The Dudeism Forum

There is a guy who primarily lives in Utah, by the name of Daniel Suelo, who has been living without money for over ten years now. While it moneyless living may seem odd, I think he fits perfectly as a great in history because of his philosophies and reasoning behind doing it.

Check out his web page and blog and you'll see what I mean.

Quote from: RevJason83 on April 23, 2012, 01:33:08 AM
There is a guy who primarily lives in Utah, by the name of Daniel Suelo, who has been living without money for over ten years now. While it moneyless living may seem odd, I think he fits perfectly as a great in history because of his philosophies and reasoning behind doing it.

Check out his web page and blog and you'll see what I mean.

Interesting website, a dude like dude as far as I can tell. But I had to laugh at the last thing he says on his home page.......

"Please understand I can't always answer all emails."

That's probably because he can't always get to a free internet connection. Which brings me to my point; his webpage is hosted on Google ... https://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/ ...so I ask your opinion; is he REALLY living without money, or is it just that someone else is paying for what he has and uses? Because clearly Google is paying for his website since he is hosting it on their servers for free, and someone is paying for those web servers, the power to keep them running and the staff of IT dudes who admin the system at Google. Is he really "cash and debt free" or merely living off other people and a form of welfare?

I love his email address....

freemeansnomoney@gmail.com    Or is it "free because I HAVE no money?"  

IMHO of course.

I like your thinking DB.

Not so much living on no money, more living on your money, not mine.

Money shouldn't be an issue, which is the sad thing.  It's an illusion.  Money itself is worthless, it's only representative of worth.

I don't get the idea of obsessing over money.  I don't see the need to have more than my fair share for the work I do and the things I contribute, and I don't see the big whoop about not having any at all.

Because money's an illusion, not having money is hardly a great achievement.  All you need in it's stead are the actual resources the money is meant to represent, which is still something of value.  Without money, but with resources, you can survive.  Without resources you cannot survive.  Simple.

This guy has no money, but he must have resources.  I mean, if I had my own home, build next to a natural running water supply, with land enough to grow crops to eat, next to a wooded area and a supply of tools and essentials to get me started, I could live without money.

Conversely, you can do it in an urban environment if you can find someone to barter food for services, or somesuch.

Personally, I'll stick to my monetary system.  It may be an illusion, but it's much easier than asking to get paid in food for my services and having to work at the utility companies to get my power and water

Quote from: DigitalBuddha on April 23, 2012, 03:38:22 AM

..so I ask your opinion; is he REALLY living without money, or is it just that someone else is paying for what he has and uses? Because clearly Google is paying for his website since he is hosting it on their servers for free, and someone is paying for those web servers, the power to keep them running and the staff of IT dudes who admin the system at Google. Is he really "cash and debt free" or merely living off other people and a form of welfare?

I think that while he does utilize things that require money in the background, the overall effect of his "example", for lack of a better term, isn't lost. IMHO he's trying to show us that we can live more simply without all the complicated, wasteful, unbalanced, and sometimes straight messed up things we deal with on a daily basis. I have no clue whether his goal is necessarily to create a revolution or just to be an example of how we can perhaps improve ourselves and society to an extent, saying basically that we should give more freely instead of relying solely on money.  

As far as being free of money, while we live in a world where money is the dominating force, I doubt anyone will ever fully escape it's influence. I'm not even sure if it'll ever go out of use either.

Quote from: RevJason83 on April 23, 2012, 07:33:02 PM
IMHO he's trying to show us that we can live more simply without all the complicated, wasteful, unbalanced, and sometimes straight messed up things we deal with on a daily basis...saying basically that we should give more freely instead of relying solely on money. 

As far as being free of money, while we live in a world where money is the dominating force, I doubt anyone will ever fully escape it's influence. I'm not even sure if it'll ever go out of use either.

I agree his existence relies on other people earning money, even if he does not.

Quotehis existence relies on other people earning money

As do all wandering Buddhist monks in Asia. This is not a valid argument. He lives in a money free zone of his own making. Whether other people wish to give him "free" stuff is up to them.

Those charity givers had to make the money to buy the rice to feed the monks etc....the monks live in a money free world of their own making too.

Quote from: RevJason83 on April 23, 2012, 01:33:08 AM
...who has been living without money for over ten years now...

Quote from: Caesar dude on April 24, 2012, 05:25:52 PM
As do all wandering Buddhist monks in Asia. This is not a valid argument. He lives in a money free zone of his own making. Whether other people wish to give him "free" stuff is up to them.

But the monks are not claiming to live without money they readily admit to living on charity (other peoples money).

Quote from: meekon5 on April 24, 2012, 04:06:27 AM
...his existence relies on other people earning money, even if he does not.

And finally

Quote
I Know It Is Possible To Live With Zero Money, Abundantly

From his own web site.

---

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's doing a bad thing, I'm just saying he isn't living without money.

Like the Buddhist Monks he is enhancing other peoples Karma by allowing them to give him things (eg web space, Internet connection). Like the Buddhist Monks someone else is undertaking the transaction for him. He just doesn't earn the money or hoard it like the rest of us do.

I accept the cow (bull) is killed for me to have the steak I cooked for dinner tonight

Hmmmmm just had a peek at his website. It stinks.



I'll look next time before I leap.

I also did not say he was doing a bad thing, I just don't see the big whoop.

Money is not bad, it's people's desire for it and misuse of it that's bad.

Socialism and charity can go a long way to balancing out the negative issues of money.  CAN being the operative word, of course.  Enlightenment against greed would be the other best weapon, but, ho-hum

But, as I said above, money is an illusion meant to represent resource.  Even without money, you still need resources, and you can't gain equality without money still, as not everyone has the same resources available, so eliminating money solves nothing, IMHO of course.

I say make peace with money and treat it properly, don't get bend out of shape that it's either the be-all-and-end-all or that it's the root of all evil.  It's most certainly neither of those things, but a fucking long shot!

Yeah, what Ed said.

The money is not the issue here dude, it's how you got it, and what you do with it that matters.

What has every one in a tizzy is how some people have gotten a ton of money through less than enlightened means(predatory lending, scams, market manipulation and defrauding investors), then some use that money to coerce the powers that be to infringe on liberty or fair play. No body is angry at Harrison Ford for being rich, but the CEOs of some of the banks and corps have not made the world better while getting obscene profits for causing mass suffering.

Money is important, using it wisely or skilfully is even more important.

Quote from: revgms on April 26, 2012, 09:32:28 AM
No body is angry at Harrison Ford for being rich, but the CEOs of some of the banks and corps have not made the world better while getting obscene profits for causing mass suffering.

Money is important, using it wisely or skilfully is even more important.

Damn straight, GMS!

Without money in the picture it's the matter of a man who's worked hard all his life mining for tin and amasses a good load of resources to trade, compared with a man who sits on his arse whilst slaves mine for him.  It's a woman who's spent every waking hour picking and weaving cotton into cloth compared with a gang of marauders who sweep around the place taking from others.

Money = resources, and as I said in my first post, you can't live without resources.  Even berries growing in the woods are resources and have a value.  If you can use it, it's got a value, and if you need it, it's got a massive value!

Of course, the matter of value is a whole other topic, such as the value of life (meat production, pet ownership, slave trading, war-for-profit, etc).  Still, I'm no economist...

The thing about taking money out of the equation is... none of us would be having this conversation, as it's the monetary system that makes computing, the internet and movie production possible.  Take away money, you have no Dudeist forums

So, whilst money might not make the world go round, it makes civilisation tick!

My issue with money is that I used to have a lot of it and although I knew I earned it but was priviliged to have it I worked damned hard for it. 14 to 18 hour days 6 days a week for 8 years.

Now I SPENT that money and travelled extensively, First or business class all over the world. I ate in the best restaurants and stayed in the finest of places. I was spoiled rotten during those years and it was very clear that the more money I had the more things were given to me for free....Flight and hotel upgrades, free meals, discount vouchers etc. I even used to get free suits and shirts after I'd had a couple hand made.

The money certainly ensured a lifestyle full of fine dining and lots of "friends" of the same calibre but all the normal problems were there...and it's true it doesn't buy happiness.

I came back to the UK with my 3 year old son because that was what was important at the time. I became a single father living off state benefits but I was truly happy for the first time in my life...no deadlines other than play school,  no worries about being in one place when I should have been three thousand miles away in the other direction...no bosses looking over my shoulder waffling about budgets and market forces.

I was living on 95 pounds every two weeks with which I had to feed and clothe my son and I. Pay rent, put petrol in my 150 pound car and exist. It was a struggle but everyday was an adventure and just being with my little boy 24/7 was reward enough for any hardship.

Things change. I am now back on that corporate ladder...rising slowly through a big company...hey I started at the bottom and am now a couple of rungs higher...maybe one day I will be back where the money is but I don't yearn for it.

Money...pah! If it were a fair exchange then the guys who do the graft would get more than the guys who sit on their arses....but then again if it wasn't for the guys who sit on their arses having lunch with other guys who sit on their arses and decide where the grafters graft....there would be no business. I guess. 

I hate to admit it, but I depend on others myself...does that make me undude?

I see the point of humor here, but I also see everyones own experience.

I agree that he is leeching, without apparant knowledge of it. But if we grow a garden of flowers, do we expect them to fight for survival or do we care for each plant individually?

life is mysterious and a blessing. If you believe in any purpose or mathmatical physics based meaning to existence, than everything has a right to exist the way it can grow, we don't go out and study the best way to kill of leeches do we? In some regard they serve purpose. 

I hate to say this on my favorite forum, but each and every one of you is a parasite.
You might be associating it with money that is earned by your individual efforts, but you wouldn't be here without the back bone of someone elses labor, or the beauty of life on earth, or the root of energy itself.

Contribute action or thought, or a combination,  it's when you destroy with intent that is rather...undude

Quote from: meekon5 on April 23, 2012, 12:56:27 PM
I like your thinking DB.

Not so much living on no money, more living on your money, not mine.

Yeah, that was pretty much my impression. We all use a few things online that free here and there, like this website, but an entire life style doing so bothers me. Sounds a lot like taking, but not giving back.