Sikhism

[DigitalBuddha]

Yeah, but look at the guy...you going to tell him!?

Unibrows dudes...unibrows.

Hassan Chop!!!

[Rev. Ed C]

Thanks for those links Ruckus and DB.
Fills me with good cheer on a slow day

[Andrea Da Fino]

Well Dude Rev., glad you're back here. 

[DigitalBuddha]

Thanks for those links Ruckus and DB.
Fills me with good cheer on a slow day

Fabulous stuff, man; dudely like cheer.

[Whit]

I would like to point out that participation in violence is very different morally from the initiation there of. You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic, or as my Daddy always told me "Son, Never start a fight but always finish one." That is pretty much the Sikh model. Historically speaking they have almost always been on defense, and bringing huge buckets of whoopass to that side of the deal.. 

[meekon5]

I would like to point out that participation in violence is very different morally from the initiation there of. You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic, or as my Daddy always told me "Son, Never start a fight but always finish one." That is pretty much the Sikh model. Historically speaking they have almost always been on defense, and bringing huge buckets of whoopass to that side of the deal.. 

I think Mr Gandhi may have some problem with this line of argument.

[Rev. Ed C]

I would like to point out that participation in violence is very different morally from the initiation there of. You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic, or as my Daddy always told me "Son, Never start a fight but always finish one." That is pretty much the Sikh model. Historically speaking they have almost always been on defense, and bringing huge buckets of whoopass to that side of the deal.. 

I think Mr Gandhi may have some problem with this line of argument.

Yeah, but this is India we're talking about.  Gandhi was a hindu, not a Sikh, and there's not a lot of inter-religious dialogue in India.  Let's not even get into the whole Hindu/Muslim divide

I dont agree with the warrior aspect of the historical Sikhs, but then again I don't agree with the warring side of any faith (that includes the Buddhists!).  That doesn't mean I don't respect them for the core values (in spite of whatever circumstances drove them to war in times of turbulance).

It just so happens that I respect the Sikh faith above most others, mostly for their values of equality and charity, two of my own dearest values, and ones I feel that Dudeism also reflects strongly... and Gandhi as well

[meekon5]

I think Mr Gandhi may have some problem with this line of argument.

Yeah, but this is India we're talking about.  Gandhi was a hindu, not a Sikh, and there's not a lot of inter-religious dialogue in India.  Let's not even get into the whole Hindu/Muslim divide

I dont agree with the warrior aspect of the historical Sikhs, but then again I don't agree with the warring side of any faith (that includes the Buddhists!).  That doesn't mean I don't respect them for the core values (in spite of whatever circumstances drove them to war in times of turbulance).

It just so happens that I respect the Sikh faith above most others, mostly for their values of equality and charity, two of my own dearest values, and ones I feel that Dudeism also reflects strongly... and Gandhi as well

I just meant with the phrase:

...You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic...

That Gandhi would have disagreed with.

Your servant use too much salt in your porridge this morning mate?

[Rev. Ed C]

I just meant with the phrase:

...You have no choice in being targeted but you have no moral responsibility to become a victim or statistic...

That Gandhi would have disagreed with.

Ah, I see.  Although I was making a fairly general comment about the whole thing, I do see you were being specific... but I think my ramblings still stand

Your servant use too much salt in your porridge this morning mate?

I'm not sure I follow you... is this an obscure reference I'm missing?

[Whit]

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.~Mohandas Gandhi

Meaning there is a time and a place, dude.  Absolute Pacifism is a Principle and Brother Mo said "A Principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings like us cannot practice perfection, we devise every moment limits of its compromise in practice."~Mohandas Gandhi

So i gotta go with, in practice, "Do everything you can to avoid a fight, but sometimes when you are faced with an unavoidable situation on it is better to take out the aggressors than to let yourself be done in, yes there will be costs involved to even the side of right (i.e. Donny) but you gotta do what you gotta do. It's hard to stand on the moral high ground from six feet under that hill." I also realize that this is the Lebowskiless section of the conversation but I think that the allegory in the film bears me out on this one as well.

[Whit]

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."~Mohandas Gandhi... that sounds pretty second amendmentish to me.

[Rev. Ed C]

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.~Mohandas Gandhi

Meaning there is a time and a place, dude.  Absolute Pacifism is a Principle and Brother Mo said "A Principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings like us cannot practice perfection, we devise every moment limits of its compromise in practice."~Mohandas Gandhi

So i gotta go with, in practice, "Do everything you can to avoid a fight, but sometimes when you are faced with an unavoidable situation on it is better to take out the aggressors than to let yourself be done in, yes there will be costs involved to even the side of right (i.e. Donny) but you gotta do what you gotta do. It's hard to stand on the moral high ground from six feet under that hill." I also realize that this is the Lebowskiless section of the conversation but I think that the allegory in the film bears me out on this one as well.

Nice chunk of philosophising you dug up there Whit.  I possibly need to study more Ghandi myself now

There's a lot of people here that are pacifist in principle, but to paraphrase my good friend, Rev. AF, "If anyone threatens my family, they better expect trouble".  He very much ascribes to the principal of violence is abhorant, but sometimes you need to defend against violence with violence... which is what this chunk of our discussion has been about   I think most Dudeists are of this persuasion, pacifist, but not without a will to beat back an aggressor who cannot be reasoned with.  If they won't listen to sense, or pleading, or take whatever's in your wallet, grab for your bowling ball

As for Lebowski references, that's all good.  It's a contextual analogy, not a senseless quote.  I use those sorts of things all the time just to illustrate points in a commonly understood format.  As long as it's in the Dudeism mix, and not just Lebowski for Lebowski's sake, it's all fine

[Andrea Da Fino]

Thanks for the reference Rev.

As one of my fellow italian priests said "don't fuck a stranger in the ass, unless he tried to fuck you first". We're pacific but we know that we can't be pacifist in 'Nam.

Said differently using the movie for reference if someone pisses on your rug than you can take any rug in the house, wheter the old man knows it or not. But never take a rug first. As whit correctly said never hit first but always hit last. Even if dodging before being hit is always advisable.

Anyhow, I find this Sikhism thread pretty interesting. Have a great whathaveyou dudes!

[Rev. RJ Dudemiester]

anyone ever heard of the Bahi Faith?
they are in some ways, the bastard child of Islam... but wait! the story gets better!
they proposed that all legitimate prophets were essentially the same- they were receiving enlightenment from the same source, and trying to present the message in their cultural setting.

to put it another way, all prophets where Buddhas, and religions were the mis-communication of their divine msg from the Atman.

[HnauHnakrapunt]

Indeed, a classic theory that Christ studdied Buddhism

The similarities are so obvious here that I am really upset when I hear from some Christians that Buddhism means worshipping demons.
As for Baha'i - it makes me smile a bit to hear from them: yes, all monotheists are equal but we are the most developed stage of this. Have your equality cake and eat it.