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Author Topic: Hichens on Islam  (Read 13421 times)

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BikerDude

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« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 02:30:17 PM by BikerDude »

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The Guro

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 08:38:48 AM »
So by this i would expect that you would not welcome a muslim to the explore the Dudeism should they be so inclined?

Since from outward appearances it looks like a place that anyone wanting to be in a non-dogmatic and relaxed place could be free of bigotry?

I AM abiding,

Christian Dude
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"Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter... The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and atta-dude... Abiding."

RandoRock

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2016, 05:47:13 AM »
It's not that a Muslim wouldn't be welcomed into Dudeism, it's more that once a Muslim embraces Dudeism in the eyes of Allah they are no longer welcome into Islam. Islam is pretty much an all or nothing set of ideals. All the practicing Muslims I know, regardless of how modern, still hold on to idea that Islam is the one truth and anything else is wrong. Live and let live, take it easy, go with the flow are all ideas that most traditional religions don't embrace. It's ingrained into the teachings to try and convert the nonbelievers so that really doesn't leave much room in people for more than one belief system.

Of course there are always exceptions to every rule but in general if I were to walk up to a group of Christians, Muslims, or Jews and tell them that I'm Dudeist 99% of them would try and convert me.

The Guro

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2016, 03:12:03 AM »
Too true ;)

No need to convert a Dudeist in my opinion though... I see it as just the way we choose to walk our paths... not a spiritual belief excluding others. So they can stay a Dude and add some Jesus should they so choose... My job is to show people the Dude Jesus was... not the uptight view people claiming to follow him project.

It's like saying a Hollywood director has to be Jewish, whether not if matters if your Doctor is a Hindu... Or plays tennis. Being a Dudeist is 'what' and 'how' you do things... the 'why' can be many things... as long as they lead to abiding.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 03:15:23 AM by ChristianDude »
~ Rev/Guro Christian Dude

"Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter... The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and atta-dude... Abiding."

Hominid

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 09:30:34 PM »
Quote
My job is to show people the Dude Jesus was... not the uptight view people claiming to follow him project.

Matthew 10:34, John 15:6, Luke 12:47 (slavery is very undude - just sayin').






RandoRock

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 12:12:13 AM »
In theory your ideas about it are good, the problem is that most religions take the my way or the highway approach when it comes to other religions. This is especially true with the big three Abrahamic religions, they all pretty much frown upon practicing other religions.  After 3000 years of tradition most of them are pretty set in their ways, haha. Hell wouldn't it be something if Dudeism was the thing that could finally bring them all together? The common ground to end the centuries of conflict over whose version of the story is best. What a world that would be!

 

The Guro

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 02:07:53 AM »
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My job is to show people the Dude Jesus was... not the uptight view people claiming to follow him project.

Matthew 10:34 (you are at conflict with me and apparently every other Christian... so bingo. And that is your choice...)
John 15:6 (Yep... but you don't buy that stuff... so abide in yourself and see how it pans out for you. But you can't... can you? Obviously.)
Luke 12:47

The Troll doth speak!

Only Luke 12:47 could be stretched to imply slavery in the context your attempting... and that was a parable about an intentionally negligent servant not an endorsement of slavery. Slavery is alive today in the USA... You have debt? You're a slave... Being a Bond-Slave (Doulos) is also a whole different ball of wax than an unwilling servant/slave (if you understand it). For a supposed former man of ministry...

Who cares if it's "__ way or the highway", in the context of Dudeism no one cares about the punchline. I have a belief about it... you have a Nihilist belief about it... Neither should matter between two Dudes who are walking the Abiding path. This is not a religion concerned with answering those questions or even sweating them. Have you not read the materials?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 02:14:19 AM by ChristianDude »
~ Rev/Guro Christian Dude

"Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter... The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and atta-dude... Abiding."

RandoRock

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 04:37:29 AM »
My post wasn't about your beliefs or mine, it was about the acceptance of our beliefs by other religions, which is what we were talking about in the first place. Yes I've read the materials and your constant insinuation that anyone who might disagree with you is somehow less informed or doesn't understand Dudeism is starting to become tiresome. You say you aren't trying to push your beliefs yet you seem to have this need for everyone to buy into them, and if they don't you just start talking down to them like you're the smartest guy in the room. What part of that is Dude? Coming in spouting off bible quotes and berating anyone that doesn't respond with amen is about as undude as it gets. What part of Hominid's post makes him a troll? The fact that he posted bible quotes that contradict your belief on Jesus? That doesn't really seem like trolling, it seems like a difference of opinion and if you are going to post in an open forum you should learn to accept ones that differ from yours. Since you insist on talking bible passages here are a few of my favorites:


?1 Timothy 2:11-15  A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing?if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. Pfft Women, Am I right?

?2 Deuteronomy 2:33-2:34 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them?men, women and children. We left no survivors. Yeah get'em Moses, cleanse the non believers!


?1 Exodus 21: 20  Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. Eh, fair enough, right? But you're I can see how having modern day debt would be comparable.

Walk your path, co-exist, and make peace with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with your Christian ideals. People here disagree all the time about all sorts of different things and yet you seem to be the only one that has to resort to name calling and belittlement. Save that crap for your own website.

Hominid

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 11:35:19 AM »
RandoRock: Thanks for the backup Randoman...  This Christiandude is the troll, right? Spouting his BS.  I've got almost 2,000 posts and he has about 45.  Whose the troll?  Laughable man. Bush league bullshit.

Christiandude:  walking around here like a rooster with his chest puffed out isn't winning you any admiration or respect. In fact, we've seen your type come and go over the years, and just roll our collective eyes and sigh... "Here we go again".  You'd gain a whole helluva lot more points if you'd tone down the bible/christ stuff, and do away with the haughty pride. It's a REAL turn-off.



Brother D

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 01:49:02 PM »
In theory your ideas about it are good, the problem is that most religions take the my way or the highway approach when it comes to other religions. This is especially true with the big three Abrahamic religions, they all pretty much frown upon practicing other religions.  After 3000 years of tradition most of them are pretty set in their ways, haha. Hell wouldn't it be something if Dudeism was the thing that could finally bring them all together? The common ground to end the centuries of conflict over whose version of the story is best. What a world that would be!

I agree, as people have drawn influence from literally hundreds of religions to find meaning, or answers to life problems, without believing in the deity/ deities. Even the dalai lama, one of the most spirutual people of the world, looks to science for understanding, which does not compute to some faiths.

Wasn't religion born from a lack of explanation to the unexplained?, also, there wasn't the technological advances we have today, so the notion of interconnectedness, evolution and oneness with nature,was ridiculed by creationists (abrahamic, mostly).

The druids, shamans and other wise people from ages past, were labeled as witches and heretics for having different ways and beliefs, often hunted, tortured and killed for them.

If anything, practising dudeism, while "under the influence" of another faith, can be construed as idolatry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry

The idea, that dudeism, or some form of spiritual humanist thing could be the best way to get past all the "my God is the best" crap, is far out indeed.


The Guro

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2016, 04:20:35 PM »
RandoRock: I did not quote or reply to your post... nor did I reference you. I have not once in anyway inferred anyone needs to buy into my beliefs or even really stated them... definitely have never promoted them here outside of wanting to reference them as they are referred to in Dudeism as a contributing and pre-dating source. What's getting tiresome is restating that... over... and over. My quotations are only made in reference to principles found in Dudeism... Like many other religions and philosophies I have seen quoted here.

"The fact that he posted bible quotes that contradict your belief on Jesus? That doesn't really seem like trolling, it seems like a difference of opinion and if you are going to post in an open forum you should learn to accept ones that differ from yours."

Again... As per the information put out regarding Dudeism and my correspondence with the same, by the founder, I have not even reference my spiritual beliefs in any detail or my beliefs on Jesus, neither have I promoted them outside of their possible contributions to Dudeism. Only atheist antagonists have made efforts against the Christian faith here... I have not even belittled those in retaliation to numerous attempts at those who do so to me.

"Walk your path, co-exist, and make peace with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with your Christian ideals. People here disagree all the time about all sorts of different things and yet you seem to be the only one that has to resort to name calling and belittlement. Save that crap for your own website."

Are you referencing my calling Hominid a Troll? Look up the definition...

Quote
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.

his posts (and many others) are clear examples of that practice. He however has resorted to this: "Typical arrogant fuck."... sounds like he cast the first stone... Belittlement? Again... have you read the posts criticizing Theism and Christianity in particular? They abound.

"Since you insist on talking bible passages here are a few of my favorites:"

Again... (so tiring) I have not made Biblical references in any attempt to assert my beliefs, put down others, or in any way stipulate how they should live their lives. i wouldn't wast my time here with that since almost no one here recognizes it as a point of reference for how they should live their lives or acknowledges it or its "author". Only antagonists (antagnostics... add that to the dictionary :)) have used the Bible to attack others or a belief system here in these forums during my time here. But since you insist on not understanding them I will address the ones you misused:

1 Timothy 2:11-15 You no what... forget it... Do your own home work(http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/should-women-be-silent-in-the-church-a-biblical-study-of-1-corinthians-1434-and-35. I am not here to defend, explain, or promote the Christian faith (something people are not supposed to do here... or the inverse of attacking other faiths as is COMPLETELY EVIDENT TO BE OCCURRING. You people are not disagreeing with a post... or a comment... you are initiating criticism, ridicule, and putting down other beliefs... Figure that shit out... are you not able to comprehend the truth of this?


Hominid:
Quote
"Thanks for the backup Randoman...  This Christiandude is the troll, right? Spouting his BS.  I've got almost 2,000 posts and he has about 45.  Whose the troll?  Laughable man. Bush league bullshit."

"tone down the bible/christ stuff, and do away with the haughty pride. It's a REAL turn-off."

The abundance of your posts and the bigotry they illustrate.. do not serve to defend your position. Neither does the assertions you have made in them build any defense against my accusations... Your guilty as charged by an abundance of evidence.

What many of you are really bitching about is the fact that anyone is responding to your misconduct in any way other than consensus. Which is precisely what you are accusing me of (much to my amusement) doing. The critical problem with that false accusation is the fact that I have not initiated any posts asserting anything that any of you have disagreed with in promotion of Christianity or my views on it. YOU initiated unsolicited, off-topic, inflammatory posts against that faith (see definition of "Troll").

Dudeism, taken as it has been defined in its own writings, while technically a "Religion" for all intents and purposes in the loosely defined view of the US Courts, Tax regulations, and other administrative/regulatory bodies... is a "Way of Life" that neither accepts or rejects spirituality or other faiths.

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"All that proselytizing and converting, condemning and prosecuting, crusading and jihading that some of our compeers in the world's Big Beliefskis go through to feed the bull-dogma... well, it all just seems exhausting."

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Q: Is there a God in Dudeism?

A: Like Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism, Dudeism is a non-theistic religion. That isn?t to say Dudeists necessarily don?t believe in God or a godlike power in the universe, only that passing judgment on this issue is not one of Dudeism?s goals. Like the Eastern religions just mentioned, Dudeism is interested in the here and now, not the there and then. The Dudeist objective is to make our lives more pleasant and meaningful to ourselves and each other.

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Dudeism, on the other hand, takes the essential messages of all the world religions and simplifies them, purging them of all their dogma and superstitions, leaving only the easygoing, useful and fortifying parts. Moreover, one can be a Dudeist and still remain a Christian, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu, etc. Dudeism isn?t a strict system ? it?s more of a method of living, a state of mind. In order to keep your mind limber, Dudeism needs to remain limber as well.

I have been in complete alignment with these things... I am not (again) referencing, promoting, or otherwise even bringing up Christianity outside of what lends itself to Dudeism. Anything else you are bringing to the table is your own mess of private interpretation, reading between the lines, and other reactionary crap you've emotionally projected onto me. I am simply not 'abiding' this 'aggression that will not stand' that you guys are putting out that does not align with the Dudeist philosophy.

Quote
Q: Is Dudeism a real religion?

A: Although Dudeism makes use of a lot of humor and satire, we are totally serious in our belief that it is ?the religion for its time and place.? Or, we?re as serious as anyone can be about a ?belief.? One of the core tenets of Dudeism is that everything is ?just, like, your opinion, man? and so everything has to be up for debate. Unlike other religions, we?re open to suggestions. In this way, Dudeism could be considered an ?open source religion.? We invite other people to tell us what they think is ?dude? or ?undude.?

I am calling "undude" opinions (often presented as truths/facts) circulating and being promoted on this forum... That in the most obvious way go against many of the above quoted Dudeist references. There is no way to state 'my opinion' any more succinctly and supported by the references I made.
~ Rev/Guro Christian Dude

"Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter... The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and atta-dude... Abiding."

RandoRock

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 04:44:08 PM »
RandoRock: Thanks for the backup Randoman...  This Christiandude is the troll, right? Spouting his BS.  I've got almost 2,000 posts and he has about 45.  Whose the troll?  Laughable man. Bush league bullshit.

Christiandude:  walking around here like a rooster with his chest puffed out isn't winning you any admiration or respect. In fact, we've seen your type come and go over the years, and just roll our collective eyes and sigh... "Here we go again".  You'd gain a whole helluva lot more points if you'd tone down the bible/christ stuff, and do away with the haughty pride. It's a REAL turn-off.

I'm happy to back you up, Man. This guy is pulling on my inner Walter something fierce, probably more than I should let him but he is taking all the worst parts of Christianity (something I hate) and throwing them all over Dudeism (something I love) so it's hard to just sit quietly while that happens.

ChristianDude: Actually you did reference me with your "__way or the highway" comment so I'm really sure what the fuck you're talking about when you say you didn't. All I'm going to say is this, if everyone in the room is telling you that your the problem...maybe your the problem.

The Guro

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 05:19:39 PM »
RandoRock: Thanks for the backup Randoman...  This Christiandude is the troll, right? Spouting his BS.  I've got almost 2,000 posts and he has about 45.  Whose the troll?  Laughable man. Bush league bullshit.

Christiandude:  walking around here like a rooster with his chest puffed out isn't winning you any admiration or respect. In fact, we've seen your type come and go over the years, and just roll our collective eyes and sigh... "Here we go again".  You'd gain a whole helluva lot more points if you'd tone down the bible/christ stuff, and do away with the haughty pride. It's a REAL turn-off.

I'm happy to back you up, Man. This guy is pulling on my inner Walter something fierce, probably more than I should let him but he is taking all the worst parts of Christianity (something I hate) and throwing them all over Dudeism (something I love) so it's hard to just sit quietly while that happens.

ChristianDude: Actually you did reference me with your "__way or the highway" comment so I'm really sure what the fuck you're talking about when you say you didn't. All I'm going to say is this, if everyone in the room is telling you that your the problem...maybe your the problem.

Whoa! Give me one example of:

Quote
he is taking all the worst parts of Christianity (something I hate) and throwing them all over Dudeism (something I love)

You are delusional... Please... give me an example of something I have posted that represents "the worst parts of Christianity"... Or even Christianity for that matter (outside of referencing Dudeism supporting things). I have very intentionally not referenced Christian doctrine, in and of itself, in a very methodical manner to stay within the bounds of Dudeism and its lack of interest in things meta-physical.

i won't beat this horse any more... You have nothing to complain about regarding me pushing anything about Christianity on this board that anyone can object to outside my assertions (drawn directly from Dudeist materials) that it has contributions and aspects that support Dudeism. Burden of proof is on you if your claiming otherwise. The world can see what happens here and it will reflect on Dudeism. We are the face of it. I am being forced to defend Dudeism stated position on other religions and belief systems and that it (and what should be it's participants) doesn't abide attacking them... Or even care about their beliefs regarding Deities, afterlife, or other meta-physical meanderings (none of which I am promoting or even mentioning).

You just don't like the fact that someone who is a Christian sees any value, or has any interest in Dudeism, and promoting it in the context of contributing to a better Christian walk is actively here and calling "undude" on the unchecked aggression that has been allowed to 'abide' here. You are of the 'opinion' that it is not possible for a Christian to be a Dude if they are actually a Christian... and offended that anyone is saying there is anything Dude-like about Christianity or Jesus. I haven't even begun to make those references (I made one forum topic/post).

You are creating an image of who I am, what I do or do not believe, and what I am doing here that simply does not exist... The very definition of a "knee-jerk" reaction. While attributing to me the very actions that others are guilty of here on this forum. In effect saying... Christians are not welcome if they have a problem with people bashing their belief system here ro in any way referencing theirs (even in the context of Dudeism).

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All I'm going to say is this, if everyone in the room is telling you that your the problem...maybe your the problem.

All I'm going to say is this, if everyone in the room is telling me that I'm the problem... maybe I am the only Christian in the room and everyone else is a God-hating hypocrite that doesn't really practice what Dudeism preaches regarding other faiths and the fact that others are welcome and included in Dudeism. I am not trying to appear to be the smartest guy in the room as you have said... I just tend to not look like the dumbest... and those making assertions of opinions as facts or attempting to bait me, don't fair to well when I respond.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 05:45:39 PM by ChristianDude »
~ Rev/Guro Christian Dude

"Dudeism is the outward expression of how we interact with the world and the dudes we encounter... The inner way we ruminate and allow things to affect our lives and atta-dude... Abiding."

Hominid

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 06:26:58 PM »
Quote
All I'm going to say is this, if everyone in the room is telling me that I'm the problem... maybe I am the only Christian in the room and everyone else is a God-hating hypocrite

Now you're a martyr.  Too funny. (I saw it coming...) So no, we're not god-hating hypocrites.  Just you saying that puts you squarely in the midst of atheist-hating, reactionary bible thumpers.  Sorry, but it's a pattern we see in this'a here forum...

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that doesn't really practice what Dudeism preaches regarding other faiths and the fact that others are welcome and included in Dudeism.

There's lots of other faiths represented by various Dudeists, but the ones that get along aren't zealots.  Your finger-pointing and judgements are really getting tiresome.  Your words say you're doing nothing but practicing Dudeism, but your emotional reactions say otherwise. In spades.




Brother D

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Re: Hichens on Islam
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2016, 06:35:53 PM »
Ah Fuck it!  *slides on shades*

 

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