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Author Topic: Shit we need to kick around  (Read 46427 times)

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cakebelly

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Shit we need to kick around
« on: February 09, 2011, 10:13:15 AM »
There is a thread on the Facebook that is dealing with the accusation that Dudeism is just another phallocentric religion. Here's the link: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/02/yet_another_patriarchal_faith.php

Will come back and comment on this soon.

cakebelly

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 11:30:34 AM »
IMO: The problem in kicking-around in a religion/club/hobby called 'Dudeism" is, of course, that people will automatically assume that it's a men's/guy's/chap's club. Dude, in the parlance of our times, means man, does it not? In the beginning was the word and the word was Dude.

Let me digress (slightly) for awhile: I have neighbours, oh yeah man, Cake has neighbours, I am (somewhat unwillingly) part of this here community. Anyway, one side we have some fucked-up Christians (scream and fight all the time, physical violence, kids are never allowed outside the house to play) but on the other side we have a noisy, cleft-asshole, functional alcoholic: he's a Dude. He refers to all his mates/pals as "Dude" - when they get together (and they frequently do) it sounds like a tourette syndrome club meeting: "fuck Dude, I put the fuckin' donkey-flange on the wrong fuckin' way, Dude" - well, y'know the type of thing. He's just trying to get by, in the great scheme of things, he's okay, for an asshole (and we are all assholes to someone). To him and to most other folk 'dude" means 'man', 'guy', 'bud'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'Dude' means something else . . something more, to us, doesn't it?

How do we (if in fact, we should bother at all)  go about making that word our own? Will it just come in time - as the movement grows? Will people feel the need to clarify themselves in everyday conversation: : "Hey, you know that Dude with the fast spin?" - "Uh, that Dudeist, you mean?".
 I don't know, Dudes - I think the word has been out there too long, it's part of the American psyche, now - it may always be a neurolinguistic stumbling block. Which is a fuckin' shame because, obviously, in the greater wide world, Dude is a gender exclusive term.

The issue of gender nomenclature keeps popping up on these boards, too. Although I wasn't an active poster at the time, there is  (maybe  someone can enlighten me) a thread, somewhere, that deals with the issue. The first step - at least among ourselves - is to get over our NL programming and start referring to female Dudes as Dudes: no more Dudettes, please. If we want to shake-off the charge of being just another phallocentric waste of space then we have to start with that issue. (Perhaps, then, we can actually start getting some women on the forum).

                          

It is not surprising, then, that the movement will, on first impression, be considered patriarchal. That's before we even get to the movie . . okay, let's go to the movie. Some Dude (on FB) commented that the women portrayed in the movie (para-phrasing) are: 'strong - and affect change". Is this true?
Maude is something of a cold-fish, has her own agenda, is in charge of her life (and in charge of the lives of others); that's cool, yes she is a strong role model, I guess. Bunny speaks for herself: pure hedonist, nuff said. Outside the gender issue they are avatars of the human condition: they do not represent anything that cannot be represented by a male character (okay, Vaginas, okay, okay the conception of the Little Lebowski, but that's it). Vaginas, Dudes. As far as I'm concerned (right here, right now) all characters in TBL may as well be representations of the voices in some Dude's head. Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that if we are looking for a positive female counter-balance to the Dude's persona where are we gonna find it? Is it Maude, if so, why?  


Apart from the obvious reason why.

For me, the issue resides in the lodges of our minds: we are looking for avatars/hierophants/archetypes in a movie (and therefore the movement) that are imperfect human beings to begin with (whatever perfect is). Sub-consciously or otherwise we seem to be doomed to continually separate ourselves into two camps (and maybe a third one for the camp Dudes who ain't sure). Why? Because that's the way it has always been? Because the feminine and masculine must be negotiated differently? Gods and Goddesses; all well and good. However, the best way to get a glimpse of the feminine is to talk to women as equals and for the women to talk to men as equals; without all their pre-conceptions of gender assignment. Human Dudes - let Dudeism purge all that creaky old shit. What separates us in nature should not divide us on the Lanes.  Do we really need male-female icons to hang our hats on? Are we not  - or trying to be - just Dudes? In short: it doesn't matter what fuckin' gender you are, just be a human being, just be Dude. It's okay, Dudes,, we can still shag each other senseless.

Idea for countering the gender-issue in Dudeism:

Well, I guess we could put it about that DL is an honest to goodness hermaphrodite. Get him (her, sorry - no erm . . ) to start growing his/her hair long Paramahansa Yogananda style. He certainly sports the knees to help pull it off.

       
Maybe we could have an annual event where Dudes cross-dress? Not sure about that one - events where people all dress the same always freak me out: which is why I guess I'll never make it to a Lebowski Fest. Anyway, Dudes . . it's your roll.




 ;)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 01:10:17 PM by cakebelly »

cakebelly

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 01:09:58 PM »
I should add that I have nothing against gender-specific clubs - I just don't want to be in one.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 01:46:46 PM by cakebelly »

cckeiser

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 02:52:31 PM »
The original meaning of Dude has changed to now mean almost it's opposite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude
From a fancy dressed city fop to a laid back person who is not a dick by nature.
That doesn't mean don't be a dick as in...rod...johnson...(or does it?), but don't be a dick as in dickwad asshole douchebag dick dickhead loser douche idiot jerk prick retard moron tool shithead fuck cunt fucker dumbass bastard fuckhead wanker asswipe!
(from: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dickwad)
Our purpose is no(t) to emasculate the male dude, or masculate the gentle feminine dude, but to degender the the meaning of the term Dude itself. To make it self-applicable to either gender equally and without prejudice.  
As with yourself rev cakebelly, this decision was agreed upon before my arrival, and I had no say, but it is one I can embrace without reservation. It is a Dudely endeavor and one worthy of support.
But that is just like our opinion dudes, and far be it for us to strip anyone; male or female from self-applying the Dudette or Dudess nomenclature if that is their desire.
After all what is a Dude anyway in this whole durned human comedy?
But I believe the rev meekon5 put it best with his post on the new bible:

After all, what is a Dude? Well mang, a Dude is not a Dick! 8)





« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 02:47:09 AM by cckeiser »
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cakebelly

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 03:09:47 PM »
I ain't fer sure that's the case, man; I have yet to hear a woman refer to another as a Dude. Maybe I'm not mixing the cocktail of my life as I should. I would like to think it's so but - from my experience - Dude is still used  as a generic term for a chap*. Nice use of the British street-parlance "wanker", there. CC.  I don't know why but I am all in favour of W words.  8)

*Edit: among the general populace, that is.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 03:12:10 PM by cakebelly »

cckeiser

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 03:49:23 PM »
Well cakebelly dude, it's like we just got started. It may take awhile for the whole idea to catch on. It's like that sometimes. 8)

Yeah, I like the term "wanker" as well. Think I first heard it used in a movie called The Commitments
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/

Loved the music! 8)
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cakebelly

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 05:08:00 PM »
Yeah, good little movie saw it a couple of weeks ago (again) in fact.  8)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 07:22:46 PM by cakebelly »

meekon5

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 08:56:51 PM »
I will admit I was around when we where discussing gender politics and the "Dude" word. Can't find links to that discussion at the moment. (Am off work ill so slightly more dysfunctional than usual).

My first term of reference has to be:

Quote from:
A dude is an individual, typically male, particularly somebody well dressed or who has never lived outside a big city. The female equivalent, which is used less often, is "dudette" or "dudess". However, "dude" has evolved to become more unisex to encompass all genders,[3] and this was true even in the 1950s.[4]

I am also probably the first to jump on the soap box about the misuse of the "Dudette" word.

I actually studied the modern French feminists who unlike their American and UK counterparts went in for the study of language and followed Barte and Lacan, people like Kristeva. All who work with the premise that language having been in control of the masculine for thousands of years it is essentially misogynist in nature, it is only at the edges of language where the structurue and limitation break down that the feminine breaks through.

Sorry I lost the plot there for a minute.

I especially like the idea that an Actor is a person of either gender that acts.

I think it is up to us to ensure that the usage changes to "Dude" for either sex.

(all IMHO as usual)

I am also interested that the original article does not expand on his argument, it is just one line. Also it only references a CNN article so is a third party reference.
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and  that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Stephen Hawking

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

meekon5

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2011, 08:59:26 PM »
...Yeah, I like the term "wanker" as well. Think I first heard it used in a movie called The Commitments
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/

Loved the music! 8)

Went to Leicester square especially to see this. Still love it now.
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and  that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Stephen Hawking

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

cckeiser

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 10:08:34 PM »
...Yeah, I like the term "wanker" as well. Think I first heard it used in a movie called The Commitments
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/

Loved the music! 8)


Went to Leicester square especially to see this. Still love it now.

Yeah, now that it got me thinking about it, I would like to watch The Commitments again. Will have to see if it's out on dvd. No longer have my VHS...well I have it, but it stopped working about a year ago.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 10:28:28 PM by cckeiser »
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cakebelly

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 01:16:56 AM »
Hope you feel better soon M5  8)

meekon5

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 04:49:58 AM »
...Yeah, I like the term "wanker" as well. Think I first heard it used in a movie called The Commitments
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/

Loved the music! 8)


Went to Leicester square especially to see this. Still love it now.

Yeah, now that it got me thinking about it, I would like to watch The Commitments again. Will have to see if it's out on dvd. No longer have my VHS...well I have it, but it stopped working about a year ago.


I still actually have my families old Betamax video recorder.

I never bought into the video thing (saw they wore out too quickly and where easily damaged). But have really bought into the DVD thing, much better format, more durable (they do still wear out eventually).

Commitments DVD (tech details):

UK version (region 2) GBP 3.99.

Unfortunately I am really good at finding stuff for UK prices (my 42 inch HD, 1080p, TV  cost me GBP 400) but don't really have the tools for US so best I can find is:

US version (region 1) 2 disk $22.49

Scratch that, try this:

The Commitments (1991) $8.99. Doh followed the link from the tech spec page.

Sorry about the GPB (Great British Pound) I can't find an asci insert (asci 0163 = British pound).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 05:59:40 AM by meekon5 »
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and  that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Stephen Hawking

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

meekon5

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 05:13:39 AM »
Hope you feel better soon M5  8)

It's probably my post xmas pre birthday malaise. Birthday middle of this month. It being close to Valentines day I get really arsy about the pressure put on just before my birthday. And it also may stem from my Dad making jokes about my birthday cards possibly being Valentines cards. It's amazing how well (and how easily) you can scar your children psychologically with a little throw away phrase. Half the problem was probably they never were when I really wanted them to be, and I was upset they would be when  I didn't want them to be.

Parents you have to love them.

;D
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and  that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Stephen Hawking

Where are you Dude? Place your pin @ http://tinyurl.com/dudemap

cakebelly

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 12:55:44 PM »
Yeah, I usually feel somewhat down a week or so before the old Solar Return; playing with my new Kindle soon chased the blues away. Valentine's Day seems to be a bigger deal over here. Just finished knocking out a few: my daughters expect one (also Busmum, of course) but they are not allowed to give them out at school unless every kid gets one - currently there are 24 kids in their class. Sheesh!

cckeiser

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Re: Shit we need to kick around
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2011, 02:15:31 PM »
...Yeah, I like the term "wanker" as well. Think I first heard it used in a movie called The Commitments
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/

Loved the music! 8)


Went to Leicester square especially to see this. Still love it now.

Yeah, now that it got me thinking about it, I would like to watch The Commitments again. Will have to see if it's out on dvd. No longer have my VHS...well I have it, but it stopped working about a year ago.


I still actually have my families old Betamax video recorder.

I never bought into the video thing (saw they wore out too quickly and where easily damaged). But have really bought into the DVD thing, much better format, more durable (they do still wear out eventually).

Commitments DVD (tech details):

UK version (region 2) GBP 3.99.

Unfortunately I am really good at finding stuff for UK prices (my 42 inch HD, 1080p, TV  cost me GBP 400) but don't really have the tools for US so best I can find is:

US version (region 1) 2 disk $22.49

Scratch that, try this:

The Commitments (1991) $8.99. Doh followed the link from the tech spec page.

Sorry about the GPB (Great British Pound) I can't find an asci insert (asci 0163 = British pound).

Well Thankee meekon5 dude! That was very thoughtful of ya. Yep, I found it on that amazon site for 8.99 or something like that as well, but ended up renting it from one of the mail order video rental places. May end up buying it after all, but so far all the dvd movies we have bought just sit there collecting dust after a showing or two, so I am a bit reluctant to spring for yet another dust collector...ever a great one like The Commitments.

Once again I am impressed with how our word associations work. Discussing the Dude/Dudette controversy lead to dick which lead to dickwad which lead to wanker which lead to The Commitments which lead to Maria Doyle Kennedy which led me to The Tutors and Queen Katherine of Aragon!
Cool! 8)

 
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Please...Do No Harm
http://donoharm.us

 

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