Hate is good

[Hominid]

You haven't really lived till someone hates you with all their being.  This is a Facebook quote from yesterday:

"well Jim ... get to hell off facebook with your demented sick mind or I will have you knocked off of here forever ..turn yourself into a nut house and do the world a favour..you sick Fuck"

In another quote, he asked me to commit suicide.  High fives all around, wouldn't you say? 

(Sorry, some background: I insulted his Christian sensibilities by stating his god was a murderous, hate-mongering, misogynistic, ego-centric baby-killing asshole. I guess I deserved it. ;-)  )

[herpgumbo]

Well if you read the bible, you are correct in stating that. Just saying. The god in the bible is very undudely. Infact he is a bit of a buzzkill.

[Caesar dude]

I insulted his Christian sensibilities by stating his god was a murderous, hate-mongering, misogynistic, ego-centric baby-killing asshole. I guess I deserved it. ;-)

What did you do wrong exactly?

I fail to understand his problem! 

Peace dude.

[Rev. Gary (revgms)]

Nothing hurts more than the truth, have pity on this poor broken man.

[DigitalBuddha]

You haven't really lived till someone hates you with all their being.  This is a Facebook quote from yesterday:

"well Jim ... get to hell off facebook with your demented sick mind or I will have you knocked off of here forever ..turn yourself into a nut house and do the world a favour..you sick Fuck"

In another quote, he asked me to commit suicide.  High fives all around, wouldn't you say? 

(Sorry, some background: I insulted his Christian sensibilities by stating his god was a murderous, hate-mongering, misogynistic, ego-centric baby-killing asshole. I guess I deserved it. ;-)  )

Vagina? 

[DigitalBuddha]

I insulted his Christian sensibilities by stating his god was a murderous, hate-mongering, misogynistic, ego-centric baby-killing asshole. I guess I deserved it. ;-)

What did you do wrong exactly?

I fail to understand his problem! 

Peace dude.

Good to see you, C dude, hope all is well and dude-like.

[Boston Rockbury]

I upset a lot of people on a FB psychobabble-guru page a couple of weeks ago. I compared the approach to certain techniques in tantric sex (which I detailed). The guru's name is Greg so I discussed the 'Gregist trinity' (the Greg, the inner greg and the universal greg energy). At some point I used the expression 'fucked in the ass'. It was all pretty harmless stuff and just some gently challenging questions but I got banned from the site. They changed the whole posting policy, then brought in first Mrs Greg and finally The Greg himself to 'straighten things out'. I wasn't even trying to upset anyone! But people do get really uptight when you question their faith. Personally, I don't like being hated. Of course we have a right to tell the truth and challenge people but that just gets lost anyway once someone gets upset.

[Hominid]

...but that just gets lost anyway once someone gets upset.

Yes, and I can remember back in my own religious days being upset as well by those taking pot shots at my faith. BUT - it did serve to cast doubt.  A well-debated and logical point goes a long way... you never know who you may influence.

[Boston Rockbury]

...but that just gets lost anyway once someone gets upset.

Yes, and I can remember back in my own religious days being upset as well by those taking pot shots at my faith. BUT - it did serve to cast doubt.  A well-debated and logical point goes a long way... you never know who you may influence.

Very true. In my case I know I have to watch out for conceit. People are entitled to believe what they want and when their beliefs annoy me I tend to push too hard and assume that I have the answers. It's easy to spot other people's inconsistencies but that isn't the same thing as understanding or wisdom, it's often  intellectual arrogance which is just a way of compensating for emotional inadequacies.

[milnie]

I insulted his Christian sensibilities by stating his god was a murderous, hate-mongering, misogynistic, ego-centric baby-killing asshole. I guess I deserved it. ;-)

What did you do wrong exactly?

I fail to understand his problem!  ;)

Peace dude.

Hey Caesar dude, glad to see you still treading the boards

[RighteousDude]

People are entitled to believe what they want and when their beliefs annoy me I tend to push too hard and assume that I have the answers.

You might just dig this, Dude. Item 4, specifically.

[Boston Rockbury]

People are entitled to believe what they want and when their beliefs annoy me I tend to push too hard and assume that I have the answers.

You might just dig this, Dude. Item 4, specifically.

It's right on the money - but I keep forgetting. From now on I'm going to post under the name SelfRighteousDude just to balance out your maturity and wisdom.

[Rev. Gary (revgms)]

People are entitled to believe what they want and when their beliefs annoy me I tend to push too hard and assume that I have the answers.

You might just dig this, Dude. Item 4, specifically.

Well that's wrong. It is insane to think all beliefs are created equal, that some are not destructive, that some do not lead to greater suffering than they alleviate. It is crazy to think a doctor doesn't know better what's good for a person.

I hold with Sam Harris, there is an objective morality, it can be quantified, we can know what "beliefs" are good for us and which ones are too brutal, too dogmatic to be anything but a sap on human development, at best and possibly so much worse. Beliefs that benefit all sentient beings are right beliefs, those that do not or cause suffering to sentient beings are wrong. What matters is how our beliefs effect other beings, because being experience pain and suffering, and as beings we understand that to be a less than desirable state.

And why did I get an Ayn Rand after taste from that link, yuk.

Keep the battle of ideas going, it is important to our survival, and the survival of other beings we have the ability to protect.

[Hominid]

Ya, not to start a shit storm here, but I'm with revgms... just because something is called a "belief", it doesn't immediately qualify to be upheld and protected. That's for political correctness aficionados who want to coddle and not hurt feelings.

[RighteousDude]

Well that's wrong. It is insane to think all beliefs are created equal, that some are not destructive, that some do not lead to greater suffering than they alleviate. It is crazy to think a doctor doesn't know better what's good for a person.

It doesn't say that all beliefs are created equal. I do, however, say that doctors quite often have no fucking clue what's good for a person and I have loads of personal experience that bear this out. I know many others, medical herbalists, who have far more experience individually and in aggregate that bears this out.

If it were up to doctors, five of them and four being specialists, my mother-in-law would be unable to walk today because at least her feet would be missing. By now, in fact, she might be missing from mid-thigh down. They were all set to begin a course of progressive amputation designed (by them, the butcherous bastards) to save her life. (Save it from what? Them!) They and their modrun medi-kill seance were sure that this was her only hope of survival. But she is today, some six years after the first scheduled butchery, alive and well and walking around with all of her parts intact. Her longhair freak son-in-law, yours dudely, gave her some plants made into a salve.

If it were up to his cardiologist my father-in-law would be eight years dead. His essential hypertension would have done him in after he was told that there was nothing more to be done for him. He was on the highest dose of the strongest available drug, yet his blood pressure was steadily increasing and on the day he called was right around 190/140 but spiking 30 points higher sporadically. Four months later he was completely weaned off of the pharmaceuticals and maintaining an average of 120/80. His longhair freak son-in-law gave him some plants. His blood pressure last week when we talked was still 120/80, still self-regulating.

My father was sent home to die in 2007. If he'd stayed on the prescriptions he'd been given, he would have. If I had it to do over again he'd be compost, but so far as I know the narcissistic old prick is still holding down his recliner all day every day issuing illiterate racist rants at his big screen television. I check the Social Security Death Index every now and then and he's not on it yet, anyway.

There's a guy across town here who's one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet, always has kind words even for the worst of assholes, a very Dude kinda guy who would be on treatment for diabetes today and on that well known slowly degenerative course that leads to an early grave if it were up to our local physicians. His blood sugars are under perfect control today with no pharmaceuticals at all. I don't even know what he's up to today because he's taken control of his own life and doesn't need me any more. Yay him.

And so on. What is patently absurd is actually the belief that doctors know what is best for patients. It is demonstrably wrong, in fact. Every year, year in and year out with no trends indicating that a change is in the offing, right around 200,000 Americans die due to medical mistakes. Mistakes. Not treatment failures. Plain old did the wrong fucking thing mistakes. There are no reporting requirements for them, but it is reasonable to assume that the number of suboptimal outcomes due to mistakes is many times higher. And if one considers that cases like those I've mentioned here are perfectly common, and the bad things that I prevented would have been considered normal outcomes, it's really very difficult to have anything like faith in the modern medical services industry. In order to do it, you have to suspend rationality.

Not all science is created equally, either. Quite a lot of it is fucking us all to death even as we speak.

Beliefs that benefit all sentient beings are right beliefs, those that do not or cause suffering to sentient beings are wrong.

That idea is one I hold dear, and it has been around for many centuries. There are many, though, who consider it logically and morally wrong. While most thinking, feeling human beings can agree to that principle on the face of it, in practice most of them are opposed. All ya gotta do it tell 'em what they'd have to give up in the short term only to live in accordance with that principle and they lose their taste for it right quick.

And why did I get an Ayn Rand after taste from that link, yuk.

I have no idea. Point 3 is at odds with that cunt's psychopathic ideology. Discordianism, in general, is in opposition to that cunt's psychopathic ideology.

The point I was hoping to make is that there's nothing to be gained by directly challenging those absurd things that most people believe. Your intent might be the betterment of life for all living beings and even the individual before you, your logic might be airtight, your facts concrete and proven, but directly assailing those beliefs serves only to redouble the commitment of the deluded cabbages to their absurd beliefs. You can only delay and might unwittingly work to prevent any eventual betterment of conditions by speaking directly to the fact of the absurdity.

Suppose you're one who just cannot dig the fact that modern medical science is woefully inadequate, often inferior to other known and proven treatments, and quite often dangerous, as I've stated above. You'll read those words of mine, and without even having first consciously formed the intention of doing so your mind will start collating those things you have accepted as factual into what you can believe is a coherent argument against my position. It's a primal defense mechanism, and one that very few people can overcome by force of will. Most have no desire to overcome it, and the ability to do so is quite rare. Most who have that ability won't use it unless and until they come face to face with an immediate crisis that cannot be resolved within the framework of their beliefs. Usually, it must be a rapidly unfolding, horrific crisis that shocks the mind beyond its ability for comprehension.

Lacking a shock of that magnitude, we each carry around a primal defense mechanism that seeks to preserve the sanctity of our boneheaded beliefs. We humans are not physically endowed with great survival tools -- we are tasty, weak, and slow. Opposable thumbs are handy, but our greatest advantage is our intelligence. We can outsmart most anything, even the weather. Usually. It's what we perceive and how we perceive it, how we assess it, and how we react to it that are the keys to our survival as individuals and as a species. That's it. If we fail to perceive or perceive inaccurately and/or assess incorrectly, we act or react wrongly and we're lunch. So when you tell some guy that his thinking is fucked up, he feels threatened at a deep, primal level. If his thinking is fucked up, his survival is less assured. He cannot have that! So all kinds of shit happens in his head, and oh by the way fuck you. Threaten me like that again I'm gonna bash in your skull with a rock.

So if you want to change things, don't directly assail the beliefs. Crab up on 'em, sneak some information in a little at time and allow time for relaxed digestion.

Ya, not to start a shit storm here, but I'm with revgms... just because something is called a "belief", it doesn't immediately qualify to be upheld and protected.

With abiding respect for both of you Dudes, revgms misunderstood and so mischaracterized the whole thing. Discordianism and Dudeism are like branches of the same fish, man.

If you read over the referenced document, you might find that while it expresses some pretty righteous ideas, it also recursively cancels itself. You agree not to let others do your thinking for you. Well, fuck, man, doesn't that mean that I agree not to let some piece of paper hanging on the wall of my office tell me what to think? Why hell yes it does! Discordians do that kind of shit all the time. A fitting example is the Pentabarf. After laying out in writing four things that Discordians must believe and do, it says that a Discordian is prohibited from believing what he reads.

It's all good, or all bad, or all pretty much the same anyway, man. We all believe shit. We all believe some pretty absurd shit, too. I mean, ya know, we who are Dudes do not believe absurd shit, but all those other motherfuckers? Bat shit crazy, most of 'em, to believe that really absurd shit they do.