python movies......essentialy what i am trying to say is that yes i am a dudeist but i am not trying to be "the dude" i am just "a dude" who does his own thing.
I think that dudeism needs to distance itself from the movie because if it does not then it will only ever be seen as a bunch of movie geeks even though i know that lebowskists and dudeists are different there are others who might not and some who might be put off dudeism because they see it as such a thing.
in regards to keeping the christians out......well i always thought dudeism as for anyone regardless of their current faith or culture

Rev. Ed C

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2011, 11:36:22 AM »
Pirate, another Brit, there, encapsulating a pre-Lebowski dude-way.  Thanks for piping up there, man! 8)

I've been sensing a recent pattern regarding how non-Americans take to the concept of Dudeism when put into a context with TBL.  They all love the movie, but not as many seem to think that The Dude, as a character, speaks to them as much as it does for Americans.  Which is only natural.

"Dudes" in the UK are very different, culturally, to Dudes in the US, although we share the same sensibilities at the heart of it as being a bunch of "nice people who love to get on with others and not to stress and bow to trends over their individualism and personal peace of mind".

Something I've heard from at least two other Brits apart from myself in as many days is "I am A Dude, not THE Dude".  Which is perhaps a reaction to the tendency to follow in the footsteps of The Dude some people seem to paint themselves as all about, as opposed to groovin' to their own Dude way.

Once again, I won't want a split between Lebowskiists and non-Lebowskiists, I don't want to start dividing things down international lines here.  But, there are gaps I think need highlighting and filling in.  We need to start tying a few of those strands in our collective head together :)
Large chunks of my Dudeist philosophies can be found in my Dudespaper column @
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SpaceDog

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2011, 02:06:39 PM »
Pirate! You took the damn words outta my mouth & i wrote a piece yesterday saying the very same thing!

As I don't come on here often, I'll say keep this up, gents.
"Those who realize their folly are not true fools" - Chuang Tzu

forumdude

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2011, 03:06:57 PM »
I dig what all of you are saying. I think each of you has a point and I'm grateful for all the opinions and enthusiasm.

Let me take this opportunity to allay any and all of the fears that have been expressed. Dudeism is not dependent on Lebowski in any way. It is merely inspired by it. For the moment, The Big Lebowski functions as a sort of easily-accessible framework for people to instantly "grok" what we're all about. But it is just a finger pointing at the moon (as the honorable Rev. Meekon pointed out). Once Dudeism matures I think we can begin distancing ourselves from Lebowskian iconography, or maybe just salt it with other Dudeist myths/characters/icons/etc.

I realize that the whole Lebowski thing sometimes rubs certain Dudeists the wrong way, but it's been such an excellent tool for attracting the Dudeists out there that I think it would be premature to distance ourselves from it. It even occurred to me today that perhaps in the future we might slowly shift the name "Dudeism" to "Abidism" given that Abidism sounds a bit like Buddhism so the almighty power of the pun would not be squandered. Just a thought. Dudeism has a nicer ring to it though.  Still, we can't get too hung up on the literal stuff. That's what was the undoing of many other religions.

I would also like to assure all the Christ-fearers out there that Dudeism will never become a branch of Christianity and that if we often parody Judeo-Christianity in our materials and what have you it's only because most of our followers are familiar with that stuff. If we started joking around with Buddhist terminology (samsara, samana, samahdhi, bhikkuni, moksha, tanha, etc) we'd probably just confuse people. But the point is, the terminology and the puns exist mostly just to have a bit of a laugh while still orienting would-be Dudeists towards seeing Dudeism as a religion. Nevertheless, I still maintain that we should welcome any folks who want to discuss overlaps with Dudeism and other religions, including Jesusy ones.

One thing that has been really cool in watching Dudeism grow is that for the most part people seem to implicitly understand what it is all about and there have been very few threats to its integrity from folks who think it should be something other that what it is. I've had to do very little work to "husband" or "steward" or "prune" the unfolding of all this. I take comfort in that. Makes me feel all warm inside.

Most of all, I truly dig that you all feel so passionate about it. Kudos to Rev. Ed and his flowing beardy prose and petitioning. It was great to meet he and Meekon in London. I hope to meet more of you some day.

I'll tell you what I'm blathering about...

forumdude

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2011, 04:15:40 PM »
oh, sorry, forgot to address the most important part - should we aggressively grow dudeism? or should we let it grow on its own, organically? i think the middle path is in order. we should definitely come up with ways to spread the dude word (i will be rolling out some new features very soon, now that phase one of the documentary is over - including "the rug" and "abide university"). but i don't think we need to worry too much about it. dudeism is growing at a nice stately pace. hopefully once the abide guide gets some more exposure it will do a lot toward getting the word out, and without anyone having to lift a finger (except for our publisher).

in regards to working on the canon, i agree that this is something that could be worked on. it's all a question of pace though. everyone is free to do what they wish to promote dudeism and try and come up with texts and the like. no one need feel that there's any hurry or that it's incumbent upon them to contribute.

still, once some of these new things roll out i think that we'll speed up a bit whether we want to or not! the flow has a pace of her own. we should all surf it, pacifically.  thankee.
I'll tell you what I'm blathering about...

cckeiser

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2011, 04:20:14 PM »

One thing that has been really cool in watching Dudeism grow is that for the most part people seem to implicitly understand what it is all about and there have been very few threats to its integrity from folks who think it should be something other that what it is. I've had to do very little work to "husband" or "steward" or "prune" the unfolding of all this. I take comfort in that. Makes me feel all warm inside.


My point exactly. TBL has led everyone of us here...we are not confused as to the distinction between The Big Lebowski and Dudeism...why would anyone else be? The Big Lebowski is both the magnet and the filter.
The only problem I see...and i am as guilty of it as anyone...is we do not incorporate the Tao of The Dude De Ching as much as we should or could.
I mean...what does the Tao of the Dude De Ching have to say about our current discussion here? Can we take any comfort from its lessons? Can we Up The Tao?

http://dudeism.com/tao/

How about:
14. Tying the Room Together
Looked at but cannot be seen ? it is a worthy fucking adversary;
Listened to but cannot be heard ? it is a stonewalling little brat;
Grasped at but cannot be touched ? it floats off across the sky.
There is no bottom, nor the proper nomenclature,
All these strands make it a very complicated case.
In its rising, darkness warshes over,
In its falling, new shit comes to light:
A continuous blathering that cannot be told about.
Drawing a line in the sand,
It does not split hairs,
It throws out a ringer for a ringer,
There is no literal connection,
Down through the ages, across the ash-cans of time.
Not living in the past, but forgetting what day it is, and abiding at the finals;
In this way, Dudeness perpetuates itself.


Tao Te Ching: 14. The Continuity of Tao
The saints said: ?Praise and blame cause anxiety;
The objects of hope and fear are within your Self.?
?Praise and blame cause anxiety?
For you must hope and fear to receive or to lose them.
?The objects of hope and fear are within your Self?
For, without Self, neither fortune nor disaster can befall.
Therefore:
He who regards the World as the Self is able to control the World;
He who loves the World as the Self is able to nurture the World.
Looked at but cannot be seen ? it is beyond form;
Listened to but cannot be heard ? it is beyond sound;
Grasped at but cannot be touched ? it is beyond reach;
These depthless things evade definition,
And blend into a single mystery.
In its rising there is no light,
In its falling there is no darkness,
A continuous thread beyond description,
Lining what can not exist,
Its form formless,
Its image nothing,
Its name mystery,
Meet it, it has no face,
Follow it, it has no back.
Understand the past, but attend the present;
In this way you know the continuity of Tao,
Which is its essence.


Or maybe:
22. Can?t Be Worried About That Shit
Abide and you achieve,
Spare and you strike,
Drink and you are drunken,
Take it up with the man, you got a man down,
A life of achievement, and didn?t do very well at it,
Forget about the fucking toe!
Nothing about it indicates.
The Stranger accepts the World,
As the World accepts the Dude;
He narrates the film, so is clearly heard;
Does not self-apply a name, so remains unknown;
Has never been to London or France,
But can die with a smile on his face without feelin? like the good lord gypped him;
Because he does not eat the bar, the bar does not eat him,
He does not curse, so no one curses him.
The Stranger said, ?Take it easy, Dude?I know that you will.?
Yeah man.  Well, you know, the Dude abides.
The Dude Abides.

Tao Te Ching: 22. Acceptance and Contention
Accept and you become whole,
Bend and you straighten,
Empty and you fill,
Decay and you renew,
Want and you acquire,
Fulfill and you become confused.
The sage accepts the World
As the World accepts Tao;
He does not display himself, so is clearly seen,
Does not justify himself, so is famed,
Does not boast, so is credited,
Does not glory, so excels,
Does not contend, so no one contends against him.
The saints said, ?Accept and you become whole?,
Once whole, the World is as your home.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 05:51:06 PM by cckeiser »
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cakebelly

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2011, 06:04:45 PM »
I'll come back to this, soon - got other shit to shovel, right now - but I will say that I like 'Abideism' a lot.  8)

Rev. Gary (revgms)

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2011, 06:23:05 PM »
This thread needs a disclaimer; "bring an extra limber mind, or enter at your own peril".

Boil it down, take er easy, what ever you do or don't do, remember to take it easy, boiled further, abide.

You can't build, or allow Dudeism to grow, the wrong way if, in what you do, you do abidingly. Or don't do abidingly.

Dudeism/abiding is like obscenity, probably impossible to describe, but you know it when you see it.

SpaceDog

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2011, 02:37:46 AM »
Abidism! Yeah, baby!

For my twopenneth, let Dudeism/Abidism grow organically as it has done. People will come as they have done & if they haven't found it then they are probably LIVING it instead.

Word of mouth & online stumbling has done well so far.

I would never wish to "convert" any droogie.

One more thing, maybe us Brits should call ourselves THE ABIDE SOCIETY, as a wee satirical/anarchic pun on our glorious political leader Big Headed Dave.

Just a thought ...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 03:12:21 AM by Reverend Dog »
"Those who realize their folly are not true fools" - Chuang Tzu

Rev. Ed C

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2011, 03:42:48 AM »
When Rev. Dog asked me to write an article on Dudeism for his online magazine last year, I actually, without thinking, didn't include anything about TBL at all.  He had to put that in himself for the intro, just to make the connection:

http://pulpmetalmagazine.wordpress.com/2010/07/04/abiding-with-a-dudeist-by-rev-ed-churchman/#more-288

In fact, it was ol' Dog himself who created the title of the article, because I plum forgot to do it myself!  "Abiding with a Dudeist".

There was a great comment at the end by a reader who had said:
Quote
?You have to find your own happiness in life, but with that comes the realisation of what really does make you happy, not what you merely perceive to do so.?

Great stuff here. I?ve been terribly curious about this? religion, and your description has satisfied my wonderings.

Just shows that you can attract people in with the Dudely message even if you don't use The Dude.

However, like I keep saying, this is not about canning the TBL side, it's just about softening the focus, as at times it seems that it's all automatic movie quotes and not much more.  We just need to be able to show our other side to the world at large, rather than hide it behind our more, dare I say it (as a prime, major-geek myself)... geeky side.  Never should be blunt the irreverence of our ethos, but we need to make it seem more of an irreverant way of life than an out-and-out joke, as many on the outside see it when it looks like a Lebowskifest that's gone on too long :)

We've had a really great growth of this thing, and no one's can force it in any direction, but part of our growth process is talking, and that's what we're doing here.

Also, thanks for Forumdude for piping in.  I wasn't going to quote him directly or speak for him, but I just wanted to start the ball rolling on the sort of things we had discussed last week to gauge the thoughts of the community and see where this train of thought might take us all.
Large chunks of my Dudeist philosophies can be found in my Dudespaper column @
http://dudespaper.com/section/columns/dude-simple/

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

cckeiser

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2011, 07:24:48 AM »
Ok, I think I can guess what happened. You dudes went out in the real world to make your little documentary and the hoopleheaded Christians laughed at you. Did they make fun of you? Did they Sneer? Did they make you feel inferior?
So now; after you spent all this time trying to weave Taoism and TBL into Dudeism...now you want to try and un-weave it. You want to get "Respectable".
I think what you want in Abideism is something more akin to Tao Dudeism. A new interpretation of the Tao based more heavily on the Tao and a whole lot less on TBL...a higher Degree of Dudeism if you will. We can have basic Dudeism tied to TBL to attract the more intelligent from Lebowskism, then a degree higher would come Abideism/Tao Dudeism. A more simple Tao without without all the double talk...something a dude could understand and embrace.
(BTW...I prefer Tao Dudeism to Abideism; but that is like just my opinion dude.) Tao Dudeism would be more like a Feng Shui for living...not just for your desk and house, but for a way of living your life...an un-cluttering...removing obstacles that block the smooth flow of Qi to comfort and joy in you life. Learning to live life for life's sake. To unburden those things/habits/ways of thinking that cause unhappiness...and only accumulate those that bring comfort, joy and happiness into your life. A new simple way of takin' er easy...of Abiding.

Am I wrong?...Well then...we got our work cut out for us then...a Swiss fuckin' watch...

« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 07:49:53 AM by cckeiser »
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Rev. Gary (revgms)

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2011, 07:58:41 AM »
I'm just looking forward to the Council of Dudeia, when we all get together, drink lots of White Russians, smoke mad quantities of Js, and battle this out as Dudeists. That sounds like so much fun, certainly more fun than that meeting they had at Nicaea a long while back.

We should start planning that now, for like in two years(no need to rush), plenty of time for Dudes to plan. A chillapolooza.

BikerDude

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2011, 08:24:21 AM »
Aha!
It will happen even here.
We are likely to spawn a protestant Dudeist movement. A split amongst the ranks.
Those who hold to the purist lebowskian canon and those who welcome change.
Personally I take comfort in Abidance in such matters.

I don't care if people take Dudeism as a joke.
In a world of every type of religious reactionaries pissing on our rugs I find Dudeism to be a much more comfortable bathrobe.

Out here we are all his children

Rev. Ed C

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2011, 08:31:21 AM »
OK, I think I can guess what happened. You dudes went out in the real world to make your little documentary and the hoopleheaded Christians laughed at you. Did they make fun of you? Did they Sneer? Did they make you feel inferior?

Jeez man, what the hells are you on?  You need to change your supplier, because I think he's sold you some bad shit there :)  Change the record...

This is the UK, man, there are no Christians here, they're an endangered species :P

Almost all the people we dealt with were Atheists and Agnostics.  Guys that had their own flavour on the offbeat philosophy, be it the Idlers or the Absurdist author.  Apparently, according to Meekon, one guy's muttered comment from the back during the talk was "Why don't these guys grow up?" or something along those lines.  That was Wednesday, after I started to highlight this on Monday.

Now, that doesn't phase us, but it does highlight a point that the image of slacking off and shirking is not an ideal to sell this on, and the problem with using The Dude as a figurehead is that he's seen, from the outset, as a bum, and people aren't easily persuaded by the Dudeist argument that he's a man you should all be like.

Once again, on the inside, we know we're idolising the easygoing nature of The Dude, and whathaveyou, and not the workshy nature he embodies.  
Now, I don't know what's going on Stateside, but other here, we're a secular nation with a more curmudgeonly philosophical view.  Most of our freethinking radicals were all about getting on with the job without being bogged down in all the crap of politics and society.  We don't have Christian lobbies and entwined religious views in our politics and media (for the most part).

In the UK, we should have been effectively preaching to the choir, but sadly, all the people we thought would be onside with us found some of what we had to offer a little unpalatable, and I think it's obvious why... Once we'd talked more about the wider philosophy and practice outside of being an extention of a never-ending Lebowskifest, more of those people were onboard with what we were really about.

To take it back to the US then, what do you think your freethinkers would do if you'd have told them, in life, they were marked as Great Dudes in history?  What would Vonnegut or Hicks or Carlin or Twain think about the Dudeism movement?  If we're modelling ourselves on people like this, don't we want to perhaps move more into their spirit than that of a cult movie fanbase?

Check this out: http://dudeism.com/greatdudes/

Ever since I've been a member of this religion, that page has been the same, no changes.  And where is The Dude?  4th down the page, poignantly in the mix, not leading the conga line.

There's a wider thing here we need to start promoting.

And once again... leave the Christians out of this, man.  Stop dragging the Christians into this.  No one is mentioning the Goddamn Christians but you, CC :P  Forget ye not, one one gives a shit about the fuckin' marmot... I mean, Christians... They're out of their element here :D
Large chunks of my Dudeist philosophies can be found in my Dudespaper column @
http://dudespaper.com/section/columns/dude-simple/

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

Rev. Ed C

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Re: Moving Dudeism Forwards
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2011, 08:34:48 AM »
I don't care if people take Dudeism as a joke.
In a world of every type of religious reactionaries pissing on our rugs I find Dudeism to be a much more comfortable bathrobe.

It's not about taking it as a joke... I mean, life's a joke.  We don't want people who only want to take it seriously coming in here.  We want the light-heared, fun-loving, laid-back folks to come in and laugh with us.

What we don't want is people thinking there's no value in it, especially when some of these people are essentially with us, but feel the whole "movie-worship" thing is a detriment, not an asset.

Once again, this isn't about removing Lebowski, it's about not playing the videotape on a loop.  The movie may never get old, but the tape its on will wear out eventually :P
Large chunks of my Dudeist philosophies can be found in my Dudespaper column @
http://dudespaper.com/section/columns/dude-simple/

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

 

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