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Author Topic: Brief primer on Humanism  (Read 35600 times)

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Masked Dude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 03:40:13 PM »
I like some of the ideas of Humanism but also wonder about the motives of most people. Until we have that family of man notion, no philosophy or religion will do us much good. Just my opinion.

I turned my back on religions because none of them made much sense to me and many (if not most) of the diehard followers ignore what religions teach. Humanism may have lofty goals, too, and like many have said, if only a relative few give a shit then the world in general won't benefit.

So all we can do is be good people and hope others do the same one day regardless of religion and philosophy.

I'm not religious, humanist, or really anything. I'm just me.
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A Stoned Buddha

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 04:34:37 PM »
I like some of the ideas of Humanism but also wonder about the motives of most people. Until we have that family of man notion, no philosophy or religion will do us much good. Just my opinion.

I turned my back on religions because none of them made much sense to me and many (if not most) of the diehard followers ignore what religions teach. Humanism may have lofty goals, too, and like many have said, if only a relative few give a shit then the world in general won't benefit.

So all we can do is be good people and hope others do the same one day regardless of religion and philosophy.

I'm not religious, humanist, or really anything. I'm just me.
Fucking- A right, man!

BrotherShamus

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2013, 09:03:58 PM »
Well they've all got good ideas, but people will always either corrupt them on purpose or take everything as truth instead of searching for the meaning. Can't have faith without doubt.
"Be excellent to each other"             

RighteousDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 10:20:09 PM »
All of the Humanists I've known have been righteous. I like 'em a lot. Their feet are on the ground and they stand squarely over them just like they belong there.

Kurt Vonnegut was a Humanist. Fucking Albert Einstein was a Humanist, though the pantheists (of which I am one) lay claim to the dude, too. The really fucking great scientists of the last 150 years or so are/were all or mostly all Humanists, and the great thinkers in other realms are well represented on the rolls, too. Noam Chomsky is among them.

... or the founding fathers. Driven by Ideals.

The founding fathers? Like of the United States? Those fucking guys, living in a world informed by the Age of Enlightenment which was in full swing at the time, wrote a constitution that included not one human right, only property rights. It was a rich man's constitution, and the Bill of Rights got tacked on later only because their constitution would not have been ratified without it.  Their only ideal was wealth.

I wrote before about John Adams and his defense of the British troops who murdered colonists in the Boston Massacre. A founding father. As the second president of the US, he signed the Sedition Act into law in 1798. The Sedition Act made it a crime, punishable by fines and imprisonment, to criticize the government. Ideals? Not that fucking guy. Well, unless you count commitment to personal wealth and power as an ideal. He had that in spades.

Can't have faith without doubt.

Humanism is not faith.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 10:34:52 PM by RighteousDude »
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DigitalBuddha

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 01:32:46 AM »
All this brings up the question; is Dudeism a form of Humanism?

Rev. Gary (revgms)

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 06:39:20 AM »
The Humanists I have talked to say yes, Dudeism is like Humanism.

DigitalBuddha

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2013, 07:03:18 AM »
The Humanists I have talked to say yes, Dudeism is like Humanism.

I would say I agree.

RighteousDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2013, 07:11:25 AM »
Is Dudeism a form of Humanism? Hmmm. Does Dudeism require that its adherents flatly reject the notion of invisible space monsters? Does Dudeism have as one of its purposes making the world a better place for others, and other species? I gotta ask because I ain't real sure. But if those two things are true, then it could be said that Dudeism and Humanism are in unstated agreement.
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Rev. Gary (revgms)

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 08:08:23 AM »
Well, Dudeism doesn't really require adherents to believe or not believe in meta-physical things, but it also does not promote any meta-physics. Humanism states it is atheistic, not anti-theistic, but they demand evidence so they are de-facto anti-theists. We Dudeists just don't know dude, but we follow the threads and investigate. I see no reason these two should be mutually exclusive in this regard.

I also think Dudeism does have a component of being for the betterment of others (other species included), otherwise why would we take it easy for all those sinners out there?

BikerDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2013, 08:53:51 AM »
Well they've all got good ideas, but people will always either corrupt them on purpose or take everything as truth instead of searching for the meaning. Can't have faith without doubt.

I'm always puzzled by the concept of faith as being a "good" thing.
It's like saying self delusion is a good thing.


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BikerDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2013, 09:06:11 AM »
I think that Humanism is more general than actually constituting an ethos.
It is more like theist.
Few people classify themselves as theist. They call themselves Catholic, Jewish, Protestant etc..
I'm not sure I've met anyone who would self apply the term Humanist as a general self description.
Most would probably use the term atheist or agnostic but in the general climate of "feel good" middle class religion in the developed world I think that many if not most people who classify themselves as Catholic (for instance) would, without a hint of irony, call themselves humanists. And if not calling themselves humanists they would agree with the central propositions.  It's because of the "sloppy" religion that we tend to practice. We call ourselves something but just ignore all the difficult parts.
The reality is that if you call yourself a Catholic or Protestant or Jew or whatever your morality lies with your God.
God told Abraham kill me a son.
If God commands it then it is so. PERIOD. And that is unsurprising. If you believe that he exists is all powerful and the creator of absolutely everything, If you really do believe that (most don't just like the idea of a happy loving old man) then where would anyone get off ignoring any of his commands? Once you go down the theist path you agree that God's will is utmost and unquestionable. (for anything short of the wishy washy deist nonsense)
So by not murdering your neighbor for not obeying the sabbath you are a sinner. And like it our not there is NO official renunciation of any of these commands that we see in Deuteronomy for instance. ALL of these things are still officially the doctrine of the church.
In a deist religion you put your faith in that God. And you simply don't get to pick and choose.
There are rules. This isn't Nam.
But we like to think of the God played by George Burns in Oh God. It's kozy and happy.



A few at random...

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)  Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). 
If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)
If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death.  (Leviticus 20:14)
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death.  (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake.  (Leviticus 21:9)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.  (Leviticus 24:14-16)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:30:01 AM by BikerDude »

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Hominid

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2013, 10:43:04 AM »
Well, there are some people that do indeed consider it a religion; some of those that penned the original Humanist Manifesto. Interesting shit dude:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto



RighteousDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2013, 01:38:58 PM »
Well, there are some people that do indeed consider it a religion; some of those that penned the original Humanist Manifesto. Interesting shit dude:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto

Humanist Manifesto III states in its opening sentence: "Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.", emphasis mine. That's what I'm going with, not because it fits my argument, but because things do change over time. Even xtianity has changed over time as various rulers have rewritten the New Testament to suit their aims. And these days there are dozens of version of the damned thing.

Ennyhoo, I'm really not trying to be contrary. Maybe it's just a natural talent?  ;D
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BikerDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 01:48:09 PM »
Well, there are some people that do indeed consider it a religion; some of those that penned the original Humanist Manifesto. Interesting shit dude:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto



From the council for secular humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=what_is

Quote
Secular humanism is a comprehensive, nonreligious lifestance incorporating:

    ?  A naturalistic philosophy
    ?  A cosmic outlook rooted in science
    ?  A consequentialist ethical system

Let's examine these items one by one:
A comprehensive, nonreligious lifestance.

Secular humanism is comprehensive, touching every aspect of life including issues of values, meaning, and identity. Thus it is broader than atheism, which concerns only the nonexistence of god or the supernatural. Important as that may be, there?s a lot more to life ? and secular humanism addresses it.

Secular humanism is nonreligious, espousing no belief in a realm or beings imagined to transcend ordinary experience.

Secular humanism is a lifestance, or what Council for Secular Humanism founder Paul Kurtz has termed a eupraxsophy: a body of principles suitable for orienting a complete human life.

A naturalistic philosophy.

Secular humanism is philosophically naturalistic. It holds that nature (the world of everyday physical experience) is all there is, and that reliable knowledge is best obtained when we query nature using the scientific method. Naturalism asserts that supernatural entities like God do not exist, and warns us that knowledge gained without appeal to the natural world and without impartial review by multiple observers is unreliable.

A cosmic outlook rooted in science.

Secular humanism provides a cosmic outlook?a world-view in the broadest sense, grounding our lives in the context of our universe and relying on methods demonstrated by science. Secular humanists see themselves as undesigned, unintended beings who arose through evolution, possessing unique attributes of self-awareness and moral agency.

A consequentialist ethical system.

Secular humanists hold that ethics is consequential, to be judged by results. This is in contrast to so-called command ethics, in which right and wrong are defined in advance and attributed to divine authority. ?No god will save us,? declared Humanist Manifesto II (1973), ?we must save ourselves.? Secular humanists seek to develop and improve their ethical principles by examining the results they yield in the lives of real men and women.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 01:57:27 PM by BikerDude »

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BikerDude

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Re: Brief primer on Humanism
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2013, 02:13:32 PM »

The founding fathers? Like of the United States? Those fucking guys, living in a world informed by the Age of Enlightenment which was in full swing at the time, wrote a constitution that included not one human right, only property rights. It was a rich man's constitution, and the Bill of Rights got tacked on later only because their constitution would not have been ratified without it.  Their only ideal was wealth.


Kirk was reading the Declaration of Independence. Written by Jefferson.
I'd point to the "Jeffeson Humanist Society"
http://jefferson-society.com/
I'd say that the founding fathers were motivated by the principles that became Humanism even if imperfectly.
Simply the fact that most of them identified as Deists. Not believing in a personal or involved deity.
That changes everything...
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=values
Quote
...the moral consequences of believing the universe not to be guided by a personal god to whom petitionary prayer can be addressed are huge. That is why it is so inadequate to call oneself solely an atheist; one needs some sort of description for what motivates one's behavior afterwards."
- Bill Cooke
Secular humanist author and activist

I'd have to say that Humanism is a philosophy.
Few people would for instance call themselves an existentialist (unless they were writers or philosophers. )
It's more a description than an identity. It informs our other identities.
Most people I know who identify as atheist are humanists.
Of course we do have the Nihilists in the movie so that theory goes all to shit with them.

The Humanist Magazine.
http://thehumanist.org/

Good article on "Prohibition & Humanism".
http://thehumanist.org/march-april-2013/prohibition-humanism/
I love this
Quote
The United States saw its fair share of religiously motivated moral legislation in the early twentieth century, when Evangelical Protestant churches and religious fundamentalists pushed for the prohibition of alcohol, intent on removing this "evil" from society. The Rev. Mark Matthews, a leading figure in the temperance movement, famously noted, "The saloon is the most fiendish, corrupt, hell-soaked institution that ever crawled out of the slime of the eternal pit. It takes your sweet innocent daughter, robs her of her virtue, and transforms her into a brazen, wanton harlot. It is the open sore of this land." With the ensuing ratification of the Eighteenth Amendment in 1919, religious conservatives believed that God's will had been done, and that the United States had succeeded in taking a bold step towards achieving heaven on earth.

Hell yeah! Sounds like my kind of watering hole!
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 02:36:11 PM by BikerDude »

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