The Dudeism Forum

It's Walter time Dudes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-captured-benghazi-suspect-in-secret-raid/2014/06/17/7ef8746e-f5cf-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

Payback's a bitch. Across this line, you do not...!!

Wait, I'm confused. I thought Benghazi was a spontaneous demonstration in response to a western video critical of islam. How is there a "ringleader" for them to nab?

Quote from: jgiffin on June 17, 2014, 10:27:35 PM
Wait, I'm confused. I thought Benghazi was a spontaneous demonstration in response to a western video critical of islam. How is there a "ringleader" for them to nab?

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
The initial story was that it was a demonstration. It was in fact a coordinated attack.
This difference in the story is why we are onto our 3rd congressional inquiry now.

Back on topic.
This is the sort of thing where I think he should be given a fair trial with good representation and if found guilty the families of the deceased should be the ones to pass sentence (and carry it out if they so wish).

It was sarcasm. Just pointing out how quickly they took advantage of the circumstances. This guy was out after the incident talking to reporters and taking credit while the administration still hemmed and hawed about what percentage was spontaneous versus planned. Also, they let five terrorists go and plan to release them all by closing Gitmo but took pains to grab this one? Disingenuous, yo.

As for the trial, I dunno. He's not a US citizen; he's a foreign combatant. Bringing him here and granting full constitutional rights seems unwarranted - they don't apply to him. On the other hand, I don't trust the UN for shit and am not sure what the alternative is.

How about we resurrect trial-by-combat and see if any spec ops dude volunteers to give ole' dirty-beard a nuggie or two?

Quote from: jgiffin on June 18, 2014, 05:44:21 PM
It was sarcasm. Just pointing out how quickly they took advantage of the circumstances. This guy was out after the incident talking to reporters and taking credit while the administration still hemmed and hawed about what percentage was spontaneous versus planned. Also, they let five terrorists go and plan to release them all by closing Gitmo but took pains to grab this one? Disingenuous, yo.

As for the trial, I dunno. He's not a US citizen; he's a foreign combatant. Bringing him here and granting full constitutional rights seems unwarranted - they don't apply to him. On the other hand, I don't trust the UN for shit and am not sure what the alternative is.

How about we resurrect trial-by-combat and see if any spec ops dude volunteers to give ole' dirty-beard a nuggie or two?

Holding enemy combatants without trial is a nod to the fact that most would be expected to not have committed any crime. A prisoner of war didn't commit a crime but it's perfectly legal to hold them for the duration of the war.

Quote
In regard to the detention of detainees without charge, in section I of the O'Connor plurality opinion, the plurality relied on the time-honored traditions of war, the Geneva Convention, and a long list of other international treaties, to hold that the government had authority under the Authorization for Use of Military Force (2001) to hold any enemy combatants, provided enemy combatants had been seized on the battlefield participating in active hostilities, for the sole objective of preventing an enemy combatant from returning to the battlefield, and then only so long as there continued to be ?active hostilities.?[8] The plurality held that such protective detention could be applied to both citizen and non-citizen enemy combatants.

This guy does not in my opinion enjoy the right to be released after the end of hostilities. He and those around him committed murder. It was not active hostilities. Not even a war crime. Just plain Murder.

If they committed a crime then typically they have been tried for it. Usually in a military court.
That I'm ambivalent about. Military court is fine.
If he was speaking to reporters and what have you it's a slam dunk. It's better to do that than to sweep him off and disappear him. Give him his day. Call him a coward and flip the switch.

As for  letting people go I find it depressing that it makes any difference at all.
The longest war in US history and we are still at a place where there is a persistent enough threat that letting 5 douche bags go makes a real difference. What the hell progress have we made? I don't know. It's a tough one. If Bergdhal was a deserter then I have no sympathy.  They should have left him where he was.

We made plenty of progress, weapons suppliers find their business is booming.

I'm in a severe Walter period but, at this point, I embrace the "fuck it" approach to terrorism and, frankly, islam in general. It proceeds thusly:

1. Fuck it - you guys can have whatever countries you can take, build your caliphate, await the 12th imam, elect Hammas as your UN delegation, deny Israel should exist. Whatever. Be who you are, boo.

2. But...if you fuck with the US, attempt to fuck with the US, or harbor those who attempt to and/or do fuck with the US, then the geographical area you inhabit will be obliterated. Seriously, no holding back. Fuck collateral damage. Women? Dead. Children? Dead. Guy who sold you pirogi? Dead.

We need to realize that not all life is sacred, children are not our most precious resource, and its not our goddamn obligation to civilize savages. Leave them alone - some say they only hate us because we're there. Maybe so. Let's test that shit.

I've always been a bit put off by calling children "resources," it sounds very dehumanizing, and a concept reducing children to a mere "resource." Very undude in my way of thinking.

That's just like my opinion, man.

Quote from: jgiffin on June 19, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
I'm in a severe Walter period but, at this point, I embrace the "fuck it" approach to terrorism and, frankly, islam in general. It proceeds thusly:

1. Fuck it - you guys can have whatever countries you can take, build your caliphate, await the 12th imam, elect Hammas as your UN delegation, deny Israel should exist. Whatever. Be who you are, boo.

2. But...if you fuck with the US, attempt to fuck with the US, or harbor those who attempt to and/or do fuck with the US, then the geographical area you inhabit will be obliterated. Seriously, no holding back. Fuck collateral damage. Women? Dead. Children? Dead. Guy who sold you pirogi? Dead.

We need to realize that not all life is sacred, children are not our most precious resource, and its not our goddamn obligation to civilize savages. Leave them alone - some say they only hate us because we're there. Maybe so. Let's test that shit.

I'm with you but with a bit of concern about the progress that these guys might make toward having nukes.
It's like we inhabit a world where some societies are at about the level of sophistication that we were at when we were still burning witches. But they are at that level, in a world that has nukes.
Yikes.

There's no good scenario. I guess the only hope would be slow progress toward changing those societies but it would take a united effort and the US can't carry all the water on this. Russia, China and some European countries that still have some credibility in the mid east would have to do it.