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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: BikerDude on September 28, 2016, 07:48:10 AM

Title: Democracy in action
Post by: BikerDude on September 28, 2016, 07:48:10 AM
Doesnt it just make a person feel optimistic?
They used to talk about these folks as "the silent majority"
I miss the silent part personally.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E2IGezreYbg
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: Brother D on September 29, 2016, 04:47:24 AM
It makes me wonder what the hell are they thinking?!. These "sheople" follow blindly without question and can't really answer anything without some bullshit excuse.
Their only concern, is how things affect them now, not in the future. Its the same with the conservatives over here.

We're all dooooomed, I tell ya!
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: BikerDude on September 29, 2016, 09:10:57 AM
It makes me wonder what the hell are they thinking?!. These "sheople" follow blindly without question and can't really answer anything without some bullshit excuse.
Their only concern, is how things affect them now, not in the future. Its the same with the conservatives over here.

We're all dooooomed, I tell ya!

I wish they actually would concern themselves with what effects them now.
They may think they are but Trump is the latest rich guy who comes from a rich upbringing who tells the average person that the answer to their economic problems is to make him richer. And people buy it.
And then to believe that he gives fuck one about things like immigration.
He has employed illegal immigrant multiple times in his career.
He talks about keeping companies in the US while almost 100% of his new business development has been overseas.
It's so transparently a charade that it makes me sick to watch.
The working class needs to learn the lessons of their great grand parents.
Corporations and the wealthy want you to be as poor as they can make you without causing revolution.
It's a dynamic that was their yesterday is here today and will be here tomorrow.
The traditional comfort that the average person enjoys was hard won.
Today with a media controlled by a few corporations the message has enlisted the working class. And until people wake up its going to get worse and worse until it results in turmoil. And the corporatocracy is preparing for that with increasing surveillance and a militarized police force. Eventually the jigg is going to be up. I'm not a tin foil hat guy but things like the efforts by a company like Monsanto to control the entire food supply are shocking. And the positively jaw dropping move that they have made to buy the private army Blackwater has no comfortable explaining. Why in God's name would a company making GMO seeds and agricultural products own the world's largest private army?
Well that was a tirade.
Calmer than you are.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on September 29, 2016, 11:01:53 AM
Trump is the latest rich guy who comes from a rich upbringing who tells the average person that the answer to their economic problems is to make him richer. And people buy it.

Gotta love that "trickle down economics"

Example: Donald Trump
Claims to be worth billions, yet pays zero (yes zero) federal taxes (he's been claiming real-estate losses since 2008)
Creates jobs... in China
Bribes politician to get $850,000,000 in "tax incentives"
Does not pay small businesses for the work they do for him
Declares bankruptcy several times, leaving investors with the debt
Pays court-ordered fines using money from his "charity" (donated by other people, tax-free)

So yeah, there is your trickle down economics in action... the rich abuse whatever you give them... and never trickle it down
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: Brother D on September 29, 2016, 01:50:48 PM
It's like Lenin said, "You look for the one who benefits".

Perhaps it is time for us losers, deadbeats and people the square community doesn't give a shit about to take the rug from underneath them, after all, we have Fuck It tattooed on our foreheads.

There never was any damn money and she kidnapped herself, man!
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: BikerDude on September 29, 2016, 02:30:59 PM
Trump is the latest rich guy who comes from a rich upbringing who tells the average person that the answer to their economic problems is to make him richer. And people buy it.

Gotta love that "trickle down economics"

Example: Donald Trump
Claims to be worth billions, yet pays zero (yes zero) federal taxes (he's been claiming real-estate losses since 2008)
Creates jobs... in China
Bribes politician to get $850,000,000 in "tax incentives"
Does not pay small businesses for the work they do for him
Declares bankruptcy several times, leaving investors with the debt
Pays court-ordered fines using money from his "charity" (donated by other people, tax-free)

So yeah, there is your trickle down economics in action... the rich abuse whatever you give them... and never trickle it down

And even if you try to evaluate the idea rationally it makes zero sense.
If you won a billion dollars today would you work harder tomorrow?
Fuck no!
You work hard when you need money.
It's the same when you are wealthy.
Tax the crap out of the rich and let them pay less for every new job they create.
You'll get new jobs in a hurry.

It's human nature.
The last time thing were this good for the ultra wealthy was right before the great depression. The greatest period of expansion had a top tax rate of what like 90%?
Development projects as tax shelters were very popular.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: RandoRock on September 30, 2016, 05:43:54 AM
I never believed I was a tin foil hat guy until I started actually paying attention to what was going on. Now I consistently feel like I should be in my shack with newspaper on the windows and tin foil on my head, blathering on about the radio signals in my teeth.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on September 30, 2016, 03:08:37 PM
If the DNC didn't want a Trump presidency, they shouldn't have committed electoral fraud during the Nevada primaries (and elsewhere) to coronate a woman who has a lifetime of scandal behind her and who recently had an adverse finding from the United States Office of the Inspector fucking General, the nation's chief auditor, regarding her use of a private email server to hide all communications from oversight while serving as Secretary of State.

Trump is preferable to Clinton. He was complicit in starting fewer unnecessary wars, so he has killed fewer millions of brown people. Trump is the DNC's fault. I prefer a wildcard president over a guaranteed corrupt warmonger president. Trump, at least, champions isolationism.

Prominent journalists covering the issue: 
Dan Rolle: https://twitter.com/danrolle 
H.A. Goodman: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDB5XReUyyqt-FTNdkzFN-A 
David Seaman: https://www.youtube.com/user/davidseamanonline 

Important documents or videos: 
OIG Report: https://oig.state.gov/system/files/esp-16-03.pdf 
Judicial Watch panel discussion of scandal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsgapaYCs40 
House Committe Grills FBI Directory Comey re. email investigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIL38se8nzM 

Where I find this stuff: 
Top Links, Hillary for Prison subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/HillaryForPrison/top/?sort=top&t=all 
Top Links, DNCLeaks subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks/top/?sort=top&t=all 

Please, while Trump is very much deserving of criticism, there is a greater evil to be panicking about here. Clinton was instrumental in approving the war in Iraq and in the destabilization of the Middle East, and in implementing "tough on crime" drug demonizing policies during the 90's. She has more blood on her hands than we will ever know.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: BikerDude on September 30, 2016, 07:05:32 PM
Who ever said that Clinton was any less a piece of shit?
Trump does give me pause because he seems to consistently give indication that he is a pretty dim bulb. The latest that I saw was when he said that ISIS is on a "campaign of Genesis". My 12 year old son laughed at that.

It's clear that there is no good scenario but do we need to be a laughing stock?
I mean cmon he's an absolute clown.
The rest of the world already thinks Americans are stupid. Do we need to prove them right by electing a realty TV personality?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Uu35f87zU

He doesn't seem to have any platform whatsoever other than criticising Hillary.
The rest seems to be vague bravado.

Personally as much as I hate Hillary and Bill and all the phony liberals of their ilk I could not give a shit about her emails. It's been played to death and it smacks of desperation.
I just refuse to vote for another rich prick who's platform is that we should make him and his friends more wealthy. When will we finally learn our lesson?

I at least think Hillary is smart and up to the task.
I anticipate that Trump will repeatedly shove his entire foot in his mouth over and over on the world stage. His entire career has been marked by that.
Which works wonderfully if you are a tabloid celebrity. But not as President

And you are actually talking about blood on our hands to defend Trump?
He says that he plans to kill the terrorists and their families yadda yadda.
Isolationism? He actually asked in his security briefing why we don't use the nukes.

If the DNC didn't want a Trump presidency, they shouldn't have committed electoral fraud during the Nevada primaries (and elsewhere) to coronate a woman who has a lifetime of scandal behind her and who recently had an adverse finding from the United States Office of the Inspector fucking General, the nation's chief auditor, regarding her use of a private email server to hide all communications from oversight while serving as Secretary of State.

Trump is preferable to Clinton. He was complicit in starting fewer unnecessary wars, so he has killed fewer millions of brown people. Trump is the DNC's fault. I prefer a wildcard president over a guaranteed corrupt warmonger president. Trump, at least, champions isolationism.

Prominent journalists covering the issue: 
Dan Rolle: https://twitter.com/danrolle 
H.A. Goodman: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDB5XReUyyqt-FTNdkzFN-A 
David Seaman: https://www.youtube.com/user/davidseamanonline 

Important documents or videos: 
OIG Report: https://oig.state.gov/system/files/esp-16-03.pdf 
Judicial Watch panel discussion of scandal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsgapaYCs40 
House Committe Grills FBI Directory Comey re. email investigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIL38se8nzM 

Where I find this stuff: 
Top Links, Hillary for Prison subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/HillaryForPrison/top/?sort=top&t=all 
Top Links, DNCLeaks subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks/top/?sort=top&t=all 

Please, while Trump is very much deserving of criticism, there is a greater evil to be panicking about here. Clinton was instrumental in approving the war in Iraq and in the destabilization of the Middle East, and in implementing "tough on crime" drug demonizing policies during the 90's. She has more blood on her hands than we will ever know.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on September 30, 2016, 07:53:04 PM
The emails are very important. Clinton evaded all oversight for the entirety of her tenure as Secretary of State. This matter has not been played to death. We in the resistance will continue to push the issue until she is behind bars, no matter how many years it takes.

It should not be surprising that a criminal investigation that has been hobbled intentionally by both the FBI and the Department of Justice under the corrupt watch of the Democrats is taking a long time to play out. The analysis by Dan Rolle, the former Democratic congressional candidate who personally saw and documented electoral fraud from the inside in Nevada, and of the former prosecuting attorneys who now serve as representatives on the House Oversight Committee and the House Science Committe (which has jurisdiction over US cybersecurity), is sound. The corrupt elites get away with what they do precisely because they can slow-walk these things for years until the public loses interest. We must not lose interest this time.

We must not vote for those who commit electoral fraud or who evade oversight. Clinton is disqualified from holding public office, and is ineligible for your vote. If you do not like either candidate, I encourage you to vote for Stein or Johnson.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: RandoRock on October 01, 2016, 12:04:49 AM
This election is perfectly summed up by every joke ever made about the two party system. We all knew that it would eventually we would reach a point where either choice could potentially bring the end. We are either going to continue further down the politically correct, socialist, big government rabbit hole that we are headed down now or we are going to become the reality TV gameshow that the rest of the world already thinks we are.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 01, 2016, 12:12:47 AM
At any rate, this portion of the recent Judicial Watch panel sums up and, indeed, expands upon my views regarding Director Comey's "investigation," or, more accurately, cover-up operation, of the Clinton email scandal perfectly. It is a very entertaining rant by a prominent legal professional. I know you all probably think of lawyers as being uniformly corrupt, but there are many principled lawyers who actually care about justice, and who work their whole lives in pursuit of this goal. Principled lawyers are the people who are trained to actually bring about reform. We should listen to them and support them, not dismiss them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsgapaYCs40
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: RandoRock on October 01, 2016, 12:23:19 AM
I watched most of the committee hearings live, including the one with Comey and honestly I don't know if I would have believed most of the things from the hearing if I hadn't heard them for myself. He pretty much did nothing the whole time but say she broke multiple laws only to turn around and say he wasn't going to charge her. My favorite part is when he flat out says she committed felony perjury but they still weren't going to charge her...I went out and bought a new roll of tinfoil right after.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 01, 2016, 12:51:03 AM
Bill and Hillary broke, like, all the laws, and then bought off and/or blackmailed Congress, the President of the United States and the Director of the FBI to call off the bloodhounds. That's an impressive amount of evil, unprecedented for this nation in scope and audacity.

Oh, don't think that she bought off Congress? Congress can impeach her right now regarding her service as secretary of state. Former public officers can be impeached as well as sitting public officers. They don't have to wait for the executive branch to produce an indictment. The Republicans control both houses. On any particular day, Congress can hold a "kangaroo court" impeachment hearing, let her talk for half an hour, vote to impeach, and then bar her from public office. The fact that they are not doing this proves that the Republicans are complicit in this cover-up as well. Chairs Chaffetz and Smith are making a great show of upholding justice, and are even doing useful work. But it's all unnecessary. The Republican Party was bought off and has decided not to impeach, and they are demanding prosecution in order to shift blame for their miscarriage of justice to the Democrats.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 01, 2016, 01:56:22 AM
Eh. That's my rant on this topic. Maybe I am too harsh on the Republicans; a show trial and an impeachment would have provided less information to the public. Perhaps the historical record is more important than immediate justice here. I mean, we jailed a guy for taking a selfie on a submarine, and here is a public official who broke that same law, but at least 30,000 times over the course of 3 years, committed the additional felonies of perjury, obstruction of justice, and destruction of federal records while covering up the matter, and she gets to make a credible run for the presidency. So sorry if it makes me a bit angry when someone tells me that the Clinton email controversy is not important.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 01, 2016, 02:13:54 AM
If one espionage act conviction for a selfie merits a one-year prison sentence, then Hillary Clinton's sentence should be measured in geologic time scales. Her sentence, if justice were fair, should be some 6 times the length of recorded history.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: RandoRock on October 01, 2016, 06:06:13 AM
Yeah the whole system is rigged. It's been proven numerous times but until the masses decide enough is enough then it's going to continue unchecked. Unfortunately the masses can't be bothered with anything other than the Kardashians or Branjolina...
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: Dudeist Monk on October 01, 2016, 06:17:40 AM
As a non-US person, obviously, my opinion really holds no water in this discussion. I know very little of the policies of either of the candidates.

However, for what it's worth, the idea of Trump becoming President scares the crap out of me. Just from reading his Twitter posts, watching videos of him and reading about some of the things he has said, I honestly believe his lack of diplomacy could lead the world into a terrible, terrible war.

Like I said, my opinion means nothing and carries no weight. It's just the impression I get from available information that I've seen.

Sorry to butt in to a conversation that doesn't involve me.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 01, 2016, 08:30:08 AM
It's America. The American election involves everybody. So international observers are quite relevant. Please look at some of the information that I have posted and that the reddits that I have linked to have posted.

The Clinton Foundation is a billion-dollar money laundering scheme. The largest donor to the Clinton Foundation is Saudi Arabia. She routinely receives multi-million dollar bribes from the world's most evil dictatorships. Our recent wars were enabled by the Clinton political apparatus at the behest of (ed: the arms manufacturers) and the Clintons' foreign masters. The war in Iraq would not have happened without the support of the Democrats in Congress, with whom HRC has immense influence. It concerns everybody if the highest office and the war machine of our "democracy" continue to be sold to the highest bidders, which are the multinational corporations and the OPEC nations. If Clinton wins, then the corporations and OPEC have made the American justice system and the electoral process toothless to hold the wealthy and powerful in this country accountable for their actions.

With Trump, who knows what we will get? His words are, indeed, concerning. But they are just words, and an ordinarily-corrupt career in business. With Clinton, we have actions while in public service to judge her by. Her lifetime of scandal should be more concerning to us all than the bluster of a wealthy and ineffectual reality TV star. Trump can't pull off what he wants to do. Clinton can. And we know what she wants to do. Even now, in between empty promises of social justice, she makes credible promises of war.

(Ed: As for why multinational corporations would want war? War destabilizes developing countries. It maintains a ready supply of lax regulatory environments and cheap labor for the multinational corporations to exploit. As for the OPEC countries, the price of oil is plummeting due to excess supply. Destabilizing certain oil-producing countries such as Iraq reduces the oil supply, which enables the remaining countries such as Saudi Arabia to charge higher prices. And, of course, the American arms manufacturers would be much less wealthy if they were not enabled to equip all sides through exports to proxies such as Saudi Arabia. It's a relatively low-risk endeavor for the American military-industrial complex. The brown peasants kill each other with our weapons, and then our patriotic soldiers who signed up to protect our country's interests are bled for profit instead by being sent in either to finish off the survivors, to produce power vacuums, or to otherwise maintain a violent and profitable equilibrium.)
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 01, 2016, 11:45:03 AM
I have to ignore all this crap. I can't do anything about it. Democracy and the rule of law are falling apart in this country, and I have to ignore it all and work. And my ability to meet my responsibilities is subject to the whims of either HR professionals who I can give no reason to trust me, or customers for whom I do not really have any compelling products or services to offer. I have forgotten my college training. My family despises me, and I have no social life. Sorry this has left me unstable.

Catch you all later. I've got work to do.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: jgiffin on October 01, 2016, 01:05:48 PM
I just refuse to vote for another rich prick who's platform is that we should make him and his friends more wealthy. When will we finally learn our lesson?

Except for the masculine pronouns, that sentence applies to both major candidates rather equally.

Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: Brother D on October 01, 2016, 04:40:06 PM
Fuck man, this thread is both great AND exhausting!

I feel sorry for the dudes that have to live with the consequences of the next presidency, let alone the past ones!

UK politics isn't much better either. I recently read about the Privvy Council (intermediary beurocrats between the monarchy and parliament, that do have certain information, man) and found another rabbit hole to fall down.

Elections should be a matter of who is the best candidate for the job, not who is the best bullshitter or who will fuck up the least!
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: Reverend Al on October 02, 2016, 05:33:25 PM
...Elections should be a matter of who is the best candidate for the job, not who is the best bullshitter or who will fuck up the least!

Mark it eight.  Every election I've voted for "the lesser of two evils" rather than "the best candidate for the job" simply because those were the choices.  But in this election there is no "lesser"; they're equally bad, just in different ways.  Clinton is a politically polished iceberg who treats people like shit when there are no cameras around, and Trump is a 70-year-old frat boy who cares only about money.  I'll be surprised if the next four years aren't a big pain-in-the-ass regardless of which of them gets elected.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 02, 2016, 05:37:53 PM
...the idea of Trump becoming President scares the crap out of me. Just from reading his Twitter posts, watching videos of him and reading about some of the things he has said, I honestly believe his lack of diplomacy could lead the world into a terrible, terrible war.

This is the biggest thing I'm worried about with Trump... he will do something stupid like, kick all the Hispanics and Muslims out of the country, or throw them in concentration camps... or he will tweet something at 3am about Kim Jong-un or Muslims and start WW3... the guy is a loose cannon... he says, "We can't take nukes off the table" (talking about the possibility of nuking Europe)

What sort of man-child doesn't understand you can't drop a nuke on Europe?... ... ...
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 02, 2016, 05:42:31 PM
...Elections should be a matter of who is the best candidate for the job, not who is the best bullshitter or who will fuck up the least!

Mark it eight.  Every election I've voted for "the lesser of two evils" rather than "the best candidate for the job" simply because those were the choices.  But in this election there is no "lesser"; they're equally bad, just in different ways.  Clinton is a politically polished iceberg who treats people like shit when there are no cameras around, and Trump is a 70-year-old frat boy who cares only about money.  I'll be surprised if the next four years aren't a big pain-in-the-ass regardless of which of them gets elected.

I agree they are both horrible... I certainly don't endorse Hillary

I wanted to like Gary Johnson, but he doesn't have an answer for anything (similar to Trump)... They asked him, "Name a foreign leader that you admire"... and he couldn't... so the interviewer rephrased the question to, "Name any foreign leader"... and he still couldn't... ... ...
http://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495896880/watch-unable-to-name-a-foreign-leader-gary-johnson-has-another-aleppo-moment (http://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495896880/watch-unable-to-name-a-foreign-leader-gary-johnson-has-another-aleppo-moment)

I suppose I like Jill Stein, but I'm afraid if I dig deep, she'll be just as bad as the rest of them
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 03, 2016, 02:35:36 AM
Here, I know we're not pro-Hillary here, but in case anyone thinks Trump is the greater threat, I'll make this simple. Hillary wants to piss off the Russians, considering that she blames Russian hackers for everything and that she wants to implement a no-fly zone in Syria. Trump praises Putin, which indicates that he wants to be friendly to the Russians. Pissing off the Russians is always a bad idea. The worst thing that we can do for our national security is increase tensions with them.

Great Britain and Russia also have a nuclear policy that permits shooting first. Trump's response that we wouldn't rule it out is just standard deterrence. Remember that Russia has territory in Europe, so his comment was referring indirectly to Moscow.

I say, let's stop poking the bear. Can we stop poking the bear now? What Trump proposes regarding the bear is pointing a gun at it while talking in a soothing manner and slowly backing away. That sounds entirely reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 03, 2016, 12:10:13 PM
The thing with Russians and hacking is...

Russians are not stupid... they understand cryptography, they understand TOR, masking your IP address, etc...

So... if the IP address traced back to Russia (specifically Moscow, every time)... ... what that tells me is... it was most definitely NOT Russia doing the hacking...

That's just how hacking works... even noobs know you don't hack from your own IP address... you don't hack from your house... you use public wifi, and make your IP address trace back to a foreign country... that's hacking 101... EVERY hacker knows this... EVERY single one of them, even godless communists know this (say what you will about the communists, at least it's an ethos)


So, what have we learned?  Russia is not behind the hacks... someone is framing the Russians, which implies Americans are doing the hacking... Most countries wouldn't frame Moscow, they'd make sure their IP traced to an American city... the hackers are most likely working for the US gov
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 03, 2016, 01:31:53 PM
I am entirely unsuited to skullduggery and I have only a basic understanding of programming and hacking. Yet even I know to mask my IP address in such circumstances. Good point.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 04, 2016, 11:10:44 AM
Yeah the whole system is rigged. It's been proven numerous times but until the masses decide enough is enough then it's going to continue unchecked. Unfortunately the masses can't be bothered with anything other than the Kardashians or Branjolina...

Speaking of Kardashians... One of them just got robbed for $10,000,000 in Paris
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kim-kardashians-paris-robbery-assailants-still-at-large-w443244 (http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kim-kardashians-paris-robbery-assailants-still-at-large-w443244)

Makes me feel all Schadenfreude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude) inside  ;)
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: BikerDude on October 04, 2016, 08:16:11 PM
Personally I see numerous flawed candidates who I may disagree with and one candidate that has absolutely no business even being considered a candidate.
I mean only slightly less ridiculous than a Ted Nugent's / Honey Booboo ticket.
Trump is a gigantic trumpeting ass.

I'd have to say that Sam Harris sums it up for me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=96ZOpzL1Q_A

Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 06, 2016, 01:34:22 AM
I really can't say Hillary is any better than Trump...

She goes against everything democracy stands for... she is 100% pay to play (she literally had a folder named "Pay to Play" on her email server)

Foreign nations are banned from donating to political parties, but Hillary skirts the law by setting up a "charity" for them to donate to instead...

She should be in prison for the email scandal... Comey said she committed several felonies, right before saying he wasn't going to prosecute... If it were anyone else, they'd be in prison

Hillary is an Oligarch who will sell out to the highest bidder (which isn't you or me)... you don't want that
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: Reverend Al on October 06, 2016, 05:49:48 PM
...Hillary is an Oligarch who will sell out to the highest bidder (which isn't you or me)... you don't want that

But who's to say Trump would be different?  If nothing else, Tim Kaine raised an interesting point during the Vice-Presidential debate:  When dealing with foreign countries, would Donald Trump's decisions be based on what's best for America, or on what's best for his personal interests?  My money's on the latter.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 14, 2016, 03:11:47 AM
At any rate, if you won't listen to me regarding the election, perhaps you'll listen to respected Australian journalist John Pilger. Or, you know, legendary journalist Christopher Hitchens.

On the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton currently proposes a no-fly zone over Syria and threatens Russia with military action over the DNC leaks. These are part of her campaign platform.

The Democrat Party has left a wide swath of blood across three continents over the decades, broken only by the wide swaths of blood across three continents left by their establishment allies, the Republicans, when they happened to be running things. A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for war with Russia, potentially nuclear war. Please don't vote for nuclear war. Neither Trump, Stein, or Johnson are part of the establishment, and they all want peace.

I live near a nuclear power plant. Many of us live in major cities. If Clinton wins, we evacuate or we die.

Pilger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUW5-LlLQ1Q
Hitchens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrzyVt1lbpo
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 14, 2016, 04:27:06 AM
Also, in case anyone doubted WikiLeaks, CBS thinks that the WikiLeaks emails are legitimate. Other, more compromised news agencies such as CNN have not challenged the validity of any specific WikiLeaks emails. WikiLeaks has a 10-year perfect track record of avoiding publishing forgeries. The documents that they publish are admissible as evidence in court, and are routinely used for this purpose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY7U-XKTsKI

As the CBS commentator points out above, appointing a special prosecutor is the standard operating procedure in cases involving activities in the highest levels of government, as with cabinet-level officials. The fact that a special prosecutor has not been appointed to investigate Clinton's illegal use of a private email server while secretary of state is evidence of corruption in the Obama administration, not of banana-republic show trials intended by a Trump administration.

wikileaks.org
reddit.com/r/dncleaks (compiled list of highlights with direct links to Wikileaks documents)
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 14, 2016, 12:51:49 PM
The Democrat Party has left a wide swath of blood across three continents over the decades, broken only by the wide swaths of blood across three continents left by their establishment allies, the Republicans, when they happened to be running things. A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for war with Russia, potentially nuclear war. Please don't vote for nuclear war. Neither Trump, Stein, or Johnson are part of the establishment, and they all want peace.

Sure, Hillary wants to start a war with Russia... she doesn't think we have enough nukes (seriously)

Trump wants to start a war with Mexicans and Muslims... Trump also likes nukes, he asks "why can't we just use nukes" several times during a foreign policy briefing
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html)

The one I can't stand is Mike Pence... the guy is an anti-evolution science denier: (serious propaganda... not simply uninformed, but intentionally ignorant)
RWW News: Mike Pence Criticizes "Theory" Of Evolution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikax0Y0NJsY)
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 14, 2016, 01:20:49 PM
Great! I don't like Trump either. My primary concern is war with Russia. Trump has consistently expressed a conciliatory attitude towards Russia. If he gets us into additional quagmires in the Middle East outside of Syria or in Mexico, etc., these are not existential risks to the state. A war with Russia would destroy us, since they can't win using conventional weapons.

Like I say, there are plenty of very good reasons not to vote for Trump. But for every legitimate criticism of Trump, Billary are far worse. Don't like either? Vote Stein or Johnson. A surprise win by Johnson is reasonably likely, and would be fine. Stein is f**ked. Johnson will probably get some electoral votes, and 10% or better of the popular vote. Stein will probably get no electoral votes, and 5% or better of the popular vote.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: The Dude Shepherd on October 14, 2016, 03:24:04 PM
I don't like the 2-party system... it inevitably leads to a vote for the lesser of two evils (or you "throw your vote away" on a 3rd party)

Maine has a ballot initiative that is supposed to pass for "Ranked Choice Voting"... that'll get rid of the throw your vote away excuse, and lead to 3rd parties having a chance... hopefully more states follow with this idea

https://ballotpedia.org/Maine_Ranked_Choice_Voting_Initiative,_Question_5_(2016) (https://ballotpedia.org/Maine_Ranked_Choice_Voting_Initiative,_Question_5_(2016))
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 14, 2016, 03:56:22 PM
Thanks! I forgot about the Maine ranked choice voting initiative. Ranked choice voting is necessary to save our democracy from civil war in the mid-term. In the near-term, defeating Clinton is necessary to save our democracy. Electing Clinton would either result in civil war or war with Russia, whichever comes first.

Check out Sargon of Akkad for insightful and historically-informed commentary on these matters. Our situation is very similar to the situation immediately prior to the end of the Roman Republic. Income inequality is the core issue after, you know, risking self-destruction via nuclear missles due to Clinton thinking that a limited war with Russia is possible.

Johnson offers a federalist viewpoint. As I understand it, the Libertarian idea is to let states figure out their own solutions to matters such as income inequality, which would work fine. Stein offers to get people back to work through a green energy revolution, which would work fine. Trump offers to get people back to work through greater use of conventional domestic energy sources such as coal and oil. This would save the union, and we could probably fix the environmental damage later. Nuclear war or global conventional war are greater climate threats than global warming, so this is a perfectly acceptable tradeoff.

Anyway, here's Sargon's video outlining the similarities between Trump and Marcus Gracchus, the politician who attempted, and failed, to save the Roman Republic through populist reform. It was the best chance they had to avoid autocracy. We can learn from them and do better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCvyg679bsg
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 14, 2016, 04:20:11 PM
Also, if any excessive SJW's on the forum think that Trump's sexist comments were relevant, another I just watched from Sargon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqXkvBtbNsk

Trump never needed to abuse women. A plethora of interested young ladies were always available for consensual relations. The important part of the quote was that "they'll let you do it." The very sound bite that the media is up in arms about is the sound bite that most convincingly shows that Trump is concerned about consent. The same was the case when he was describing his affair, where he was putting the moves on someone, but stopped because she wouldn't consent. Also, Billy Bush asked for a hug from the lady in purple after getting off the bus, and asked one for Trump. Both men only contacted her bodily after receiving explicit consent. The video shows the exact opposite of assault.

I don't understand why people are angry about this. We do not all need to be prudes. The video is embarrassing to watch, but shows nothing that is strictly unethical.

A plethora of interested young ladies were also available for Bill Clinton. Which makes the fact that he chose to abuse women instead even more disgusting. He chose to be abusive because he is a violent sadist. Trump, for all his faults, does not appear to be a sadist. Clinton covered for his sexual violence for many years, which shows a basic lack of concern for the well-being of others.
Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: jgiffin on October 14, 2016, 05:54:58 PM
This "Trump Scandal" stuff just strikes me as what-the-fuck-ever. I'm not dismissing it. I don't disbelieve the footage. I don't endorse what he said. But all that stuff was baked into my opinion of that moron.

     Is he a fucking mook? Yes.

     Kinda creepy? Yep.

     Uncouth, hammy, indecorous, rough? Uh-huh, yeah, okay, and agreed.

I'm sorry, are we electing a fucking Scoutmaster or a goddamn politician? Breaking News: Everyone on TV with a (R) or (D) after their name is a fucking liar and no one you should knowingly allow around young children or legal tender. They rape both.

Shut-the-fuck-up. If these women were so aggrieved, they'd have brought it up before an election happened to approach. They didn't. Guess what? Many of Bubba's victims (whatever their faults) brought up their claims up sooner. Granted, they were publicly castigated by Hill-Dawg, which probably lessens the incentive to report things...but still, it wasn't 30 days before an election.

Fuck me. I can't vote for either of these jackasses. And the other guy, Johnson, isn't libertarian or knowledgeable. I gave him a pass on the Aleppo thing (guess he didn't read Othello) but come on. He can't name a world leader either? Argh. You're killing me here.



Title: Re: Democracy in action
Post by: SagebrushSage on October 14, 2016, 06:53:18 PM
I don't like Johnson either. I'll be voting for Stein. Washington probably won't vote Trump, but a Stein upset is a remote possibility. I don't think that anyone is arguing that Trump has been as abusive towards women as Bill Clinton, but I'll grant you that some sexual abuse occurred.

Equivocating Trump and Clinton is not valid here. Trump's actions have not resulted in the toppling or weakening of numerous relatively stable, if oppressive, regimes, such as those in Honduras, Libya, Syria, and Iraq, to be immediately replaced by more oppressive and less stable regimes. ISIS would not have happened without Clinton's actions as a party leader, senator, and secretary of state in recent decades, as enabled or directed by the Obama administration. The recent Wikileaks Podesta leaks reveal that Saudi Arabia is clandestinely funding ISIS in the Clinton campaign's opinion, yet Clinton approved arms sales to Saudi Arabia and accepted tens of millions of dollars in bribes from them. They are terrorizing millions in a power vacuum that we created, using weapons that we either sent to the Saudis ourselves, or paid for by purchasing their oil.

Trump was also not complicit in compromising the integrity of the press, the DOJ, and the FBI in order to escape prosecution for evading all oversight. He was busy making dumb TV shows and building occasionally-successful hotels and casinos at the time. He did defraud some people with a fake university, which was bad. Clinton started or helped to start plural US wars and foreign civil wars with questionable or nonexistent justification under international law, which is worse.

The best legitimate criticisms of Trump's actions that the press was able to come up with were perhaps a couple of sexual assault incidents, a small-time fraudulent university, and some coarse language. So, I'll be generous to the MSM and say that's equivalent to one thousand war casualties of evil. Clinton's millions of direct and incidental war casualties are still a much bigger problem. Past actions, not current statements, are the best predictor of future behavior. If both are equally corrupt or what have you, we have to decide based on their record. It is clear who is the greater evil here in terms of body count.

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