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Abideism (Abiding without Lebowski) => What is Abideism => Topic started by: Busmum on August 28, 2011, 08:56:32 PM

Title: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 28, 2011, 08:56:32 PM
i found this over on the "moving Dudeism forward" thread, and i edited it a bit:

... Dudeism isn't about spilling so much ink (pixels?) to TALK about a belief system and how to evangelize the rest of the world, and find meeting places. Shoosh, I seen that fail a few times before. Here we are, once again, the "haves" and the "have-nots", cause we're supposedly so enlightened. Religion is un-dude.

It's LIVIN' it that makes you a dude. Hence the word "abiding". If yer a livin' example of it, people will be attracted to you and ask questions. Abiding will spread on its own. "Grass roots" I think they call it where I come from. Otherwise, them folks lookin' at all this chatterin' from the outside will tend to tell you to shut the fuck up, 'cause yer just makin' noise....

many thanks, hominid, for a fantastic conversation starter!  ;D

you do have an excellent point about modeling behavior, and in fact i've gotten a bit of needling from some of my work mates for an abiding attitude towards the usual workplace drama; the interesting thing is how the hatefulness of the office drama has subsided a bit in the time that i've been there, imo.

as far as all the chatter goes though, this is how we meet and exchange ideas-- we are all spread out world-wide, and so must consider the forum as our local watering hole, coffee shop, pub, etc.-- i'm all for a grass-roots movement, and this is how we do it these days.

so... at work, at home, while commuting...how do we abide by example in our lives?  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on August 28, 2011, 10:45:59 PM
...hmmm, should I be peelin' the Dudeist fish sticker off my rear window, or is low-key marketing still dudeable?  Not that I'm a mere follower, mind you, but it does make leading by example more caricaturable...
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: cckeiser on August 28, 2011, 11:52:10 PM
It's just like my opinion...
Abiding isn't Dudeism...It's Abiding on it's own terms...without the Lebowski influence of Dudeism.
Abiding is more Tao then it is Dude. It's about gently allowing your Qi to flow through life...neither being too much...nor too little.
Too slow and you get mired in the mud...too fast and you crash against the rocks.
Abiding is the Middle way...to gently float through life.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: cckeiser on August 28, 2011, 11:58:45 PM
...hmmm, should I be peelin' the Dudeist fish sticker off my rear window, or is low-key marketing still dudeable?  Not that I'm a mere follower, mind you, but it does make leading by example more caricaturable...

You can be both...a Dudest and an Abodeist...and even a Lebowskist...if that's the way you roll.
I am often all 3...depending...8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: forumdude on August 29, 2011, 12:00:29 AM
Maybe Abideism is to Dudeism what Zen Buddhism is to Buddhism? The pure experience of Dudeness without the vehicles?

I was reading a transcript of an excellent audiobook called "Religions of the Axial Age" by Mark Muesse, and the part on Buddhism is especially interesting. I was reminded just how much Buddhism evolved from a method of liberation towards a metaphysical doctrine. Luckily Zen hung out in the shadows and followed Buddhism from India to China, Japan, and then the West, providing an offramp from the increasingly chaotic and crowded freeway of thinking too much. Of course, Zen became saddled with its own rules and ritual too.

Anyway, my point is, maybe Abideism could be a hermetic sect of Dudeism, a far more serious one  which protects the peaceful, unironic core of Dudeism. Just a thought.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: cckeiser on August 29, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
Maybe Abideism is to Dudeism what Zen Buddhism is to Buddhism? The pure experience of Dudeness without the vehicles?

I was reading a transcript of an excellent audiobook called "Religions of the Axial Age" by Mark Muesse, and the part on Buddhism is especially interesting. I was reminded just how much Buddhism evolved from a method of liberation towards a metaphysical doctrine. Luckily Zen hung out in the shadows and followed Buddhism from India to China, Japan, and then the West, providing an offramp from the increasingly chaotic and crowded freeway of thinking too much. Of course, Zen became saddled with its own rules and ritual too.

Anyway, my point is, maybe Abideism could be a hermetic sect of Dudeism, a far more serious one  which protects the peaceful, unironic core of Dudeism. Just a thought.

Dudeism Is the Tao of The Dude in The Big Lebowski...you embedded them together...we cannot separate them without destroying Dudeism.
Abideism is at the core of Dudeism, but it is Not Dudeism. Abideism is what The Dude does...but it is not The Dude.

The Map is not the territory.
 
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on August 29, 2011, 12:22:13 AM
...indeed, perhaps the ironic core of Dudeism is the most abiding aspect of its appeal... otherwise, if we are to expose the Tao of Dude, we must rather be Tudeists, yes?  Irony keeps the rug flat.  ... ehm, okay, don't know what that means...
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: cckeiser on August 29, 2011, 12:22:55 AM
Maybe Abideism is to Dudeism what Zen Buddhism is to Buddhism? The pure experience of Dudeness without the vehicles?

Oops...Sorry Ollie...that's what you said.
Yeah, it's Dudeness without The Dude! Well put. 8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on August 29, 2011, 12:35:08 AM
Is it then essentialism?  It seems to me that Dudeism needs The Dude lest it wander into the mysts of ... ummm ... not human things?

EDIT:  Ok. Abideism doesn't need The Dude, but it needs dudes... or rather, Abideism doesn't need, but Abideists need to be Dudes, and Abideism is not even nominal without dudes who can name it as such, or not.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: cckeiser on August 29, 2011, 12:40:02 AM
Is it then essentialism?  It seems to me that Dudeism needs The Dude lest it wander into the mysts of ... ummm ... not human things?

That is what we are saying...Dudeism needs The Dude...Abideism does Not.
Abideism is what The Dude does.
Abiding is what makes The Dude...The Dude, but it is Not The Dude.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on August 29, 2011, 12:44:02 AM
Right, I think my edit captured that, or not... But is there Abiding independent of any dude (and I include cats and birch trees as potential dudes here)?
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 29, 2011, 02:13:37 AM
Hmm... what to say for my first post apart from...

I'm not sure why I'm admin here :)

I'm not exactly Zen, I'm more about the living of the life, although I am into the philosophising (no, not the pontificating, as has been suggested ;)).

I'm not down with "evangelising", in fact I'm dead against it (in spite of what people might think).  I wasn't down with some of the evangelising went down in Edinburgh, and I myself refused to profer flyers, I just held them so interested folks could take them and ask my smiling, hairy mess of a face what was what.

I'm not about removing Lebowski from Dudeism, I'm about not playing up to it so much, so I guess a stronger Abideist movement of philosophy would lessen the Lebowskiism, making a more abiding, less parodying version of Dudeism... but I'm certainly not an advocate of pure Abideism without the loose, freeflowing concepts we've built on in Dudeism.

I don't really see myself being called an Abideist instead of a Dudeist, I just don't say Church of the Latter-Day-Dude.  I don't preach, in fact I don't even mention Dudeism unless asked about myself and my way of thinking (which often differs from the norm).

I might have said, if you were looking for someone to take Abideism into a proper branch, that Busmum is your dude, and someone like Spacedog, who's more knowledgeable about the wider tennets of these philosophies/religions.

I'm just an ideas/concepts man who likes to philosophise on life.  I'm not an authority figure (although I am a top-notch admin guy) and to be honest, I seem to be have become a bit of a controversial figure of late.

So, that's where I roughly stand, and why I'm not sure I'm the man to Admin these boards.  But, I have to go to work soon, and I'm not taking my notebook in today, so... I'll catch up on all this later! :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 29, 2011, 04:12:20 AM
At the risk of being not a golfer, and given that it's almost a year that I don't wander into the forum so I've lost a bit of the conversations, what's the point about Abideism and Dudeism? That is, are we splitting hairs here?

If I've understood it right Dudeism is based on its three pillars and Abiding is one of the three. Dudeism is the body and abiding is one of its legs, so to speak. Dudeism as a religion isn't based on The Big Lebowski so there is no need to detach from the movie, if the term is correct. For now the Dude is the best example of Dudeism but with time it can also happen that another character better expresses the tenets of Dudeism. I mean abiding is one of the things that makes a Dude a Dude.
If things gets complicated everything can go wrong, and we don't want to follow the tracks of other religions who went uptight right? And begun flashing irons or bowling balls on the lane. I mean I've become a Dudeist at least one year before seeing the movie so maybe that's why I don't see a literal connection between the movie and our beloved religion and no need to separate Abideism from Dudeism. Someone can abide without being a Dudeist but you can't be a Dudeist if you don't abide. Am I wrong?

Sorry for being a kind of park ranger dudes.  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 29, 2011, 07:46:05 AM
...hmmm, should I be peelin' the Dudeist fish sticker off my rear window, or is low-key marketing still dudeable?  Not that I'm a mere follower, mind you, but it does make leading by example more caricaturable...

but if you like your sticker...why would you do that?
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 29, 2011, 08:10:39 AM
At the risk of being not a golfer, and given that it's almost a year that I don't wander into the forum so I've lost a bit of the conversations, what's the point about Abideism and Dudeism? That is, are we splitting hairs here?

If I've understood it right Dudeism is based on its three pillars and Abiding is one of the three.

i don't think of it as splitting hairs, but i do see your point. i think of abideism of more like a specialty, not a separate concept...an outgrowth of the conversation of where dudeism is headed, which got very passionate, indeed over the last few weeks.

Dudeism as a religion isn't based on The Big Lebowski so there is no need to detach from the movie, if the term is correct.

well... if what you're saying is, it isn't intended as a movie-cult religion, then i think you are right-- the basic ideals of dudeism predate by thousands of years in some cases, and are updated for today's populace by using the idea of this modern character from a movie as a vehicle. 

but it does get taken as a movie cult, and these discussions branched off as a way to explore what all the ins and outs mean to some of us... not just in the iconography, but the egalitarian and gender issues, as well.

sorry-- gotta cut it short  :(  time to go feed the monkey  8)



Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: cckeiser on August 29, 2011, 10:37:56 AM
If we use the language and lines from TBL we are talking Dudeism. (In The Parlance of our times, pull a piece out on the lanes...etc) That is the intentional influence of the movie on Dudeism. We Can Not separate Dudeism from TBL...I would not and Do Not wish to. What The Dudely Llama has woven together let no man put asunder!
The problem it seems is several ordained ministers in the church of the latter day dude feel there is Too Much Lebowski in Dudeism and would prefer more Tao and Abiding and a lot less of the Dudespeak.
They would like to concentrate on what it means to Abide and leave the TBL movie to the Lebowskist.
Ok, if that is the way you wish to roll...fine...but that is Not Dudeism.
As it has been pointed out...it is only one leg of what Dudeism is.

And in my opinion...you are correct...All dudes Abide, but not all who Abide are dudes.

It is just that The Dudely Llama founded Dudeism based on The Dude in The Big Lebowski...If he had founded on some other dude like person in history it would not have been called Dudeism but something else and we would be using the language from that movie and we would be calling ourselves something other than dudes.

Dudeism is, and always will be, heavy in Lebowski...we can not take the Lebowski out of Dudeism...if we do...it is Not Dudeism...it's something else.

Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Caesar dude on August 29, 2011, 12:11:48 PM
I'm a dude: I have a rug and certificate to make it official....but more than that I have friends who substantiate the fact.

I abide: I really have learned lot about abiding this year with everything that has happened in my life. I've had to put most things on hold as you all know but my dudeist nature has carried me through without actually ripping anyone's head off.

I'm a Big Lebowski fan: I love the movie and as I only actually own three DVD's that should tell you something....the others are "what the bleep do we know" and "the Blues brothers" I want the Jungle book but can't seem to find a version that will suit my budget!

So all three tenets of Dudeism are allowed I feel and there really should be no schism...at the end of day we are dudes and we have Certificates of Ordination which means we are ordained. From Wiki: "ordination is the process by which individuals are consecrated, that is, set apart as clergy to perform various religious rites and ceremonies. The process and ceremonies of ordination itself varies by religion and denomination."

We all knew when we signed up that we were becoming members of the slowest growing "religion" in the world. Why should there be an issue now?

I may be being too simplistic about all this but then that's just me!

Peace and love to you all.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 29, 2011, 12:13:28 PM
Well, once again, not only am I not advocating the removal of TBL, only downplay, I would perhaps dispute something

Dudeism is about being a dude, it's not about being Jeff Lebowski, hence why we are not Lebowskiists.  He's a great example, and he's the inspiration, but he's not the only dude and we are not a movie cult, so why would some people insist on making it so, that's never been what Dudeism is about (not entirely, in part yes).

My standpoint is give a little slack on the TBL thing and use it as needed.  I reference it at about once per article, because there's usually something of relevance I can take from it and use to illustrate my point perfectly that almost everyone can relate to.  Likewise, I use other Coen films as points of reference, because if the message fits, use it, I say :)

I think excessive use of TBL has become a crutch at times, and a hindrance at other.  When it's too heavily used it's restrictive to the flow.  I think each person needs to find their balance, and if it becomes too much on one aspect of this massive thing, then why not just say you're a Lebowskiist and be done with :P  If I spent my time going on about one particular Dudeist influence, like a book, or a person, or a band, I think I'd just be a cult of the band, surely?

And anyway, one of the main beefs that people, including me, and several other prominent Dudes I know of, is that TBL is not only an exclusionary focus for women and non-caucasians, but to non-Americans.  TBL is a constant drag of US culture into what is supposed to be a universal philosophy.  I know few of the prominent Brits who really feel TBL has much to say to them, but Dudeism does (with or without TBL).  The Dude is not a figure that works so well in the UK, and maybe I'm wrong, but Andrea will tell me if I am, Italy as well?

Take the recent forum thread that caused issues as an example.  What State (not state of mind) Do You Come From?  Thinkingdude's first assumption was that Dudeism was an American thing and excluded all the Brits, Canadians, Italians and the Chilean, as well as anyone else from taking part in the discussion.

It's because of this overly heavy TBL take on Dudeism that I wanted to start discussing Dudeism in the UK and try and built up a cultural overview that links Britian to Dudeism using perspective from within and from without.  The Dudely Lama was 100% behind the idea and hoped other nations would follow suit.  Andrea actually has an Italian Dudeism website/blog that he runs which is quite popular and as I'm lead to believe is not heavy on Lebowski, but does use it.

This is an issue of balance and alienation.  The more TBL that's thrust unnecessarily into Dudeism dilutes its universal appeal and the scope of the message.  Remove it and it kills off the heart of what we have here, but inflate it and the whole thing blows up as just another movie-cult/joke with no merit.

Balance, dudes, balance.  Am I fucking right? 8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 29, 2011, 01:52:38 PM
Yes you're right.  ;D

no time to write now but I'll do it as the first thing tomorrow.

Cheers dudes!
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 01:21:24 AM
Hi Busmum, nice to meet you. Honestly I've lost the previous weeks conversations so I haven't really understood the Abideism thing. Maybe I'm wondering around but, well, let's go talking.

As I understand it the beauty of Dudeism lies in its simplicity that is if you abide, take it easy and avoid being uptight you are a Dudeist, whatever you call yourself. Plus, that's my idea, the beauty of Dudeism is that following only one of its three tenets you're actually following all three: if you're not uptight than you take life easy and you're able to abide..... Something like the three celtic knots.

As Rev.Ed said in Europe things are different than USA, as an example here LebowskiFest hasn't really got a grasp and similar experiments in Italy have had the same fate. Being right or not our Dude has always been seen as a bummer who smokes pot all the day and cares about nothing. We know that's the wrong way to look at the movie but a lot of people see him this way. And usually they are also either those who see Dudeism as a religion with too many rules for them or those who think that we don't want to earn a living by ourselves but just live on someone else's shoulders. I might be wrong though.

Anyway imho the movie is one thing and the religion is another and this could be pretty correct; if I'm not wrong not all those who go to the LebowskiFest are Dudeists, that's the specific place for movie fans and not all Dudeists are fan of the TBL. We are not a movie-cult and we can't be if we want our beloved religion to spread in the world.

As I see the connection between the movie and the religion, and as I explain it to my readers, is that Dudeism as a religion is inspired to the Dude's attitude to life. What makes the Dude a Dude is how he lives just trying to be calmer than everyone else and this it's the only thing that matters, or the only literal connection. Can you take life as easy as the Dude? Then you're a Dudeist. Can you not? Then even if you know every line of the movie and smoke pot all the day doing nothing (but tell me how do you get your money) you're not a Dude, not in the Dudeist meaning anyway. But whatever the case Dudeism is obviously interlinked with The Big Lebowski and as a wiser fella than myself said it will always be, because the movie was the spark who lighted everything.
I mean, TBL is not Dudeism and Dudeism is not TBL. For a movie fan it might be that driving stoned and having unprotected sex with someone you've just known is cool but from a Dudeist point of view is stupid, always imho. Dudeism is one thing, TBL is another but they are connected, in some cases literally but what counts for us is the Dude's attitude, not much his everyday life. At least this is what Brandt told me.

I think the balance thing Rev.Ed says is pretty correct, and btw as Dudeists we should always keep for balancing everything, for the whole yin-yang thing. But it's true that the TBL doesn't have the same grasp in Europe as it has in USA but it's also true that above 80% of those who get interested in Dudeism are because they've seen the movie and want to see in what conditions we're in. Then if they feel we are the right religion for them they stick with us.

Dudes, I'm beginning to loose my train of thoughts but I'll try to keep them for a while. :)

Let me see if I'm able to summarize my thoughts; Dudeism is inspired by TBL but you can be a Dudeist without having ever seen the movie; you can see the movie once every day and being in no way a Dudeist; this is Dudeism, following our three tenets with the other things of not pissing on other rugs and that what happens between consenting adults is their business; to be a Dudeist it is not required to talk using lines from the movie, even if a lot of us like it and btw it's fu***ng easier then using Latin; Dudeism is spreading in a lot of Countries, if I remember well there is a Dudeship also in Northern Europe; there is always room for improvement but there is no need to fix what works or to reinvent the wheel.

To summarize even more Dudeism is good as it is and I'm cool with that. As Rev. Ed said Balance, or Harmony, is the key to enlightenment.

F**k it, this has been exhausting. And I don't even know if I missed the point, oh well.

Have a nice whathaveyou dudes,  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: forumdude on August 30, 2011, 01:37:08 AM
well said, andrea. that's a swiss fucking watch. or an italian one, anyway. made me laugh to beat the band.

seriously, you're as good an advocate as any. what you just said should (imho, pending review by compeers) be dudeist canon.

thankee sir. you're a good mang and thurrah.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 02:16:55 AM
thanks forumdude, feeling like I've just found a ringer with one million dollars in it. :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 30, 2011, 03:28:36 AM
Thanks for the backup, AF, I was starting to feel like the lone park ranger back there :)

Makes me seem like less of a nut when someone agrees with me.  Two nuts in a pack, right on!

Great definition!
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 30, 2011, 08:36:46 AM
nicely done andrea-dude...  8)

that's as good a summary of what's been happening, conversation-wise, as anyone could wish, and i'm not sure i could expand on it, or even need to.  ;D preaching to the choir, mang!

keeping the 3 tenets in mind (which i visualize as a braid of sorts, like the celtic imagery you mentioned), a person's ability to abide has always fascinated me; speaking from a personal standpoint, i should probably be dead, and yet, i abide. i've worked with children who have been in the most fucked-up and horrible situations, and yet, they abide. sometimes i feel that we abide, because we must-- there's some innate force saying, "keep going-- you might be despairing right this moment, but there's a lane right around the corner that's been freshly oiled, just for you".

your points are all well taken, and as i mentioned before, i just feel very drawn to the particular aspect of abiding... which is sometimes easily explained by using language from TBL, and sometimes not.

To summarize even more Dudeism is good as it is and I'm cool with that.

not to discount the beauty of your post, but i think we can continue to work on breaching the gender, image and race issues, without compromising our ideals. as ed pointed out:

And anyway, one of the main beefs that people, including me, and several other prominent Dudes I know of, is that TBL is not only an exclusionary focus for women and non-caucasians, but to non-Americans. 

i understand the reference to the movie in that particular quote, but we have also been trying to address in recent weeks how we can go beyond stereotypes and reach people in a meaningful way of all genders and cultural backgrounds.  merely saying, "here's the image, and here's the word, and it's gender neutral. end of story", really doesn't cut it, unless we are actively living it in the wider world... so i'm interested in how people from all walks of life abide.

it's kinda the point hominid made in my original post-- how we live it, is important, and interesting to me, because our experiences are bound to be fundamentally diverse. lovely, isn't it?  ;D

 8) and i must say, i'm very pleased to meet you as well  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 30, 2011, 08:58:34 AM

We all knew when we signed up that we were becoming members of the slowest growing "religion" in the world. Why should there be an issue now?


you know CD, this is a good point... i did know that this was a "religion" as described... and i'm a bit peeved at myself for not taking that aspect seriously enough, because in general, i feel that a "religion" is vastly different than a "belief system".

unfortunately, i'll have to get back to this thought later  :-[ today is the first day of school for the joes, so i need to get my parent game on!

 8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 30, 2011, 10:33:14 AM
keeping the 3 tenets in mind (which i visualize as a braid of sorts, like the celtic imagery you [Andrea] mentioned),

Yeah, I dunnot why I missed that one... I braid my beard daily, my hair occasionally and wear a big celtic design belt buckle and a celtic pattern bolo-tie most days.  And yet, through all my (falsely) acquired celtic pride, I missed that perfect image.

I guess it can also be taken like the weave of a rug, for our Lebowskiist brethren ;D
A rug with only one colour of thread is a very bland thing.  It takes a couple more colours to throw into the weave to make the rich tapestry of what we're (all) all about.

As long as we keep this balance right, like the yin-yang of such aspects as

... humour/seriousness  |  science/spirituality  |  introversion/extroversion  |  selfishness/selflessness's  |  retrospection/foresight  ...

and other such things we'll make sure we're not straying into being something that's inbalanced, either as individuals or as a group.

Being all about "having a laugh" is dangerous ground, but so is being all about "serious focus".  It's like my article 'Keep It Limber, Dudes' which advocates a balance in the form of moderation.  The model of the rigid mind, tempered with the soggy mind being the limber mind can be applied to anything, not just alcohol or drugs.  If we're all about humour we're treading into the realms of the soggy, limp, useless way of doing things.  If we're only serious, we're rigid, inflexible and uptight.  Hence my take on gentle seriousness tinged with levity.  The limber path :)

I don't know who here's ever see Akira Kurosawa's 'Seven Samuri', the masterpiece movie that 'The Magnificent Seven' is based on (which I never have gotten around to seeing), but I always thought one character stood out as the most dude-like (although I also thought that Gorobei was also a pretty good example of dudeliness).

Heihachi is the good-natured, high-spirited joker who is charming, honest and focused.  He never stresses out, but he's not a fool.  He is wise and level-headed, unlike the polar opposites of two of his fellows - Kikuchiyo, the false samurai who is a piss-taking hothead, and Kyuzo the stoney stoic who takes life with a wise seriousness.

Heihachi is the archetypal dude.  He's not so much into throwing rocks as he is into splitting logs, of which he accomplishes perfect strikes until thrown a bit of a curveball in the conversation.  You know you can have a laugh with him and he's always got your back.  The serious joker! :D

[edit, realised I needed to conclude my musing... ;D]

Aren't we following in a tradition of those erstwhile serious jokers?  And aren't we trying to pave the way for future compeers?  We are the serious jokers, we are the dudes :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 11:34:04 AM
You're welcome Rev. Ed. Two nuts in a pack, you mean like testicles?  ;D

Busmum, far out. As for the abiding thing I agree with you, it's a special trait of special people be it done with a smile on the face, like the Dude, or more seriously, like many fellows human beings. Actually I think that abiding and going on is what makes a hero, a real hero, people who even if they have been hit by storms more than once in their life don't use it as an excuse to be a nihilist but go on with their life as well as they can. These for me are real heroes, and they don't need a pair of testicles; actually I know some women who are really heroes in this sense.

As for the gender, image and race, probably I'm missing the point but sometimes, sometimes, TBL is just a movie while in Dudeism we don't have any issue with race or gender or whatever. We are cool pretty much about everything since the only difference is being dude or undude. But discussing dudely about different points of view is always enriching so if these issues come out it's good to talk about them.

And as you say listening to other ways of seeing Dudeism or different experiences is extremely interesting and one of the beautiful things of having a worldwide religion. You and Rev. Ed are 100% right when you say that around the world Dudeism, TBL and a bunch of other things are seen differently or from others points of view. That's why imho one of the things we should do, as the dudely llama did in one of his articles, I don't remember when, is to make clear that TBL is a movie and Dudeism is a religion, sometimes they mix and sometimes they don't. But if somewhere someone discards Dudeism because it's based on an American movie character, well, we can't accommodate everyone in our private residence, sad but true. There will always be people like Woo.

But again a dudely discussion is always enriching and I don't have all the pieces of the puzzle so just take what I've said as a partial point of view. :)

Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 11:41:45 AM
Rev Ed, as for the balance thing you know you're right, even if sometimes it's easier said than done, at least for me. I'm not able yet to abide as well as I'd wish, but that means there is room for improvement. :)

Anyway, when I think about being a Dude I think of a bamboo tree, it flexes up to a certain point but then goes straight again, and if you are the one who bent it you risk a smash on your face, much like a world of pain. Isn't it inneresting?

Don't know much about Seven Samurai's characters, I've seen it but around 30 years ago but I find pretty dude Kung Fu Panda. He abides and reach his goal, that's what a dude does, I think. :)

Far out dude!
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 30, 2011, 12:27:37 PM
Anyway, when I think about being a Dude I think of a bamboo tree, it flexes up to a certain point but then goes straight again, and if you are the one who bent it you risk a smash on your face, much like a world of pain. Isn't it inneresting?

I like that analogy :D

I just used the old Rabbi Nathan adage: "At all times let a person be supple as the reed and not rigid as the cedar." for my article on balance through moderation http://dudespaper.com/keep-it-limber-dude.html

Don't know much about Seven Samurai's characters, I've seen it but around 30 years ago but I find pretty dude Kung Fu Panda. He abides and reach his goal, that's what a dude does, I think. :)

Kung Fu Panda is a dude in training, that's for sure :)  As for you not seeing Seven Samurai for 30 years... man, I didn't realise you were of that age, I thought you were "wise before your time", but it seems you're actually more "youthful after your time" ;)

You're welcome Rev. Ed. Two nuts in a pack, you mean like testicles?  ;D

I was thinking more of salted peanuts, a pair of old salts... but I guess you're analogy is pretty salty too :P

Ok, moving past the scrotal jokes... ;D

Rev Ed, as for the balance thing you know you're right, even if sometimes it's easier said than done, at least for me. I'm not able yet to abide as well as I'd wish, but that means there is room for improvement. :)

Well, we can't all be well-balanced to perfection, that's the ideal here.  No Buddhist is enlightened until he's a Buddha (and vice-versa), and likewise, no Dudeist is a pure dude until they reach this perfect balance and shrug off the stresses of the world and live down that perfect middle way of the dude.

We all stresspass and have moments when we lose our sense of humour or fall too deeply into it.  It's human.  All we can do is even things up.  If we've been grumpy for a while, switch it and lighten up once your grumpiness ends.  Throw a little unbridled joy back at the people who had to put up with you as a grumbling moper.  If we look to the past too much, look to the future a bit.  If we spend all our time doing things for other people, stop and take some time to do something for yourself.

No one can be perfectly balanced all the time, it defies universal logic.  All we can do, with practice, is keep the balance closer and closer without such wild swings in our behaviour or point of view.  If you try and temper your anger each time, maybe the next time it will come back a little less severe and you keep the swings more in check until one day, in many years time, you might not even notice the little ups and downs so much and become closer to a true you, not a Jeckyl and Hyde figure of extremes, but a gentle, centred, balanced individual who is only ever trying to be one person.


Busmum, far out. As for the abiding thing I agree with you, it's a special trait of special people be it done with a smile on the face, like the Dude, or more seriously, like many fellows human beings. Actually I think that abiding and going on is what makes a hero, a real hero, people who even if they have been hit by storms more than once in their life don't use it as an excuse to be a nihilist but go on with their life as well as they can. These for me are real heroes, and they don't need a pair of testicles; actually I know some women who are really heroes in this sense.

Yeah, I have noticed this in people.  It's a reaction to adversity.  It's kind of like "whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger" in some ways.  If you can come through something bad and keep the experience in your subconscious it will always be there to help you abide whatever comes next.  For Busmum to have noticed this in a school is a sad thing, but I hope that gives them the strength to truly bounce back and become happier people in the long-term.

And as you say listening to other ways of seeing Dudeism or different experiences is extremely interesting and one of the beautiful things of having a worldwide religion. You and Rev. Ed are 100% right when you say that around the world Dudeism, TBL and a bunch of other things are seen differently or from others points of view. That's why imho one of the things we should do, as the dudely llama did in one of his articles, I don't remember when, is to make clear that TBL is a movie and Dudeism is a religion, sometimes they mix and sometimes they don't. But if somewhere someone discards Dudeism because it's based on an American movie character, well, we can't accommodate everyone in our private residence, sad but true. There will always be people like Woo.

This is very true.  What we need to do is make sure that all dudes are accounted for and respected, no matter the gender, ethnicity, nationality, background, sexuality, political persuasion, etc.  If they're down with us, they're part of us.

At the moment, after the US, the UK seems to have the second highest Dudeist population/activity, followed by it seems Italy, then the northern European countries battling out for the next 4 or 5 places.  The attitude that a few people seem to take, which I think is precisely the wrong one, is to say "if you don't like it, fuck off and find somewhere you do like."

Now, I've not met anyone here who doesn't like TBL, both as a movie and as an example of Dudeism.  The word example is key there.  We need to be able to put in more and more examples of Dudeism that rank with TBL.  As I mentioned before, on the Dudeism.com website, the Great Dudes in History page lists The Dude somewhere in the middle of a random list of influences, and the What is Dudeism page doesn't even mention TBL.  But, the banner at the top of the page says that we're The Religion of The Big Lebowski.  Mixed message somewhat?  I know Olly's been stupidly busy for a long while and as these things grow it's hard to look back and balance out the old stuff with the new, especially if you're just one man.

Hence my efforts to try and get us all to discuss where we think we're at and going, that is "Moving Dudeism Forwards".  We need to move forwards, yes, but not away from things.  We need to look at where we're going and where we've come from at once and reach for that balance that will being to suit our little society so that it can grow and flourish as one, not as many all stuck together :P

Saying "it's fine, leave it as it is" is, and forgive me for saying, the true act of burying one's head in the sand.  Nothing is the same from one moment to the next.  The universe is destroyed and rebuilt for every instant of time, as the Buddhists believe.  Things are never the same, people are never the same.  Mountains are impermanent, one day they will be rubble, and then dust and then atoms.  "Leaving things as they are" is like damning up a river and making a lake.  Where's the flow?   Where's the Tao?  If nature had left things as they were there'd be no life, no evolution.  Leaving things as they are in just taking a snapshot of a perfect instant in time and holding it infinitely.  It doesn't happen.  Things change, things move, the river trickles on, even if we try and stand still in it.

This isn't about forcing change, it's about consciously realising what is changing and what will change.  You can't resist the passage of time, so why resist the movement of Dudeism?  Let's make a promise, shall we, all those who disagree with what they think I'm on about?  If I promise not to try and drag Dudeism forwards, you promise not to hold it back?  :)

There's a lot of people standing in the Dudeist river, and I hope at some point we'll have a hell of a lot more :D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 30, 2011, 12:42:40 PM
right the fuck on, man... and now i must go have a good cry, because i'm an emotional wreck today  :'(
keep the lanes open dudes, and the minds limber.  :-*

 8) peace and abidance  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 30, 2011, 12:53:05 PM
... and now i must go have a good cry, because i'm an emotional wreck today  :'(

:(

Hang on in there, Brandi!  After every run of gutters, be sure to expect a damn-good strike :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 01:20:10 PM
Hey busmum sorry for that. Or maybe it's just a needed thing. Anyway you'll surely know how to abide. Don't you?

Hoping I haven't said a total bull***t.  ???
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 01:29:47 PM
Rev. Ed, I'm 40, but 25 inside.  ;D
As for Dudeism being always changing..... you're right, as I said somewhere else sometimes Dudeism and TBL mix, sometimes not and at the end sometimes TBL is just a movie, what matters is the Dude's attitude to life. What I won't obviously change is our three pillars of faith, (I know these words will make someone angry  ;D ) and a couple of rules of behavior. All the rest can and will change, also because being us a strange kind of Taoist religion this makes a lot of sense. At the same time nothing changes because being our precepts immortals they won't change. I'm at my second beer so maybe I'm saying strange things. Anyway go on with your discussion, talking, whatever as it enriches and makes us think about our beloved religion. If we wouldn't talk about it we would eall be like others faiths, and we are not. This is a private residence but everyone has the right to express his or her own opinions. :) Fu****ng A!
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 30, 2011, 01:44:38 PM
Rev. Ed, I'm 40, but 25 inside.  ;D

That's funny, I'm 30, but 65 inside! :P
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 30, 2011, 01:48:34 PM
Fucking A man, fucking A.  ;D Anyway my special lady, and my mum too, sometimes say that I'm old inside, but that's just because I'm trying to be the laziest man on Italy, you know. :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 31, 2011, 01:50:22 AM

Hang on in there, Brandi!  After every run of gutters, be sure to expect a damn-good strike :)

Hey busmum sorry for that. Or maybe it's just a needed thing. Anyway you'll surely know how to abide. Don't you?

Hoping I haven't said a total bull***t.  ???

thank you good sirs; my hormones and i appreciate it!  ;)

it's ironic, really, because it is an abidance issue. i prefer the cleansing of a good belly laugh, but sometimes a storm of tears is what's on mother nature's menu.

i'm in the regrettable position, after many years, of having to work at a "job".

now, don't laugh-- in comparison, i was lucky enough to have employment for many years in a position that i viewed as my heart's calling, and by goddess, i swore on every principal that i held dear that i was never going to work as a wage slave again--

*screeching brakes* until the universe destroyed, then recreated itself (paraphrased--thanks ed, i think it was you that stated that somewhere, recently?), and i found myself on an all new trip, occasionally stopping short and saying, "wait- wtf just happened?"

there is comfort and strength in the fact that i do help people still... just not in the way that i love, or am passionate about... and it can be a cold comfort some days when i'm slogging through completely meaningless and soul-destroying office-dynamics bullshit.

and on days like today, when i see my former students flourishing, and elated to see me... well, my heart breaks, even as it's being remade, because i know that in helping those young humans learn how to learn, i gave them excellent tools to abide; and i must take the lesson back from them for my own sake.

now, where the fuck did i put that tissue?  ::)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Busmum on August 31, 2011, 02:19:40 AM
keeping the 3 tenets in mind (which i visualize as a braid of sorts, like the celtic imagery you [Andrea] mentioned),

Yeah, I dunnot why I missed that one... I braid my beard daily, my hair occasionally and wear a big celtic design belt buckle and a celtic pattern bolo-tie most days.  And yet, through all my (falsely) acquired celtic pride, I missed that perfect image.


i especially like the thought that one strand alone can easily be broken, while the 3 together forge a strong link that is often put to greater use.  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 31, 2011, 03:21:41 AM
Far out, that's a great way to earn a living busmum. Wonderful moments right? Far out. Sometimes we cry for sadness, sometimes we cry for happiness.

I think the strands thing applies perfectly to Dudeism. Mark everything 8. :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on September 04, 2011, 05:02:05 PM
Is it then essentialism?  It seems to me that Dudeism needs The Dude lest it wander into the mysts of ... ummm ... not human things?

That is what we are saying...Dudeism needs The Dude...Abideism does Not.
Abideism is what The Dude does.
Abiding is what makes The Dude...The Dude, but it is Not The Dude.

True; the dude abides, because he is dude. In other words, he naturally abides because is is already dude like. Abiding comes more or less natural. But, the dude is the dude, and abiding simply happens as a natural result. Abiding is abiding, dude is dude. They dovetail, but they are not the same.

...this after many glasses of wine. Fabulous stuff, man.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 05, 2011, 06:25:05 AM
Is it then essentialism?  It seems to me that Dudeism needs The Dude lest it wander into the mysts of ... ummm ... not human things?

That is what we are saying...Dudeism needs The Dude...Abideism does Not.
Abideism is what The Dude does.
Abiding is what makes The Dude...The Dude, but it is Not The Dude.

First off, I don't agree that Dudeism needs THE Dude.  Some people might like him and that's fine, but I don't see one figure being essential.  I hear a lot of anti-monothiesm here at times, all those religions with just the one god, Christians and their messiah, etc, but if Dudeism becomes just about The Dude it's just the same thing.  He's a figurehead and just another Christ parody.  And to be honest, he's not much of a Christ parody, because if I know The Dude, he'd be fuckin' pissed off that there were a bunch of people trying to imitate him, so he's more like a parody of Brian of Nazareth than Jesus.

If Dudeism clings to The Dude as this figure to encompass all that is Dudeism it might as well have become a branch of Christianity or another banal, spiteful little cult like the Pastafarians.  What we have is philosophy built on a concept that happens to be embodied by character in a film, it's not a cult of worshipping and imitating The Dude, it's a worldview that's shared WITH The Dude.

The Dude is one of us, like another other Great Dude (in history or otherwise), and we learn from each other.  I'd no more raise The Dude up than I would Digital Buddha, or Meekon, or Rev AF, or Busmum, or any of you guys.  If you're going to make a religion that's full of too much pointless imagery of The Dude, what not put Zendog's face over everything instead (that lovable old rascal)?  Let no Dude, real or otherwise, be raised above another.  No idolisation, even in jest, it's not a good joke if it's pissing on your ideals and the freedom of your philosophy, man :)

True; the dude abides, because he is dude. In other words, he naturally abides because is is already dude like. Abiding comes more or less natural. But, the dude is the dude, and abiding simply happens as a natural result. Abiding is abiding, dude is dude. They dovetail, but they are not the same.

...this after many glasses of wine. Fabulous stuff, man.

Is that a limber mind, or a soggy one? :)

I get what you're saying, DB, which is why the ideas about the tenants, or whatever we're going to call them, is such a great idea, to try and simply define the base aspects of what Dude is, what with Abiding, Levity and such'n'such.

These things do indeed dovetail, and make up the braid/tapestry of Dudeism/Abideism/Whathaveyouism.  But once again, The Dude is not an essential component, he's just a good example.  Could have been anybody got that job :P
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: meekon5 on September 05, 2011, 08:05:59 AM
Personally I think Ed's reasoning is the same line of thought that the Zen Buddhists have, Buddhism does not need Buddha, he is just a vehicle who has pointed the way, he is the conduit to move you on to what is actually important, the practice of Buddhism.

Personally I am reticent to define "abidism" as anything different other than the act of being Dude.

I fear that an increase in doctrine will only lead to (as others have voiced previously) a position where we have the "Abidiists" being the new Dudeist Pharisees.

Doctrine = Dogma = Stagnation
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 05, 2011, 01:41:11 PM
Personally I am reticent to define "abidism" as anything different other than the act of being Dude.

I fear that an increase in doctrine will only lead to (as others have voiced previously) a position where we have the "Abidiists" being the new Dudeist Pharisees.

Doctrine = Dogma = Stagnation

This is a good point.  I was initially hesitant about the whole Abideism thing, especially when it became separated from Dudeism in these boards, although I see these boards as a good place to discuss some of the important issues I felt were in need of discussion without aggravating the people who just want to have a laugh.  The boards serve as a warning that "some of this stuff might not be a complete joke, if you bore easily, don't read within".  And for that I am grateful, because the last thing you want to hear after a big long multifaceted post is "Dude, just abide".  I'm here to discuss ideas, that's what I do on forums.  I like to have a laugh while I'm doing it, but I'd rather my ideas were not dismissed out of hand without a few notes :)

I also see what you're saying about stagnation.  However, I feel that setting down a simple core is the only block you need.  It is the neutron from around which our infinite ramblings and musings form the fuzz of the electron field.  I understand that setting anything in stone is a bit daunting when you look at our basic ethos, but my point was that if you do not define that it is to be Dude at the most basic, core level, a Dude can morph into anything and suddenly a Dude could slide into being a "shaven-headed hermaphrodite who enjoys kicking cats do death".  Obviously, we know what it is to be Dude at its most basic level (the neutron), and the rest is all how you live your life based around that core ideal (the electron fuzz).

There no need for doctrine, only something akin to a dictionary definition merged with a small set of precepts to qualify being Dude (take it easy, don't kick cats to death, etc) and a front page to any book on Dudeism.

At the moment we're throwing ideas at a very large wall to try and come up with something that is at least semi-defineable to make this one core pin-point, but we're not even purchased the chisel yet, so no one's saying "this is it" :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on September 05, 2011, 02:34:52 PM
I'd imagine, though, that just as the historical base of Dudeism, standing as it does on Lebowski-the-Younger, is in some manner inextricably entwined with the thesbian exploits of Mr. Bridges, so too, insofar as Abideism nominally shares its particular origin of expression through that same mechanism, it, as well, is rooted in The Dude... or perhaps more correctly, in The Stranger's evaluation of The Dude's dudely manner, as per scripted and subsequently Taoized-up by the creators of this website.  Isn't such simply unavoidable, not as a matter of doctrine, but basic review of the facts?  Or am I blathering a fundamentalist digression?

On a separate matter:  Would The Dude really run himself over if he saw himself on the side of the road?  Well, ok,  maybe accidentally.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Caesar dude on September 05, 2011, 04:56:42 PM
entwined with the thesbian exploits of Mr. Bridge (http://entwined with the thesbian exploits of Mr. Bridge)

Whow!!! Now I seen a lot of lesbians....and I seen a lot of actors....but I ain't never done seen a Jeff Bridges full blown thesbian scene!  :o  ;)

Peace my erudite friend.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on September 06, 2011, 12:44:26 AM
Wow Caesar dude, then ya just GOTTA check out The Last Picture Show!!!


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dXG5qWwAqrI/TS-Ls97Y1PI/AAAAAAAAHcM/yPuP8iI3uoQ/s1600/the-last-picture-show-movie-image-jeff-bridges-600x396.jpg)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 06, 2011, 01:23:22 AM
Actually Dudeism is already a different thing from TBL, as DL has said a lot of times. The Dude is just a good, and well known, example of the Dudest attitude to life, which is not being a stoner but taking 'er easy and trying to be always calmer than you are. But, but, just like with the three core principles of Dudeism, Jeffrey Lebowski has been the spark which lighted Dudeism so it will always be a part of Dudeism too. Not to be confused with a kind of JCD clone. We don't need it and we won't have it. Can you imagine what would the Dudely Llama say about this happening? Probably something like: You have a pretty wrong frame of reference. And the Dude would just put his sunglasses on and leave the room.

Only a portion of Lebowski fans become Dudeist and only a part of them become Dudeist Priests, that's the way it goes.

As meekon pointed out, with reference to water which is the best example of Taoism and Dudeism attitude, stagnation means death, and stinks. Probably there isn't the need for more doctrine, but there is for a more clear "definition" of what Dudeism is. Otherwise this topic wouldn't have seen the light. That is some misunderstand what Dudeism is. And sometimes it could be good for every Priest to have another look down there to what Dudeism is.

As for me the only thing I'll add to, at least for now, the three basic teachings or whathaveyou of Dudeism would be a compulsory seriously silly attitude. But a couple of sentences more about respect or other things do not add any doctrine, just help to keep waters clearer.

Anyway let me cite something from two of the wisest men on Earth.  8)


ArchDudeship from I can get you a Vow article on the Dudespaper:

To just take it easy, man
To spread the dude word when it?s not too exhausting
To always make time to have some burgers, some beers, a few laughs
To check in to see what condition my condition is in
To not treat objects like women, man
To uh?lost my train of thought there
To keep my mind limber
To enjoy natural, zesty enterprises while fixing the cable
To never repeat what a stranger on the phone tells me to say
And always, in a world gone crazy, to abide


Oliver Benjamin from the article on cnngo.com:


"Following Dudeism helps you to keep in mind what's important in life, what actually makes people happy instead of what makes them insane."

"One problem also is that too many people just think the Dude is a burned out hedonistic stoner. Nothing could be further from the truth. He's an intellectual with strong moral character and a lively, creative mind.

"He's also a stoner, but that's not a bad thing. Too many people confuse Dudeism with anarchism or selfish laziness. Dudeism recognizes the need for organization and rules, and the laziness it touts is disciplined and determined."

F***ng interesting and fabulous stuff right?  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: meekon5 on September 06, 2011, 06:14:46 AM
I'd imagine, though, that just as the historical base of Dudeism, standing as it does on Lebowski-the-Younger, is in some manner inextricably entwined with the thesbian exploits of Mr. Bridges,...

Have to disagree with this assumption.

Mr Bridges is merely attempting to portray the characterisation (written by the Coen brothers) of the real Dude Jeff Dowd (who they based the character on).

We take example from the film version as the real life version is little documented. Again I have to bring up the idea of the finger and the moon parable.

Live your life like the Dude don't try to become the Dude.

(Oh and be careful with those polysyllabics you could cut yourself on them).
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 06, 2011, 01:20:27 PM
"Live your life like the Dude don't try to become the Dude."

If I understand it correctly this is fucking ingenious. Am I wrong?  :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 06, 2011, 02:25:38 PM
Live your life like the Dude don't try to become the Dude.

This is a point we can't stress enough.  I've been making this for weeks, but there seems a lot of resistance to the idea.  Draw influence, no not imitate.

As The Dude imitates no one, to imitate The Dude is impossible!  It's a pure paradox.

Even The Abide Guide throws us the this concept in full glory:

Quote
[Bruce] Lee said: "Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it."
Never one for pretense, the Dude was always at ease with himself and had obviously spent much of his life avoiding the square community's ideas of success.

The notion that trying to imitate The Dude is a deadened.  Trying to be yourself in the same spiritual sense as The Dude works fine, but you might as well pick any admirable dudely figure to follow if that's the case.  I think I share more in common with a man like Bill Bailey than I ever could with The Dude, but once again, to draw influence from is key, not pure imitation.

To imitate instead of drawing influence is akin to Buddhists reading the scriptures for ways to seek enlightenment.  If Siddhartha did not read from a scripture to become enlightened, how will that help you??  Draw influence from him, do not follow his every word, that's not why he's telling you all that... you've mythed the point! :)

As always, glad to have you onside for this one Meekon, and Andrea :D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 06, 2011, 02:57:57 PM
In fact... to address my point further...

A high level of incorporation of The Dude is more akin to dogma and iconography that fits in with the sort of religious practices that Dudeism was founded to be an alternative to.

Things like The Dude's Prayer and some examples of wedding ceremony scripts, 'baptism' practises, the shrine to Maude on the website and other such stuff that include a lot of pointless Lebowski parody forced in with Christian (and almost only Christian) parody is keeping Dudeism from being what its supposed to be.  A loose, eastern-philosophical style atheistic (without the inclusion of a god) / agnostic (still looking for answers) religion that centres on a belief in how life and the universe work and how best to live said life in said universe.

People seem to want to hold on to Lebowskiism as some sort of holy parody, which is pretty much akin to the poisonous bile that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has running in its veins.

Once again, my point is we don't need to lose The Dude, we want to keep him, but we don't want him being a figurehead and an anchor to religious structure that we don't agree with.  We want him in there, as an equal, with the rest of the influential Dudely figures.

From this point of view, the Dudeism.com website is a bit confusing, because it claims to be the Religion of The Big Lebowski and be filled with a lot of TBL parody in its fake self-help books, it's rather meaningless Dude de Ching interpretation of the Tao and its shrine to Maud where you can "pray".  However, on the other hand, the great dudes in history page lists The Dude in the mix, not at the top of the page, and the What is Dudeism page doesn't mention The Dude or TBL at all.

So, some of the site, primarily the key explanation of what Dudeism is, tells us that we don't need Lebowski for anything but it's nice to have him on board.  But then, the rest of the site, including the banner at the top of the browser window seem to say it's all about a Lebowskiist parody of Christianity.

So far, mixed messages have formed, and I think what we're doing here is trying to hammer them out and create a sense that Dudeism has more meaning to it, without making it all about some serious doctrinal organisation.  We want it to be a flowing, evolving thing that's not anchored by one heavy albatross :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on September 06, 2011, 10:57:34 PM
I vote this thread "The Best Fucking Forum Conversation To Date". Rev, Andrea, Meekon - Y'all get awards for helping define and galvanize what all this abidin' is about. I'm thuroughly impressed. But this simple dude does have some thoughts:

The effort to differentiate between a religion and a belief system goes beyond (what I think) is the intent of being a Dudeist priest, as I don't think (...correct me if I missed something), the Dudely Lama envisioned such hair splitting. I see it all as a lark; something to harpoon real religions (Christian or not), placing " abiding" at the core; using an ethos to replace dogma. Those wanting to separate the two are taking it seriously beyond the founder's goal and vision, which is my interpretation of the whole Dudeism thing. To me, taking it further and SERIOUSLY being a dudeist priest, hanging a shingle identifying oneself as such, going full boat... Personally, who would take you seriously as a philosopher, stating your values are based on those of a character of a movie. Ya, OK, there's people who claim to be Jedi, but who doesn't smirk behind their backs?  Having a core set of values that may PARALLEL those of a pop culture icon is the fodder for doctorates, not the other way around.

Ooh, I like being a shit disturber. Homemade wine does that.

Or am I right? Am I trying to combine too many threads? It seems some are trying to find a place to hang their hat philosophically, which is cool.  "Abiding", IMHO should not have a label. Being ordained as a Dudeist priest is pure entertainment. Nothing more.

Quoting lines from TBL is fun, dudefests are fun, abiding is important. I guess though, I'm just not getting the effort put into trying to succinctly separate all these threads... I guess I'm just a simple dude trying to keep his rug clean.

Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on September 07, 2011, 12:43:15 AM
Follow up post, which I think is very dudely:

"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary."

Steve Jobs
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: apnp on September 07, 2011, 01:20:05 AM
I guess that's the way the whole durned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself.

Personas hook us into emulating what we approvingly perceive, but we're left to act upon only our own reflection... or is that too Shinto?

Anyhow, what I am abided most by, thusfar, in my admittedly nascent Dudeist sojourn, is the humour of the play... I would hope, at least, that it is appropriate to suppose that any Abidism which disdains The Dude (I can't yet speak of The Dowd) is simply unabideable.  We're not supposing a mission to include everyone, are we?  Inclusion is a nebulous concern, ...but that's like just my opinion... ;)

p.s.  please feel free to include me as you will... as you will...  :-*
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 07, 2011, 02:38:16 AM
Thanks Rev. Ed, this modest task we have self appointed upon ourselves can help clarify our idea of Dudeism, or just make things a mess, well, we'll see where this trail goes. Don't know if it's correct english but I hope you get the point. As someone else said we are a bunch of friends talking at the pub.  8)

As for the Christian like things, Catholic actually, anyway, I stick to the idea that Dudeism is trans-religious and trans-philosophic; that is it's over them and not specific. You can keep your previous religion and still be a dude if you behave in a dude way. Dudeism encompasses everything which is dude, as the western counterpart of Taoism. Let me make a comparison with JCD Golden Rule, it's not actually a feature of RC (Real Christianity) but an idea present in many religions and cultures. Dudeism is not really atheistic otherwise we couldn't be a home for religious people, as we are. The position about God is that we are not interested in this as his existance cannot be proved, or disproved, so it doesn't really matter. What matters is if you live a dudely life, which send us to understand what a dudely life is. A good example though is Rev. Shawna Lee lines from her article on the Dudespaper: http://dudespaper.com/loosening-my-train-of-thought.html

"Dudeism is based on the ancient Taoism, a philosophy full of wisdom, humor, connection with the natural world, and respect for all creatures, then filtered through a hilarious and wonderfully crafted modern movie. The followers tend to be smart but kind, funny but not disrespectful, and just not weird. Seriously, what?s not to like?"

Is she wrong?

I see your point on the parody thing. But given that we are from the West, most of, it's pretty natural that the first example which comes to our mind is a comparison with Catholicism.
And given that in this world we live in people needs ceremonies if we want to be Revs we have to have ceremonies, also, it's a legal thing and that's how this world is organized. I think we just have to find our personal style, but we need to begin somewhere.

Then, you're right, The Dude must not become a dogma, he's just a good example of what a dude is. But I find pretty interesting that some who hate dogma or doctrine are very interested in having The Dude as the sacred icon of Dudeism, pretty interesting uh? Sorry for the repetitions.

Anyway Dudeism, given its philosophy and ideas or whathaveyou, can be joined by people, like I was, who have never seen TBL, and this is the really cool thing of our beloved religion. Plus that they could even never see the movie and still be the greatest dudes of all time. Again, isn't it cool? Mr. Benjamin is a f****ng genius.


Hominid, thanks for the vote up.  8)

Obviously your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated dude. Actually the effort to differentiate religion and belief system or spiritual philosophy is not only beyond the intent of being a Dudeist Priest but useles as what we call here in the West religion is called belief system or philosophy in the East. We are talking about the same thing with different words. Only that philosophy is the only word which doesn't make anyone uncomfortable; religion and belief to some are far worse than vagina.  :o

"Something to harpoon real religions (Christian or not), placing " abiding" at the core; using an ethos to replace dogma."

This is a good point. As well as homebrewing wine, but let me add a couple of points: Dudeism isn't based on TBL, I know it seems to but Dudeism takes from The Big Lebowski the attitude to life of The Dude, not the fact that he smokes pot, not that he's unemployed, not that he drinks and smokes while driving, etc. But that he just takes her easy abiding and not being uptight. That's it. Obviously TBL works as a bridge between TBL and Dudeism, I mean when you say "I'm a Dudeist" many people would just say "WTF are you talking about?" while if you say "I follow the path of The Dude of TBL" they would probably say something like "I see, is it cool?" TBL is better known than Dudeism but the more you wander around Dudeism the more you see that in reality Dudeism and TBL are in reality pretty different and distant. Or are they not?

And being ordained is pure entertainment if you want to see it that way, is only for yourself if that's the way you roll, is a seriously silly thing if that's your game, And the beauty of Dudeism is that you're right in every case, if you just take it easy. Isn't simply great? That's why Dudeism ties everything together, does it not? The only rule about the rest of the world is that we welcome everyone who is a dude. That's why here and there some of us are trying to clarify what being a dude means, to benefit all of us. At least that's the modest task.

Good points hominid.  8)

Rev. apnp I agree with you, humor is one of the most, if not the most, important features of Dudeism. Without humor you're just another uptight amateur. We always try not to lose it, and Rev. Meekon always does his best about it.  ;D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 07, 2011, 07:57:18 AM
I vote this thread "The Best Fucking Forum Conversation To Date". Rev, Andrea, Meekon - Y'all get awards for helping define and galvanize what all this abidin' is about. I'm thuroughly impressed.

I'll try not to take it too personally that I was left out of those name-checks, although I suspect that once again I'm the one that's been maligned as the one trying to take it too seriously :P

Nothing can be further from the truth.  The thing about being serious and having a laugh is that there should be no distinction between the two!  If you have serious parts and jokey parts it doesn't work.  You need something that's a serious joke.  Deep thoughts tinged with levity and wit coloured intellectual grey.

But this simple dude does have some thoughts:

The effort to differentiate between a religion and a belief system goes beyond (what I think) is the intent of being a Dudeist priest, as I don't think (...correct me if I missed something), the Dudely Lama envisioned such hair splitting. I see it all as a lark; something to harpoon real religions (Christian or not), placing " abiding" at the core; using an ethos to replace dogma. Those wanting to separate the two are taking it seriously beyond the founder's goal and vision, which is my interpretation of the whole Dudeism thing. To me, taking it further and SERIOUSLY being a dudeist priest, hanging a shingle identifying oneself as such, going full boat... Personally, who would take you seriously as a philosopher, stating your values are based on those of a character of a movie. Ya, OK, there's people who claim to be Jedi, but who doesn't smirk behind their backs?  Having a core set of values that may PARALLEL those of a pop culture icon is the fodder for doctorates, not the other way around.

Now, I'm not sure who you're referring to when it comes to "Those wanting to separate the two are taking it seriously beyond the founder's goal and vision".  I've never seen anyone taking Dudeism seriously.  But, there are people who take it as a joke.  It's neither!

And no one's trying to base a philosophy on the movie here... that's what this thread is about, separating the philosophy from the movie which is making too much of a joke out of something that has a wider potential.  The idea is to have this genuine philosophy that's been around in unspoken terms for longer than we can track.  The philosophy is the easygoing way to a happy life where you're not sober or drunk, you're limber, and you're not serious or joking, you're eternally lighthearted :)

These is to separation going on here.  To say things shouldn't be serious is a claim for separation.  Serious and joking should always be the same around here, but all too often people assume because I don't shoehorn in 20 Lebowski quotes per post that I'm being a serious fuck... yet I'm not the only one to bring up long and intricate ideas here, but I don't see anyone else taking flak for it :P

The DL always thinks of me as being a big-hitter, because of the sort of articles I write, but that's needed because it balances with all the lighter stuff that goes into the DP.  I'm not going to apologise for tackling big issues around here (least of all as it recently stopped Meekon from riding out of town on his ox ;)) because I think they're highly necessary, or this might as well be a community of Lebowskiists endlessly quoting the same small stock of lines at each other, which is not what Dudeism is about.  It may have elements of that, for those that enjoy that kind of thing, but we're talking about it taking over, which wrong-foots some of us who are not so down with that.

Personas hook us into emulating what we approvingly perceive, but we're left to act upon only our own reflection... or is that too Shinto?

Inner-estin' point there, apnp.  That could certainly be true.  The act of emulation is always going to be a flawed one, but I still think my point is that emulating The Dude is to be unlike The Dude, who emulates nothing, which as I say, is one of the big flaws a lot of Buddhists have.  It's a mythed point!

Wanting to be more dude-like is the aim here, not more THE Dude-like.  This isn't about a character, it's about an ideal of which the character is a part of.  So, in that way you're really quite correct.  We all try and reflect the "dude way" but in our own way... which is almost never going to be The Dude's way, it will always be our own... so why get hung up on The Dude?

Anyhow, what I am abided most by, thusfar, in my admittedly nascent Dudeist sojourn, is the humour of the play... I would hope, at least, that it is appropriate to suppose that any Abidism which disdains The Dude (I can't yet speak of The Dowd) is simply unabideable.  We're not supposing a mission to include everyone, are we?  Inclusion is a nebulous concern, ...but that's like just my opinion... ;)

Once again, I'm a little confused that anyone would take from any of these threads that anyone where actively disdains The Dude.  It's not, never has been and never will be about removing The Dude or TBL from Dudeism, it's about downplaying it, because Dudeism is not, was never and will never be all about them.  It's once facet which has become disproportionate to the rest of our Dudeist philosophy.  And, once again, The Dude is not a character for the world, he's a character mostly for America.  Dudeism works just fine with our open and wide-reaching grasp of the universe... it doesn't work at all if it's just tied into the 90min of a Hollywood movie (even if it is a Coen Brothers film, which trumps everything else in Hollywood ;D).

And yes, surely Dudeism IS open to all.  Inclusion is universal, as long as people can dig our style and be dude.  If Dudeism is only for Lebowskiists and clones of The Dude, then a hell of a lot of people here will have to walk :P

Boxing Dudeism into TBL is creating some really uptight thinking.  Not including TBL creates a lacking in the philosophy the same as if we ignored any other influential source.  We're about opening up the potential and running around with it.  Lebowskiian philosophy is just a small bungalow, but Dudeism is an endless field in which to run and play, with the universe shining above us to ponder and wonder at.  The bungalow is part of the field, it's not the whole of the field :D


Rev. AF... let me get back to you later.  Lot points to cover, I need to take a break for a short while here :P
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: meekon5 on September 07, 2011, 08:15:21 AM
I vote this thread "The Best Fucking Forum Conversation To Date". Rev, Andrea, Meekon - Y'all get awards for helping define and galvanize what all this abidin' is about. I'm thuroughly impressed.

I'll try not to take it too personally that I was left out of those name-checks....

By the gods you don't half whinge sometimes mate.

I think the "rev" bit was actually aimed at you (Hominid possibly not realising there's a few "rev's" here abouts)

;D

Too quick to leap on your soap box as usual. You passive aggressive types make me itch.

(now there that was picking on you, happy now).

Personally I think it's a throw back to not getting enough attention from your parents.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 07, 2011, 08:33:30 AM
I vote this thread "The Best Fucking Forum Conversation To Date". Rev, Andrea, Meekon - Y'all get awards for helping define and galvanize what all this abidin' is about. I'm thuroughly impressed.

I'll try not to take it too personally that I was left out of those name-checks....

By the gods you don't half whinge sometimes mate.

I think the "rev" bit was actually aimed at you (Hominid possibly not realising there's a few "rev's" here abouts)

;D

Too quick to leap on your soap box as usual. You passive aggressive types make me itch.

(now there that was picking on you, happy now).

Personally I think it's a throw back to not getting enough attention from your parents.

oops :P  I thought he meant Rev. AF.  Ha, missed the "," in there entirely!  My bad.  I'm afriad I just woke up, and I've not been sleeping well due to my night shifts (I'm trying to get the hell out of this job!), so apologies if I've misread anything, my perceptions are currently mired in my ailing health.  Although as the :P at the end of the sentance indicates, it was a joke on my part :)

Still, I think apart from that one badly-placed joke at the beginning there (sorry Hominid!), my points all still stand ;)

To be honest, I've been a little overly paranoid since that backlash against me from certain types on the Moving Dudeist Forwards post, and the eventual viscuious personal tirade I suffered from one ex-member.  Kind of makes a guy think he really is the villian ;D

As for you picking on me, Meekon... that's run of the mill stuff.  If you stopped picking on me, I'd think you didn't like me anymore!  (if you even did in the first place ;)).

And what was that, you're going to throw me back at my parents... that's harsh  :o (on them!)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on September 07, 2011, 09:47:49 AM
Rev. Ed C: yes, you were included. You react too quickly.
Meekon: Thanks for the backup
Andrea: you're the voice of reason. But - I still say that separating TBL from dudeism is a moot point, simply because of the outcome: who cares? We'll still be laughed at when asked about the roots of our faith.

I challenge everyone to cut their posts down to no more than 50 words.

I just woke up with a hangover, so go easy on me...

Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 07, 2011, 10:50:25 AM
Rev. Ed C: yes, you were included. You react too quickly.
...
I challenge everyone to cut their posts down to no more than 50 words.

I just woke up with a hangover, so go easy on me...

As I said, it was a joke, I wasn't taking offense.  The post wasn't meant to come of as a reaction, it was just a reply to the points made by several of you.  Bad comic timing on my part :P

And yeah, I know how you feel.  I've got what's akin to a hangover, and I wasn't even drinking!  I do shiftwork, only there's no pattern to it, so I'm up and down like one of those plastic things on a string... I guess that's throwing out my humour-ometer a little ;D

Once again, apologies if it looked like there was a wounded idiot on top of a soap box, it was just a half-asleep idiot on top of a pile of shit ;)

That was more than 50 words, I'm sure... but still fairly snappy for me! :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: meekon5 on September 07, 2011, 11:32:31 AM
See I think this whole paranoia thing about other groups not taking us seriously is just a matter of image.

I think we should do what our namesake "the church of the latter day saints" and have spotty teenagers standing on street corners with their "Church Elder" badges. Nice shinny suits.

;D

See that's what we lack, fast talking, nice dressing, glib sounding individuals. A bit like the Scientologists have.

;D

People that when interviewed by nice film crews wouldn't embarrass us by being so stoned off their boxes all they can do is shoot defenseless inanimate objects with big guns.

;D

The last time one of them (mormons that is) tried to engage me in debate he asked me "what are the three most important things in your life?"
Unfortunately for him he was picking on me during a particularly nasty hangover so he got "Drugs, Booze, and women!"
Funnily enough he decided not to continue the discussion.

;D

And Ed hope your humour omelette gets better soon.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 07, 2011, 12:47:30 PM
Rev. Ed C: yes, you were included. You react too quickly.
Meekon: Thanks for the backup
Andrea: you're the voice of reason. But - I still say that separating TBL from dudeism is a moot point, simply because of the outcome: who cares? We'll still be laughed at when asked about the roots of our faith.

I challenge everyone to cut their posts down to no more than 50 words.

I just woke up with a hangover, so go easy on me...



Well, Rev.Ed wasn't disappointed, he's usually the calmer guy around the residence, together with meekon probably.

Anyway I think no one is going to separate TBL from Dudeism, as Rev. Ed said we don't and we won't, and also what we want has "little" importance given that DL has the final word on everything about Dudeism. Our British compeer has just raised an important point about Dudeism and that is what is Dudeism beyond TBL. He's talking about the inner core of Dudeism, what was there before the movie took place, our thousands year of history so to speak. Also, as he correctly pointed out, what would you tell about Dudeism to someone, let's say from Africa, who has never seen the movie? Which is a very interesting and important question.

What some of us are debating is: let's imagine for a moment that TBL had never been made, what would Dudeism be? Or something like that. Some people join us through the movie, others through appreciating our philosophy that's why it's good to debate about Dudeism beyond TBL, to benefit all those who are not much into the movie but a lot into our philosophy. Rev. Ed just want to understand well what this philosophy is. Which is cool. And The Dude would have approved. Maybe just saying "that's interesting".

As for the laugh thing, well, better than being surrounded by uptight people right? I mean, the wise men and women will anyway get the message even if they laugh first, and if not, well, that's their problem.

As for the 50 words, well, it's pretty difficult but sometimes it happens, not often in philosophical reasoning, even if almost all of philosophy I know I got from Dudeism. Oh well.

There is no need to go easy on you, you haven't offended anyone I guess and dudely participated in the debate, this is an open discussion, not a private party between three or four of us. So thanks for your words dude. ;)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on September 07, 2011, 02:47:01 PM
I feel better after a nap... (Yawn...)

Thanks for the Reader's Digest version there Andrea - I get everything you're saying.  The "50 word" challenge was a tongue-in-cheek poke at everyone's verbosity. I should have used a winkie ( ;) ) to get that across, but I wanted my humour to be a bit more subtle than that. Once you get to know me, you dudes will see how I don't take too many things all that seriously. Though I do enjoy good debate, cause like - I have, you know, opinions on certain things.

One of those opinions (though not directly touched on in this thread) is that Dudeism shouldn't be spread by proselytizing - handing out fliers, you know - evangelizing in general. Or start off by telling people about where dudism came from in the first place. I truly think less people will take us seriously. Again, it's akin to sayin' you're a Jedi. I'm certainly not pointin' fingers at anyone here, but if we're true dudeists and livin' it, people will be drawn to our inner peace and will begin askin' questions.  You know, livin' by example. Then we tell'm the background of our philosophy/ethos/faith, what have you. If they laugh, it's like whatever...

I'm not sayin' that applies to this here forum though, so don't take it that way. I think you dudes get my gist...

 
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 07, 2011, 03:13:09 PM
One of those opinions (though not directly touched on in this thread) is that Dudeism shouldn't be spread by proselytizing - handing out fliers, you know - evangelizing in general. Or start off by telling people about where dudism came from in the first place. I truly think less people will take us seriously. Again, it's akin to sayin' you're a Jedi. I'm certainly not pointin' fingers at anyone here, but if we're true dudeists and livin' it, people will be drawn to our inner peace and will begin askin' questions.  You know, livin' by example. Then we tell'm the background of our philosophy/ethos/faith, what have you. If they laugh, it's like whatever...

I'm not sayin' that applies to this here forum though, so don't take it that way. I think you dudes get my gist...

I can only really speak for myself here, but I think we all know exactly what you mean, and we're definitely on the same track as you on this one :)

I for one never tell people unless they're interested, which, over this side of the pond (the dingy side, as I call it) most people don't.  Some people notice, and respect my way, some people just think "he's a bit odd" and move on.  But, even if no one notices, that's fine.  I mean, no one notices oxygen, but it works a treat :D

Evangelising a quite undudely.  And although I've told this story many times in the past month... I refused to profer flyers at the Dudeist "thing" in Edinburgh for that very reason.  I kept them in hand and available, and if someone asked for one they got one, and if someone asked a question they got an answer.  Talking is good, forcing flyers at people and shouting out the message is a bit of a preachy thing.  In fact, the guy who was evangelising got asked to quieten down as he was disturbing something else that was going on.  He just got carried away in the moment, was a good laugh, but... I prepfer the silent and contented look to make me more approachable :)

Not going around telling people is at the cornerstone of what Dudeism is about.  I mean, don't go out of your way not to tell people, obviously, but unnecessarily thrusting it in people's faces is not cool, indeed.

Abiding is going with the flow, not forcing the flow towards other people.  Someone people want to come and stand in our stream, others get pee'd off if you get their ankles wet.  I mean, just look at how the JWs get up people's noses  :-\
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 08, 2011, 12:54:38 AM
Well, maybe a flier is not for us, but a business paper-like thing with a summary of Dudeism, and it doesn't need to have references to TBL. could be pretty useful. To be used like Rev.Ed did at Edimburgh. Then as hominid said they'll find out our modern roots (TBL) and everything will be tied together again. As we've already said the spiritual-philosophical roots of Dudeism are ages old.

As for talking or not about Dudeism, well, it goes down to the single dude, imho. I mean, if we all don't talk about Dudeism it won't spread around and help others as it does with us. No one wants evangelization but if no one talks, or writes, about Dudeism than nothing happens and we could reach much less of those in need to take 'er easy. Writing about Dudeism isn't so far away from giving fliers.

I mean, one thing is going around giving fliers to everyone, another one is going around with a shirt, a patch or a sticker. Different ways to communicate but having the word around about Dudeism is useful, and needed. If someone feels comfortable obviously, not forcing anyone to do something here. And there is always the third road, like Rev.Ed did.

At the end everything goes down to do things you feel cool about in a dudely manner.

If someone feels good sitting on a road with something saying "Dudeist Priest on duty: have a question? I can get you an answer!" then, why not?  ;D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on September 08, 2011, 02:35:08 PM
I don't think I intended for us *not* to talk about it, just that actions speak louder than words.  And our words have to be backed up by our actions, that's all. What's more annoying than those Jehovah Witnesses and other cults that shove their religion down our throat, right?  And that religion which shall remain nameless, whose leader wears a funny cardboard hat, and whose priests are known pedophiles. Extreme examples of not walkin' the talk...
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 08, 2011, 08:33:39 PM
If someone feels good sitting on a road with something saying "Dudeist Priest on duty: have a question? I can get you an answer!" then, why not?  ;D

Heh, I like it, reminds me of Peanuts, Lucy's psychiatry booth.

How about a sign that says:  "The Duder is - IN" ?

:)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: meekon5 on September 09, 2011, 01:43:50 AM
If someone feels good sitting on a road with something saying "Dudeist Priest on duty: have a question? I can get you an answer!" then, why not?  ;D

Or wonder round with sandwich boards on with "The Dude is Nigh!" on then.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 09, 2011, 02:58:13 AM
Hominid, you're f***ng right.  8)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 09, 2011, 03:02:23 AM
Rev.Ed and meekon, far out, F****ng good ideas.

Given that 20 12 2012 is near why not sandwich boards with: THE FUCKING PLANE IS CRASHING INTO THE MOUNTAIN!!!!!!!!!!  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Caesar dude on September 09, 2011, 10:16:11 AM
that religion which shall remain nameless, whose leader wears a funny cardboard hat, and whose priests are known pedophiles. (http://that religion which shall remain nameless, whose leader wears a funny cardboard hat, and whose priests are known pedophiles.)

Spot on Hominid Dude.

peace
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on September 10, 2011, 02:21:35 AM
First off, I don't agree that Dudeism needs THE Dude.

Totally agree; Dudeism is not about any one person, neither is it a "cult of personality." I think we all know where that leads. It's about being dude-like and seeking to understand what it personally means to be a dude.

I say "personally means to be a dude" because it will never be the same for each dude. Dudeism is exploring what it means to be dude like within the parlance of a dude's personal understanding. To me, "tenets of Dudeism " are at best a starting point of the journey and should always be open to discussion.

Perhaps the one and only "tenet" of Dudeism should "To be a dude; pull up a rug and join the ongoing discussion and exploration as to what it means to be dude-like."

Quote
If Dudeism clings to The Dude as this figure to encompass all that is Dudeism it might as well have become a branch of Christianity or another banal, spiteful little cult like the Pastafarians. 

Totally agree. It must be independent of any central authority, personality or so-called "leader." It must stand on its on two feet apart from any single person or persons.

Quote
The Dude is one of us, like another other Great Dude (in history or otherwise), and we learn from each other.

Learning from each other should also be a basic principle of Dudeism . And, I like the term "principle" over tenet. As long as the principles are subject to dude-like peer review. Perhaps Dudeism should be approached like the pure sciences; hypothesis, experimentation, peer review, revision, theory, etc. The scientific process.

Maybe this could be called "scientific Dudeism ." "Scientific" because of the process used to develop and expand dude like philosophy and thinking.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on September 26, 2011, 01:00:31 AM
We need to wear the sandwhich board stating:  "The Dude Abides." Dudeism.com

~thinkingdude

...handing out flyers, with a megaphone, on a soapbox.  And of course, handing out white russians as well...  kinda half whispering: "Take it easy man."

 :D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: milnie on October 12, 2011, 05:18:41 PM
i fear people standing around corners in bathrobes spouting eastern philosopy to passers by would soon be wearing the white coats with zips at the back :)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on October 12, 2011, 05:39:21 PM
Padded cells...  Ooh, the memories...
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: M1k3 on January 26, 2012, 09:28:39 AM
I'm a noob on this forum and I know I necroing this thread but I really felt the need to comment.

I thing the way to look at this is to take a page from the Church of Foster (Stranger in a Strange Land for the unknowing) and look at TBL and Lebowski-ism as the party to get the marks in the door.  Some will stay, some will go.  Life goes on.  But, some of those that stay will look around, see beyond the party and begin to wonder about the deeper parts of Dudeism.  They will have the desire to look behind the curtain.

Their attitudes will change.  They will grow from playing being a Dudeist to actually being a Dudeist.  And thus will the world's slowest growing religion continue to build it's ranks.  As they say in Al-Anon, attraction not promotion.

Your friend,

 
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on January 26, 2012, 10:25:43 AM
Welcome to our little beach party there M1.  Grab an oat soda - the bar's over there...
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: AspiringDude on July 12, 2012, 03:41:09 AM
Hm, basically all that needs to be said has been said so why am i posting here...hm, dunno.

While I am against being preachy, I don't think anyone needs to preach Dudeism. The thing is...much like Buddhism, people come to it when they are ready for it. That is the point all the big religions (and, sadly, some brands of Buddhism, too) have forgotten. Forced faith is worthless. We don't have to "save" anyone. In some cases - and since I came onto Dudeism a few days ago I did notice that- people will notice that you have started to become more relaxed and easygoing and will ask you why. Then tell them about the core tenets of your philosophy. Maybe ask them to check out the site. If they're down with it, they will stay. If not, they won't.
But we need not worry about that. Life goes on.
And hey, so what if people ridicule us? Are we really worried about what those uptight reactionaries think?
The point here is that, if you want to identify as a Dudeist priest, maybe wear a T-shirt like mentioned on page 5 here somewhere, do that and have fun!
We can still have fun with our religion, also something many of the big ones have forgotten. If being a Dudeist is too exhausting...you're doing something wrong.
Another quote to ponder here is the one from Dogma, paraphrased " It's great if you have an idea...the problem starts when people build a belief system around it."
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Rev. RJ Dudemiester on July 12, 2012, 04:11:54 PM
This is a facinating thread, and it's always my nature to interject into conversations such as this with the following type inertejction-

the question in the title is what is abiding?
i'm a huge fan of looking deeply into the word itself to inform the discussion of what the 'ism' being defined around the word might be...
i find that contemplating the meanings of a word can be very informative.

a?bide   [uh-bahyd] 
verb (used without object)
1.to remain; continue; stay: Abide with me.
2.to have one's abode; dwell; reside: to abide in a small Scottish village.
3.to continue in a particular condition, attitude, relationship, etc.

verb (used with object)
4.to put up with; tolerate; stand: I can't abide dishonesty!
5.to endure, sustain, or withstand without yielding or submitting: to abide a vigorous onslaught.
6.to wait for; await: to abide the coming of the Lord.
7.to accept without opposition or question: to abide the verdict of the judges.
8.to pay the price or penalty of; suffer for.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: SeekWa on April 13, 2013, 08:01:40 PM
There is the age-old myth that when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And that the 'greatest' teachers are often frustratingly anonymous, somewhat impossible to find. With that in mind...

The sage abides in the condition of wu-wei (unattached action).
And carries out the wordless teaching.
Here, the myriad things are made, yet not separated.

Therefore the sage produces without possessing,
Acts without expectations
And accomplishes without abiding in her accomplishments.

It is precisely because she does not abide in them
That they never leave her.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: RighteousDude on April 13, 2013, 09:48:25 PM
There is the age-old myth that when the student is ready, the teacher appears.

Uh huh. That some kind of Eastern thing?  :D
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Hominid on April 13, 2013, 09:55:12 PM
The age of the guru is over. We are our own teachers. Been through all that shit, all I learned is that they're into their own shit, and they want you to bow to their shit. Fuck it dude, just go bowling. If you've got angst about your learning path, take the path of least resistance.  Just take it easy. Answers will come in good time. Big breath...
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on April 13, 2013, 10:58:37 PM
There is the age-old myth that when the student is ready, the teacher appears.

Or as I say; "when a dude is hungry, an In-And-Out-Burger will appear."

(http://partners.visitrenotahoe.com/assets/423/inandoutburger.jpg)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: DigitalBuddha on April 13, 2013, 10:59:10 PM
The age of the guru is over. We are our own teachers. Been through all that shit, all I learned is that they're into their own shit, and they want you to bow to their shit. Fuck it dude, just go bowling. If you've got angst about your learning path, take the path of least resistance.  Just take it easy. Answers will come in good time. Big breath...

 (http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7131/66421926facebooklike.jpg)
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: SeekWa on April 14, 2013, 04:11:16 AM
It is the path of some dudes to say Fuck It, be irreverent, relax, get pissed... and sometimes piss on their own rug. What. Ever. We all do that sometimes. Of course, some dudes groove with teachers, while other dudes ARE teachers, and some dudes kinda feel like they don't really need to be taught anything. I get that. So at the risk of coming across a bit militant about the quote I posted from the Tao, I simply see it saying something simple - that the sage abides, and that it is within abiding that we find the sage.

The anonymous sage is the one we can't find. This isn't necessarily referring to some old naked guy living in cave in Tibet. It seems to me that it is the dark, remote cave within ourselves, the wordless world that we can easily forget exists.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Shagbeard on December 25, 2013, 03:43:06 AM
Maybe Abideism is to Dudeism what Zen Buddhism is to Buddhism? The pure experience of Dudeness without the vehicles?


That is cool, that is cool
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: Brother D on January 25, 2016, 09:13:10 AM
Whoa, just read through this thread, interesting stuff, lotta far out views an opinions. Everyone mark it 8.

I am of the more literal mindset and think Abiding is essentially what one is prepared to morally tolerate or accept, we're talking about drawing a line in the sand, dude. Sure taking it easy with a limber mind helps with uptight thinking and makes abiding less stressful and I feel that they are all parts of the whole and abiding is the line between yin/yang, right/wrong etc, the middle way.

Walking that line is the Tao of the dude, lebowski or not.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: StAugustineDude on January 25, 2016, 07:07:13 PM
A Dude doesn't emulate the ideologies of the upright and uptight squares and fascists of the world. Those hung up on time and finance. He doesn't cling to the consumerist mantras that require the latest greatest gadgets and indoctrinated upwardly mobile mindset to find happiness. He just abides, goes with the flow and in doing so is one with the fabric of the universe.  He just fits right in there.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: BikerDude on January 26, 2016, 07:58:34 AM
I started reading through this thread.
Very exhausting
Fuck it.

For me abiding is back brain instead of front brain.
Less strategizing. More being.
Follow happiness. Not what we are told is happiness by society.
Title: Re: what is abiding?
Post by: digitalDude on February 03, 2016, 12:11:43 PM
abiding = doing something without the Vice President of the United States involved.