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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: BikerDude on June 17, 2014, 10:15:53 AM

Title: Nothing ever changes
Post by: BikerDude on June 17, 2014, 10:15:53 AM
F'in Nazi's.

(http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/12/23/ap118362008024_wide-227c1d906393b2e6dd969d0e4712018b7b8f5c69-s4-c85.jpg)

Quote
All over India, an unusual name has been popping up on signs in restaurants and businesses: Hitler.

Yes, Hitler. As in Adolph. Just last year there was even a Punjabi movie called Hero Hitler in Love.

To understand why a name generally associated with mass murder is turning up on storefronts around the country, reporter David Shaftel investigated and wrote about it in a recent issue of .

He tells weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz that he first started to notice the Hitler fascination when he'd pass booksellers around Mumbai.

"Mein Kampf and some various other biographies of Hitler ... are displayed rather prominently," Shaftel says. "Because these guys know what sells."

It's easy enough to spot swastikas anywhere in India ? they're a Hindu symbol. The Nazis reversed the image when they made it their sign. "Every now and then, you see one that's the Nazi symbol ? that's clearly the Nazi symbol," Shaftel says. "It's something you notice."
"We are popular because of the name," Hitler co-owner Rajesh Shah said. "Our customers were not upset about the name."

"We are popular because of the name," Hitler co-owner Rajesh Shah said. "Our customers were not upset about the name."
Ajit Solanki/AP

"But I'm not sure people know that, and I think that's where some of the affinity ? or at least the curiosity in Hitler comes from," Shaftel says. Hitler not only appropriated the swastika ? the term Aryan comes from the subcontinent.

More curious for westerners might be the lack of outrage associated with the name. While the better educated classes know some European history, they're a pretty small percentage of India's vast population. "There's no sense in the community that people might be upset by this ? and most of the outrage comes from foreign countries," Shaftel says.

As for the movie, Hitler is the nickname of the main character ? who has a horrible temper. "Anyone who's a bit bossy, a bit of a jerk, is nicknamed Hitler," Shaftel explains. "And this makes its way into popular culture. There's a soap opera that runs in India called Hitler Didi, which translates as "Big Sister Hitler" ? and again, she's a bit cantankerous."

Yet there's no anti-Semitism intended in using the name. Indians just think Hitler was a strong guy ? and kind of a curmudgeon. Also, Shaftel points out, when Hitler's campaign in World War II weakened Britain, it also expedited Indian independence.

Meanwhile, word does sometimes spread of Hitler's true nature. Since controversy hit the Hitler clothing store in Ahmadabad, they've started displaying a Gandhi t-shirt in the window.

Dude?
(http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0701/360_hitler0112.jpg)
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: DigitalBuddha on June 17, 2014, 05:54:18 PM
 ;D Hitler not happy................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4Bui5dpOM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4Bui5dpOM)
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: BikerDude on June 19, 2014, 07:44:38 AM
Somehow I find it sort of funny that in India people see Hitler as just sort of a "grouch".
A Walter really.
The world is just treading water. Treading fucking water.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: Stumblin Stumbleweed on June 24, 2014, 09:17:48 AM
Somehow I find it sort of funny that in India people see Hitler as just sort of a "grouch".
A Walter really.
The world is just treading water. Treading fucking water.
Yeah, last time I was in Delhi, maybe six or seven years ago, I was shocked to see piles of copies of Mein Kampf for sale at several news & book stalls in Connaught Place.
Treading water? I sure hope that's water.
Jesus, what's that smell, man?
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: meekon5 on June 26, 2014, 08:03:30 AM
Somehow I find it sort of funny that in India people see Hitler as just sort of a "grouch".
A Walter really.
The world is just treading water. Treading fucking water.
Yeah, last time I was in Delhi, maybe six or seven years ago, I was shocked to see piles of copies of Mein Kampf for sale at several news & book stalls in Connaught Place.
Treading water? I sure hope that's water.
Jesus, what's that smell, man?

As some of the related articles suggest Hitler had very little effect in India and was instrumental (indirectly) in India getting it's independence. So they would have a different point of view on him.

I am all for Mein Kampf being sold. I have a copy myself (I studied modern history as part of my degree, the two wars and the inter war period).

I think everyone should read it at some time, if just to see what a complete pile of shite it really is. It's the disjointed ranting of a complete nut job.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: Stumblin Stumbleweed on June 26, 2014, 01:35:45 PM
I read the first couple of chapters a few years ago, it made absolutely no sense whatever, like random words had been pulled from a bag and thrown onto the pages.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: BikerDude on June 26, 2014, 03:24:27 PM
Turns out Hitler is a hit in Japan also.
A manga version of mein kampf

http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi (http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi)

(http://observers.france24.com/files/images/manga%20-%20planche%20-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: jgiffin on June 26, 2014, 07:45:41 PM
I am all for Mein Kampf being sold. I have a copy myself (I studied modern history as part of my degree, the two wars and the inter war period).

I think everyone should read it at some time, if just to see what a complete pile of shite it really is. It's the disjointed ranting of a complete nut job.

I recently finished reading the book. Quite interesting. Hitler had a strong grasp of mob-mentality and clearly painted a portrait (*rimshot) for his intended audience. In parts, he even presented rather cogent deconstructions of political philosophies.

His history was pretty sketchy, though. And, man, the guy really hated jews. I mean, he'd be going along pretty well, making some sense, and I'd be shaking my head thinking "okay" and then...BLAAAAAAAAM!!! Ten pages of "international jewry" this, "sulfur smelling jew" that, and "as we know from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

Say what you will, dude, but at least Hitler told us what he thought about jewry at the outset. No one should have been surprised by the whole final solution thing.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: meekon5 on June 27, 2014, 05:28:50 AM
...Say what you will, dude, but at least Hitler told us what he thought about jewry at the outset. No one should have been surprised by the whole final solution thing.

Do remember that antisemitism was a prevailing mood across most of Europe during the inter war period. There was an incident in Norfolk (UK) where the local Jews were rounded up and burnt to death in a local church.

It's the post war analysis that plays hard on the Nazies antisemitism, there were mass graves in Poland and the Communists still deny having slaughtered 85 and 100 million (which makes the Nazi six to eight million look like chicken feed). There was a reason most Germans wanted to surrender to the Americans or the British rather than the Russians.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: jgiffin on June 27, 2014, 08:45:33 AM
Good points. There's also some evidence that the Russian take on warfare, not atomic bombs, convinced the Japanese their gig was up.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: meekon5 on June 28, 2014, 02:21:07 PM
Turns out Hitler is a hit in Japan also.
A manga version of mein kampf

http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi (http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi)


It's a common mistake to think any manga is significant. To quote the article:

"The collection already includes manga versions of Karl Marx’s "Capital" and Tolstoy’s "War and Peace"

Manga is just a form of literature, it's no more significant than there being a new English translation of the book.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: BikerDude on June 30, 2014, 08:09:59 AM
Turns out Hitler is a hit in Japan also.
A manga version of mein kampf

http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi (http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi)


It's a common mistake to think any manga is significant. To quote the article:

"The collection already includes manga versions of Karl Marx’s "Capital" and Tolstoy’s "War and Peace"

Manga is just a form of literature, it's no more significant than there being a new English translation of the book.

I'm trying to imagine what the reaction would be in the US to a semi popular cartoon about Hitler.
I don't think it would be viewed as completely trivial.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: meekon5 on June 30, 2014, 10:14:40 AM
Turns out Hitler is a hit in Japan also.
A manga version of mein kampf

http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi (http://observers.france24.com/content/20090911-japan-new-hit-mein-kampf-manga-style-hitler-nazi)


It's a common mistake to think any manga is significant. To quote the article:

"The collection already includes manga versions of Karl Marx’s "Capital" and Tolstoy’s "War and Peace"

Manga is just a form of literature, it's no more significant than there being a new English translation of the book.

I'm trying to imagine what the reaction would be in the US to a semi popular cartoon about Hitler.
I don't think it would be viewed as completely trivial.

No I can understand that, same here in the UK. It's just Manga in Japan is a major literary art form and is viewed very differently from the way "cartoon" comics are in the west.

One of my favourite examples is the Manga Guide to Databases (http://www.nostarch.com/mg_databases.htm).

There was recent legislation past in Japan to make pedophile images illegal, but the legislation does not cover manga (bizarre as it seems).

It's not uncommon to see a young Japanese woman openly reading a pornographic manga on the bus, but it is frowned upon to hang pictures of naked people up in your house.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: jgiffin on June 30, 2014, 08:57:36 PM
South Park seems about the closest US analogue. It has treated Saddam, the virgin mary, mohammed*, scientology, mormonism, and used the word "nigger." A lot of those people/things/beliefs/prohibitions are about as bad as Hitler.




*South Park has both depicted mohammed and censored in different episodes. The best I can tell, it depicted him early in the series, then censored him out of a later episode after intentionally publicizing the controversy, and later depicted him again. Not sure what that means.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: jdurand on July 01, 2014, 01:06:51 PM
*South Park has both depicted mohammed and censored in different episodes. The best I can tell, it depicted him early in the series, then censored him out of a later episode after intentionally publicizing the controversy, and later depicted him again. Not sure what that means.

Simple, the ratings went down.  There was also an episode where they use "the f word" as many times as possible and kept a counter running at the bottom of the screen.
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: cckeiser on July 01, 2014, 01:23:03 PM
Nothing may ever change....but Everything gets "Old". 8)
Title: Re: Nothing ever changes
Post by: meekon5 on July 02, 2014, 05:34:49 AM
South Park seems about the closest US analogue. It has treated Saddam, the virgin mary, mohammed*, scientology, mormonism, and used the word "nigger." A lot of those people/things/beliefs/prohibitions are about as bad as Hitler.




*South Park has both depicted mohammed and censored in different episodes. The best I can tell, it depicted him early in the series, then censored him out of a later episode after intentionally publicizing the controversy, and later depicted him again. Not sure what that means.

Nerd point here. Please do not confuse Manga (the graphic novels) with Anime (the cartoon films), even though there is a distribution company for Anime in the west called Manga.