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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: BikerDude on January 21, 2012, 02:30:26 PM

Title: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 21, 2012, 02:30:26 PM
For me it is "Grey's Anatomy".
Oh my God! My wife loves it and she'll sit for hours and watch episodes on Hulu or Netflix.

Personally I find it to be an unbelievably vacant, pool of luke warn Yuppie narcissism.
Basically this generations version of a soap opera.
It makes the show Friends look positively soulful.
What complete white bread, bland self absorbed wankery!

But then she put up with me watching 4 hours of Top Gear this morning.
Even though Clarkson is an absolute twit.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 21, 2012, 04:30:36 PM
Where to start, yes all the CSI variants, House (same thing each week he's a knob and he's always right), this weeks top model (Australia, UK, USA, who cares), Big Brother (shite in every variety), anything which is just a camera following some bunch of twats around (I'm a teenage drug addict dole cheating sex addict type thing).
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 21, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
OK, I may be draconian about this, but the worse show on TV? Simple....every piece of shit on cable in damn near every country on planet earth! 99.99999% of the puke run on cable TV is absolute piles of bottled fermented sewage manufactured for zombies!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6p7drFkjCXk/Tq2FjSJ0vmI/AAAAAAAABS4/19MMmrcYGvs/s1600/zombie+TV.png)

....with exception of The Big Bang Theory, of course ;D
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: cckeiser on January 21, 2012, 05:49:29 PM
I liked Deadwood...but that was HBO...and it's over.
Breaking Bad is good...I guess that's about it for TV.
Oooh...Weeds...I like Weeds...that's coming out on dvd in Feb.
Everything else pretty much sucks....bunch of assholes. 8)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Caesar dude on January 21, 2012, 05:51:13 PM
OK, I may be draconian about this, but the worse show on TV? Simple....every piece of shit on cable in damn near every country on planet earth! 99.99999% of the puke run on cable TV is absolute piles of bottled fermented sewage manufactured for zombies!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6p7drFkjCXk/Tq2FjSJ0vmI/AAAAAAAABS4/19MMmrcYGvs/s1600/zombie+TV.png)

....with exception of The Big Bang Theory, of course ;D

Not too sure what you're saying there DB. Why don't you get off the fence and clarify your position! ;)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 21, 2012, 06:09:40 PM
I liked Deadwood...but that was HBO...and it's over.
Breaking Bad is good...I guess that's about it for TV.
Oooh...Weeds...I like Weeds...that's coming out on dvd in Feb.
Everything else pretty much sucks....bunch of assholes. 8)

I like your tack on this problem CC sod trying to list what you don't like, the easier list is what you do like.

OK, I may be draconian about this, but the worse show on TV? Simple....every piece of shit on cable in damn near every country on planet earth! 99.99999% of the puke run on cable TV is absolute piles of bottled fermented sewage manufactured for zombies!
....with exception of The Big Bang Theory, of course ;D

I have to agree with Caesar here DB if your going to be none committal why even bother posting (;D).

(and can't disagree at all).

And I do have to add this Orwell vs Huxley:

(http://www.wanderer4.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Orwell-Vs-Huxley1.jpg)

or in picture form for the hard of thinking (no insult meant specifically there but if the hat fits ;D)

(http://visualnews.columnfivemedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/orwell-huxley-world.png)

It's the classic early experiments where they wired rats up with electrodes to the pleasure centers of their brains. then attached the wires to a switch in the rats cage. Given the choice of two levers, one for a food dispenser, one to stimulate the pleasure center, the rats of course all starved to death, but all died with a smile on their faces.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 21, 2012, 06:30:30 PM
I liked Deadwood...but that was HBO...and it's over.
Breaking Bad is good...I guess that's about it for TV.
Oooh...Weeds...I like Weeds...that's coming out on dvd in Feb.
Everything else pretty much sucks....bunch of assholes. 8)

I like your tack on this problem CC sod trying to list what you don't like, the easier list is what you do like.

OK, I may be draconian about this, but the worse show on TV? Simple....every piece of shit on cable in damn near every country on planet earth! 99.99999% of the puke run on cable TV is absolute piles of bottled fermented sewage manufactured for zombies!
....with exception of The Big Bang Theory, of course ;D

I have to agree with Caesar here DB if your going to be none committal why even bother posting (;D).

And this is my point, dudes; I did commit, witness "....with exception of The Big Bang Theory, of course"

 8) OK then, I'll give you notes.......

Television has done much for psychiatry by spreading information about it, as well as contributing to the need for it.

   - Alfred Hitchcock

Worse show? All reality TV (http://dudeism.com/smf/Themes/classic/images/post/thumbdown.gif)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 21, 2012, 06:41:45 PM
@meekon5 That Orwell / Huxley chart is very interesting. The powers that be are using both sides and both strategies in my estimation (and a lot more). As a side note; I have read both books (Brave New World and 1984) and I wish they would be required reading for everyone, at least while in high school.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Caesar dude on January 21, 2012, 07:04:12 PM
I've read and re-read them countless times...they scare me more now than when I first opened them!
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 21, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
HBO does some good stuff. Deadwood was brilliant.
FX now has some good stuff. Justified season opener was real great.
And there are some reality shows that I do watch.
Gold Rush, Moonshiners, Weed Wars and Full Throttle Saloon for a few.
Stuff like Big Brother and some of the MTV crap doesn't even merit mention.
It is a complete waste of electricity.

Sadly I do like some of the shows about people doing dumb stuff.
Jackass, Ridiculousness, Tosh O.
But I feel bad about liking them. That has to count for something.

When it comes to Grey's Anatomy there is something so ..... intellectually disgusting about it.
Friends had the same effect. It's kind of difficult to put into words.
A specific type of phony "aren't we all such a wonderful complex quirky bunch" when they
really are just phonies.


 
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 21, 2012, 07:33:41 PM
I've read and re-read them countless times...they scare me more now than when I first opened them!


Fuckin' eh!
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 21, 2012, 07:46:58 PM
HBO does some good stuff. Deadwood was brilliant.
FX now has some good stuff. Justified season opener was real great.
And there are some reality shows that I do watch.
Gold Rush, Moonshiners, Weed Wars and Full Throttle Saloon for a few.
Stuff like Big Brother and some of the MTV crap doesn't even merit mention.
It is a complete waste of electricity.

Sadly I do like some of the shows about people doing dumb stuff.
Jackass, Ridiculousness, Tosh O.
But I feel bad about liking them. That has to count for something.

When it comes to Grey's Anatomy there is something so ..... intellectually disgusting about it.
Friends had the same effect. It's kind of difficult to put into words.
A specific type of phony "aren't we all such a wonderful complex quirky bunch" when they
really are just phonies.
 

HBO has it's moments, but like many media corporations, the bottom line is the bottom line. I was amazed at the cheap shot they took when producing Game of Thrones, cheap in the sense of including worthless porno scenes just to appease the public's baser instincts. The sex scenes don't necessarily bother me, it was the fact that they added absolutely nothing to an already interesting story line and were there ONLY to attract interest. The story line was a great epic and didn't need the cheap shot sex scenes. If I wanted to watch cheap porno, there is plenty of that around. J.R.R.Tolkien didn't need to depict shots of some blond strumpet getting her ass banged by a mindless grunting loath to write a good story. IMHO.

(http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/eddard-game-of-thrones-preview-sean-bean.jpg)

Grey's Anatomy? Yup, I agree...boring yuppy slop.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: forumdude on January 22, 2012, 04:37:56 AM
IMDO, these are great:

Flight of the Conchords
Spaced
Breaking Bad
Parks and Recreation
The Mighty Boosh
Archer
Freaks and Geeks
The Larry Sanders Show
The Sarah Silverman Program
Dexter
The Riches
Peep Show
The Office (UK version)

Personally, I enjoy good TV series more than most movies. Though the worst of them (and yes, Grey's Anatomy is in that list) are brain poison, they are still not as toxic as most of the cookie-cutter car chase by the numbers shallow Hollywood films out there. Although the commercials you're forced to watch more than close that gap. One must download, or netflix them to avoid damaging the frontal lobe.

However, I think the best of them (such as those I've listed above) border on timeless and provocative literature with long, sweeping character arcs and the depth and complexity of great comic novels. Again, IMDO of course. I prefer the comedies as well as they're implicitly more creative than dramas and there are so many more directions they can take.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: forumdude on January 22, 2012, 04:41:57 AM
In regards to this topic, though, I'd say that any number of half hour situation comedies are worse than Grey's Anatomy. Shows like "Everybody Loves Raymond" or "Home Improvement" or the like. I don't even know any of the new ones. They are written by committees of highly paid robots. At the very least you might learn a bit about medicine by watching Grey's Anatomy.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: forumdude on January 22, 2012, 04:49:21 AM
oops, forgot a few goodies:

Nathan Barley
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Black Adder
Six Feet Under (grows on you if you stick with it)
30 Rock
Fawlty Towers
Damages
The Wire
....

Terrible:
Desperate Housewives (eviler than Grey's Anatomy)
Nearly every single crime or legal drama, including Bones, CSI, Boston Legal, etc. All mindless, numbing, safe and repetitive.

Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 22, 2012, 06:56:55 AM
@meekon5 That Orwell / Huxley chart is very interesting. The powers that be are using both sides and both strategies in my estimation (and a lot more). As a side note; I have read both books (Brave New World and 1984) and I wish they would be required reading for everyone, at least while in high school.

I've read and re-read them countless times...they scare me more now than when I first opened them!

Same here (to both of you), I first read 1984 (the book) just before it was actually 1984 (the year), Brave New World soon after. Add the Illuminatus Trilogy to the set and you get really freaked out and paranoid.

Back to thread subject:

Much to my great regret economics drives television. Gone are the days of the big budget high quality TV shows.

It's so much cheaper to send a camera and sound recordist to follow some egotist who actually thinks their point of view on some subject has some worth, than it is to set up a full production costume drama television series. Or even cheaper just buy old video footage from cameras fitted to police cars that are used to collect evidence, and would have just been wiped after the fact, but some clever bastard realised you can sell it to desperate TV stations who have little or no budget.

So we as a population are stuck (until the little stations think of a new radical way of financing themselves) with endless repeats (again easier than original program creation) or shite "reality" programs.

 :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 22, 2012, 07:43:53 AM
@forumdude   Fawlty Towers; OK, now that was a good one. John Cleese is a classic!

(http://www.topnews.in/files/john-cleese3.jpg)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 22, 2012, 07:47:13 AM
@meekon5 That Orwell / Huxley chart is very interesting. The powers that be are using both sides and both strategies in my estimation (and a lot more). As a side note; I have read both books (Brave New World and 1984) and I wish they would be required reading for everyone, at least while in high school.

I've read and re-read them countless times...they scare me more now than when I first opened them!

Same here (to both of you), I first read 1984 (the book) just before it was actually 1984 (the year), Brave New World soon after. Add the Illuminatus Trilogy to the set and you get really freaked out and paranoid.

Back to thread subject:

Much to my great regret economics drives television. Gone are the days of the big budget high quality TV shows.

It's so much cheaper to send a camera and sound recordist to follow some egotist who actually thinks their point of view on some subject has some worth, than it is to set up a full production costume drama television series. Or even cheaper just buy old video footage from cameras fitted to police cars that are used to collect evidence, and would have just been wiped after the fact, but some clever bastard realised you can sell it to desperate TV stations who have little or no budget.

So we as a population are stuck (until the little stations think of a new radical way of financing themselves) with endless repeats (again easier than original program creation) or shite "reality" programs.


Illuminatus Trilogy  ...must reading! I put that in the same category as Carol Quigley's Tragedy and Hope.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Hominid on January 22, 2012, 07:58:40 AM
@meekon5 That Orwell / Huxley chart is very interesting. The powers that be are using both sides and both strategies in my estimation (and a lot more). As a side note; I have read both books (Brave New World and 1984) and I wish they would be required reading for everyone, at least while in high school.

I've read and re-read them countless times...they scare me more now than when I first opened them!

Same here (to both of you), I first read 1984 (the book) just before it was actually 1984 (the year), Brave New World soon after. Add the Illuminatus Trilogy to the set and you get really freaked out and paranoid.

Back to thread subject:

Much to my great regret economics drives television. Gone are the days of the big budget high quality TV shows.

It's so much cheaper to send a camera and sound recordist to follow some egotist who actually thinks their point of view on some subject has some worth, than it is to set up a full production costume drama television series. Or even cheaper just buy old video footage from cameras fitted to police cars that are used to collect evidence, and would have just been wiped after the fact, but some clever bastard realised you can sell it to desperate TV stations who have little or no budget.

So we as a population are stuck (until the little stations think of a new radical way of financing themselves) with endless repeats (again easier than original program creation) or shite "reality" programs.

 :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

I don't know what it's like across the pond, but ya - we have shit reality programs as well, like American Idol... kill me mow please!!!

But there are also many well-produced big budget TV shows. I can think of a few titles that I can't cram onto my PVR because I can only record 2 shows at once. Castle, The Good Wife, The Gifted Man, Blue Bloods, Flashpoint, Harry's Law, The Mentalist... most have decent writing, interesting characters, and on-going sub-plots that keep one engaged with the show. Perhaps not as engaging as some of the Brit classics, but pretty good.  Now, if only the TV execs would stop fucking around with the schedules...

Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 22, 2012, 08:03:24 AM
But you see what I mean the majority of TV here is the same thing, with a few jewels that shine out against the shite.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Hominid on January 22, 2012, 08:16:45 AM
Illuminatus Trilogy  ...must reading! I put that in the same category as Carol Quigley's Tragedy and Hope.

Just bought it for my Kindle... looking forward to it. I've a couple spy novels yet to get through, and the latest edition of Philosophy Now... *sigh* not enough slacker time!
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Hominid on January 22, 2012, 08:21:26 AM
But you see what I mean the majority of TV here is the same thing, with a few jewels that shine out against the shite.

Oh sure - most is drivel, but it always has been.  Remember, it's a numbers game - they must appeal to the average IQ - and lower.  George Carlin once said "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."  I'm thankful that the programing gurus throw in some jewels now and then.  ;)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 22, 2012, 08:34:51 AM
Pearls before the swine? ;D
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: forumdude on January 22, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
Have any of you fellers seen Mr. Show? I think it may be my favorite show of all time. It's like Monty Python on acid. Or more acid.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: hannahdude on January 22, 2012, 01:58:18 PM
never seen mr. show but its now on the top of my netflix queue.
hey, remember when here in the US you never knew what the word ''queue meant, never heard it in daily conversation??? i knew it from either clash songs or sex pistols songs or something.
then netflix came along and i had to learn how to spell it. am i wrong?
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: WabiSabi on January 22, 2012, 03:44:48 PM
Here my bi*ch about it all ... the programs I most like, with few exceptions get killed too soon ... e.g.: "Lie to Me" (one of my all time favorites) ... "Rubicon" (I know it was sometimes like watching paint dry for all the non-action ... but really interesting paint) ... and the common denominators seems to be A) too little action - i.e.: no camera angle or scene changes every two seconds or less, B) too little sex or sexual tension, C) they're not overtly funny (comedy at least sells - hey, just like sex) and D) they aren't spectacular in terms of setting (e.g.: ... versus "Lost" or just about any J.J. Abrams project) ... FWIW one of my all time (other) favorites was Battlestar Galactica (the one with Edward Olmos as the Admiral)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 23, 2012, 10:40:52 PM
But you see what I mean the majority of TV here is the same thing, with a few jewels that shine out against the shite.

Exactly, that why I said posted that 99.99999% was crap. There are few jewels here and there.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 24, 2012, 07:29:19 AM
Here my bi*ch about it all ... the programs I most like, with few exceptions get killed too soon ...

Know exactly what you mean. There's that wonderful scene in Family Guy:

Quote from: Family guy

Peter: Everybody, I got bad news - we've been cancelled.

Lois: Oh, no. Peter, how can they do that?

Peter: Well, unfortunately, Lois, there's just no more room on the schedule. We just gotta accept the fact that Fox has to make room for terrific shows like: Dark Angel, Titus, Undeclared, Action, That 80's Show, Wonderfalls, Fastlane, Andy Richter Controls The Universe, Skin, Girls Club, Cracking Up, The Pits, Firefly, Get Real, Freaky Links, Wanda At Large, Costello, The Lone Gunmen, A Minute With Stan Hooper, Normal, Ohio, Pasadena, Harsh Realm, Keen Eddie, The Street, American Embassy, Cedric The Entertainer, The Tick, Louie, and Greg The Bunny.

Lois: Is there no hope?

Peter: Well, I suppose if ALL those shows go down the tubes we might have a shot


Is that irony?
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: WabiSabi on January 24, 2012, 08:01:29 AM
Ahhhh ... but you see I think there really be an evil plan afoot ...

I don't think it's every mere entertainment, I think it's all subliminal messaging!
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: WabiSabi on January 24, 2012, 08:10:31 AM
Okay, now you've gone and done it! I went back and read the entire thread ... (great thread BTW).

The Orwell/Huxley chart alone made it worthwhile IMO. Thanks for that M5 ... good shite that I'll be stealing to distribute (with due credit and respect to the "charter" ... and yes, I did like the pretty pictures too!).

So ... here's my quick take on taking the time to read through the thread ... some of you folks have some damn funky tastes in viewing ... and what scares me is that I agreed with the majority of it!!! ('cept I hate "Curb Your Enthusiasm' ... HATE IT ... whinny, complaining, neurotics just ain't amusing to me ... and I live too close to too many who find it hysterical to see themselves monkeyed to even want to endure it)

NOTE: It always scares me when I find a preponderance of things I agree with just about anywhere, except for in books written by really old dudes ... like 2000 and 3000 years old. It don't matter if it's stuff from the Nile or Yellow River or any waterway in-between the twixt and the twain :)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 24, 2012, 10:42:59 AM
The economics of TV are killing it.
We get Entertainment substituting for news because it's both cheaper and pays more.
We get reality TV because it's cheap to make. No writers or actors. It's pure profit.
It's appeal to the lowest common denominator. The bean counters tally it up and sadly, that is reality.
Same with Movies.
It's safer to just make Spider Man 20 because it's formula and a sure payoff.
A turning point was the notorious "Heavens Gate" which in included Jeff Bridges in the caste.
This documentary is pretty interesting. 8 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcRiPLp4oU

Includes commentary from the Dude himself.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 24, 2012, 10:47:05 AM
Heavens Gate don't they all die in the end (apart from the woman)?
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 24, 2012, 10:52:54 AM
Heavens Gate don't they all die in the end (apart from the woman)?

Not sure. I don't think I ever made it that far.
It's been many years since I saw it.

Oh no. That was the Cult not the movie.

Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: forumdude on January 24, 2012, 04:35:59 PM
One more recommendation: Strangers With Candy.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 25, 2012, 08:02:31 AM
The economics of TV are killing it.
We get Entertainment substituting for news because it's both cheaper and pays more.
We get reality TV because it's cheap to make. No writers or actors. It's pure profit.
It's appeal to the lowest common denominator. The bean counters tally it up and sadly, that is reality.
Same with Movies.
It's safer to just make Spider Man 20 because it's formula and a sure payoff.
A turning point was the notorious "Heavens Gate" which in included Jeff Bridges in the caste.
This documentary is pretty interesting. 8 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcRiPLp4oU

Includes commentary from the Dude himself.


The dude buys the whore house and lives in it; fabulous stuff, man! Great find, BD, very interesting documentary. I watched the movie after and have to say that all in all it was a good movie with awesome visuals. And of course Jeff B was his usual relaxed dude like actor. I wonder what he was paid; 20 grand and a beeper? ;)

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4517/thedudev.jpg)

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7128/thedude02.jpg)
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 29, 2012, 03:17:25 PM
In regards to this topic, though, I'd say that any number of half hour situation comedies are worse than Grey's Anatomy. Shows like "Everybody Loves Raymond" or "Home Improvement" or the like. I don't even know any of the new ones. They are written by committees of highly paid robots. At the very least you might learn a bit about medicine by watching Grey's Anatomy.

Yes but they don't take themselves seriously.
Grey's is a soap opera.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Hominid on January 30, 2012, 07:33:09 AM
In regards to this topic, though, I'd say that any number of half hour situation comedies are worse than Grey's Anatomy. Shows like "Everybody Loves Raymond" or "Home Improvement" or the like. I don't even know any of the new ones. They are written by committees of highly paid robots. At the very least you might learn a bit about medicine by watching Grey's Anatomy.

Yes but they don't take themselves seriously.
Grey's is a soap opera.


Ya, it is. Hard to swallow sometimes; my special lady likes it so I "have to" as well.  ;)  But, she puts up with my Bruce Willis and Jason Stratham movies, with TBL commentary thrown in here and there for variety.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 30, 2012, 08:16:35 AM
I can tell if mine gets into a funk about things and starts to bum.
She'll want to just sit in bed and watch episode after episode of Grey's.
That's the real evil of pablum like that.
Escape in to paper thin narcissism and false greeting card emotionality.
Granted it's a chick show.
But it's the sort of stuff that leads women to end up old and alone with a house full of cats.
Not with a bang but with a whimper.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: WabiSabi on January 30, 2012, 08:40:08 AM
BD ... brutal analysis!!!!

I'm not sure if I am in that camp or not, re: a house full of cats, but I definitely agree that it's pablum ... way too soft for my palate.

The challenge is that for most people "cogitare" ... is too much like hard work, so pablum it is ... ratings for the networks improve and remain high ... and off we go.

However, the ground work is laid in place in elementary schooling. Everything about learning is presented as "work" so it becomes unpleasantly associated. Worst "not knowing" what you haven't yet learned (because that's why you're in school to learn it, duh!!!) is punished. The typical punishment of course is being made to look like a fool in front of your compeers ... uggggh!!! So all learning is avoided ... and anything that smacks of thinking becomes associated with that and is likewise avoided.

Therefore any T.V. program or film that requires any amount of thinking to get to the entertainment value become "work" and it's cancelled before it's begun it's run.

By personal bitch of course is that those are the shows I most enjoy ... the ones that demand I am present to get them, the ones that play with my intelligence and not my emotions, the ones that don't end every episode with things all wrapped up nice and tight and neat as a drum ... but if I'm lucky I'll get two seasons before they kill anything like that!

FULL DISCLOSURE: Then again I'm a Midsumer Murders fanatic too ;)


Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 30, 2012, 09:27:41 AM
Hmmm.
When it comes to education the ax I grind is that it is passion killing.
A kid can start out with a genuine passion for something and the act of actually pursuing it just kills the passion. Why can't we teach math in the context of things that kids are genuinely interested in?
A kid loves video games or Star Wars, which I would say is an indication of both imagination and a certain fascination with science. But we extract the skill they need from all of that and present them in a dry boring way that leaves kids cold.

As far as the idea of making kids feel good about themselves or bad about themselves, not sure.
But the food for thought is that we see how fantastic kids in Asian countries are doing. We in fact do studies about what it is about Asian schools that make them so successful. And really don't come up with much that makes a lot of sense.
BUT remember that in Asian countries kids go to school 12 hours a day and failure is treated not just as embarrassing but shameful. I mean like the "I have dishonored my family" knife into the guts kind of shameful.
Sad to say that it pays dividends. Don't shoot the messenger.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we follow suit. But what we do is the worst possible thing.
We deal in half measures. We make kids feel bad about themselves and then tell them it's OK.
So we end up with the walking dead.
 
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: WabiSabi on January 30, 2012, 10:03:15 AM
BD we have to define it when you say:

Quote
We in fact do studies about what it is about Asian schools that make them so successful.

What does successful mean?

Are they happier, do they produce more innovative research? Are they more represented in Nobel or McArthur prize winners as a result? Are they more positively changing the world for the better, and creating more of a future that we all want to be living into collectively?

For me these are the questions that educators have to be able to confront and answer. The delusion that "education is the great equalizer" as the pundit of the status quo in Washington D.C. recently spat is just bullsh*t!!!

When you begin to look deeply into the education equation it doesn't actually pan out that way at the top. Sure the top CEOs of most multi-nationals are well educated ... up to about a basic university level, with very few having even masters degrees, and fewer still doctorates (there are some exceptions to this in the financial and scientific industries, but still very few).

When you look to the top 1-2% of all income earners then education goes out the door completely. Many entrepreneurs are NOT college graduates and couldn't submit a basic tax return on their own for the maths it would take. Many folks in entertainment and sports are in the same category educationally, but are extraordinarily successful in terms of income production and wealth creation.

When you look to the "happiness" scales you find it's worst still for the education argument. People who work with their hands, including visual artists, report being much more happy on average than people in "professional" jobs, i.e.: white collar work. During times of economic downturns craftsmen and women also have better prospects for remaining employed or getting re-employed than many white collar workers do as well.

I have two children and I'd never want them to have the kind of "success" that is foisted on many Asian children (not all of course). I want them to "Find Their Bliss" to use Joe Campbell's words. It's truly not about the money, beyond having enough to stay dry and warm, keep food on the table and get around as necessary. There is more to quality of life than bigger, better, more IMO.

I do lots of work in Asia, and I see and talk to children and parents who are dealing with 12 hour school days and homework on top of that too. These "kids" have no childhood, and that loss shows up when they become adults in many, many ways. One of the worst of them IMO is that they are way too prone to submit to authority, the system and society in general ... with all it's unfair imbalances and skewed rules. The striving for the top ... to die at 65 or sooner just never made much sense to me ... but, hey this is all just opinion man.

For my two cents ... personally and as a parent ... I'd rather my children find their own path with heart, follow it until it fills their soul ... and it's okay for me if they can never work out differential equations ... unless of course their path with heart is towards quantum physics or pure maths.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: meekon5 on January 30, 2012, 12:41:49 PM
Heavens Gate don't they all die in the end (apart from the woman)?

Not sure. I don't think I ever made it that far.
It's been many years since I saw it.

Oh no. That was the Cult not the movie.



Now they (Heavens Gate Cult) did all die in the end.

I've only seen bits of the film as part of Rich halls very informative insightful TV programs on the West and other aspects of America as reflected through it's film culture.

I'm not sure if I am in that camp or not, re: a house full of cats, but I definitely agree that it's pablum ... way too soft for my palate.

The challenge is that for most people "cogitare" ... is too much like hard work, so pablum it is ... ratings for the networks improve and remain high ... and off we go.

However, the ground work is laid in place in elementary schooling. Everything about learning is presented as "work" so it becomes unpleasantly associated. Worst "not knowing" what you haven't yet learned (because that's why you're in school to learn it, duh!!!) is punished. The typical punishment of course is being made to look like a fool in front of your compeers ... uggggh!!! So all learning is avoided ... and anything that smacks of thinking becomes associated with that and is likewise avoided.

Therefore any T.V. program or film that requires any amount of thinking to get to the entertainment value become "work" and it's cancelled before it's begun it's run.

But the economics of mediocrity, and the ease of conforming to the lowest possible denominator must also apply.

Why should the producers of the show have to spend money thinking of new and interesting scenarios when they can just apply the old adage "if it's not broken why fix it?"

Jaws 12
Rambo IV,V,IV
Aliens 17.

It is also the fault of inertia in the TV companies, and over expectation in the investors. Red Dwarf didn't become a solid "hit" until season two or three at least, then people went back and looked at the first series. Firefly (a personal favourite) was canned after one series, then they had such a reaction they went on to make the film, but no sign yet of another TV series.

One of the major reasons I follow and watch Japanese (or Korean) films is because they seem to tend to cater for a slightly higher IQ as lowest common denominator. Now even I will admit that my viewing could be skewed due to the fact that I only get to hear about the better products, so my perception has the crap filtered out before I get to look at it.

As for schools, they were never places of learning, they were always places that trained certain people to pass exams (of no practical use once you leave academia), whilst others are trained to accept the fact that they would repeatedly have their dreams crushed and destroyed.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: Landshark on January 30, 2012, 01:11:28 PM
I enjoyed the U.S. run of Life on Mars. I have only seen one episode of the U.K. version, but it just doesn't seem to have the same feel. I know the U.S. version was retooled to protect out or fragile minds.
Title: Re: Worst show on TV
Post by: BikerDude on January 30, 2012, 01:21:10 PM
Quote
What does successful mean?
The kids pass the classes, get better grades and go on to University to become engineers (or whatever).
In this equation it's less about happyness than about economics.
I mean if we want to teach meditation that's groovy but I'd rather not switch places with India in terms of GNP in the process.
Bottom line our educational system is sliding farther and farther down. We used to lead the world in the number of people earning advanced degrees. We are 14th now I believe.
You could point out all of the people who make it without degrees but I don't think you could point out a society with a high standard of living without a high standard of education.
That's the point. The overall level of "success" ie education ie knowledge. Sure knowledge is not necessarily the product of formalized education but when looked at on a larger scale (like all the population of a country) then it is a product of education. More people passing classes and going on to higher education equals a more knowledgeable society and one better equipped to compete in the world. The US used to make sense as world leader by that metric. We did graduate more kids and give out more advanced degrees. Now we have backslid and we have lost ground exactly as would be expected.

Typically people point out that Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard.
But they don't mention that he went to work for Apple. Microsoft started out writing software for Apple. Then they stole the idea of the graphical user interface from them but that's another can of worms entirely.
Bottom line is that Bill Gates could not have been Bill Gates if he lived in Guatemala or any number of other places.
I agree that this has nothing to do with happiness and as I said don't shoot the messenger.
I know it's very undude but fact is somebody is out to eat our lunch and piss on our rug.
What movie was it where the guy said "Money doesn't buy happiness" and the other guy says "Only a rich person could say that"?
There is something to that.
I don't need to be rich but I doubt that any of us would be very happy standing in bread lines.

So as you can see through precise didactic logic I have shown that Grey's Anatomy will eventually leave us all in bread lines. With a latte in hand no doubt.