For those of you believe the lies

[DigitalBuddha]

For those of you who believe the lies, propaganda and rhetoric we are already hearing on "gun control" being the answer (well done Dianne Feinstein, nice to see you using the deaths of 26 innocent people to forward your political agenda of gun grabbing, NEVER miss an opportunity, do you?); here is a little eye opening and sad history;

In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop ABSOLUTELY nothing...

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults; at least 58 people were injured. The perpetrator first killed his wife, and committed suicide with his last explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7?14 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.

In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop nothing.

Historic UNdudeness; Bath School disaster - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster



Note: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/feinstein_12-17.html

[Boston Rockbury]

The fact that people have sometimes killed by other means doesn't necessarily imply that easy access to automatic weapons is not a significant factor in some mass murders.

I'm a gun owner and I love shooting as a sport but I had to go through some pretty rigorous police checks before I got my licence and I think that's a good thing. They also came to my home to check my gun cabinet security, which I think was a good too. You know we really don't need automatic weapons; handguns, shotguns and hunting rifles sure. Police should check for felonies and serious mental health issues - it just makes sense - a mon avis.

[RighteousDude]

In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop nothing.

Thanks for pointing that out, dude.

I grew up with a psychopathic parent. Fear of consequences keeps most of them more or less in line most of the time, but when that fear is lost there is nothing that will stop them short of locking them up or killing them. If they think they can get away with something they want to do or reach the point of not caring whether or not they're caught, they will act. Period.

Granted, most psychopaths go their entire lives without killing or being convicted of criminal violence, and not all psychopaths are sadistic. The thing that makes them dangerous is that their view of other living things is entirely selfish -- another being might be valued, even highly valued, for what it provides to the psychopath, but that being is not viewed by the psychopath as having intrinsic value, as having that quality we call dignity, or as having any rights at all. Psychopaths also act very deliberately, not just in any violence they might commit but in every single action of their lives. There is no randomness in a psychopath. If they're committing a violent act, you can be certain that it was planned and mentally rehearsed many times, including contingency plans.

That's why gun control cannot stop mass murders. That's why metal detectors and the other trappings of fortresses cannot stop them. Psychopaths are cerebral beings and will defeat every countermeasure you might throw at them. If the school is impermeable, there are other targets that are not. If guns are inaccessible they'll just choose other weapons.

Mass murders are rooted in mental illness, not the availability of specific means.

[DigitalBuddha]

The fact that people have sometimes killed by other means doesn't necessarily imply that easy access to automatic weapons is not a significant factor in some mass murders.

I'm a gun owner and I love shooting as a sport but I had to go through some pretty rigorous police checks before I got my licence and I think that's a good thing. They also came to my home to check my gun cabinet security, which I think was a good too. You know we really don't need automatic weapons; handguns, shotguns and hunting rifles sure. Police should check for felonies and serious mental health issues - it just makes sense - a mon avis.

I say we ban baseball bats, and NOT worry about automatic weapons...

[DigitalBuddha]

In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop nothing.

Thanks for pointing that out, dude.

I grew up with a psychopathic parent. Fear of consequences keeps most of them more or less in line most of the time, but when that fear is lost there is nothing that will stop them short of locking them up or killing them. If they think they can get away with something they want to do or reach the point of not caring whether or not they're caught, they will act. Period.

Granted, most psychopaths go their entire lives without killing or being convicted of criminal violence, and not all psychopaths are sadistic. The thing that makes them dangerous is that their view of other living things is entirely selfish -- another being might be valued, even highly valued, for what it provides to the psychopath, but that being is not viewed by the psychopath as having intrinsic value, as having that quality we call dignity, or as having any rights at all. Psychopaths also act very deliberately, not just in any violence they might commit but in every single action of their lives. There is no randomness in a psychopath. If they're committing a violent act, you can be certain that it was planned and mentally rehearsed many times, including contingency plans.

That's why gun control cannot stop mass murders. That's why metal detectors and the other trappings of fortresses cannot stop them. Psychopaths are cerebral beings and will defeat every countermeasure you might throw at them. If the school is impermeable, there are other targets that are not. If guns are inaccessible they'll just choose other weapons.

Mass murders are rooted in mental illness, not the availability of specific means.

Well said, mang!

[Stever]

Hey, dude..does anyone remember the Laurie Dan shootings?
Happened some time ago,fairly close to me,in Willmette,Il
(I think I got my facts right..if not,please correct me)
Anywho...she killed some people with a RIFLE,and then used a HANDGUN to kill HERSELF..
The mayor dude of Willmete promptly banned all handguns..
Uhh...WTF? The logic there is lost on me...

[RighteousDude]

Happened some time ago,fairly close to me,in Willmette,Il
(I think I got my facts right..if not,please correct me)

Winnetka, IL. 

Anywho...she killed some people with a RIFLE,and then used a HANDGUN to kill HERSELF..

The only firearms she used were handguns. A .22 Beretta semi-auto, a .32 S&W, and a .357 S&W. She also used arsenic and failed fire bombs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Dann

[Stever]

Ah well,no research equals epic fail on my part..damn,Im lazy.
I stand corrected

[Leopoldrose]

Agreed dude. I would add though, not that you are saying this, but mental illness does not equal violence.

[Stever]

No,mental illness does not equal violence,I mean,look at how fucked up I am!!
Just kidding!?
I do think that we need to look closely at the medications prescribed for metal illness.
And why these drugs are pushed.."oh,just give him a pill..he will be fine" sort of attitude is a real bummer.

[RighteousDude]

Agreed dude. I would add though, not that you are saying this, but mental illness does not equal violence.

I'd never suggest such a thing. That's why I was careful to point out that it's a subset of psychopaths who are given to violence. I didn't even mention Antisocial Personal Disorder... but it's an even smaller subset of those with APD who are given to violence. Never mind that there are three to four times more of them.

The major point remains: It's not the means that we have to fear, it's the mind.

[Boston Rockbury]

No,mental illness does not equal violence,I mean,look at how fucked up I am!!
Just kidding!?
I do think that we need to look closely at the medications prescribed for metal illness.
And why these drugs are pushed.."oh,just give him a pill..he will be fine" sort of attitude is a real bummer.

Mental illness is way over-medicated. There's truck-loads of money in it for the pharmceutical companies because patients are often on med's for years and years.
I did an anterview with Ruby Wax a couple of months back about how effective Buddhist based 'Mindfulness Therapy' has been for her compared to medication.
So much so that Ruby has now done a masters degree in Mindfulness to become a practitioner.

[Hominid]

No,mental illness does not equal violence,I mean,look at how fucked up I am!!
Just kidding!?
I do think that we need to look closely at the medications prescribed for metal illness.
And why these drugs are pushed.."oh,just give him a pill..he will be fine" sort of attitude is a real bummer.

Mental illness is way over-medicated. There's truck-loads of money in it for the pharmceutical companies because patients are often on med's for years and years.
I did an anterview with Ruby Wax a couple of months back about how effective Buddhist based 'Mindfulness Therapy' has been for her compared to medication.
So much so that Ruby has now done a masters degree in Mindfulness to become a practitioner.

"Like"

[Zen Dog]

Hey, dude..does anyone remember the Laurie Dan shootings?
Happened some time ago,fairly close to me,in Willmette,Il
(I think I got my facts right..if not,please correct me)
Anywho...she killed some people with a RIFLE,and then used a HANDGUN to kill HERSELF..
The mayor dude of Willmete promptly banned all handguns..
Uhh...WTF? The logic there is lost on me...

Will that be "The silicon chip inside her head was set to overload and nobodies gonna go to school today,she' gonna make them stay at home"? Boom Town Rats.Aug '79.

[Zen Dog]

I thought she was still alive and in jail.