The Dudeism Forum

Hi dudes, found some more of exhausting things... sorry ^^
Still, I do hope you'll give your point of view about that.


Defining right and wrong is one of the basics of any religious work. For big part it's all about it. So my first step as a dudeist, after I had some fun I confess,  is thinking about : what is right or wrong, dude or undude, does it involves taboos ? (let's keep that for later maybe)

I've spent some time reading you guys and so far I know dudeism is on this subject into something like :
"There's a lot of grey areas into that, to much to tell what is right or wrong" which is damn right I guess
"In the end it's quite difficult to even say "good" and "bad" have a real sense" which is true too but sounds nihilist
"There are dude stuffs and also undude stuffs" but it's not much defined.

Personally I'm not into nihilism and I believe it's in fact quite easy to say for most things what is right or wrong. I abide having so few guiding lines smells like freedom and that's nice. But I'm pretty sure these guidelines exist anyway, at least around us. Not considering them wont make them disappear.

If Dudeism is an open source religion, I'm thinking maybe it could be useful to work on that part of the "code". I believe it's an easy thing to do because it makes years, decades, I use the following system and, so far I experienced it and saw other humans using it too, it works like a charm. So I'm like, let's see what you think about this part of "code".  It's some kind of basic one, like a part of the core of the operating system, with lot of applications depending on it. There's nothing new about it mostly, it's just about the way to put it. I think it's a good way cause it uses low memory and few CPU capacities :


Our liberty ends where the suffering of others begins.
It is indeed quiet close to "Do No Harm" code which is quite shorter for sure, and maybe the same at the end. But it adds some interesting functionalities... like helping to define liberty too and its connection to morality.

I don't know how to add the following in the initial code... I'm really happy to have learned here about the Do No Harm movement as I practiced "do no harm, leave no trace" since years because of a sport that has this etho in its DNA. With time, reality demonstrates to guys a wiser etho  : "Be aware about how harmful you are, know what traces you leave, and find ways to limit it to the minimum possible". We call it the "Know Trace" in opposition of the "No Trace" thing, we had to because that's just the obvious and witnessed reality : we always do have an impact. Maybe "Do No Harm, Know Trace" would be a niece piece of code too.

Anyway, thanks to this single easy idea I can make lists of dead wrong stuffs, like a Spanish inquisitor. Awesome !
Bring the stake and...



Killing is bloody wrong
Murders, slaughters, genocides, wars etc are horrors.
No matter what's the reason, it's beings dying in pain. And the way it happens is rarely as clean as TV shows.

One of the worst shit around is provoking pain / traumas
Torture, rape, pedophilic acts, harassment, either violence done is physical and/or mental, it's unspeakably wrong. These aggressions will not stand man !

Premeditation and planning are aggravating factor
It expresses the will to act and involves having time to avoid it. Crime becomes then a choice, a strong will, and so it demonstrates how fucked up is the criminal.

Mental manipulation is an aggravating factor
manipulating the victim to obtain her/his acceptance, or even ascent, doesn't change a shit about the fact she/he is a victim and suffers. This kind of manipulation is just, like, despicable barbarism.

The age of victims is an aggravating factor
Whatever is the age. Reasons are different but true : Children are innocent, they can be cruel morons, but they are innocent so long adults don't pollute them with there shits, they should have a future without suffering all their life for what traumatized them. Young men shouldn't get traumatized, injured, killed somewhere on the planet for oil or other bullshits. Old ladies are maybe less innocent than children but as much inoffensive, fragile...

There are some special shits too
Cause man can be freakin inventive. For example cannibalism, necrophilia... I'm the kind to think corpses should be respected. And animals too. Everything can be applied to animals.

Darkness has shades
Brrr sounds esoteric... killing is not the same thing to being a mass killers, a soldier, self defending our-self, hunting rabbits or walking on an ant whiteout noticing. There are shades of badness. I guess there are shades of goodness too.


So OK now I got a system of belief in which I believe I can trust (...) at least it looks good enough to do no shits that could hurt others and it's very compatible with almost any society. Wouhou I'm not a menace to society ! That's a good start but maybe can I do better, can I become better man, like, a dude.


Good things are just the opposite, nothing apparently simpler.
If harm / pain is bad, protect / well being is good. Something like that.
Saving life is good, protecting people or biodiversity is good too. In fact reacting in opposition to any bullshit told above looks good.
But it's not that simple, it's like, more complex than that, uh. We can ask our self if manipulating for a positive purpose is a bad thing or not, it can sound wrong but when you got kids you know you got to manipulate them in order to make them understand enough about life to not do too many bullshits in the neighborhood, or at least at home. That's what parents do : they give an education to their kids, and education is mostly a mental manipulation.

There are also stuffs that are kind of neutral by itself, but can get really good or end really bad too.
An example we know well about : Slacking can be awesome, too much slacking, or keep being passive in front of something wrong happening : not so good.


Just one more opinion : Good or neutral, or what, all in all it's up to us and even if defining worst shits in human behavior is useful, letting decide each human what good is to him is an huge need too. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, why shouldn't it be OK. Predicting what's good in life is boring to death, we need unexpected things to feel alive, that's how we are done. So good things are the perfect "spectrum" to avoid defining whatever and let whatever happen. Which brings some more equilibrium : things are clear about the worst, the bad, and can get ameliorated, but the good is the unknown, roll your ball ! So to me the code doesn't need much more to be greatly operating.


If abiding is about walking on the middle path, finding our equilibrium, I guess the conclusion is acceptable.


Any idea to argue this system or make it better ?
Other systems ?

Thanks by advance

For me Dudeism is open to interpretation, instead of prophecy it's more in tune to personal  philosophy.  I know what is wrong in my personal life and what is right. It doesn't have to be difficult, after all I see Religion as being a ways to FINDING meaning and or happiness in life not MAKING IT. I absolutely love The Big Lebowski but, is the Dude the best roll model for me? No. It's the idea of how he lives his life that is so appealing. I see him as a "Fuck it" type of guy and  being as I stress quite easily, I want that in my life , well actually need it!  I'm just a bud smoking,whiskey drinking, hanging out type of guy that never found that religious are spiritual guide. Dudeism is the closest I've found as to filling that void. No church on sundays, no prayers to remember it's just me being me, being Dude like!

'be excellent to eachother; party on dudes!'

    not that the lines don't exist, i'd think it would be more that, to just not stress/worry about it. if your a good dude abiding, doing your own shit then you should be fine, and if something happens that's unjust/unchecked aggression than you'll know.
    a metaphor would be like.. someone overly vigilant that actually worries, tries to make plans for unknown/random events, what if someone ran into the office with a molotov in the middle of a meeting? or some guy drives a car thru a mall, or an explosion because of a gas leak etc. if there's some point you feel you cant stop your self from killing a dog for no reason(or whatever, or see someone/feel like someones going down a path might lead to something happening), then yea you have something serious to think about but until then why worry?
    to put it simply, if your not in nam, why worry about the man in the black pajamas?

Hi dudes

Quotesomeone overly vigilant that actually worries, tries to make plans for unknown/random events

I do deeply agree ! That's why I only care here about deep bullshits and even add that I think good things should never been listed the same way. That's also why about bad things I express there are shades in darkness and aggravating factors : there's no way we can be exhaustive and all this moral system is just a helping guideline to have a better response when precisely thing are going bad and we got to make up our mind.


Plus, I don't know one religion, not one, without harsh stories. When they hear "catholic priest" most people think pedophilia, stakes and religious wars. And there's no label : forced marriage, rape, harassment, people can think about a lot of religion and sects.

A young religion in construction has an incredible chance : nothing bad has been done yet and it can be written down what has to be avoided.
I see at least 2 good reasons for this :
A- It can avoid some idiots to do bullshits, or to come into Dudeism because it would not stand with what they like to do in life.
B- If they bullshit anyway it's obvious it has nothing to do with Dudeism because the church has expressed these kind of aggression are not acceptable.

    to quote american dad 'Thirst isn't a war that can be won or lost; it's an ongoing dialogue between beverage and man.' thirst being a metaphor for religion in this use. um, i would say for alot of dudeist, abideist' especially religion isnt something that needs to be won, if something else works for someone else, if they leave you be/let you do your thing it doesnt really matter.
    i mean thats part of abiding for me in just letting them do their thing, if they golf instead of bowl, they arent me its not my choice, as long as they dont pee on my carpet, or anyones carpet really.(this being metaphor for actual crime, like rape/assault/homocide/theft/abuse you know things that hurt people/animals/property)
    as far as people doing bad things and giving dudeism a bad name by association, atleast what has happened historically say the crusades/witch trials etc etc.. eventhough in 10 commandments says you know about not killing are still heavily associated as christian acts although could be deduced that being they were to not kill, those people were not properly following and therefore not actually christians/atleast not proper followers, i mean if they say its fine because they are non believers, being thats not actually written as okay, its their own idea i.e. heresy. even if the follower is only self proclaimed, the general public will still associate the religion of claim, to the acts; regardless of their being written/established rules before.

Too many strands for the old duder's head...

Hi Hominid, yes it is exhausting.
You know, young believers, boys will be boys etc.

Quote from: dinscurge on July 27, 2015, 11:40:16 AMeventhough in 10 commandments says you know about not killing are still heavily associated as christian acts although could be deduced that being they were to not kill, those people were not properly following and therefore not actually christians/atleast not proper followers, i mean if they say its fine because they are non believers, being thats not actually written as okay, its their own idea i.e. heresy.

Yes indeed, that's why 10 commandments were in my mind slacking thinking about this : it may became what you describe precisely because it was written the way it is.

1 Be a sheep.
2 If you pray in front of a false idol God gonna screw you and your family for generations, if you suck Him, He'll be pleased and nice.
3 God is a trade mark, don't use it for your own business, if you do you gonna pay.
4 You got a day off each week, but you'll spend it being devoted and good (other days you know...)

That's not only the first laws, so the most important, but also the ones of the first board. I guess that explains why it can be felt that non blievers don't deserve much to be protected by the other board.
Detail : God writes big.

Second board :

5 Be good with your parents.
6 Don't commit murder, finally ! 6th position and it doesn't say just "don't kill", warfare, capital punishment and self-defence that's OK
7 Don't commit adultery. You know the old "sex is wrong" stuff
8 Don't steal. Which also means property is good, like if it was an actual thing and was forever...
9 Don't tell false witness against your neighbors, I guess it's OK against others so.
10 Don't covet neighbor's house and field. I guess there also had to be some urbanism rules.

To me there's no fundamental principle behind that. Nothing like a simple "code" that gives the thing understandable by itself. Like a multiplication table so we don't have to learn the whole mess but we can be able to find out the answer by our self. Like "do no harm" or other similar core principle.

    well lest say adultery, assuming they didn't marry these children, all those priests are not properly following the religion(aside from the whole gays are bad thing) and these are the people that their entire life(basically) is devoted to the religion and even they do not follow as is said in the fairly short list of actual rules the 10 commandments. like not just being a member/follower, would even be people actively/heavily involved like people on here, people that do weddings etc. that wont follow all of the rules. like unless one was to patrol the database of all the users/the ordainment status also, and kick everyone that doesn't follow 100% out, is going to be people that aren't doing everything you/they want.
    i mean it could be said that their actions were undudelike but that wouldn't totally disassociate their actions with the religion, same as with the catholic priests or anything else that has been mentioned.

if you identify as a punk the general public will still usually assume you have some sort of anarchist/libertarian/classical liberal views/beliefs; even if your not into the whole politics thing

edit: basically.. although having some sort of list/guidelines of undude things would be useful in the aspect of helping people identify behavior/maybe help them on their journey/find more balance etc. but it will never convince everyone that, this stuff doesn't happen, that there aren't dudes that do bad stuff sometimes. will be a whole group of people that it will go over just as well as when the police chief gives a press release after some cop kills a guy in questionable circumstances, where they feel like your just trying to cover your ass.
    where they will never believe them until they actually start heavily reprimanding/throwing the book at the cops that harass/assault/stalk any kind of abuse of position at all to point where like zero tolerance policy where no police organization will touch them with a 10 foot pole. cause saying you don't support those infidelities and then letting them do it anyways with nothing more than a paid vacation or they get fired to get hired by another department right after, sort of sends mixed messages.

The western religions (Judaism/Christianity/Islam) are about specific instructions, rules, lists of do's and don't's. The eastern religions tend to have a more general idea. I see Dudeism as being more inspired by the eastern paths. There isn't a list of rules that will get you kicked out if you don't follow them.
In my view, morality boils down to maximizing well being and minimizing unnecessary suffering. Dudeism provides a certain vision of what that looks like.
Be kind to others. If your landlord would really appreciate you going to his dance recital, you should go, especially if you've assured him that you'll be there.
Seek justice, but don't try to scam anybody. Take only what is rightfully yours. All the Dude wanted was his rug back.

There is that which is Dude and that which is Un-Dude.
You know it when you see it.

But it is true that this is not Nam. There are rules.
But so what. It's smokey. So his toe slipped over the line a little.