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Abideism (Abiding without Lebowski) => General Abideism => Topic started by: Rev. Ed C on September 01, 2011, 08:17:43 AM

Title: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 01, 2011, 08:17:43 AM
A topic I hope to write more on for an upcoming (between now and doomsday) Dudespaper article.

I've always felt a good connection with the Sikhs for their ways of equality and no hierarchy, and this wonderful article that turned up in my paper on Monday highlights one of things I've not mentioned around here before, their charitable and community ways:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/aug/29/free-school-sikhs-birmingham?INTCMP=SRCH

I think this is a good start to explaining about why I so much admire Sikhs and why Sikhism is right up there for me alongside Buddhism and Taosim as a great compeer/influence for my brand of Dudeism, and I hope everyone's :)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Gary (revgms) on September 01, 2011, 09:13:30 AM
I dig that they have a martial element, but their monotheism is off putting to me, even though I get it, they are about wholeness not Yahweh. Their warriors are cool though, enlightened soldiers.

Ever notice how there are a lot of mentions about Buddhism from other religions in the region, but Buddhism never mentions them. Take saint Jehoshaphat from Christianity, it's fucking Buddha. It is known that there were Buddhist monks in the region and time of Jesus. Just say'n.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 01, 2011, 09:49:38 AM
Ever notice how there are a lot of mentions about Buddhism from other religions in the region, but Buddhism never mentions them. Take saint Jehoshaphat from Christianity, it's fucking Buddha. It is known that there were Buddhist monks in the region and time of Jesus. Just say'n.

Indeed, a classic theory that Christ studdied Buddhism and was himself a Buddha (with or without the Buddhist teachings), something I can really dig.

I dig that they have a martial element, but their monotheism is off putting to me, even though I get it, they are about wholeness not Yahweh. Their warriors are cool though, enlightened soldiers.

Yeah, well, Sikhism does have the martial side, but obviously that's in India's troubled past.  They don't tend to really get into wars now, although the crossed talwars are still a symbol of the religion, I see it as strength and unity more than aggression.

As for the monotheism, well, yeah, I don't find it offputting.  I think their practise of praise and song and music and poetry, from the bard Guru Nanak, is admirable.  They have only rituals of fun and joy, no judgement or exclusion, no taking from each other, only giving to each other.

I find the Sikh principals would it well in Dudeism if we take the "god" aspect and make it life we sing and praise instead :)


[edit]
Apparently, this was my 500th post.  I guess that's how much I dig Sikhism ;D
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 08, 2011, 08:30:57 PM
I think our connection to these sorts of Sikh principals comes under this great topic that GMS started: http://dudeism.com/smf/index.php?topic=1459.0

Engaged Dudeism certainly gets my vote.  We don't have to be like those Christian Aid guys, going out there and doing good in the name of Christianity, we just have to go out and be dude for the sake of others.

It's important to the Sikhs because they recognise the importance of community and equality.  A truly socialist faith.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 09, 2011, 03:20:45 AM
Well, sometimes going martial or ballistic is the only way to avoid nihilists cutting your johnson, so better be prepared than f***ed in the ass. imho

Anyway Indira Gandhi has been killed by two of her Sikhs bodyguards, so even they have nihilists or real reactionaries between them.

But this is almost the only thing I know about them so surely, as you say, they have a lot of good points to ponder. As for the God thing, well, if He's similar to the Good Lord, then, why not. If it's a dude-like thing it's cool.  If instead is some sort of "cut the heads of all those who are unbelievers" than it's not. 8)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 09, 2011, 03:45:05 AM
Obviously I'm not saying that the killing of Indira Gandhi wasn't a reply to an unchecked aggression. Things in India are pretty complicated. And obviously a cool religious movement cannot be blamed for the acts of a couple of members. Well, I don't know Sikhism so I'm pretty interested about this topic. Like a child .....  8)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 09, 2011, 10:41:17 AM
Well, I don't know Sikhism so I'm pretty interested about this topic.

I'll take some time to flesh it out later.  As a sort of practise run for that future article (the proposed part 3 of the "In Perusit of the Spiritual Bungalow", after Levelling comes Equality, then Sikhism).
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 10, 2011, 12:19:21 AM
Far out man! Seems pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Ruckus on November 05, 2011, 09:43:53 AM
The little Northern Californian town where I live (Yuba City) sports one of the planet's largest populations of Sikh-folks extant.  They're gearing up for their annual Sikh culture parade.  Always an awesome event.  They hand out free chow from their temple, shoot fireworks up in the sky for all who care to show up, and the whole mess injects a whole lotta dollars into our local economy.  Good folks.  They draw a lot of water around these parts.  Gonna be a good event.  I'll try to get some good pictures if I am able.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on November 05, 2011, 01:50:13 PM
Speaking of Sikhism..........

The only living master of a dying martial art


(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56352000/jpg/_56352032_sikh2_464.jpg)

A former factory worker from the British Midlands may be the last living master of the centuries-old Sikh battlefield art of shastar vidya. The father of four is now engaged in a full-time search for a successor.

The basis of shastar vidya, the "science of weapons" is a five-step movement: advance on the opponent, hit his flank, deflect incoming blows, take a commanding position and strike.

Check out - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Ruckus on November 06, 2011, 08:14:27 PM
Wasn't able to make it myself...  I had daddy duty.  But I scrounged up this posting of pix from parades current and past.  Enjoy. 

http://www.ypdtv.com/sikhtemple/
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on November 06, 2011, 08:19:33 PM
Wasn't able to make it myself...  I had daddy duty.  But I scrounged up this posting of pix from parades current and past.  Enjoy. 

http://www.ypdtv.com/sikhtemple/

Love those running shoes, mang!! ;D

(http://ypdtv.com/sikhtemple/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2010-yuba-city-nagar-kirtan-sikh-parade-pics-by-ranjit-kandola-338-1024x768.jpg)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Ruckus on November 06, 2011, 09:28:38 PM
They really pull the whole ensemble together.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: cckeiser on November 06, 2011, 09:28:55 PM
Yeah, but look at the guy...you going to tell him!?

Unibrows dudes...unibrows. 8)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Ruckus on November 06, 2011, 09:45:29 PM
True...  He looks serious enough to be a shark mohel.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on November 06, 2011, 11:10:11 PM
Yeah, but look at the guy...you going to tell him!?

Unibrows dudes...unibrows. 8)

Hassan Chop!!! ;D

(http://www.iranian.com/main/files/blogimages/3_Rabbit-Rope-Trick.jpg)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on November 22, 2011, 08:43:05 AM
Thanks for those links Ruckus and DB.
Fills me with good cheer on a slow day :)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on November 22, 2011, 11:54:16 AM
Well Dude Rev., glad you're back here.  ;D
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on December 06, 2011, 11:18:17 PM
Thanks for those links Ruckus and DB.
Fills me with good cheer on a slow day :)

Fabulous stuff, man; dudely like cheer. :)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Whit on December 14, 2011, 04:00:40 AM
I would like to point out that participation in violence is very different morally from the initiation there of. You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic, or as my Daddy always told me "Son, Never start a fight but always finish one." That is pretty much the Sikh model. Historically speaking they have almost always been on defense, and bringing huge buckets of whoopass to that side of the deal.. 
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: meekon5 on December 14, 2011, 05:47:23 AM
I would like to point out that participation in violence is very different morally from the initiation there of. You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic, or as my Daddy always told me "Son, Never start a fight but always finish one." That is pretty much the Sikh model. Historically speaking they have almost always been on defense, and bringing huge buckets of whoopass to that side of the deal.. 

I think Mr Gandhi may have some problem with this line of argument. ;D
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on December 14, 2011, 06:43:56 AM
I would like to point out that participation in violence is very different morally from the initiation there of. You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic, or as my Daddy always told me "Son, Never start a fight but always finish one." That is pretty much the Sikh model. Historically speaking they have almost always been on defense, and bringing huge buckets of whoopass to that side of the deal.. 

I think Mr Gandhi may have some problem with this line of argument. ;D

Yeah, but this is India we're talking about.  Gandhi was a hindu, not a Sikh, and there's not a lot of inter-religious dialogue in India.  Let's not even get into the whole Hindu/Muslim divide :)

I dont agree with the warrior aspect of the historical Sikhs, but then again I don't agree with the warring side of any faith (that includes the Buddhists!).  That doesn't mean I don't respect them for the core values (in spite of whatever circumstances drove them to war in times of turbulance).

It just so happens that I respect the Sikh faith above most others, mostly for their values of equality and charity, two of my own dearest values, and ones I feel that Dudeism also reflects strongly... and Gandhi as well :P
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: meekon5 on December 14, 2011, 08:32:06 AM
I think Mr Gandhi may have some problem with this line of argument. ;D

Yeah, but this is India we're talking about.  Gandhi was a hindu, not a Sikh, and there's not a lot of inter-religious dialogue in India.  Let's not even get into the whole Hindu/Muslim divide :)

I dont agree with the warrior aspect of the historical Sikhs, but then again I don't agree with the warring side of any faith (that includes the Buddhists!).  That doesn't mean I don't respect them for the core values (in spite of whatever circumstances drove them to war in times of turbulance).

It just so happens that I respect the Sikh faith above most others, mostly for their values of equality and charity, two of my own dearest values, and ones I feel that Dudeism also reflects strongly... and Gandhi as well :P

I just meant with the phrase:

...You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic...

That Gandhi would have disagreed with.

Your servant use too much salt in your porridge this morning mate?
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on December 14, 2011, 10:13:18 AM
I just meant with the phrase:

...You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic...

That Gandhi would have disagreed with.

Ah, I see.  Although I was making a fairly general comment about the whole thing, I do see you were being specific... but I think my ramblings still stand :)

Your servant use too much salt in your porridge this morning mate?

I'm not sure I follow you... is this an obscure reference I'm missing? ;D
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Whit on December 15, 2011, 02:11:26 AM
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.~Mohandas Gandhi

Meaning there is a time and a place, dude.  Absolute Pacifism is a Principle and Brother Mo said "A Principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings like us cannot practice perfection, we devise every moment limits of its compromise in practice."~Mohandas Gandhi

So i gotta go with, in practice, "Do everything you can to avoid a fight, but sometimes when you are faced with an unavoidable situation on it is better to take out the aggressors than to let yourself be done in, yes there will be costs involved to even the side of right (i.e. Donny) but you gotta do what you gotta do. It's hard to stand on the moral high ground from six feet under that hill." I also realize that this is the Lebowskiless section of the conversation but I think that the allegory in the film bears me out on this one as well.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Whit on December 15, 2011, 02:25:55 AM
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."~Mohandas Gandhi... that sounds pretty second amendmentish to me.


Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on December 15, 2011, 03:56:46 AM
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.~Mohandas Gandhi

Meaning there is a time and a place, dude.  Absolute Pacifism is a Principle and Brother Mo said "A Principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings like us cannot practice perfection, we devise every moment limits of its compromise in practice."~Mohandas Gandhi

So i gotta go with, in practice, "Do everything you can to avoid a fight, but sometimes when you are faced with an unavoidable situation on it is better to take out the aggressors than to let yourself be done in, yes there will be costs involved to even the side of right (i.e. Donny) but you gotta do what you gotta do. It's hard to stand on the moral high ground from six feet under that hill." I also realize that this is the Lebowskiless section of the conversation but I think that the allegory in the film bears me out on this one as well.

Nice chunk of philosophising you dug up there Whit.  I possibly need to study more Ghandi myself now :)

There's a lot of people here that are pacifist in principle, but to paraphrase my good friend, Rev. AF, "If anyone threatens my family, they better expect trouble".  He very much ascribes to the principal of violence is abhorant, but sometimes you need to defend against violence with violence... which is what this chunk of our discussion has been about :)  I think most Dudeists are of this persuasion, pacifist, but not without a will to beat back an aggressor who cannot be reasoned with.  If they won't listen to sense, or pleading, or take whatever's in your wallet, grab for your bowling ball :P

As for Lebowski references, that's all good.  It's a contextual analogy, not a senseless quote.  I use those sorts of things all the time just to illustrate points in a commonly understood format.  As long as it's in the Dudeism mix, and not just Lebowski for Lebowski's sake, it's all fine ;)
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on December 15, 2011, 12:23:25 PM
Thanks for the reference Rev. ;D

As one of my fellow italian priests said "don't fuck a stranger in the ass, unless he tried to fuck you first". We're pacific but we know that we can't be pacifist in 'Nam.

Said differently using the movie for reference if someone pisses on your rug than you can take any rug in the house, wheter the old man knows it or not. But never take a rug first. As whit correctly said never hit first but always hit last. Even if dodging before being hit is always advisable.

Anyhow, I find this Sikhism thread pretty interesting. Have a great whathaveyou dudes!
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: Rev. RJ Dudemiester on July 11, 2012, 07:57:07 AM
anyone ever heard of the Bahi Faith?
they are in some ways, the bastard child of Islam... but wait! the story gets better!
they proposed that all legitimate prophets were essentially the same- they were receiving enlightenment from the same source, and trying to present the message in their cultural setting.

to put it another way, all prophets where Buddhas, and religions were the mis-communication of their divine msg from the Atman.
Title: Re: Sikhism
Post by: HnauHnakrapunt on August 25, 2020, 08:42:01 AM
Quote
Indeed, a classic theory that Christ studdied Buddhism
The similarities are so obvious here that I am really upset when I hear from some Christians that Buddhism means worshipping demons.
As for Baha'i - it makes me smile a bit to hear from them: yes, all monotheists are equal but we are the most developed stage of this. Have your equality cake and eat it.