Can the Pope be a Dude?

[Rev Paddy Cakes]

Here's a new one for you. There has been a lot of press about Pope Francis being more moderate than previous fellers in the Vatican, especially with such contentious issues as the Catholic take on homosexuality and abortion. Not to mention he has been known to participate in rather banal, everyday activities other demigod-like Popes would never do, that endears him to more people. Or at least, that's how he is being marketed.
The question is, can a Pope be a Dude, or at least Dudely? Or would  he have to pull down the Vatican and put up a bowling alley / In N Out Burger instead? Because, that's what I'm thinking. But baby steps, right?
Here is some background reading:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/pope-francis-gay_n_3954776.html?ir=Canada

[DigitalBuddha]

Here's a new one for you. There has been a lot of press about Pope Francis being more moderate than previous fellers in the Vatican, especially with such contentious issues as the Catholic take on homosexuality and abortion. Not to mention he has been known to participate in rather banal, everyday activities other demigod-like Popes would never do, that endears him to more people. Or at least, that's how he is being marketed.
The question is, can a Pope be a Dude, or at least Dudely? Or would  he have to pull down the Vatican and put up a bowling alley / In N Out Burger instead? Because, that's what I'm thinking. But baby steps, right?
Here is some background reading:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/pope-francis-gay_n_3954776.html?ir=Canada

Well, dude, we just don't know. Does the Pope shit in the woods? Could it be that the Dude had some insight into his Popeness, or El Popearino (if you're not into the brevity thing)? I would believe the Pope could be a dude if he dealt with the pederasts in the Catholic Church, and maybe appeared once in a while in a bathrobe instead of the Pope uniform. Maybe he could preach from his bathtub once in a while burning a J and dig some zesty coitus once in a while with his special lady Pope. And the big question; does the Pope roll a few?

[milnie]

I don't think any head of an organisation that suppresses the truth, bans birth control and a whole lot of other shit can be considered dudely, regardless of the mans own merits.

[Masked Dude]

I'm kind of with milnie on this one. I'm a recovering Catholic (French & Irish Catholic, no less), so like many I have an opinion on this. First of all, I'm not surprised a Jesuit is being controversial. They like to push the envelope of the church, and I say that in a good way. Not only is a Jesuit holding high office (odd for a Jesuit), he's the first New World Pope and now he's saying the Church is obsessed with certain issues. All that makes sense based on his history, but is it that forward thinking? IMDO, he couldn't outright say they need to stop pressing the issue.

I don't know if he's personally for gay marriage or abortion or birth control. While he did say he had no problem with gay priests, he did say they could not express that love. As a young Catholic boy, I got in trouble for asking why Catholic priests were not allowed to get married yet were expected to be consulted on marriage problems and why other Christian denominations let them marry. (Mind you, some Eastern Rite priests can marry.)

So for me, I agree with the Pope that the Church is obsessed with those issues. But I don't agree with him on why the Church says they're wrong. And we still don't know his opinions on those issues.

[Bullett00th]

Why not? I haven't dug around too much but from what I've seen this new pope is quite dudely. Could be a PR stunt, but who cares as long as a kind humble dudely person sets an example for so many?

Well, dude, we just don't know. Does the Pope shit in the woods? Could it be that the Dude had some insight into his Popeness, or El Popearino (if you're not into the brevity thing)? I would believe the Pope could be a dude if he dealt with the pederasts in the Catholic Church, and maybe appeared once in a while in a bathrobe instead of the Pope uniform. Maybe he could preach from his bathtub once in a while burning a J and dig some zesty coitus once in a while with his special lady Pope. And the big question; does the Pope roll a few?

This is just too good XD
You got me at the Pope shitting in the woods. You brightened up my tedious workday, good sir! Hats off for a dudely sense of humor

[LotsaBadKarma]

Over the last few years I've developed the attitude/opinion that most, if not all, organized religions were developed as a control for the masses. It just strikes me that there's not much true philosophy involved so much as there is a set of sometimes arbitrary rules designed to keep most of the people under control most of the time, mostly through the use of guilt and shame. So I've rejected religion kind of generally across the board, at least the Judeo/Christian varieties.

I remember as a kid going to an Evangelical church and seeing people there who were some of the most unscrupulous fucks in the neighborhood. So on Sunday they were repentant for the dirty shit they did during the week and Monday morning they started all over again. That's what I meant by a lack of a philosophy. There were no long term improvements, just do whatever shit you like on Monday through Friday, go to church on Sunday and say you're sorry, and the next day go right back to it.

Kinda like somebody who rolls in shit all week, takes a shower on Sunday, and then rolls in shit all week again. So nothing ever really changes and I'm thinking that that's what organized religion maybe ought to address: The idea of change for the better.

[BikerDude]

A "more moderate pope" is for my money like the way that Walter once "dabbled in pacifism".
He could be a dude but I don't think he's very dudely.

[Rev Paddy Cakes]

Just another article to consider about shitting in the woods ... or something like that.

http://www.alternet.org/pope-francis-ideological-christians-are-serious-illness?akid=11063.1147163.7YdIUX&rd=1&src=newsletter912859&t=19

[DudePatrick]

For your actual question, can the Pope be a dude...I say of course!  The question is never CAN he...its WILL he.

I think this Pope is the most dudely in a long, long, long time, but in a way, I think he's almost prohibited from being really dudeish by the organization.  Like it or not, dogmatically, he is Jesus on earth...the direct result of apostolic succession from Peter.

We can probably all agree that the stories about Jesus make him pretty dudely, and if the Pope really WAS like the stories, I think he'd be a total dude.

But he's the Pope, and he's also the King of the Vatican, and the buck stops with him.  That buck is (or can be) super un-dudely indeed.

TL;DR - I think the current Pope is about as close as he could be, assuming he is how he is marketed.

[BikerDude]

For your actual question, can the Pope be a dude...I say of course!  The question is never CAN he...its WILL he.

I think this Pope is the most dudely in a long, long, long time, but in a way, I think he's almost prohibited from being really dudeish by the organization.  Like it or not, dogmatically, he is Jesus on earth...the direct result of apostolic succession from Peter.

We can probably all agree that the stories about Jesus make him pretty dudely, and if the Pope really WAS like the stories, I think he'd be a total dude.

But he's the Pope, and he's also the King of the Vatican, and the buck stops with him.  That buck is (or can be) super un-dudely indeed.

TL;DR - I think the current Pope is about as close as he could be, assuming he is how he is marketed.

Isn't that sort of like saying that "like it or not Heinrich Himmler had a job to do"?

[DudePatrick]

I'm not sure how you mean that.

Sure, Himmler had a job to do, and like the Pope, he could have left and didn't.  The difference is this Pope (so far as we know) is dealing with the repercussions of other people not being dudes but by all appearances trying to be a little more dude.  Himmler wasn't a dude and didn't try to make his voluntary organization any better.

I'm sorry if that doesn't answer your point.  I'm not sure I get what you're saying so I am generically comparing them.

[BikerDude]

I'm not sure how you mean that.

Sure, Himmler had a job to do, and like the Pope, he could have left and didn't.  The difference is this Pope (so far as we know) is dealing with the repercussions of other people not being dudes but by all appearances trying to be a little more dude.  Himmler wasn't a dude and didn't try to make his voluntary organization any better.

I'm sorry if that doesn't answer your point.  I'm not sure I get what you're saying so I am generically comparing them.

I guess what you are saying is that actually the Pope is a swell guy but it's just all those darn Christians out there that crimp his style?
Sounds a bit far fetched to me. He is the leader of an organization so incomprehensibly undude that it just recently got around to apologizing for murdering Galileo and routinely and systematically shelters child rapists. Sounds kind of far fetched that a Dudely person would be chosen to be pope. I can only assume that he is on board with the agenda even if he is willing to finally be hip enough to actually allow condoms. Seems kind too little too late.

[DudePatrick]

I suppose the day you can look me in the eye and tell me every CEO in the world is responsible for every shitty thing is company (or country) and all its employees/citizens have ever done, you may have a point.

You must be a blast to have at parties.

It is a logical fallacy to assume everyone who supports the organization supports every misdeed.  You may think you and the church are frenemies, but you're just coming off as a bitter and petty.

Primarily among a Dude's responsibilities is to be true to thine own self.  If he thinks God talks to him and tells him to start making up for some of the shitty things his church has done, and he actually does it and is a nice guy along the way, he is a dude.  What you think is irrelevant.  That is an observation, not an opinion.  No dude here would ever argue a president couldn't be a dude because some assholes in hung people and burned crosses.  Hell, some of the dudliest men in this country's history owned other people.

Whether there is a god or gods and what you think about them is irrelevant to their dudism or that of their supporters.  That is determined per person.  Anything else is a generalization.

It is not irrelevant to your dudism.  By lumping everyone in your broad characterization, you are most un-dude and spitting in the face of every religious person who lives a good life because you have a hard-on for a particular church.

Good day, sir.

[BikerDude]

I suppose the day you can look me in the eye and tell me every CEO in the world is responsible for every shitty thing is company (or country) and all its employees/citizens have ever done, you may have a point.

You must be a blast to have at parties.

It is a logical fallacy to assume everyone who supports the organization supports every misdeed.  You may think you and the church are frenemies, but you're just coming off as a bitter and petty.

Primarily among a Dude's responsibilities is to be true to thine own self.  If he thinks God talks to him and tells him to start making up for some of the shitty things his church has done, and he actually does it and is a nice guy along the way, he is a dude.  What you think is irrelevant.  That is an observation, not an opinion.  No dude here would ever argue a president couldn't be a dude because some assholes in hung people and burned crosses.  Hell, some of the dudliest men in this country's history owned other people.

Whether there is a god or gods and what you think about them is irrelevant to their dudism or that of their supporters.  That is determined per person.  Anything else is a generalization.

It is not irrelevant to your dudism.  By lumping everyone in your broad characterization, you are most un-dude and spitting in the face of every religious person who lives a good life because you have a hard-on for a particular church.

Good day, sir.

It's a fair bet to assume that the views of those who are elected to the post by people who have devoted a lifetime of service to the church and have risen through the ranks are representative of the view of the organization. I can't see how it could ever possibly be otherwise.
In fact I'd have to say it is much much more likely in the church than any corporation where people are hired from elsewhere.

Coming back to the original question .... Do you actually think that the dude could function as a priest, bishop, cardinal, pope etc for a lifetime and garner sufficient support to be elected as the leader of the church?
I find that to be an absolutely absurd idea. If we differ I guess we'll have to leave it alone cause I just can't imagine any way of marrying the eternal uptightness and institutionalized divisiveness of he catholic church and anything at all "easy going". And having a new pope who in this day and age allows that maybe people won't burn in hell for all eternity because they use a condom or are gay or have premarital sex doesn't even come close.

The point is that there are aspects of Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc that are simply not optional. It is central to Christianity that Jesus was the son of god, died for our sins and will be returning to punish non Christians. That is the antithesis of Abiding. None of that is optional if one is to call themselves a Christian. Just digging the dudelyness of the Jesus is closer to Islam (where it is a requirement to believe that Jesus was a prophet) than any Christian Faith.
Religion is not an empty vessel or a Chinese menu where you just pick the parts you  like. Especially for the Holy See. Catholicism and every organized religion is at it's very core non dude and does not even allow it's practitioners to Abide. Sure people can maintain an armchair association to it but the reality is that there are certain beliefs that merely by not accepting render a person Non Christian and I promise you those beliefs are central enough that any person who is to be Pope will always stand by them. The Pope could be a Dude if he stopped being a Catholic. As long as he holds the central belief that non christians will be and deserve to be punished in my opinion it is self evident that he can not possibly be a dude. And abandoning then he can not possibly be pope.

I do wish that the church was in actual fact held to the same standard as a corporation. There simply is no corporation that could have as part of it's official documents half of the horrible things that are a part of the bible. Yet somehow when it comes to the church it doesn't count.
People will say "well nobody actually believes that you should kill your neighbor  for not observing the sabbath, and nobody actually believes in practicing slavery". (even though it was the exact defense of the slave trade for hundreds of years in fact)
Could you imaging a fortune 500 company with a passage in it's employee handbook pertaining to owning slaves and then they just say "well that's just old. We haven't gotten around to changing it". 
It is only religion that could claim those who oppose this sort of barbarity are "bitter".



Far as parties go, I know enough people who feel the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7IHU28aR2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfix_e1QnbM