The Dudeism Forum

George Zimmermans attorney smokes the medias mistreatment and bias during the entire ordeal.



Also our so-called 'Department of Justice' was financially supporting the new black panther party and other anti-zimmerman protestors :(


Thank God he still recieved true America justice :)
Now let's just pray he is able to survive the upcoming onslaught against his life!

Sorry about this but I gotta throw a little different light on this topic. I have more than a little bit of experience with neighborhood watch as a retired police officer with 20+ years on the street. There are always one or two boneheads in the group that will come up and ask when they can begin armed patrol. The actual answer to this question, by law and NW regulations mind you, is never.

First off being in a neighborhood watch group does not grant nor does it even imply power to arrest or detain someone. The job of people in a N.W. group is to see something and call the police. The only difference would come in in the event that you call the police when your home is being invaded and are then called upon to act in defense of yourself or another.

The question that I had pretty early on was whether Zimmerman had a CCW and the fact is that he did. The part of the permit law that he apparently did not understand was that the CCW, just like neighborhood watch, does not bestow police powers on the individual. Zimmerman is not and never has been a sworn officer although there are theories that he was kind of a station groupie in that he yearned for the badge but he had no authority in this case to follow Martin or to try to detain him. In point of fact he was advised by the police dispatcher to back off and let the cops handle it.

The other thing I found helpful when making up my mind about this case was viewing the events from the point of view of the dead man. See, if I'm Trayvon Martin and I'm walking to my dad's house and some guy with a gun starts to follow me I'm gonna assume that he's not out collecting alms for the Church of the Latter Day Dude. I'm probably thinking that he's either going to rob me or kill me or maybe both. So first off I'm looking to evade and secondly I'm looking to defend when evasion attempts have proven fruitless. So maybe when I see that I'm not going to get away from this guy I hide in some bushes and jump him when he gets close enough and try to bash his brains into the sidewalk.

So in spite of the fact that the liberal media was trying to put the noose around George's neck and the DoJ was funding the Panthers the thing that I fall back on here is who committed the original criminal offense. When I think about what Martin was doing prior to and at the time of his death he was either walking to his old man's house with some candy and pop or he was acting in what I, as a former cop, would interpret as an act of self defense. For self defense to function as an explanation of one's actions the concern needs only to be based on the person feeling a "reasonable apprehension" of being attacked in some way. And as far as I know it's still legal to wear a hoodie.

The other side of this coin, however, is Zimmerman violating the terms of his CCW by going out on armed patrol when that is clearly not the intent of the permit. As I said before that is a personal protection thing, not a permit for wanna-be cops. And my guess is that if not for the gun that Zimmerman was carrying we would not be writing about this case. I don't think that Zimmie would have even set foot out his front door without that fucking piece.

All that being said the picture painted of Martin conjures up the image of a thug. Not knowing the young man I can't make even an educated guess. Am I all freaked out by his death? No. I only have so much compassion and I reserve it for people I know and love. The thing that does, however, concern me is the fact that I have family in Orlando, about 20 miles from Sanford. I would hate like fucking hell to think that they would be victimized because of the actions of a nobody like Zimmerman and his subsequent acquittal in this case. My concern is that the area for miles around Sanford is gonna light up like a fucking xmas tree just like South Central not so long ago. There's no fucking reason for it, of course, but my money rides on that very thing happening.

And George Zimmerman skated. Am I happy about it? Fuck no. Do I care if the Panthers or some other group of sick fucks chops this punk into fish chum? As I said earlier, I only have so much compassion.

I've been in law school, so I've never trusted the media portrayal of any court case.

A few things bothered me early on. Zimmerman should have backed off and Martin should have, too. From the evidence I've seen and the testimony, I feel that both let their macho attitudes get in the way.

What bothered me, too, was the judge allowed all of George's past but not Trayvon's. George had a history of not being that good at law enforcement but Trayvon had theft & drug charges. His Facebook and Twitter had many references to drugs, assault, and "reparations by all means." The photos you saw on TV were from years ago.

Neither of them were innocent. There's a difference between innocent and not guilty. Both let their attitudes get in the way and neither wanted to back down.

If I prayed, I'd pray for both of them and their families. This to me is another case of what my martial arts teachers taught me: never start a fight and never go farther than you must.

History shouldn't come into it. The trial was about the events of the night of 26th February 2012, and it shouldn't have been about anything else.


Not about race, not about 'standing your ground', not about Walter Mitty clones pretending to be cops.


Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed man. He should have called the cops rather than trying to do anything himself, he should have backed off instead of following Trayvon Martin, he should not have drawn his weapon and he should not have discharged his weapon.


Zimmerman did everything wrong on the night, and a man is dead as a result. And the state of Florida decides that he's innocent? Florida hasn't made the USA look so bad since it helped Dubya fix the election in 2000.

The difference between a democracy and a lynch mob is in a democracy minorities have certain rights such as right to trial and to speak their peace in court. Florida has now proven that the 87% Lilly white and overwhelmingly rural evangelical reactionary republican party members can run around with guns accosting anyone on the streets they don't like and it has become a battle of who is the fastest draw in the west. When minorities of any kind can no longer turn their backs on the majority for fear of being shot there is no way democracy can survive.

Quote from: roystonoboogie on July 14, 2013, 08:04:17 AM
History shouldn't come into it. The trial was about the events of the night of 26th February 2012...

Exactly. I agree. They shouldn't have brought up either one's.

Quote from: Masked Dude on July 14, 2013, 04:04:36 PM

Quote from: roystonoboogie on July 14, 2013, 08:04:17 AM
History shouldn't come into it. The trial was about the events of the night of 26th February 2012...

Exactly. I agree. They shouldn't have brought up either one's.

+1. Very well put.

Quote from: roystonoboogie on July 14, 2013, 08:04:17 AM
History shouldn't come into it. The trial was about the events of the night of 26th February 2012, and it shouldn't have been about anything else.

It's an interesting sentiment and there is something to it, but our legal system is replete with historical benchmarks. The distinction of 1st degree murder, for instance, depends on intention that precedes the actual crime. Furthermore, challenges are rooted in historical precedent and penalty phases use past behavior to assess present and future threat.

The more important measure is supposed to be relevance. Sometimes determining relevance depends on looking at the past. If a woman turns up dead after years of threats and domestic abuse from her suspect husband, history is bound to be relevant.

Quote from: purple_drank on July 14, 2013, 01:10:00 AM
George Zimmermans attorney smokes the medias mistreatment and bias during the entire ordeal.


Also our so-called 'Department of Justice' was financially supporting the new black panther party and other anti-zimmerman protestors :(

Thank God he still recieved true America justice :)
Now let's just pray he is able to survive the upcoming onslaught against his life!

Bias is a bitch. So is irony.

Quote from: Rev. Jell E. Rawlins on July 14, 2013, 06:58:21 PM

Quote from: roystonoboogie on July 14, 2013, 08:04:17 AM
History shouldn't come into it. The trial was about the events of the night of 26th February 2012, and it shouldn't have been about anything else.

It's an interesting sentiment and there is something to it, but our legal system is replete with historical benchmarks. The distinction of 1st degree murder, for instance, depends on intention that precedes the actual crime. Furthermore, challenges are rooted in historical precedent and penalties use past behavior to assess present and future threat.

The more important measure is supposed to be relevance. Sometimes determining relevance depends on looking at the past. If a woman turns up dead after years of threats and domestic abuse from her suspected husband, history is bound to be relevant.

I see what you're saying there. Perhaps I could have worded it better...


There was no history between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman before the night in question. That is why I don't think history was relevant in this case.


Had there been a history where they had encountered each other, there had been some confrontation, then history could have been relevant to the case.


But all that baloney about what Trayvon Martin posted on Facebook? It's Facebook! People lie on Facebook! How can that possibly be admissable as evidence? Unless what he said on Facebook had some direct relevance to the case, which it did not.


As to the distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder (which we don't have in the UK), I'm not too bothered about that: it's still a verdict of guilty of murder. What I am bothered about is the verdict of innocence.

I feel bad for their families. I can't say I feel bad for GZ or TM, since I don't know what happened. None of us do, despite so many who somehow magically know exactly what transpired.

Their families are suffering. One lost a son; it's unnatural for a parent to bury a child. The other will live in fear and be hated for someone else's actions.

Neither of those is fair.

Quote from: Rev. Jell E. Rawlins on July 14, 2013, 06:58:21 PM
The distinction of 1st degree murder, for instance, depends on intention that precedes the actual crime.

In some states (such as mine) also count it if a murder is committed during the commission of a felony, such as rape or certain assaults. I know, law can be confusing. I had a perfect GPA in it and it still gets me sometimes. :)

Quote from: roystonoboogie on July 14, 2013, 07:22:19 PM

I see what you're saying there. Perhaps I could have worded it better...

There was no history between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman before the night in question. That is why I don't think history was relevant in this case.

Had there been a history where they had encountered each other, there had been some confrontation, then history could have been relevant to the case.

But all that baloney about what Trayvon Martin posted on Facebook? It's Facebook! People lie on Facebook! How can that possibly be admissable as evidence? Unless what he said on Facebook had some direct relevance to the case, which it did not.

As to the distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder (which we don't have in the UK), I'm not too bothered about that: it's still a verdict of guilty of murder. What I am bothered about is the verdict of innocence.

I definitely get what you're saying and, while I do have my own biases about the case, I'm not really challenging many specifics on either "side" yet. Currently, we are a country with a nearly complete inability to have a reasonable discussion about race. I'm not really ready to jump into the deep end of the pool to discuss at length how polarization has led to oversimplification of the events & circumstances.

I'll be honest that my sentiments lie with Martin but I think this is a legitimately complex case and, ultimately, there is no verdict of innocence. I don't think there is any reasonable claim to Zimmerman being innocent. However, that doesn't mean there is legal justification for finding him guilty of the crime he's accused of. I don't feel like I have enough information to take a side on that yet. I kind of hope he get's his ass sued into the next millennium, though, and I think there's plenty of evidence to justify that.

Quote from: Masked Dude on July 14, 2013, 08:14:30 PM

Quote from: Rev. Jell E. Rawlins on July 14, 2013, 06:58:21 PM
The distinction of 1st degree murder, for instance, depends on intention that precedes the actual crime.

In some states (such as mine) also count it if a murder is committed during the commission of a felony, such as rape or certain assaults. I know, law can be confusing. I had a perfect GPA in it and it still gets me sometimes. :)

I didn't say it depended solely on "intention that precedes the actual crime." So, I object on the grounds that your argument is immaterial and your reference to an alleged "perfect GPA" is prejudicial. If that is overruled, I will argue that "intention" in my original statement was not limited to intent to murder and it's self-evident that intent to commit a felony is covered therein. :D Use "confusing" to your advantage.

I shall 4-color brief you! I shall Shepardize you! When you're down, I shall toss confusing Latin terms at you!

Haha! In media res! Habeas my corpus, will ya?!

Quote from: Masked Dude on July 14, 2013, 08:43:49 PM
I shall 4-color brief you! I shall Shepardize you! When you're down, I shall toss confusing Latin terms at you!

Haha! In media res! Habeas my corpus, will ya?!

Not without corpus delicti you ain't, biotch! I'll see your habeas corpus and raise you a corpus collosum. POW . . . didn't see that coming did you? That wasn't in your little law books was it? You don't know me without an MRI, son!  ;)

I have been bested!

Stercus fit, my friend. :)

Quote from: Masked Dude on July 14, 2013, 09:19:31 PM
I have been bested!

Stercus fit, my friend. :)

Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like . . . uh . . . your opinion man.

Spartacus' Foot to you as well, my friend.  :)

Karma dude, no need to apologize, everybody has the right to have and express their opinions man :)

He wasn't even doing his neighborhood watch patrol or whatever and he had his ccw so why shouldn't he be able to carry his legally owned weapon for his own protection?

He was just out going to the grocery store when he noticed a suspicious looking person walking around checking out the houses. Seeing as there had recently been a string of break-ins in his neighborhood he wanted to make sure the person wasn't there to rob other homes so he called the cops.

Trayvon then got closer to him and starred him down with "his hand in his waistband" and then took off running so Zimmerman got out of his truck to see where the person ran off to and get a more exact address for his current location to give to the police.

Like you said the cops told him "ok, we don't need you to do that" so he said "ok" and was heading back to his truck to wait for the police when Trayvon came out of nowhere popped him in the face and started beating his ass. He can be heard screaming for help in the 911 calls and even Trayvon's father said that it was not Trayvon screaming for help in the calls.

Trayvon didn't even know Zimmerman had a gun on him until he was on top beating him up and saw it, when he saw it he told Zimmerman that he was going to kill him then went for the gun. Had Zimmerman not been able to reach his weapon faster than Trayvon, he would have been the one shot dead that
night and nobody outside the local area would have ever heard about it.

Perhaps you're right about what was going through Trayvon's mind, but if he was thinking of "evading" then he should have easily made it home safely. Zimmerman lost him and was walking back to his vehicle to wait for the police when Trayvon chose to go back and assault him rather than returning to the safety of his home.

I truly hope your family is ok and doesn't get affected by the aftermath, especially being that close to it and all. From what I've read some minor things are already going on but I'm afraid it's only going to get much worse from here on out :(



Masked Dude, that bothered me too man. The only reason they suppressed that evidence was to make Trayvon look like an innocent little angel boy when he was really just another little wannabe gangster kid trying to play like he was a badass. Not that being a wannabe gangster means he deserves to die because it doesn't but it certainly shows that he was of a mentality that is accustomed to initiating violent confrontations. Unfortunately this one ended with tragic results :(



Roystone, I dont see how you think everything he did was wrong? He called the cops, he was trying to protect his neighborhood from burglars and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked by the Trayvon, and Zimmerman being a little weakling was getting his ass handed to him; he would have been shot had he not been able to get his gun himself first and shoot Trayvon; because Trayvon saw it while beating him and told him he was going to kill him then went for the gun, Zimmerman was just the one who got it first.

I did love the Walter Mitty reference & literally lol'ed at the 'Dubya' line, hahahaaha good ones :)



Wuliheron, idk about all of that man.
First off Zimmerman was Latino not "lilly white" and he's a Democrat not a Republican (although there have been a lot of jokes lately about him switching to the Republican party after all of this lol)

Secondly he wasn't just "running around with a gun accosting anyone he didn't like", he reported a suspicious person to the police and asked them to send officers to his location.

Yes, it was very stupid of him to get out of his truck and chase after Trayvon but he never caught up with him and was returning to his truck when Trayvon jumped out and attacked him instead of just going home.

Thirdly, as far as the "turn their backs on the majority" thing, statistically most black people are killed by other black people not white people so if anything, they should be afraid to turn their backs on other black folks.

But you are certainly entitled to your own opinion man :)



Rev Jell E, I read something about they've already sued the HOA for like a million bucks; but I'm sure that just like in the OJ case that they'll sue Zimmerman in a civil suit and win more money that way. Unfortunately money will never replace their son :(



Should the Trayvon have died, NO, but Zimmerman should not spend time in prison or be killed himself for defending his own life against somebody who was trying to kill him!

Do I know exactly what actually happened, nope, like everybody else I only know the testimony and evidence that was presented to the courts and from that evidence he's clearly not guilty of what he was being charged with.

I kinda think that despite Zimmerman believing that Trayvon could have been there to case some houses or something, that it was a case of some stupidity and machismo on both of their parts mixed with a wrong place/wrong time situation. But I do believe that justice was served in finding him not guilty, seeing as he didn't commit the  crime he was being tried for, even though the government and mass media were trying to railroad him.

And the government had absolutely NO business funding protesters on EITHER side of this.

Quote from: purple_drank on July 14, 2013, 10:52:59 PM

Wuliheron, idk about all of that man.
First off Zimmerman was Latino not "lilly white" and he's a Democrat not a Republican (although there have been a lot of jokes lately about him switching to the Republican party after all of this lol)

Secondly he wasn't just "running around with a gun accosting anyone he didn't like", he reported a suspicious person to the police and asked them to send officers to his location.

Yes, it was very stupid of him to get out of his truck and chase after Trayvon but he never caught up with him and was returning to his truck when Trayvon jumped out and attacked him instead of just going home.

Thirdly, as far as the "turn their backs on the majority" thing, statistically most black people are killed by other black people not white people so if anything, they should be afraid to turn their backs on other black folks.

But you are certainly entitled to your own opinion man :)

Ignorance is the foundation of knowledge as far as I am concerned and unless we are willing to laugh at ourselves with the innocence of a child our judgment is suspect. I wasn't in the court room and can't say a damned thing about what went on there or exactly what happened between the two. What I can say is Florida has now opened the doors for every person of color in the state to start walking around their own gated communities with an AK47 to prevent stupid idiots from killing them. If that is the America you want then places like Florida and Texas are working on creating it. Already black males in the US are targets of blatant and obvious discrimination in the judicial system and when you reduce justice to "I felt threatened" in court it is a travesty. In Texas a man was recently acquitted of shooting and killing a hooker who attempted to walk away with $150.oo because the law said he innocent by the letter of the law. In Florida a woman was just given 20 years for firing a warning shot in self-defense that hurt nobody. These rednecks need to join the 21st century and there is nothing whatsoever "dudely" about this kind of redneck crap.

Quote from: purple_drank on July 14, 2013, 10:52:59 PM
Do I know exactly what actually happened, nope, like everybody else I only know the testimony and evidence that was presented to the courts and from that evidence he's clearly not guilty of what he was being charged with.

But I do believe that justice was served in finding him not guilty, seeing as he didn't commit the  crime he was being tried for, even though the government and mass media were trying to railroad him.

And the government had absolutely NO business funding protesters on EITHER side of this.

You are right about everyone having a right to their opinion but it's a little disingenuous to rail about bias and not acknowledge your own. Though you make it sound like all of your information is coming from testimony and the evidence presented in court, it is clear that much of your information has come through the media as well. I'll just focus on one example.

I followed the links from your original post and guess what? I found media when I clicked on them. Are we really pretending that Judicial Watch is non-biased and PJ Media is not media? All right, fine, let's pretend. I'll focus only on the primary source documents. There is not one shred of evidence contained in the primary source documents requested by JW that supports the contention that The Community Relations Service did anything inconsistent with their 49-year-old stated mission.

There also is not one iota of evidence in the documents that says anything about "organizing" protesters nor are there budgetary numbers to support undertaking such an endeavor. Not a penny in the documents was spent to fund protesters as all the documents are reimbursements for transportation & lodging expenses for CRS employees. Nor is there any context showing these expenses differed from other potentially racially inflammatory situations CRS employees have worked in the past.

I've owned my bias in this thread and I'll do it again for this post . . . yes, I believe Judicial Watch is far from non-partisan. However, I set that aside and have tried to stick to the facts rather than rely on rebuttals against JW by other biased organizations.

I support and, in many ways, share your opinion but I have to call B.S. on the protestations of bias. If you want credibility as being non-biased, you need to own your bias and present balanced rather than one-sided evidence. Just calling the other side biased is not enough.

Wuliheron
I wasn't aware that Florida or Texas had passed any laws allowing, as you so delicately put it, "every person of color" to openly carry around ak47's lol.

Stop committing crimes and they won't be put in front of the judicial system, when I wanted to quit getting sent to court... I quit breaking the law! :)
I'm not trying to be an ass but a spade is a spade even if you call it by another name. So is it really discrimination or are they just the ones getting caught committing crimes most of the time. Though I'm not going to say that it doesn't exist, because we all know it still does, but it's not as widespread as they would like you to believe, most of this 'LEO's targeting blacks due to racism' is just crap made up and/or exaggerated to fuel the fires by people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. And it's completely disgraceful the way these kind of people promote the continuation of the ideology of racism instead of trying to put an end to it, especially seeing the huge influence they have over so many people. Imagine the good they could do if they really tried actually fix things instead of trying to divide people.

I would have to say that getting your ass kicked and having your head repeatedly bashed against the concrete, then being told he was going to be killed would constitute a credible feeling of his life being in immediate danger, but hey, maybe that's just me, guess I'm just crazy like that lol.

I haven't heard about the hooker one but I did hear about the warning shot and that's completely fucked up dude, about as ridiculous as that person who got sued by the robber who cut his leg on a knife while breaking in or whatever, or the lady who got fired because she was "too attractive". It's beyond mind bogglingly sad, the state that our country is in these days :(

Not quite sure how the redneck stuff has anything to do with any of this though, or where it even came from lol.


Rev Jell E
Of course my information came from the media, I can't just up and leave the state to go to somebody elses court case, hell I've had enough of court myself to never even want to step foot in another courtroom in my life :) So I just have to dig a little deeper to get through the mass medias bs lol.

But I based my opinion about whether or not he was guilty on the evidence that was placed before the court, even if my only access to be able to read it, listen to it, or watch some of it was on the website of some mass media giant.

That doesn't mean that I'm just jumping on some bandwagon based on whatever the news anchors are spewing out one way or the other. I actually listened to the audio/watched the video of the phone calls, interviews, and witness testimonies to come to my conclusion, which is the same conclusion a jury of his peers came to when they found him not guilty.

I guess I could have worded it better when I said "financially supporting", I'm not trying to say or did I see anything saying, that they directly 'gave them money', but they did spend money sending people down there to 'work with the community' and they seem, from what I have ascertained to have primarily been working with/for the anti-Zimmerman crowd. Had they equally worked with both sides or neither side at all it would have never been an issue but they seem to have chosen a side, which is wrong of our government to do no matter which side they choose to take up.

I didn't say regular people couldn't be biased, but the media and government should definitely not be biased in a situation like this. People are going to be biased, it's natural, but it's the job of the media and the government to remain unbiased (however because of this and many, many other incidents we know this to, unfortunately, not be true at all).



I know that it's all just Zimmerman's side but unfortunately we can't get Trayvon's side of the story and the evidence/witnesses seems to back up what he said took place that night.

It's certainly not everything but here's two of the calls used in the case, a copy of Zimmerman's written statement and an article from a more local news source in Orlando about the events and such of that night.

Zimmerman's initial call to the police:
http://webcitation.org/66Q4LC8gQ (http://webcitation.org/66Q4LC8gQ)

911 call where you can hear Zimmerman screaming for help then fire 1 round:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call3.ogg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call3.ogg)

Written statement from Zimmerman:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/06/21/written_statement_0226.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/06/21/written_statement_0226.pdf)

Orlando Sentinel news report:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager)


And here's the Fox news and Orlando Sentinel articles about the DOJ's support for anti-zimmerman protestors, so it's not coming from a source with no credibility or some other partisan or biased organization lol.

Fox news:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/10/did-justice-department-support-anti-zimmerman-protests-after-trayvon-shooting/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/10/did-justice-department-support-anti-zimmerman-protests-after-trayvon-shooting/)

Orlando Sentinel:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-15/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-justice-departm-20120415_1_federal-workers-racial-tensions-peacekeepers (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-15/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-justice-departm-20120415_1_federal-workers-racial-tensions-peacekeepers)

Believe it or not, one of my best friends was born in a barn, moved to another one, and lived in a tree house for years. Grandma was from the black foothills and thumped her Bible so hard it hurt your ears. My uncles would sit under the hundred year oak tree and drink beer talking smack about lynching niggas and setting dog's tails on fire. The simple fact any fool knows when confronted with it is that democracy depends on the rights of the minorities. The minute they lose rights and cultural taboos it is the white man and his little pieces of paper promising the moon again.

The case of Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville, Florida, is the one in which she received 20 years for the warning shots. That was last year, not recently as social media claims. Also, from what I read, she left, returned, and then fired shots. (Not sure about that, though. Just going on memory.) I agree 20 years was too harsh.

Not the same facts as this case.

One thing to remember; none of us were in the court during the trial and heard or saw the important details of the case as presented by both the prosecution and the defense, so any argument either way is at best in the dark. Very fine details of any case can prove a person innocent or guilty. The jury, on the other hand, was there and heard all of the points made by both sides. They found him innocent of the charges, and that should be respected.

The protesters seen in the news are at best expressing opinions in ignorance, and I don't personally take them seriously. The prosecution was a group of professionals who knew what they were doing, and the defense was also just as professional. The judge presiding over the case acted in a competent manner and I believe that the jury was not a group of idiots. They handed down a verdict they believed was correct. To second guess them without all of the facts before us would be folly and typical of Monday morning protesters who usually are operating in emotion, lack of facts and half truths, and little by way of proven facts.

That's just like my opinion, man.

Quote from: purple_drank on July 14, 2013, 10:52:59 PM
Roystone, I dont see how you think everything he did was wrong? He called the cops, he was trying to protect his neighborhood from burglars and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked by the Trayvon, and Zimmerman being a little weakling was getting his ass handed to him; he would have been shot had he not been able to get his gun himself first and shoot Trayvon; because Trayvon saw it while beating him and told him he was going to kill him then went for the gun, Zimmerman was just the one who got it first.

I did love the Walter Mitty reference & literally lol'ed at the 'Dubya' line, hahahaaha good ones :)

Okay yes, Zimmerman called the cops. He did that right, I'll grant you. But the cops told him to back off and not follow Martin. Martin would still be alive if he had. Maybe a house would have been broken into, probably not. But in my book a human life is worth more than someone stealing your rug.


Martin attacked Zimmerman with his fists. Zimmerman pulled a gun on him. Now as you are probably aware, handguns are illegal in the UK, so we don't often have situations like this. But pulling a gun on an unarmed man, albeit one who is punching you, strikes me as a disproportionate response. If Martin was armed, he could have dropped Zimmerman and said quite legitimately "Hey! He pulled a gun on me, I stood my ground, defended myself..." My inclination under those circumstances is to run. Not heroic, but possibly life-preserving.


Now maybe this is a US gun culture thing, but most ordinary civilians in the country even in the neighbourhood watch are not armed and don't confront potential bad guys. They call the cops and let them take care of it, and if they are confronted they run or lock themselves in the house. Our government occasionally encourages "Have-a-go-heroes", but the message from the cops is "Don't bother. Phone us. If you have-a-go, we'll probably end up arresting you too".


That's why I think that Zimmerman (apart from phoning the cops, I will admit) did almost everything wrong that night. And Treyvon Martin is still dead. And no-one is being held responsible for it..

Wuliheron
I've got no reason to disbelieve you dude :)


Masked Dude
I haven't had to opportunity to look into that yet, I just heard about it from a friend so I don't know the details to that at all but yeah, that does sound like way to long to me :(

Have you heard about this one? This lady was fired for being 'too attractive' and the Iowa supreme court actually upheld it. No death here thank God but still a sad situation :(
http://ktla.com/2013/07/12/firing-of-irresistable-dental-assistant-upheld-by-court/#HSutdxrKX4uvHw3f.01 (http://ktla.com/2013/07/12/firing-of-irresistable-dental-assistant-upheld-by-court/#HSutdxrKX4uvHw3f.01)


DB
I completely agree with the decision the jury made and I hope that the members of the jury will be safe from any of the threats and crap being made against them.


Roystone
Granted, like the rest of us, I don't know anthing more than the evidence presented; but from the evidence, Zimmerman, did chase him for a moment which was stupid, but he didn't catch him and was returning to his vehicle like the police wanted when he was attacked by Trayvon.

While beating him up Trayvon saw the gun (which was holstered, not drawn), told Zimmerman he was going to kill him and then reached for the gun but Zimmerman got it first. He shot him because he was going to be shot himself if he didn't react first, not because he was getting beat up; he just screamed like a little girl for help during that part lol.

I don't know anything about the laws there but the "have-a-go-heroes" and "don't bother" thing sounds about the same as around here. We're encouraged by the government to report criminal activity if we see/know about it, and in some places and cases even have the right to restrain them while waiting for the police to arrive, but our cops are also pretty much on the "just call us and let us handle it" thing.


Should this have happened at all, NO, but it did happen and the evidence has shown/proved to support Zimmerman's side of the story.  None of us know if that story is really the full truth but that's all we'll ever know about it and the jury found him not guilty based upon the evidence, which I agree with. If you don't agree, that's your right man, I'm just expressing my opinion and the evidence which led me to that conclusion :)

After having houses around my street (my next door neighbor was one of them) recently burglarized, I know that if I see a suspicious looking person in my neighborhood I'm going to want to see what they're doing. I don't own a gun, the only time I myself will ever have a gun is if the govt places one in my hand and tells me to protect my country, so I would be unarmed but I have faith that with my training I'll be perfectly safe. Unless they have a gun, the first thing I was taught was that nothing I have is worth my life so give the guy with the gun whatever they want lol :)

Here is like one dude's opinion about it...

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1015914_398237723616350_1534741159_o.jpg)

Look at the crowd, and ASK YOURSELF, WHY IS THE FOCUS ON THIS ONE BLACK LADY?

They want riots and white liberals are happy to help us get started. They do this all the time. Just like Occupy Wall Street, for example. This is well documented.

First, these liberals feed us lies to get us emotionally charged up! They have done that for the past year and 1/2 in this case. They told us lie, after lie, after lie.

Then master manipulating race baiting DEMOCRATS, like Sharpton, Jackson, unite with NAACP (The National Association for the Advancement of Liberal* Colored People) give their gullible BLACK followers the ok by pouring fuel on the emotional fire.

I watched in total disgust as WHITE LIBERALS in the media took to the sky and put their helicopter spotlight on BLACK folks Saturday night like we are a bunch of circus animals and expected us to act up.

We did not take the cue. THANK GOD!

So these WHITE GODLESS LIBERALS are here to embolden , inspire, and incite BLACK FOLK to take to the street in protest! All this to promote their agenda. I , for one am sick of it.

They do this, with the help of certian BLACK liberals that call themselves "reverends". These so called Black leaders know full well that angry BLACK FOLK, a segment of whom are common street thugs who are eager to commit violent acts, and will not behave peacefully...ESPECIALLY when they are totally pissed off.

If another life is destroyed because of this low life thug wannabe, Trayvon Martin, and his lying parents, (who won't come clean and tell us the truth about their sons drug use, burglary, and violent disposition) it will be because self hating WHITE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS in the media and in the streets inflamed the emotions of already angry, misinformed, and dare I say RACIST... BLACK FOLKS!!

At that point, they become more guilty. So I have one word for you White liberals who think you are doing us a favor. STOP!

IF this photo is not enough, watch CNN's Candy Crowley do her thang' on national TV! They NEED YOU PISSED OFF!

Michael Harris

Here is the link.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/14/CNN-Fans-the-Flames-on-Zimmerman-Verdict (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/14/CNN-Fans-the-Flames-on-Zimmerman-Verdict)

Good call, Digital Buddha.

As for the last post, not too fond of the his addition of "godless," but hey. Can't be arsed to care that much. :)

Funny, I didn't see any Black dudes staging riots in England OR America when Drummer Lee Rigby of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers was hacked to death while walking down the street by a black un-dude. It amazes me that black people are not, generally speaking, aware of the fact they are little more than pawns for a white run Democratic party who is manipulating them.

Come on, Black dudes, be bigger than this! Get in touch with your inner dude! Going Walter on society is not the answer. Violence is not the answer for any so-called "race," we are all one dudemanity!  IMHDO.

See - http://www.infowars.com/trayvon-martin-supporters-stage-second-night-of-fury/ (http://www.infowars.com/trayvon-martin-supporters-stage-second-night-of-fury/)

I like the way you think DB :)

Quote from: purple_drank on July 15, 2013, 08:50:06 PM
I like the way you think DB :)

Yeah, man, I wish people would get over the race thing and learn to be dude-like toward other people. It's a dangerous world out there sometimes, we need to be cool to each other. Fuck racism!

As I pointed out before; it's the little details of a case that can prove something either way...

- The reason Trayvon was out buying skittles and water melon tea, it makes "lean". A drug cocktail made with Robitussin. Can make you paranoid and aggressive.

- A slim jim (burglary tool) was found near the crime scene by a detective. Travvon was seen looking into cars and home windows before accosting Zimmerman.

- Toxicology tests showed Martin had traces of THC in his system.

Something to think about, mangs.

Having THC in your system is a crime now? Who knew? Careful dudes....

Quote from: Caesar dude on July 17, 2013, 09:21:25 PM
Having THC in your system is a crime now? Who knew? Careful dudes....

Not to me, but neither is having alcohol in your system; but both can affect your judgement. And in a court of law, anything can be evidence pro or con, whether legal or not.

 What would the Dude have done that night had he been Zimmerman or Martin? I can't see the Dude packing heat and I can't see him packing skittles. The whole situation sucks gutter balls

Well you can either believe that your criminal justice system is honest and above board. Or change it.

Was OJ guilty? Should Clinton have been impeached..etc...

In the Uk we have very few miscarriages of justice anymore. The British public are perhaps more savvy and know injustice when they see it. Recently we've had a string of historical high profile paedophiles coming to court. One of these a guy called Stuart Hall was given a paltry sentence. The Public didn't like this at all...so his sentence has now been reviewed and in fact further charges are being brought against him.

The UK is far more introspective in it's criminal law and is constantly updating laws to ensure the fairness of the whole system. It still sucks...don't get me wrong here but at least we are trying...

We don't have a Guantanamo for instance!

Quote from: Lost Coast Dude on July 17, 2013, 11:18:32 PM
What would the Dude have done that night had he been Zimmerman or Martin? I can't see the Dude packing heat and I can't see him packing skittles. The whole situation sucks gutter balls

Upon seeing Martin peeking in people's homes, he might have said "hey, this is a private residence, man!" Or maybe he would have said "fuck it, I'm going bowling."

And Lost Coast Dude, welcome to our quiet (most of the time) beach community. Grab an oat soda and abide, dude. Good to have you here!

Quote from: Caesar dude on July 17, 2013, 11:33:36 PM
Well you can either believe that your criminal justice system is honest and above board. Or change it.

Was OJ guilty? Should Clinton have been impeached..etc...

In the Uk we have very few miscarriages of justice anymore. The British public are perhaps more savvy and know injustice when they see it. Recently we've had a string of historical high profile paedophiles coming to court. One of these a guy called Stuart Hall was given a paltry sentence. The Public didn't like this at all...so his sentence has now been reviewed and in fact further charges are being brought against him.

The UK is far more introspective in it's criminal law and is constantly updating laws to ensure the fairness of the whole system. It still sucks...don't get me wrong here but at least we are trying...

We don't have a Guantanamo for instance!

Be glad you didn't have gitmo, it's a pain in the ass!

A pain in the ass of your own making....

Quote from: Caesar dude on July 18, 2013, 12:12:52 AM
A pain in the ass of your own making....

Probably true, but I don't think we want these undudes free and running around town...

(http://pull.khaamapress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Taliban-leader1.jpg)

(http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/osa3.jpg)

If we don't go Walter on them and pull a piece out and shoot them, we needed to lock them up.

Oh hell no Caesar Dude, our judicial system is not perfect by any means! :(
I wish we could change things for the better but the problem with that is that our country is so divided, whatever the dividing factor may be at the time, that nobody can agree on anything good enough for us to provide a fix for many situations.

I'm not trying to be rude or be a jerk but you're kind of making it sound like you think that British people in general are more intelligent than Americans and that we aren't even trying to fix our problems, like you're better than us or something. I hope I'm wrong but that's the impression I got from a couple of your statements there. Granted we've had a disagreement or two, but you don't appear to me like the kind of guy who would be that prejudicial, and perhaps I just misunderstood.
In my opinion the British are not smarter or better than Americans, and Americans are not smarter or better than the British, or anyone else for that matter. Though I will gladly tell people that we are the best country, that's merely a statement of pride in my country (despite it's flaws) and not meant as an insult towards anybody elses country.

In all fairness though there's bound to be more problems in a larger country that contains a more diverse cultural background than in a smaller one where most people are from the same heritage and belief systems, due simply to the fact that the more people of diversity there are, the more people there are to have vastly different views on each and every issue at hand.
Comparatively speaking Britain is like moving everybody from California (liberal state) into Texas (conservative state), same approx size, population and background diversity; yeah, that would be a lot easier to govern and enforce laws in man, but it's just not realistic in our situation. I hope that came out understandable and not offensive, I'm not always the best at explaining things :)

Maybe a simpler way to put it would be to ask; what's easier, cleaning just your bedroom or cleaning your whole house?


If you take for instance, the OJ incident you mentioned. It seems like a good comparison to Trayvon catastrophe, I'm not saying they were the same circumstances or anything but the end result was similar.

Let me explain...
OJ was a black man accused of killing two white people; he was found not guilty and many white people were very upset over this verdict.
Zimmerman was a (for this case in point we'll just call him white) man who killed a black man; he was found not guilty and many black people were very upset over this verdict.
In the end both cases had pretty much the same result, however,

After OJ, white people didn't start rioting and throwing a huge belligerent fit, white people just called it bullshit and went on with their daily lives.

After Trayvon, (largely due to the influence of race-baiting hate mongers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson) black people started rioting and assaulting/killing random innocent white people and calling it justice for Trayvon (a little boy in Kansas City, MO was walking home from school recently when a couple black boys attacked him, poured gas on him and set him on fire on his front porch, all in the name of 'justice for Trayvon'. There are many other recent examples but I only mention this one in particular because I live fairly close to KC so this one kinda hits closer to home for me).

See, HUGE divide, and that's only an example of the race issues in our country, there are many other dividing factors that are all just as stupid and pathetic as the next one or the one before it. But that diversity (when you get past the petty shit that so many people try to exploit for their own personal gain) symbolizes what America is supposed to stand for (Everybody is welcome [so long as they do it legally and aren't terrorists], Everybody has the same rights and Everybody has the same opportunities as Everybody else; and the freedoms that many countries around the world are destroying themselves to achieve/stop).

And Gitmo... We hate Gitmo just as much as you.
Although DB is right about it being a good place to keep terrorists (these people have proven themselves to be lower than lowlife scum (with the kinds of acts they condone, promote and commit I'm almost inclined to not even consider them human), I'm not saying we should torture them... but I'm not, not saying it either lol.

Quoteyou're kind of making it sound like you think that British people in general are more intelligent than Americans and that we aren't even trying to fix our problems, like you're better than us or something.

Fuck me dude, we have more than our share of assholes over here! I have never and will never say that Brits are more intelligent than Americans...what an undudely statement! Even as a generalisation it would be wrong! How could you think such a thing? I'm an asshole sometimes...but not that much of an ass! You have more assholes...but then again you have more Mcdonalds!??

That's not what I meant at all!

My comment about the Travyon/Zimmerman case is purely based on the rhetoric and comments that I see on the internet. This case has not been reported AT ALL in the UK. Not one newspaper inch has been given to it. That's how important it is in British psyche: Worse than that though is the fact that you are now telling me there are deaths and violence being attributed to the case! This is also not being reported!

My point was: If you don't like your legal system then change it, don't moan about it on the internet! In Uk if the general population have a gripe about a verdict...then damned sure it will be looked into again. Ie. Stuart Hall (look it up, I had to with Zimmerman!)

GITMO? Well you collectively elected someone who stated that he would get rid of Guantanamo. He didn't and in fact has done the opposite! That is not right! Not Right at all! If that had happened in Britain the guy would be out on his ear guaranteed! This would have been an emotive issue in Britain and a vote winner. If he'd promised that and then renegade he would be out...it's not school fees or road tax...this is inhumanity!

QuoteAlthough DB is right about it being a good place to keep terrorists (these people have proven themselves to be lower than lowlife scum (with the kinds of acts they condone, promote and commit I'm almost inclined to not even consider them human), I'm not saying we should torture them... but I'm not, not saying it either lol.

Really? Proven huh? Beyond all reasonable doubt? Honestly?

Ok here's a guy, He's a comedian in the UK. he's more well known for being outrageous and is certainly not what one would call a hippy! have a read!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2013/jul/19/frankie-boyle-joins-guantanamo-hunger-strike (http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2013/jul/19/frankie-boyle-joins-guantanamo-hunger-strike)

Peace dude.

Caesar Dude,
I hope I can explain this without confusing or insulting you any further because I'm truly not trying to be a jerk or anything like that.

These two statements here was what I was referring to about the "more intelligent" and "better than" statements:

Quote from: Caesar dude on July 17, 2013, 11:33:36 PM
The British public are perhaps more savvy and know injustice when they see it.

The UK is far more introspective in it's criminal law and is constantly updating laws to ensure the fairness of the whole system.

Like I said, I probably just misunderstood the message you were trying to relay and that's also why I said that I may have misunderstood what you meant and that I didn't really think of you as being that prejudicial towards people. Apparently I did misunderstand you and I apologize if it came out wrong but I also hope you can take a look at those two sentences and kind of try and see how I might have made that mistake.

Be glad you don't have to be inundated with all the Trayvon/Zimmerman bs, it's the only thing on our news channels anymore (not literally the ONLY thing but I'm sure you know what I mean).
I wish that we hadn't heard about the case either; the news about it should have never left the local area in which it happened, but unfortunately other people saw it as a way to inspire more hate, further divide the people of our country and distract the general public from the atrocities that our president is committing.

We really are trying to change things for the better but our current President has somehow convinced many people here that he's trying to fix things when in reality he's doing everything in his power to destroy our country. He not only stops us from challenging the decisions he makes but lies to us about them or claims their for our own safety. When people stand up to him he just tells the brainwashed masses that the people standing up to his tyranny are liars :(

Trust me dude, I DID NOT vote for that man, I voted AGAINST him and I am trying to help inform the people of his lies/crimes as well as signing petitions and attending protests to get rid of him and his corrupt administration. I'm only one man but at least I'm trying which is a lot more than I can say about some people I know. They complain about him sure but they won't even make an attempt to fix the situation :(

And about Gitmo, like you said, he bold faced lied about it (and it's not his only lie by any means!!!) Gitmo isn't one of the things I listed directly in the post about "What has happened to the America I love" but was certainly one of the things I was referring to. It's imprisonment and mistreatment of innocent people is horrible and it's only a sample of the things that this man is doing to ruin our country.

When I mentioned DB being correct about keeping terrorists in there I was talking about the people who have proven themselves to be inhuman and thrive on doing harm to others, not the innocent people who have been imprisoned and abused there.
I'm referring to the people who hijacked planes and flew them into the twin towers on 9/11, set off  bombs at the Boston marathon, are constantly killing or seriously injuring people just because they don't follow the same religion, the people who killed Drummer Lee Rigby for no reason at all, the ones who are raping women and then throwing them in jail over it for "having sex outside of marriage", and plenty more detestable and inhumane things these people are doing across the world.
People who do these sorts of things are 'terrorists' and they'll keep doing these things unless they're stopped and locked away from innocent people that they would do harm to. They're doing this crap all over the world and they need to be stopped, if not Gitmo then someplace, but I think we can all agree that these terrorists do not need to be roaming the earth free to hurt and kill people.

Thanks for the link :) there's a rapper/actor here in the US (his name is Mos Def) who is undergoing the force feeding thing as a form of protest against treatment at Gitmo so I'm glad to see that other people across the world are willing to stand up to this stuff as well. Hopefully they can get through to our govt but it's just one more thing I fear Obama will just cover up or distract us from so he can continue to do whatever he pleases. I am a little confused about the "not what one would call a hippy!", I don't know if hippy means the same thing in England as it does in America.

... aaaand back to Islam and terrorism.  You Dudes have got some real stamina for this topic, I'll give you that.

:)

Peace, Dudes. Don't forget to take 'er easy.

My bad MindAbiding dude

Yeah, I can see now that all the examples I listed were all things committed by Muslim terrorists; I wasn't really trying to single them out specifically like that, they're just the terrorist activities that I was able to think of off the top of my head ya know.
They just happen to be in the news and stuff more right now so they're closer to the front of my mind so to speak.

I doesn't matter to me if they're Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Atheist or whatever, if they're committing these sorts of crimes then they need to be locked up away from the general public, otherwise more innocent people would become their victims.

Nah that's not what this was about MindAbiding  dude! Sorry for going there again.

Purple_Drank (what is that handle all about btw?)

I can see why you think I was being an asshole..not my intention. Just bad wording on my part or maybe a misunderstanding on your part. Savvy doesn't mean intelligent it's an English word meaning streetwise...or seeing through the crap! I never said anything about "better than" Anyhoo that's not what I meant at all.

I'm not too sure about locking people up just because they might turn out to be bad....that stinks of what the Nazis did and is not right ...not right at all.

Peace dude sorry for any misunderstandings.

Funny thing about it, a black women on a jury of 6 women, found him innocent and acquitted Zimmerman. Nuff said.

That is something that is very different to the UK system. Your Jury selection: Ours is simply done by random selection through the post. You get called and you sit! I believe in the States you get called and then selected after being questioned by both sets of lawyers.

I'm only going by Grisham novels so I may be talking out of my arse here! :)

Right on Caesar Dude

My name is just from an old song from back when I was in high school (by Lil Flip, it's kind of a parody/skit of Prince - Purple Rain) and it's just become the username I use for my personal accounts (personal email, forums and things like that), I just use my name for my professional type account (work email, college stuff and things like that).
I really don't even listen to rap anymore but I've just been using that username so long that it's stuck :)

I don't mean to lock up people who "might turn out to be bad", I mean the people who've already proven that they're going to do these horrible things (or if they're caught before they get the chance but the evidence proves that they fully intended to commit a terrorist act [like if they're on their way to commit the crime or the police get a tip and catch them at their hideout with all the equipment or whatever to commit the crimes])

Yeah, our jury system is a group of people randomly selected and sent a letter to appear for jury duty then they're questioned by the prosecution and defenses attorneys to make sure that they're non-biased, although I'm sure some biased people get through their questioning and make it to the jury sometimes.

Quote from: Caesar dude on July 21, 2013, 09:43:23 PM
That is something that is very different to the UK system. Your Jury selection: Ours is simply done by random selection through the post. You get called and you sit! I believe in the States you get called and then selected after being questioned by both sets of lawyers.

I'm only going by Grisham novels so I may be talking out of my arse here! :)

That's basically the way it works. Both sides must agree on a juror in order for them to be selected. Of course, each side tries to pick jurors they think may be helpful to their side. For the smaller cases, it usually works out pretty well. But for the bigger ones, like the Zimmerman trial, it gets much more complicated. Even after a jury is selected, the judge presiding over the trial can give them specific instructions, like not being able to consider certain types of evidence, for example. The big law firms that try these cases will sometimes hire mock jurors and have a mock trial, just to see which type of people will vote a certain way, and use that in the selection process of the real trial.

Quote from: Caesar dude on July 21, 2013, 09:43:23 PM
That is something that is very different to the UK system. Your Jury selection: Ours is simply done by random selection through the post. You get called and you sit! I believe in the States you get called and then selected after being questioned by both sets of lawyers.

I'm only going by Grisham novels so I may be talking out of my arse here! :)

You are correct, Sir.

Despite having a price on his head and him and his family receiving numerous death threats this man came out of hiding to help rescue a family caught in a burning suv :)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/storynew?id=19735432 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/storynew?id=19735432)
and
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/22/19618495-zimmerman-emerges-to-help-family-escape-overturned-car-in-sanford-fla?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/22/19618495-zimmerman-emerges-to-help-family-escape-overturned-car-in-sanford-fla?lite)

Why.... that dirty son of a bitch!

:))

Yeah, that was pretty awesome. Took guts! (http://dudeism.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)

They had a guy on the news saying he thought it was just a publicity stunt.  ::)

Quote from: A Dude on July 22, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
They had a guy on the news saying he thought it was just a publicity stunt.  ::)

Well, I don't think Zimmerman needs anymore publicity. Maybe he needs to abide, but more publicity, nah!

Yeah, that poor man will never have a moments peace for the rest of his life :(

Quote from: purple_drank on July 23, 2013, 12:17:22 AM
Yeah, that poor man will never have a moments peace for the rest of his life :(

Unless he becomes a freaking Irish Monk!