The Dudeism Forum

Why is that islam simply cannot embrace democracy?

Does anyone know of an authentic free, open and democratic nation run by islam and Muslims?

Egyptian judges call for a nationwide strike amid protests against a decree by President Mohammed Mursi to grant himself sweeping new powers. Egypt's judges have called for a nationwide strike in protest against a decree by President Mohammed Mursi granting himself extensive new powers.

After an emergency meeting, the judges union urged Mr Mursi to retract the decree they see as an "unprecedented attack" on the judiciary. Mr Mursi says he "wants to protect the revolution." (yeah, right; nice one, Mursi! )

Look familiar? ...The guy below, the one with the funny little mustache, gave himself "extensive new powers" too, which lead to the murder of millions ...





MARK IT ZERO! - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20476693

Because the Muslim world is still in the year 1434. (They use the Hijra calendar)

Which does actually mean that despite them living in the 21st Century they are still in the dark ages. Which means that feudalism and repression is standard operating procedure.

Ruling families rule, and dole out land and tiles. Women are owned and everything is fought for.

Remember Islam "is the supreme religion" everyone else are Infidel (or devils) unless we convert then we must die.

The problem really started when oil was discovered and they became extremely rich extremely quickly...so while the Arabs love the goodies of the West and the wealth it has brought them they also see it as a way to spread the Islamic message.

Maybe the Chinese will sort it all out when they take over!

Quote from: Caesar dude on November 24, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
Because the Muslim world is still in the year 1434. (They use the Hijra calendar)

Which does actually mean that despite them living in the 21st Century they are still in the dark ages. Which means that feudalism and repression is standard operating procedure.

Ruling families rule, and dole out land and tiles. Women are owned and everything is fought for.

Remember Islam "is the supreme religion" everyone else are Infidel (or devils) unless we convert then we must die.

The problem really started when oil was discovered and they became extremely rich extremely quickly...so while the Arabs love the goodies of the West and the wealth it has brought them they also see it as a way to spread the Islamic message.

Maybe the Chinese will sort it all out when they take over!

Accurate comments on islam, C dude. And, yes; the Chinaman IS becoming the issue here, dude.

The biggest problems that our world faces are environmental, and democracy has been absolutely crap at reining in pollution and over-consumption. China's crazy one-child policy is fascist and the sort of thing that only a totalitarian regime can pull off but maybe it's this sort of thing that the world needs to reduce population levels and give the world a sustainable future. Not that I think the Chinese political system is any good - it's a pile of shite, it's just that over in the 'free world' we are doing a real good job of fucking things up whilst pointing the finger anywhere but home.

Winston Churchill once said,"Democracy is the worst system of all,except for all the others".I'd rather fuck things up our way dude than have someone else fuck it up theirs.Besides,the way the EU (4th Reich IMO) is going,we are heading towards totalitarian lite.It won't last of course because these kind of idealists never learn.Unfortunately there will be tears before bedtime.

Quote from: Zen Dog on November 25, 2012, 08:52:50 AM
Winston Churchill once said,"Democracy is the worst system of all,except for all the others".I'd rather fuck things up our way dude than have someone else fuck it up theirs.Besides,the way the EU (4th Reich IMO) is going,we are heading towards totalitarian lite.It won't last of course because these kind of idealists never learn.Unfortunately there will be tears before bedtime.

Sure Dude, I'm not saying that other systems are better than democracy (not that 2 party representational democracy is very democratic) just that that we'd be better off getting our own shit sorted rather than bitching about islam and the chinaman.

Well dude,just because we have to weed our own garden doesn't mean we shouldn't keep an eye on what's going on next door.Recently some junkies were evicted two doors away from me and not before time.Looking at the state of the house inside I'm surprised it hadn't fallen down taking the whole terrace with it.Countries are like that.

Quote from: Boston Rockbury on November 25, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
The biggest problems that our world faces are environmental, and democracy has been absolutely crap at reining in pollution and over-consumption. China's crazy one-child policy is fascist and the sort of thing that only a totalitarian regime can pull off but maybe it's this sort of thing that the world needs to reduce population levels and give the world a sustainable future. Not that I think the Chinese political system is any good - it's a pile of shite, it's just that over in the 'free world' we are doing a real good job of fucking things up whilst pointing the finger anywhere but home.

The biggest problems that our world faces are environmental, and democracy has been absolutely crap at reining in pollution and over-consumption.

What pollution are you referring to that needs "reining in," and who decides what "over-consumption" is?

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on November 24, 2012, 08:09:24 PM
Why is that islam simply cannot embrace democracy?

Does anyone know of an authentic free, open and democratic nation run by islam and Muslims?

Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt (transitional)

Because the religion (as well as Christianity) are incompatible with Democracy.
The entire dogma is simply an "our way or the highway" approach. It simply is not Democratic.
It is the antithesis of Democracy.
The greater the effects of religion on society the less free the society is.
Granted other things can also inhibit freedoms. Usually racism and radical nationalism.
But religion is the all time heavy weight champ at inhibiting freedom.
Whenever we talk about censorship and movie and game ratings and banning porn etc it's always from the religious lobbies. The religious mindset does not have any wiggle room for freedom. It imposes it's will whenever it can. Worst being Islam and Christianity.

In the west secular ideals have overcome a lot of the divisiveness and superstition but we can see the friction every day.
Abortion doctor murders, the resistance to science like stem cell research, on and on..
As Francis Shaeffer one of the founders of what we call the Evangelical movement (who later reformed and took it all back) says, the fundamentalist movement hates American and hates freedom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDGU1UGr_EE

Quote from: Boston Rockbury on December 20, 2012, 08:10:23 AM

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on November 24, 2012, 08:09:24 PM
Why is that islam simply cannot embrace democracy?

Does anyone know of an authentic free, open and democratic nation run by islam and Muslims?

Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt (transitional)

You think "Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt" are Democracies?! DUDE!!

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on December 20, 2012, 09:30:01 AM

Quote from: Boston Rockbury on December 20, 2012, 08:10:23 AM

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on November 24, 2012, 08:09:24 PM
Why is that islam simply cannot embrace democracy?

Does anyone know of an authentic free, open and democratic nation run by islam and Muslims?

Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt (transitional)

You think "Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt" are Democracies?! DUDE!!

And the  amount that they resemble democracy is due to them being led by a strictly secular government.
Typically the forces of religion would rather see that overturned in favor of religious law.
Including the US. There are plenty of people actually in government that would favor outlawing herecy.
LITERALLY. They are fundementalist Christians which means that they follow Christianity EXACTLY and LITERALLY.

So it's pretty difficult to call any free democratic society Islamic or for that matter Christian.
They are free by virtue of secular ideals and by being LESS Islamic or Christian.

Dude... the fucking United States has not embraced democracy!

That said, I couldn't care less who chooses or has imposed upon them which form of government. I wouldn't mind at all if the US was ruled by a benevolent dictator, or a progressive socialist government. What the fuck do I care what happens in government if it's not in my face? As long as I can live like I want to live, I don't have a fuck to give about what the government is called.

Democracy is not a magic bullet that somehow makes governments decent and respectable. Capitalism is not an economic model that guarantees that everyone gets a fair shake. It's all fucking dogma, man. If we can't see past the dogma of our culture (any person on Earth, in any culture) then we're just followers of the great woolly butt, pawns in games we don't even understand. And ya know what? Fuck it. People like us, the little people whose only imaginary power is that of the ballot box, we are pawns in games we don't understand. So what? My coffee tastes good this morning, and my house is warm on the inside as it ought to be. The cat is fed, my internet connection is up, and my wife loves me.

Dude, the Musselman is not the issue here.

Quote from: RighteousDude on December 20, 2012, 10:27:48 AM
Dude... the fucking United States has not embraced democracy!

That said, I couldn't care less who chooses or has imposed upon them which form of government. I wouldn't mind at all if the US was ruled by a benevolent dictator, or a progressive socialist government. What the fuck do I care what happens in government if it's not in my face? As long as I can live like I want to live, I don't have a fuck to give about what the government is called.

Democracy is not a magic bullet that somehow makes governments decent and respectable. Capitalism is not an economic model that guarantees that everyone gets a fair shake. It's all fucking dogma, man. If we can't see past the dogma of our culture (any person on Earth, in any culture) then we're just followers of the great woolly butt, pawns in games we don't even understand. And ya know what? Fuck it. People like us, the little people whose only imaginary power is that of the ballot box, we are pawns in games we don't understand. So what? My coffee tastes good this morning, and my house is warm on the inside as it ought to be. The cat is fed, my internet connection is up, and my wife loves me.

Dude, the Musselman is not the issue here.

UM because maybe we believe in the principles of Government By the People?
The fact that in reality it doesn't exist is not a reason to willingly accept less.
It's less about outcome than about principle. Freedom goes hand in hand with the idea that people have a right to self governance. The extent that we actually live that is a measure of how well we do at the very great objective of all of those wonderful age of reason concepts that the founders valued so well.

Quote from: BikerDude on December 20, 2012, 02:21:15 PM

Quote from: RighteousDude on December 20, 2012, 10:27:48 AM
Dude... the fucking United States has not embraced democracy!

That said, I couldn't care less who chooses or has imposed upon them which form of government. I wouldn't mind at all if the US was ruled by a benevolent dictator, or a progressive socialist government. What the fuck do I care what happens in government if it's not in my face? As long as I can live like I want to live, I don't have a fuck to give about what the government is called.

Democracy is not a magic bullet that somehow makes governments decent and respectable. Capitalism is not an economic model that guarantees that everyone gets a fair shake. It's all fucking dogma, man. If we can't see past the dogma of our culture (any person on Earth, in any culture) then we're just followers of the great woolly butt, pawns in games we don't even understand. And ya know what? Fuck it. People like us, the little people whose only imaginary power is that of the ballot box, we are pawns in games we don't understand. So what? My coffee tastes good this morning, and my house is warm on the inside as it ought to be. The cat is fed, my internet connection is up, and my wife loves me.

Dude, the Musselman is not the issue here.

UM because maybe we believe in the principles of Government By the People?
The fact that in reality it doesn't exist is not a reason to willingly accept less.
It's less about outcome than about principle. Freedom goes hand in hand with the idea that people have a right to self governance. The extent that we actually live that is a measure of how well we do at the very great objective of all of those wonderful age of reason concepts that the founders valued so well.

The technology is there for self-governance (you could just vote directly for/against every bill by internet) but nobody in a position of power is going to hand it back to the people. I bought the domain wikivote.co.uk to set up a direct voting web-site so that the lovely British people can vote alongside their elected representives and we can play spot the difference. I've been to lazy to actually build the site though - maybe I'm a true dudeist after all?