Dudeism insulted

[meekon5]

M5, I don't doubt you, and I dig the way the forum is organized. Works pretty well. The point was that without common ground, accepted features, tenets, etc.,

I completely agree with this point we do need some framework so that when some nihilist represents themselves as a Dudeist we can disclaim any association.

But no one would take the place of Lao Tzu. He laid down part of the principles of Taoism, he and not someone else. And, even if as a philosophy is universal dudeism as an organized-disorganized religion has a head of the church which is Olly.

A good example, but only because I believe you are wrong. Lao Tzu did not lead Taoism.

By the legend he was leaving China behind in disgust and the last gate keeper at the last gate in the great wall begged him for one last insight. In reply he wrote down the Tao Te Ching.

Taoism was built around that text and developed by people other than Lao Tzu.

I think that Dudeism needs to be loosely organized and as an organization the boss is Olly. Not me and not anyone else.

Actually read Olly's posts. The last thing he wants is to be the boss. And in no way should he be. Again he came up with the name for the way a lot of us have acted all our lives. Dudeism is the title I use for others who need a title to use to explain the way I am.

I think that
Actually I'm having a bit of language difficulties explaining my opinion.

Please I greatly respect the fact that you are able to do this and continue to debate in a language other than your own first langage. I have to admit at University I could have done this in German, French, and a bit of Dutch, but, much to my embarrassment, have let all that slip due to not using it.

I think that
To give an example Jedi Knights are pretty much walking their own way within the Force but they follow the advices of Yoda as a group.

I'm glad you give this example because again I feel you are entirely wrong.

In the first three films (IV, V, IV) Yoda is one of the few Jedi left and is referred to because he was Obi Wan's teacher.

If you look at the second three films (I, II, III), you will notice that Yoda is a respected member of the Jedi Council (or the Jedi High Council). He is not the head of the religion. (the Jedi council advise the Chancellor of the Republic, or The Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, the President of the Republic).

Jedi_Council_Meeting by meekon5, on Flickr

Yoda does not lead the Jedi alone until he is the only Jedi left.

This is how I see us here. We are the deacons (all of us, including Oliver) of Dudeism. It is here that we forge Dudeism in all it's aspects. we are the Dudeist Council.

I have to stop for the moment because I am now late for work.

[Hominid]

Fuck... um - a little anal?

[meekon5]

Fuck... um - a little anal?

Yes but still making the point that Oliver's word is not law, and shouldn't be.

Sorry but as a dyslexic I do tend towards pedantry (though an advantage in my profession a bit difficult when talking to none disabled people).

[Hominid]

...and perhaps a little too involved in the intricacies of a religion started as a tongue-in-cheek parody?

Bummer man. Or am I missing a REALLY huge Monty Pythong thing?

[meekon5]

...and perhaps a little too involved in the intricacies of a religion started as a tongue-in-cheek parody?

Actually there's where the problem is I think.

To a number of us this isn't "a tongue-in-cheek parody".

This is a serious attempt to reconcile our understanding and practice of Taoism, Zen, and possibly a number of other eastern influences into a workable frame of reference to practice as westerners what we see as a dynamic and on going religion.

I personally think there is a lot of confusion between parody and the religious concept of the holy fool, or the Laughing Buddha.

You may also have missed the extensive discussions on Abideism.

It's something that is often stated (mostly by you, Me and Rev Dog), but alas, the Lebowskiian ideals seem to have root in the masses.  I think we all know that 130,000 people did not get ordained out of a true belief in Dudeism, but as a tribute to a cult movie.

This was what the Abidism movement was about, to develop pure dudeism without the Lebowski baggage.  Of course, in an effort to downplay Lebowski in Dudeism it set off the people who assumed that to do things without Lebowski was "too serious", and then people complained it was all heavy and serious, to which I responded with "well don't read it then".

I'm sorry if you joined this forum expecting a piss take of a major religion, but thats not what it is about (on the whole).

It's not actually Olivers little club for having a laugh (though laughter and piss taking are not frowned upon, and in fact part of the whole thing).

It is a serious attempt to step away from the formulated and restrictive practices of other religions, but still accept there is a need for some form of spirituality.

I understand you may have looked across the majority of the site and easily confused what was happening here.

I also see that you would have been confused by the seriousness and commitment of myself and others in recent spats about what (from the "tongue-in-cheek parody" point of view) would appear to be inconsequential and unimportant points.

I have no problem with you not taking any of this seriously, that's your business, and you're entitled to that point of view, but do try to understand some of us (most of us who are regular posters) are here for a basically serious undertaking.

Which is what I mean when I see that Oliver may have started the whole thing as "a tongue-in-cheek parody", but unfortunately a few of us seem to have taken him seriously.

[DigitalBuddha]

Could this be a meeting of the Counsel of Dudes perhaps a couple thousand years from now on planet Dudetopia? Subject matter in debate; "is this not Nam, what are the fucking rules?" And, after the meeting; a few burgers, a few beers, are troubles are over dudes, let's get us a lane and roll a few.........

[Dirty Hippie]

Well Dudes, I just don't know. Whether you find this all to be Bunny's tongue between yer cheeks or a religion or what have you? Hmmm....

I feel that Dudeism, like Taoism, is closer to a philosophy then a religion. I don't find any of this to be "spiritual", but more so mental. A guide to living your life, not a practice of worship and spirituality and all that.

But hey, you should take from it what you wish. If the Llama doesn't wanna be an overseer or a pope and lay it all out in commandments, then why are we trying to?

[meekon5]

I feel that Dudeism, like Taoism, is closer to a philosophy then a religion. I don't find any of this to be "spiritual", but more so mental. A guide to living your life, not a practice of worship and spirituality and all that.

I am of course using the term religion in the eastern sense so agree with you here.

But do feel that elements of the tao are spiritual.

But not in the christian (Freudian oedipal) "god is daddy and will sort everything out for you, especially if you pray hard enough to him" sense.

More in the "the Tao is the is the combined effect of the big machine (universe, cosmos, multi-verse) working the way it's always worked but you have become sentient as a cog in a watch that can see the watch moving and changing but whoa betide you if you try to stand against the flow of the mechanism, so don't bother and go with the flow anyway" sense.

But not in a "crying in the corner whining that I can't do anything with my life because it's all preordained and to change anything would be to go against the status quo" sense.

More in "the big machine is effected by and effects the choices I make and the place I am at now, but it's ultimately up to me to make that choice, and my decision is mine not anyone else's" sense.

[Hominid]

Well Dudes, I just don't know. Whether you find this all to be Bunny's tongue between yer cheeks or a religion or what have you? Hmmm....

I feel that Dudeism, like Taoism, is closer to a philosophy then a religion. I don't find any of this to be "spiritual", but more so mental. A guide to living your life, not a practice of worship and spirituality and all that.

But hey, you should take from it what you wish. If the Llama doesn't wanna be an overseer or a pope and lay it all out in commandments, then why are we trying to?

I hear ya, but by its very intent and presentation, it's a church (Latter Day Dude), and a religion (Quoting Oliver: "I always wanted to start my own religion"). We're all ordained priests.  Don't call it something it isn't.

I'll say it again: it's a parody based on a cult movie. Making it something WAY more than that is simply taking creative license, and adding to Oliver's original intent of creating a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek "religion". Just look at the humour on the main web page. I'm simply stating something kinda obvious here, and that's my style. I'm just telling it like it is...

And like always, it's just, like, my opinion man...

[Andrea Da Fino]

"A good example, but only because I believe you are wrong. Lao Tzu did not lead Taoism."

You're right, but he was the one who made the ball rolling down the spiritual lane. Not Pink Po or Jip Wey or whatever, he was the first one to come out with the new stuff and he's the first roller. 1000 years from now Dudeism will still be distilled by Oliver, and as the first roller he probably has a deeper comprehension of Dudeism. That's as I see it. Also, Lao Tzu didn't lead anything because Taoism is a spiritual philosophy and not a church, we are also a church. That's different.
You can't lead the Tao, the Tao doesn't give you a shit about human beings, but knowing the rules of Tao you can achieve pretty much.


"Actually read Olly's posts. The last thing he wants is to be the boss."

Correct, and I dig his attitude, but he's the head of the church of the latter day dude, with the archdudeship second. While I like freedom as everyone else I understand we need a bit of rules for peaceful living, either in the religious field and in the social one. It doesn't need to be accepted by anyone but as I see it Olly is the head of the church and the wiser man of the philosophy. That's why I think the final word belongs to him.
If Dudeism is a philosophy he is the one who came out with the definition like Eraclito and similar people, whatever thay are called in English. If Dudeism is a church there must be a head of the church otherwise everyone sooner or later thinks that the world starts and stops at our own convenience. We are human beings after all and we all tend to see our point of view as the correct one. So if it's a church he's the head of it. If Dudeism is a concept again he's the one who came out with it and he's probably the best one who can talk about it.

You know, I see Dudeism as a spiritual religion and a church so that's the way it work for me. The day things will change I'll go my way but I won't be anymore a Dudeist. The fact that we haven't much clear now what Dudeism and being a Dudeist mean doesn't change the fact that Dudeism, being a Dudeist or a Dudeist Priest mean a particular thing. As I said above water is water, it isn't wine, it isn't beer; it's water. Dudeism can be applied to everything but not everything is Dudeism. That's Tao, and it's another thing.

Thanks for your compliments about my English usage, but I know I'm a pretty crappy English speaker.  I should have taken the chance when younger to come over there and go to the University, oh well.


"I'm glad you give this example because again I feel you are entirely wrong.

In the first three films (IV, V, IV) Yoda is one of the few Jedi left and is referred to because he was Obi Wan's teacher."

Correct, and as a matter of facts Jedi got screwed because they didn't listen to what Yoda said, that Skywalker was in reality an asshole. If Yoda was the head of the Jedi Knights they would have won before the fight. Human beings tend to resort to leaders only when the plane crashes into the mountain. Then they begin screaming around saying "save me, save me" to someone who knows what to do. Democracy is a cool concept but without a clear "leader" it always ends up with a bunch of people sitting around a table talking of bullshits and eating costly food doing nothing until it's too late. To go back to StarWars if there was no Yoda the council would have remained there talking and talking until they had those fucking Siths behind their back only to go to Yoda sking to be saved. That's human nature.

Not a very good example but the Roman Empire fell when the power was in the hands of the Senate, not the Emperor. When there are 100 people thinking they are all right you know the kind of mess it can be. I am for democracy and freedom but there must be a final word from a wiser man.

Also, let's not forget that is Yoda who leads the Jedi's Army when the shit comes to light.

But that's just how I see Dudeism, a group of mellowly organized free thinkers. As well as religion per se has not a negative meaning but depends on those who follow it the same goes for organization and rules and whatever. We just have to find the right balance between freedom and organization.

As I said before if someone is just a Dudeist that's cool but if someone is a Dudeist Priest there is an organized structure and so on. At the end we are a church. Also, let's not forget that to make the world a bit of a better place we have to reach a certain spiritual weight in the religious field otherwise people around will go on considering Dudeists just a bunch of amateurs who are a movie fan club based on internet.

To give another historical example picked one by one Germans were immense fighters but the superior organization of Roman Army won 9 times over 10. The same went for Scots and British. Sometimes organization is needed and an organized effort is required to reach a certain point.

That's just my opinion, ad sorry if I've lost my train of thoughts somewhere. 

[Andrea Da Fino]

A couple of other points:

M5, Oliver word is not law, as regards the philosophy it might be, but as regards the chrch it should be. He's the founder and the head of the church which is a real church even if we don't have yet a physical location. The fact that he listen to everyone doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to say what's cool and what's not about Dudeism. He started this religion so he has the right to do this.

Oh, I'll abandon the seriously silly attitude in favour of the Laughing Buddha's one.


DB, far out, that's what probably would happen in normal times, not with the Black Death approaching. 


DH, you're right, only that the world can't be dealt with just saying take it easy or fuck it. Real life isn't a movie so we are debating  to deepen our own understanding of Dudeism for the benefit of everyone. Also we are thring to understand what is dudeist and what is not. We dig being righteus and thorough dudes in our everyday life. 


Homind, it might be your right, it might be not but at the end it's your point of view on Dudeism and that's cool, each one of us has one. Only that if you're right I should begin to think about starting my own religion based on Frankestein Junior.     


Ok, I've blathered enough, have a great day dudes.

[meekon5]

Andrea FYI Eraclito  = Heraclitus

(google translated a greek wiki page to get that one).

[Hominid]

Homind, it might be your right, it might be not but at the end it's your point of view on Dudeism and that's cool, each one of us has one. Only that if you're right I should begin to think about starting my own religion based on Frankestein Junior.      

Indeed!  Or how about Pulp Fiction? We'd get to carry guns, and every time we're about to cap someone's ass, we get to quote:
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee. "

[cckeiser]

The world does Not need another Religion...it needs Dudeism...a philosophical way to live life.
Down With Dogma!

[Andrea Da Fino]

Thanks M5. 

Hominid, probably Pulp Fiction is a bit too much. 

Cckeiser, oh, that's a bummer, I really liked the idea of having zesty enterprises with a blonde assistant as a religious tenet. Well, I'll stick with Dudeism then.