Anyone notice that the christians are still around?

[Andrea Da Fino]

Mmh, that's interesting Dude, I didn't see it under this light. Well, I'm probably working with my issues too. All the time. 

Glad I've finally been able to be comprehensible, I should work more on my vocabulary. If it will ever happen again that I have a bit of free clams I should definitely come for holidays there, so you and Rev. Ed can give me some lessons, between beers of course. Guinness possibly.

You're perfectly right as regards Sicily, strange that even if they were waging wars against everyone they seemed to be more limber minded than today. I just don't understand why if the greatest majority of Muslims are good hearted people they don't say a word about their fundamentalist branches. I think they should. Every religion has its own zealots but usually they don't create as much damage. Oh well, the always durned human nature.

Not taking stances sometimes means digging or approving or at a minimum not caring about.

Imdo.     

[BikerDude]

We can always hope they will be right one of these times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=186Hvzh6II4&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLF5E5E5DC392DE8F7

[Sailing Dude]

I heard a story about the Bahamian religion that kind of our first cusion the Rastuman's ( I may have spelled it wrong ) they partaque in weed as there religion and some have moved back to Africa for there religion. Any one know about these folks?

[Caesar dude]

As for Islam actually I haven't yet read their sacred book but from what I know in reality women are usually just a step above dogs in many Islamic countries. Men can marry women from different religions after they've joined Islam because this way they spread Islam, women cannot leave Islam for other religions. It might be that there is freedom is Islam but I can't see it. That's why it would be interesting to hear the voice of a dude from an Islamic country. It might be that the kind of islamic religion we know here is different from the one in their own country.

I've read an English translation and the Hadiths that go with it...I lived in a muslim country for 10 years and watched as they went about their business under Shariah law for all that time.

Now I lived in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates which by Muslim standards is a very liberal country but Shariah is Shariah...they don't do stoning there and even flogging is rare but can happen in extreme cases. Now while I don't necessarily agree with their punishments I have to say that crime is very very low and people certainly do think twice before breaking any law.

There is a Christian Church in Abu Dhabi which is a proper stone built building and the land on which it is sited was actually given to the Church by the then ruler Sheikh Zayed. So it is consecrated and non muslim. It is full every Sunday with Christian worshippers... mainly Filipino but other nationalities are represented and it is generally a British priest in residence.

As for this

from what I know in reality women are usually just a step above dogs in many Islamic countries.

That is a very unfair and unjust statement. If you are refering to how the Taliban treat women then maybe it's accurate but most muslim countries cherish and revere their women folk. Sure, they have rules about how they dress...sure, there are traditions and customs that people follow and yes to the outside world it may look as though these women are downtrodden and repressed. However the truth is entirely different.

Rape is almost unheard of in Muslim society. Domestic violence although it does occur, has penalties so strict and so severe that it rarely happens. Indeed I know of one guy who was very very high up in Arab society (not a Sheikh but within the inner circle) that got drunk and then came home and beat his wife who was sent to jail for 4 years and was ostracised by his own family and not allowed to see his children again.

The Arab woman rules the household....behind closed doors it is she who makes the decisions and she who says who the man can and cannot see. It is the women in the house who decide what time he shall go to bed and how many children they shall have...believe me...the women are the powerhouses the men the puppets.

When there is a wedding there are two parties male and female....the women plot and plan and scheme....the men party!!!

I'm in no way saying that the Muslim way is the right way...but I do think people need to be a little bit more informed on what most Westerners perceive as an evil and unjust bunch of terrorists and misogynists....that simply ain't true dudes!

Peace

[Hominid]

Caesare dude: Your observations of Muslim culture may be different than the over-generalized version that western culture normally depicts, but dammit, those judgements exist for good reason. The countless acts of terrorism, honour killings, internationally exclaimed jihads... (read: Salman Rushdie et al)... Muslims constantly make news with their pissed-off attitude at the rest of the world. They make big news for good reason.

[Caesar dude]

The IRA who were a Catholic based Christian organisation committed just as many outrages and terrorist acts in the name of the pope and God. They were the first terrorist organisation to insist that women and children were legitimate targets.

I agree with you over the the "terrorist" tag that we put on Muslims and why they are perceived that way.

Now if homeland security would just grow some balls then all they have to do to stop terrorism would be to ban all brown skinned turban and ghutra wearing individuals....cos clearly that is where the threat originates....fuck I'm rambling...it's too early in the morning...

Peace...

[Andrea Da Fino]

@CD

"Now while I don't necessarily agree with their punishments I have to say that crime is very very low and people certainly do think twice before breaking any law."

Sometimes punishment is too high, and sometimes it's none, Ghaddafi sons could do everything, but as a general rule you are right. If you know you're going be punished for real you get very careful. That's why here in the West crime spreads everywhere while there and also in Asia is pretty low. I don't know though if this applies to everyone or only in respect to Muslims. It works to keep crimes low but there are also too many crimes, like eating pork chops and drinking beer.

As for the rest CD you know better than me and first hand so I have to trust you.  But my opinion, beyond Talibans and similar paraquats was also based on how Muslim men behave here in Italy. Probably here in the bananas' republic of Italy no one watches over them and how they run their families. But I have the strong feeling that one thing is relating to other Muslims brothers and another thing rrelating to unbelievers, or non-Muslims.

Oh well, anyway thanks for the new notes dude. 

As Hominid said though it might be that the great majority of Muslims are cool and righteous people but they almost never say a word about the uptight and reactionary paraquats between them.

The IRA, well, that's another story. It wasn't a matter of religion. But let's not go into that. 

Fucking A, dudes, this thread is pretty interesting and full of food for thoughts, am I wrong?

[Caesar dude]

The IRA, well, that's another story. It wasn't a matter of religion. But let's not go into that.

Oh hell yes it was about a fucking religion!!!!

A Catholic Religion...catholics v protestants....no hidden agendas! Try being brought up in a Protestant community as a Catholic....or going out with a protestant girl as a Catholic....

Or becoming a soldier as a Catholic....

How the fuck can you say that the IRA had nothing to do with religion....sheeeesh! ?

[Andrea Da Fino]

I thought it was about one country having invaded another one in the past and refusing to let the industrial part go with the rest of the country when Ireland freed itself. Something like Brits vs Northern Irish with religion being just an addition and not the main reason. 

Having not lived there I have to rely on external sources.

[Hominid]

I thought it was about one country having invaded another one in the past and refusing to let the industrial part go with the rest of the country when Ireland freed itself. Something like Brits vs Northern Irish with religion being just an addition and not the main reason. 

Having not lived there I have to rely on external sources.

I've heard the same ... even religious people like Billy Graham who visited Ireland said the fighting was political, not religious. And as always, it's never *just* one or the other, likely a mix of the two. Very interesting discussion.

When considering this shit, we must think about the history and culture of the people and countries we talk about. For instance, the middle east is different in that religion and culture are one in the same. But, western culture separates them, thanks to the influence of Greek philosophy in its education. One kind of "stream" separates head and heart, the other doesn't. Explains many things. 

Interesting shit.

[Andrea Da Fino]

Yeah Hominide dude, explains many things, Far out man.