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Abideism (Abiding without Lebowski) => Suggestions for Abideist Inquiry => Topic started by: Rev. Ed C on August 31, 2011, 07:30:53 AM

Title: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 31, 2011, 07:30:53 AM
Recently this subject has emerged, and I thought it was a good time to lay down a topic here and start thrashing it out (in the gentle, kitten batting a ball of wool kind of sense).

At Dudeism's core, the very heart of our ethos, are the prime tenets?  Surely, if we have none, there is no definition of a Dude.  We must have something that quantifies us as being us, right?

Suggestions so far include:

Abiding   |   Taking it Easy   |   Not getting uptight   |   Doing no harm (formerly the less eloquent, Do Not Piss on Anyoneelse's Rug!)

Are these true to us and our way of being?  Are there more, less or do some of those need merging/rephrasing?

When I dabbled in the mire of Buddhist, I just put the tip of my little toe in, and found that really, I'd always abided the 5 Precepts in my life to some extent, and thought this really meshed with the way I wanted to live my life.  Surely, we have the same experience coming into Dudeism?  We all recognise what/who we are, and how we connect in the simplest of terms.

It's not about what we do, it's about who we are, what core principals/precepts/tenets define Dueism.

Abiding is a given, but how can we define it further, in simple terms, without creating a whole web of "rules to follow" that help us to explain what being a Dude is?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 31, 2011, 10:59:54 AM
Beginning of Dudeism:

Don't be uptight
Abide
Take 'er easy

End of Dudeism

This is the short version, then there could be:

Rules of behavior:

What happens between consenting adults is their own business

Respect others' rug/rights

As for doing no harm is great in theory but what should I do if someone pisses on my rug seriously or makes an unchecked aggression? Like attacking one of my family? I mean we are pacifics but not pacifists, or at least I am.

Rules of life:

Sometimes you eat the bear and sometime he eats you, or the strikes and gutters thing.
Every medal has two sides, but sometimes there is also the third one.

No other ideas at the moment.

Coming for the other thread I see the three basic tenets in a bit different way: Don't be uptight relates to oneself in the sense of "don't behave like an asshole" or remain flexible and you'll be able to go around obstacles easier. Taking life easy instead is take easily what happens to you and around you.
Flexibility relates to what comes out of you, taking it easy relate to what happens to you, at least that's how I see it, like ins and outs.  :)
Abiding instead means abiding, but imho the highest characteristic of a dude is not abiding but taking thing easily, which doesn't mean staying at the window while the whole world goes crazy but lowering our ego and seeing things for what they truly are and not what we think they are. Considering important what's really important, so to speak. I messed everything up right?  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on August 31, 2011, 11:42:43 AM
I think we replaced do no harm with Don't be a Dick,
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on August 31, 2011, 12:31:17 PM
Correct cck, correct. But how we do match this with the fact that those who also belong to Brotherhood Shamus have also to admit that they are inherently a dick, as I am?

To be or not to be a dick?

 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on August 31, 2011, 07:14:17 PM
Great start, looking forward to how it progresses!
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on August 31, 2011, 08:20:47 PM
I think we replaced do no harm with Don't be a Dick,

There's me nodding to your noble mantra, and indeed your sig, and you've gone and changed it.  Damn you :)

I'm awaiting to hear more thoughts on this, I'd like a wider net of inclusion to really get the broadest dudely opinion on this sort of thing.  And also, we want something concise, and I'm not really good at the whole brevity thing! :P
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 01, 2011, 03:08:23 AM
Copied from the Hijacked thread:


The three qualities of a dude:

Don't be uptight
Abide
Take it easy

The three attitudes/characteristics of a dude:

He respects others' rug
A dude minds and sometimes draws a line in the sand
He doesn't roll on Shabbas

Life according to Dudeism:

Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes he eats you
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on September 01, 2011, 05:23:53 AM

The three qualities of a dude:

Don't be uptight
Abide
Take it easy


Isn't that saying the same thing three different ways?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 01, 2011, 06:00:52 AM
Yeah, well, it might be but sometimes, sometimes better be precise, or explain the concept in different ways. Also, they are the original uncompromised whathaveyou of Dudeism and they should remain at the first place. No need to reinvent the wheel in this case.

I think they are deeply interlinked but express different aspects of the same concept. imho.  8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 01, 2011, 06:48:37 AM
I think the biggest problem we face in trying to come up with the one true, core definition of what a Dude is and what Dudeism represents is in trying to keep it simple and concise, YET... understandable and not easy to misinterpret.

To say:  "Abide.  That is all..." does not cover it.  Abide isn't actually a word with a whole lots of facets to it, in spite of what stock we may place in it and how much meaning we cram inside (like the multi-inflective "Dude").

On the first page of my (admittedly rather old dictionary) is a word, described thusly:

Quote from: The Little Oxford English Dictionary 1986
abide / v. (past & p.p abode or abided) tolerate; arch. remain, continue. abide by act upon, remain faithful to.

It doesn't say as much as "take it easy", "don't be uptight in mind or body", "keep your mind open and limber" or othersuch simple phrases.

I mean, Meekon, you could come up with an abide haiku which would tell people at least something from the outside :) Oh, sorry, what's that on the floor... are those... hints? ;)

No, but, seriously... the task in hand here is to create a core set of very short, very meaningful principals by which we identify ourselves.  Once we have that down to a tee, in whatever form, we can kind of wrap it up and say "this is Dudeism" and the rest is all talking, philosophy and waffle :)

There must be a balance between too concise to have meaning and too long to be waffle.  Which is why I'm hoping someone else can do this, as my brevity gland was surgically removed at birth :P


So, let me highlight my next idea:

Our core principal the 1st:

Abide
To take it easy, not being uptight of mind or body.
To remain limber and supple of thinking, open like a book, not closed like a door.
To tolerate and respect others, to greet with a smile and embrace with a laugh.

I mean, that's a first draft of my own design, but how can that be improved upon with either firming up the message of simplifying it without watering it down?

And then, after abide, what else do we hold closest, or do people think that can sum us up so completely?

Best philosophising caps on, people :D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 01, 2011, 01:40:36 PM
I think the 1st is taking things easy, which you can do if you remain flexible and limber and which takes you to abiding or, as an Italian Rev. said "aequo animo patior" which translates as enduring with serenity. F****ng latins, they had a saying for everything.

Anyway, I'd still keep the three qualities as they are, in the order DL wrote them. Why not?  8)

But a short explanation of each one, as you did, is a great idea. The AD wrote a great article on abiding on the Dudespaper. We can take it and make a summary of it. He won't mind. I hope. :D

then from there do the same for the rest, but maybe it would be better to first write down the lines, or qualities, or characteristics, or whatever. Less than ten so it won't be exhausting to remember them.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 01, 2011, 01:53:27 PM
as an Italian Rev. said "aequo animo patior" which translates as enduring with serenity. F****ng latins, they had a saying for everything.

I love it :D

Anyway, I'd still keep the three qualities as they are, in the order DL wrote them. Why not?  8)

But a short explanation of each one, as you did, is a great idea. The AD wrote a great article on abiding on the Dudespaper. We can take it and make a summary of it. He won't mind. I hope. :D

Hell yeah, those two need to be involved.  I'm hoping one or both will drop in on the discussion soon and shed some Duddha wisdom all over the topics we've got going down in the Abideism boards :)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Landshark on September 01, 2011, 05:14:34 PM
How about

Be excellent to each other

and

Party on dudes.

oh wait :)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 02, 2011, 12:48:14 AM
Landshark, oh well, why not?  8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 02, 2011, 01:22:14 AM
Well, I'm sure they are keeping an eyes on our blatherings. But they let us think on our own and will say something when it will be the right time and place. You know, they are much Stranger like.  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on September 02, 2011, 01:38:53 AM
@ Rev. Ed C

Abide
To take it easy, not being uptight of mind or body.
To remain limber and supple of thinking, open like a book, not closed like a door.
To tolerate and respect others, to greet with a smile and embrace with a laugh.


That's a worthy start, Rev. Ed. Very limber thoughts.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 02, 2011, 02:30:56 AM
To throw bowling balls only when it's the only option remained. Don't hit first but always hit last.

Oh fuck, this is probably a bit uptight. Or is it not? As regards defending basic rights or freedoms I mean.  ???
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 02, 2011, 05:18:48 AM
Beside the holy idiot and the lemonade attitude things (thanks to M5 and DB) we should add Respect, in the sense given by Native Americans, if this is the correct nomenclature.

Respect encompasses a lot of things: from letting others expressing their opinions, to letting others do what they want if they don't cross lines (consenting adults), respecting others' rugs, letting others living their own life as they wish (always if they don't cross lines of course), not thinking that the world start and stops at your own convenience, respecting ourselves, the others, the planet......

A Dude Minds, and Respects.

Sounds it good?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 02, 2011, 08:17:04 AM
Beside the holy idiot and the lemonade attitude things (thanks to M5 and DB) we should add Respect, in the sense given by Native Americans, if this is the correct nomenclature.

Respect encompasses a lot of things: from letting others expressing their opinions, to letting others do what they want if they don't cross lines (consenting adults), respecting others' rugs, letting others living their own life as they wish (always if they don't cross lines of course), not thinking that the world start and stops at your own convenience, respecting ourselves, the others, the planet......

A Dude Minds, and Respects.

Sounds it good?

Respect is a key thing indeed!

I don't come from the school that respect is earned, I believe DISrespect is earned.

All people are equal and deserve respect unless they go out of their way to earn disrespect, through harsh words or actions.  Even then I've always been one to respect people as human beings, even if their personal respect has lapsed in my eyes.

Take what happened to Saddam as a good example.  He might have been a mass-murdering dictator who abused his people, and lost all respect as a person in my eyes... but, he was still a human being, and treating him as the Iraqui's did in the end was disrespectful to life.  When someone's lost all respect as a person, you need to work back from the basic respect you should have for life to try and make them a respectable person again.

I'm so glad that Egypt is going down this route, and I hope Libya will follow suit once they have Gadaffi.  Respect for the human being!  Without that respect, you're just another heartless killer like them, so I believe.

@ Rev. Ed C

Abide
To take it easy, not being uptight of mind or body.
To remain limber and supple of thinking, open like a book, not closed like a door.
To tolerate and respect others, to greet with a smile and embrace with a laugh.


That's a worthy start, Rev. Ed. Very limber thoughts.

Thanks, DB, and others, it was a good first draft, but with more input and thinking, together we'll get it right :)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 03, 2011, 01:47:43 AM
Mark it 8 Rev. Ed.

A Dude aims at taking life as easy as possible, remaining flexible and abiding through life's challenges being seriously silly.

A Dude respects himself and others, minds about important things and cares for his rug.

A Dude knows he's a dick and that life has ups and downs but tries to see always the positive side of the coin.

A Dude dies with a smile on his face.

Fucking Boh!
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 03, 2011, 01:27:48 PM
And let's not forget Dudes' love for simplicity.

Have a great weekend.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Landshark on September 05, 2011, 02:08:17 AM
How about George Carlin's abridged version of the Ten Commandments?

    Thou shalt be honest and faithful to the provider of one's nookie.

    Thou shalt try really hard not to kill anyone.

The third is meant only for display in public places

    Thou shalt keep thy religion to thine self.

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 06, 2011, 12:51:46 AM
That's interesting, that's f****ng interesting. Thanks for the notes dude.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on September 23, 2011, 06:09:17 AM

1) Please try to be nice to each other. Even if you're sure you're right and you think the other person is a nitwit.
2) If someone isn't nice to you, it's a great opportunity to exercise your own Dudeist muscles by not reacting with indignation or anger.
3) We're all different. The only thing we have in common is that we all want the world to be a little more Dude. Let's try to inject Dudeness into our posts whenever possible. A little Dude goes a long way.
   
I like this one too. Otherwise this thread is a most excellent read.


Nice cut and paste but misses the point I think.

Good rules for the forum not good rules for life.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 23, 2011, 08:02:18 AM

1) Please try to be nice to each other. Even if you're sure you're right and you think the other person is a nitwit.
2) If someone isn't nice to you, it's a great opportunity to exercise your own Dudeist muscles by not reacting with indignation or anger.
3) We're all different. The only thing we have in common is that we all want the world to be a little more Dude. Let's try to inject Dudeness into our posts whenever possible. A little Dude goes a long way.
   
I like this one too. Otherwise this thread is a most excellent read.

~thinkingdude

These are valid points, but we're looking for something more general and succinct, like, "Don't Panic" and "You, be cool, everybody be cool", only not from radio series or Hollywood movies :)

Thanks for restarting the discussion, been a little stale on here the last few weeks, kudos! :D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 23, 2011, 12:37:54 PM
Thanks for restarting the conversation thinkingdude, too much strands in old dude's head these days.

I don't want to be always the same Christian-like Dude but it seems to me that for a concise sentence we can go around and around but the best one is always the Golden Rule, adding Respect and maybe if it harms none..... just to predate from another religion.

I mean, why reinvent the wheel when we can just paraphrase something already good?

Just a thought.  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on September 23, 2011, 12:56:57 PM

...and maybe if it harms none.....


You may have missed some of the discussion on this particular point.

CC and Duddha yes it is a beautiful and worthy ethic, and I admire you both for trying to live life that way, but as usual (it being a favourite crusade of CC's) my point was missed.

I don't object to your ethic what I object to is the statement that was made:

Abiding= enlightened hedonism.

1. Do no harm
2. Enjoy life!

For you yes, your abidance may be so, but for me no.

I am very happy for the pair of you in your "Do No Harm" ethic, go fourth and live your lives as shinning examples of this life style, I admire the fact that you share a dream of a better world, but much as I have problems with "prayer", and "evangelism", I also do not see "do no harm" as part of my abidance, and do not see any of these as essential to Dudeism.

I'm sorry no matter how many times you quote http://youtu.be/q3Xy8YaJH5U, you still have failed to convince me, as a credo it over simplifies the beauty and intricacy of life that includes both the yin and yang of violence and harm.

All you are doing here is evangelising a point of view that I have given due consideration to and find lacking.

Much like the Dudeist Christians, I have no problem with the Dudeist No Harmers, or Dudeist Enlightened Hedonists, but please stop trying to tell me what my abidance should be.

I abide as I abide, you abide as you abide.

I go against my own creed and finally say:

Abiding = Wu Wei

Do without doing, be without interfering. Abidance is taking the water course way.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on September 23, 2011, 05:39:12 PM
That youtube link no longer works dude.
Here is another made from my I have A Wish essay.
http://youtu.be/wrYsS9B6-0Y

Maybe you will  like this one better?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 24, 2011, 02:00:18 AM
No, actually I haven't missed the point,  8) but being lazy I have put dots instead of finishing the sentence which was "if it harms none do what you will". Which can also be seen as "between consenting adults everything is their own business", or "until you cross a line do wtf you want", and so on.

While do no harm is not strictly related to abiding it is nevertheless a cool practice, this doesn't mean that if someone pisses on your rug it isn't right to throw a bowling ball to him. If it means don't hit first is cool, and pretty dudely I think, and still fits into the Yin Yang thing. As I understand it do no harm is about not harming first, or unchecked, not being a sap.  8)

So: Don't be uptight
      Abide
      Take it Easy

      Respect
      Be kind
      Smile

Am I wrong?  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on September 24, 2011, 03:19:11 AM
Sorry Andrea didn't mean you missed the point, just the conversation, have a look at the extensive conversation from http://dudeism.com/smf/index.php?topic=171.msg21196#msg21196 onwards.

To quote Jane from Firefly "I never started a fight I didn't think I could finish!"

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on September 24, 2011, 06:17:15 AM
To quote Jane from Firefly "I never started a fight I didn't think I could finish!"

You and your agressive mercenary attitude :P

I've always been told that I'm Wash.  In fact, for a longer time I've been told I'm more specifically Alan Tudyk.  A few friends of mine, many... many years ago, went to see A Knight's Tale, and when they came back they all agreed I was in the film, a character that later turned out to be played by... Alan Tudyk.  So I'm afraid my solution to fights is, don't start them, play with toy dinosaurs instead! :D

...

Back on track with the discussion, I do think before we incude "Abiding" as a tenent or aspect or whathaveyou of Dudeism, we need to finish definining it properly.  Once again, it doesn't need to be a dictionary definition, but it does need to explain our interpritation in broad, fuzzy terms that still make anyone new to our way of thinking understand the use of this word in context.

But that, of course, as Meekon points out, is the work of the other thread :)
http://dudeism.com/smf/index.php?topic=171.msg21196#msg21196
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 25, 2011, 01:18:11 AM
No problema man, no reason to fight,  8) but actually your fighting attitude is pretty correct.  ;D

Dudes, I've read the other thread and think that having a basically no harm attitude is good, only that it should be always backed up by a redy to use bowling ball to be used when you want to do no harm but someone wants to harm you. As I said in Tibet they were cool people but this haven't saved them from being invaded by China.

Imho abiding is, and must be, a fundamental part or whatever of dudeism and it simply means going on anyway or enduring with serenity, or a similar meaning.

Your water way explanation is the clearest one. And easiest to remember. Actually it has two meanings: one is the water finding always a way to go from the mountains to the sea and then performing again the full circle (which can also be seen as the circle of existence for human beings, life-live-death-life-live-death and so on) and it can also be seen from the point of view of a rock in the torrent who abidingly sustains all that f****ng water.  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on September 25, 2011, 01:32:26 AM
Anyway I think we're more or less there as regards additional concepts to add to the basic three, we just need a bit more of nail polish. Then we can go on with explaining further what each concept means.

Actually I think respect, be kind and smile could be to considered. What means respect we've already said, be kind means being not harsh and to be gentle, but not a sap, and smile relates to the seriously silly attitude.

GLT, great limber thinkers stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on October 22, 2011, 06:31:39 AM
How about us janitors?  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on October 22, 2011, 11:44:43 AM
I want my Tenet to be a Yurt (if only it wasn't for the smell of dead Yak).
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on October 23, 2011, 12:23:37 AM
I want my Tenet to be a Yurt (if only it wasn't for the smell of dead Yak).

Actually, you bring up a good point, M5. I was thinking that perhaps the "Tenets of Dudeism" could be different for different background beliefs and practices. That is to say that a Catholic dude would have a unique set of "Tenets of Dudeism" that would differ somewhat for you as a Pagan.

Much would overlap, but much could be unique thus catering to the needs of various religious or non-religious points of view. A sort of way of keeping Dudeism limber but still have a good enough recognizable structure for all peoples to involve themselves in if they wanted to. Dudeism could indeed have a lot of very interesting ins and outs that are as colorful as the types of people who are dudes.

.....just a thought.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 23, 2011, 12:34:04 AM
I want my Tenet to be a Yurt (if only it wasn't for the smell of dead Yak).

Fuckin'-A dude...Yurts are cool!
Thankee! 8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 23, 2011, 01:54:00 AM
Tipis and wigwams too!  8)

M5 you're now an administrator, far out dude, well deserved.

DB you're probably right, depending on the background everyone can have different tenets, but digging through the tree of knowledge we can arrive at its roots. Much like what Taoism did. It's just a matter of finding the right formula which can act as a common rug for everyone who calls himself a Dudeist. To make a great caucasian we need to know both the ingredients and their percentage. A bit of trial and errors, and debates, until we arrive at the right formula; we're already near the solution though.  8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 23, 2011, 12:18:31 PM
Tipis and wigwams too!  8)

M5 you're now an administrator, far out dude, well deserved.

DB you're probably right, depending on the background everyone can have different tenets, but digging through the tree of knowledge we can arrive at its roots. Much like what Taoism did. It's just a matter of finding the right formula which can act as a common rug for everyone who calls himself a Dudeist. To make a great caucasian we need to know both the ingredients and their percentage. A bit of trial and errors, and debates, until we arrive at the right formula; we're already near the solution though.  8)

Sorry Andrea Da Fino...but I think your a barking uo the wrong tree here. The tenet of Dudeism is ...just take it easy man.
If you need somethink more "christian" like...more formal with rules and dogma...That is what Abideism is for...that the religion with more Tao and less Lebowski...that and a pair of testaments. 8)
It's down at the bottom of the forum dude for a reason dude...so people would NOT get it confused with Dudeism. Dudeism is just fine the way it is dude...it abides.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: forumdude on October 23, 2011, 02:26:03 PM
I think part of the problem is that we're all like the blind men from the Hindu parable trying to describe Dudeism - one of us touches the trunk and says it's like a big snake, another touches the leg and says it's like a tree, another touches the asshole and says it's shitty. Meekon has said (repeatedly, I think) that what he objects to is people trying to tell him (and everyone else) what Dudeism is.

But herein gets laid the conundrum. This is a forum so we're bound to discuss what Dudeism means to us, or maybe where we think it might go and maybe what it "is like". So some people find connections with Christianity, some with pacifism, some with Zen, some with Taoism. But as soon as the statement is made, a sort of door is in danger of closing, often upon the fingers of another who would rather keep it open.

Of course, this should be obvious to most of us, yet sometimes it's clearly not - people take offense when none need be taken, and other times people get dogmatic and they need to be loosened up.

I figure that these sorts of exchanges will continue - how can they not? The collision between mysticism and language is well documented. And until some post-Jobsian comes up with an iIntuit machine we're going to have to rely on these goddamn letters and codes to try to eff the ineffable. Effin A, man.

And that's cool, that's cool. Just remember that any statements about Dudeism must be preceded by an implicit "IMDO" (In My Dudely Opinion) - that is, something we are having fun with but don't necessarily hold to be sacred or even correct or well thought out. On the whole I'm continually impressed by how disagreements here almost never turn into people killing each others' cars.

Also, what's really humbling and fucking far out is just how almost everyone seems to grok in their hearts what Dudeism is. They may not be sure about the particulars but in general there seems to be a real sense of a center of gravity here. Hopefully the pattern will remain constant as it is played with and defined and fleshed out. That is to say, of course, that it will abide.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: forumdude on October 23, 2011, 02:32:53 PM
By the way, in reading that last post over, I don't mean that our opinions are or should be arbitrary. The reason we are "having fun" with all this jibberjabber because it's close to the truth.

We're not Nihilists. I think that's what Andrea means when he suggests that there might be some structure to Dudeism. Even if that structure is provisional, it needs to be there to allow communication to take place. But it's necessary to see the structure as scaffolding, not substance. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: forumdude on October 23, 2011, 07:55:54 PM
sorry if any of that sounded presumptuous, by the way. i'm only guessing at what any of you fellers are blathering about. and vice versa most likely. innit?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on October 23, 2011, 08:09:17 PM
i'm only guessing at what any of you fellers are blathering about. and vice versa most likely.

Sounds like me, so I just get a lane roll with it.  ;D  Another oat soda, Gary.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 24, 2011, 01:37:51 AM
"Sorry Andrea Da Fino...but I think your a barking uo the wrong tree here. The tenet of Dudeism is ...just take it easy man.
If you need somethink more "christian" like...more formal with rules and dogma...That is what Abideism is for...that the religion with more Tao and less Lebowski...that and a pair of testaments. 8)
It's down at the bottom of the forum dude for a reason dude...so people would NOT get it confused with Dudeism. Dudeism is just fine the way it is dude...it abides."


Well Dude, I just don't know. Let me try to say it in a different way, obviously Imdo.

Christian thing: you say Christian and I say Roman Catholic and its offsprings. I'm not for transforming Dudeism in Christianism but I see many common points between them keeping in mind that being a Christian means just and only following the two tenets stated by JCD. What I find instead pretty uptight and undude is that everytime the word Christian or better Catholic comes out a wall of shields istantly appears. I guess if I say "I'm a satanist" many more would say just "well, that's cool" while if I say I dig the real JCD style the same would say something like "poor little stupid". Everything is cool except being from a Christian or even Catholic background. That's not dude. Christians and Catholics are not the only wrong on Earth. There could even be worse religions that we just don't know because we know only about  those two. Actually I'm pretty critic against the men with the black coat but that doesn't mean that they are all bad otherwise I would behave and think like one of those TV preachers who call themselves Christian when they are not. Real Christians are as dude as we are while it seems that they cannot be dude because they are Christians. Again that's wrong, uptight and undude. If Dudeism welcomes everyone except Christians and Catholics, well, sorry but I think everyone who thinks this misses the point on Dudeism much more than I do. Now, I know Dudeism doesn't but a lot of dudeists seem to do it.
Dudeism is a universal concept but if it doesn't comprise also Christians it's no more universal. Again, Christians are not those who want to flame anything and board anyone.


Abideism and Rules: I don't like rules as everyone else but I understand that our three core concepts(politically correct nomenclature) are not enough to define a dude. Example: I earn my money selling dangerous substances to minors, yet I abide, take it easy and avoid being uptight. Am I a Dude? And what if I organize dog fights? Or trade weapons in the black market? Or scam older people? And if I throw poisons in the water for money? Provided I follow the three concepts I can do any of them and still be a dude. No. That's why a bit more concepts are needed for an everyday definition of what a Dude is. In real life there is the need for a bit more explanations of what being a dude means.
I don't need Abideism as well as I don't need Lebowskism, Dudeism is more than enough but to play in the real world and be useful for a lot of people out there and stop being considered just a bunch of amateurs internet movie fan club we should be able to provide answers to those who ask. That's imdo the task of being a Dudeist Priest. Not going around showing my patch but providing answers on how to live a better, fulfilling life and given that the first question usually is what is a dude and how to live a dudely life, well, we should give a definite commonly accepted answer. To do this we need a clearer definition of what a dude is, and not based on the movie but on real life where you have children to feed, bills to pay and maybe and under-paid job with an asshole boss and a sick relative.

Then, just to try to explain better my point of view, look at the human body. To stand straight and move around we need bones and a spinal column, without them we would just be a bag of meat unable to move. It might work for unicellular creatures but as human beings we need bones. We could prefer to have a simple stucture like a snail but without a strusture we can arrive nowhere. And like our Taoist compeers  say life is movement.

Probably it's my fault because I don't see Dudeism as a movie fan club, nor a joke, nor an anti-Christian fake religion, etc,. but as a philosophy organized in a religion which can help people to live better and deal well with the human comedy but to to this Dudeism needs, imdo, to expand a bit the concept of what Dudeism is and what a Dude, or/and a Dudeist Priest, is. And this is Olly job as Dudeism as a religion has a "leader" and his is the final word on everything related to Dudeism. Every church or organization needs a leader and if someone doesn't agree can always starts his own religion. We can give hints and opinions but he is the one who can say what Dudeism is. He had the idea and I won't steal, so to speak, Dudeism from him. Or the Dudeist Church if you prefer.


Dogma, well, I don't like it but I believe that it's possible to distill things until come out general rules always appliable, the root of the tree. Our Taoist compeers did it with Tao, Yin and Yang and I guees we can do the same. Then, once we have distilled the core of Dudeims it should become a kind of permanent thing, just to avoid that in the future Dudeism can become something screwed like Christianism became Roman Catholicism. I gues JCD didn't like it but that what happened without clear definitions and permanent rules.


Lastly, given that I'm ranting it's better to rant 'til the end  8), I feel that Dudeism should go from being a concept to down to earth, practical advices on living life. This is not dogma or being uptight, or complicating things but it's  having Dudeism to provide real answers to real people in the real world.

If someone has just lost his only child can I go and say to him "Well dude, just abide, take it easy and keep your mind limber; or just say fuck it. Few beers, some burgers, some friends and all the troubles are over?????????

Is this Dudeism? Answering in lines from the movie?

Sorry for the rant dudes, no intention to harm anyone here, which is a pretty Christian concept though.  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 24, 2011, 04:42:08 AM
That's just like your opinion dude...and the reason you think the way you do is you have been mind fucked by the fuckin' church. You think what you wrote here sounds rational...The church has bent your mind so badly you cannot rationalize without their mind fucking getting in you way. You even call them "Christian Concepts"!...dude...do no harm and helping one another predates the Church by thousands of years. It is how we all got along and survived Before The Church came along and fucked things up.

I will offer you the same advice I offered thinkingdude...free your mind from the brainwashing of the church. You have been mind fucked and don't even know it.
But I will promise you this...once you free your mind of their mind fucking...you are going to be pissed as hell for what they did to you.

What meekon5 has taught me is...We cannot put a name to Dudeism any more than we can put a name to Tao...if we try to name either they are neither Dudeism nor Tao.

Get your minds free dudes.




Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: milnie on October 24, 2011, 08:41:29 AM
CC, am i sensing a smidgen of hostility to the christian church? please tell me you weren't a choirboy who had "special" lessons ?!?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 24, 2011, 10:16:24 AM
CC, am i sensing a smidgen of hostility to the christian church? please tell me you weren't a choirboy who had "special" lessons ?!?

I was raised Roman Catholic and attended catholic school till i graduated from high school. i was not a choirboy but yes...i saw some things...but no matter what the church could have done to my body is nothing compared to what they did do to my mind. i suffered for 30 plus years trying to rid myself of their mind fucking.
Where you start is in recognizing/comprehending...that Everything the church has told you is a Lie!...Everything...remember the church was the victor and wrote our history books.
Morhdorh won!
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: forumdude on October 24, 2011, 01:00:38 PM
cc definitely harbors some resentment towards the institution. it's an apt pun, institution. both an organization and a place for crazy people. because organizations get crazier and crazier and make people crazy as well. which is why dudeism has to remain a sort of dis-organization in order to keep from going off the rails.

nevertheless, it seems that andrea is not sticking up for the church but for the spirit of christianity. and most of that spirit jibes with dudeism. not the otherworldly parts and the claim that you should let people punch you two times, but certainly a lot of it (from the gospels primarily).

incidentally, though "do no harm" had existed long before christianity, that "no harm doing" was normally reserved for members of one's own tribe. one of the great achievements of christianity was to divorce people's ethnic identity from their philosophical identity. this was a new phenomenon in the west at the time, though the buddha had done this five hundred years before in the east. certainly some good things came out of the christian worldview. though most of those things happened a hell of a long time ago. on the other hand it could be argued that the church was responsible for the destruction of all that was good in western civilization for 1500 years. and that's a bummer man. that's a bummer.

so, yeah, you take the good with the bad. or try to, anyway.

i think that most of us here would have a hard time getting on board with the idea that the catholic church (and any other mega-church or movement) has been very good for humanity. but that doesn't abnegate the idea that the original uncompromised Jesus and his first draftees were onto something groovy.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Caesar dude on October 24, 2011, 01:32:45 PM
Quote
but that doesn't abnegate the idea that the original uncompromised Jesus and his first draftees were onto something groovy.

But he didn't fucking exist man. He's an allegory a made up fable. There is not one shred of historical documentation that names him or supports his existence.

And that isn't opinion dudes.

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: BikerDude on October 24, 2011, 01:33:21 PM
I harbor resentment toward the catholic church, voodoo, shamanism, nordic gods, greek gods, alchemy, witch burning and pretty much all types of idiocy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn48PeUUulk&feature=related


Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: forumdude on October 24, 2011, 02:14:24 PM
Quote
but that doesn't abnegate the idea that the original uncompromised Jesus and his first draftees were onto something groovy.

But he didn't fucking exist man. He's an allegory a made up fable. There is not one shred of historical documentation that names him or supports his existence.

And that isn't opinion dudes.


Right you are dude. But the same goes for all the other religious prophets. Or rather, they may have existed but almost surely didn't say or do all the stuff attributed to them. In every case someone else wrote it down way after the fact, including the followers of Buddhism and Taoism. The Buddha and Lao Tzu are hazy figures, part or mostly legendary. All religious creeds are big games of Chinese whispers.

Well, except for Scientology and Mormonism. Neither of which are high in the running for Dudeliest worldwide.

It doesn't really matter if Jesus existed or not. The impact he had on the world is the same. The Dude wasn't real either but we dig his style just the same. In fact, I'm not sure that any of us are "real". I wake up different every day. I often think I'm just a product of my own ego's bullshit propaganda.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Klaus Korters on October 24, 2011, 02:16:41 PM
Yeah but Odin with all that facial hair and long mane? Stick on a pair of shades and you gotta dude looking fella, I mean what was he saying? refusing to cut his hair and shave and all........ ;D




It's a small world I inhabit, but I like it.
 
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: milnie on October 24, 2011, 02:39:07 PM


I was raised Roman Catholic and attended catholic school till i graduated from high school. i was not a choirboy but yes...i saw some things...


Sorry cc. A bad attempt at injecting a bit of humour into a heavy discussion. For what it's worth my only abiding memory of involvement with the Christian church was standing up one Sunday during a sermon when i was very small and shouting "anchor butter". Unfortunately the question that predates this sage bit of advice is lost in the annals of time.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 24, 2011, 10:44:25 PM
Ok, I'm done with my rant...fuck it...lets go bowling dudes! 8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 25, 2011, 03:48:20 AM
That's just like your opinion dude...and the reason you think the way you do is you have been mind fucked by the fuckin' church. You think what you wrote here sounds rational...The church has bent your mind so badly you cannot rationalize without their mind fucking getting in you way. You even call them "Christian Concepts"!...dude...do no harm and helping one another predates the Church by thousands of years. It is how we all got along and survived Before The Church came along and fucked things up.

I will offer you the same advice I offered thinkingdude...free your mind from the brainwashing of the church. You have been mind fucked and don't even know it.
But I will promise you this...once you free your mind of their mind fucking...you are going to be pissed as hell for what they did to you.

What meekon5 has taught me is...We cannot put a name to Dudeism any more than we can put a name to Tao...if we try to name either they are neither Dudeism nor Tao.

Get your minds free dudes.



(Imdo) Good advice man, the only problem is that I haven't been brainwashed by the Catholic church, nor I've brainwashed myself. And I'm not even a Catholic given that I've understood that as an organization they were a bunch of liers when I was 15. It's just a tenet of Dudeism to divide people in just two categories, dude and undude. And not in dude, undude, and Christians. It seems that for some of us even Scientology or being a Kali's Thug is better than Christianity or Catholicism. Or even one of those flat brain people who blast themselves for Allah. Everything can be accepted except being either Christian or Catholic, which are two different things anyway.

I think this prevents a lot of fellas from even thinking to enter our beloved religion because they feel they won't be accepted for their religious background. Nowhere is written that if you dig JCD you can't be a dude. Or if you are a Catholic. Most Catholics by the way are such because they dig JCD and not the Pope, they are not all a bunch of uptights. And JCD isn't an historic Dude by chance.


But we could ask people that before joining Dudeism they must abiure their previous religion, wait, this is what sects and religions like Catholicism or Islam do.  ;D

It is not my intention to defend the Roman Catholic church, which is just one of the many Catholic churches around, but I don't like this kind of approach. I don't like to see a kind of dogmatic war between Dudeism and Catholicism. We hate dogmas but sometimes it seems that our only dogma is to fight the Catholic church who is the evil of the world. But I do understand that given that the Catholic religion is the one we know better it becomes a natural target. We should begin, for a matter of equality, to study Islam and the various Jews sects. Just to talk about historic truth and open mindness.


Do I dig part of what JCD is thought to have said? Yes. Do I believe every story around about him? No. Do I dig the Catholicism style? No, but there are many other religions or philosophies I don't dig. Also, even if the greatest part of the story about JCD is fictional, as well about Buddha, Lao Tzu and all the other compeers, it is said that the Gospel of Thomas which talks about JCD is dated around 100 A.C. which makes it a good historical book.


Does my point of view make me a bad dude? Well, I just don't think. What makes me a bad dude is being undude. Whatever my religious, non religious or philosophical background. Dude and undude, that's how we divide the world.


As for the M5 quote it's a point where we agree to disagree, imdo we can define Dudeism because Dudeism is not Tao just like Taoism is not Tao. Tao is one thing, Dudeism and Taoism are points of view on Tao and the immutable laws of nature. Human or not. The fact that at the moment we don't see the whole elephant doesn't negates the fact that we are talking about an elephant, not a tiger, not a lion, an elephant.

Dudeism is like water which can take many forms, but it remains water, not beer, not wine. And we can define water. Dudeism is a philosophy, a religion, a church, an organization and 1000 other things but it's not just a concept. We can like it or not, we can agree or not but Dudeism is something definite even if it can be further clarified.

If something is just a foggy concept than everyone is right and Dudeism can be everything one wants, if instead something is clear then some are right and some are missing the point. And given that we know that something is dude and something is undude than it's pretty clear that Dudeism and being a dude are specific things and not a good for everyone recipe. We won't end up with Dude Cannibals around. Now, let me take another look and see if I can find this clarity down there.
(Imdo)  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on October 25, 2011, 07:19:55 AM
Quote
but that doesn't abnegate the idea that the original uncompromised Jesus and his first draftees were onto something groovy.

But he didn't fucking exist man. He's an allegory a made up fable. There is not one shred of historical documentation that names him or supports his existence.

And that isn't opinion dudes.



Um at the risk of being more of an anal retentive arse than usual, the dead sea scrolls do allegedly mention the guy.

;D

Though the majority of the dead sea scrolls is about other things entirely, there is one tiny mention of jesus.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Caesar dude on October 25, 2011, 07:47:47 AM
I have not heard this? I will investigate further....thank you Meekon.  :)

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Dirty Hippie on October 25, 2011, 07:50:31 AM
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! You think it's a coinkidinki that the Jesus is a pederast? Nah, man! That there's a metaphor or sumpthin.

Anyway, all this arguing is totally undude and exhausting. The Dude would not bother with any of this, IMDO. I feel it is only because the conversation is between a group of Dudes that it is as cordial as it is. Any other forum would have people banned and a lot of feelings poo pooed by now.

 
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Caesar dude on October 25, 2011, 08:02:49 AM
http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html (http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html)

Fact No. 22

Unless new shit has come to light of which I am unaware...and that is highly likely!  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: milnie on October 25, 2011, 08:13:42 AM
Ok, I'm done with my rant...fuck it...lets go bowling dudes! 8)

sweeeet! mark it 8 dude. theres always another frame :)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on October 25, 2011, 08:35:13 AM
http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html (http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html)

Fact No. 22

Unless new shit has come to light of which I am unaware...and that is highly likely!  ;D

I stand corrected I did actually believe there was a mention of him in the dead sea scrolls.

(see I can be wrong occasionally) ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on October 25, 2011, 08:43:54 AM
From the Tao Of Programming: (http://www.canonical.org/~kragen/tao-of-programming.html)

Quote

The wise programmer is told about Tao and follows it.
The average programmer is told about Tao and searches for it.
The foolish programmer is told about Tao and laughs at it.

If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao.

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 25, 2011, 02:11:42 PM
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! You think it's a coinkidinki that the Jesus is a pederast? Nah, man! That there's a metaphor or sumpthin.

Anyway, all this arguing is totally undude and exhausting. The Dude would not bother with any of this, IMDO. I feel it is only because the conversation is between a group of Dudes that it is as cordial as it is. Any other forum would have people banned and a lot of feelings poo pooed by now.


Well dude, actually we're just expressing our different points of view. With a bit of passion but without any intention to be assholes. That's the beauty of dudeism, having different opinions, debating yet being still able to share a virtual beer. I don't think cckeiser is a paraquat and probably he feels the same. Am I right dude?  :D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 25, 2011, 03:35:25 PM
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! You think it's a coinkidinki that the Jesus is a pederast? Nah, man! That there's a metaphor or sumpthin.

Anyway, all this arguing is totally undude and exhausting. The Dude would not bother with any of this, IMDO. I feel it is only because the conversation is between a group of Dudes that it is as cordial as it is. Any other forum would have people banned and a lot of feelings poo pooed by now.


Well dude, actually we're just expressing our different points of view. With a bit of passion but without any intention to be assholes. That's the beauty of dudeism, having different opinions, debating yet being still able to share a virtual beer. I don't think cckeiser is a paraquat and probably he feels the same. Am I right dude?  :D

Fuckin' A no...I do not think you're a paraquat We just have two different perspectives so exist in two different Realities.
In fact I was just about to write a piece explaining why we can never agree on everything.
It starts with quantum theory...continues with a little bit of Poly-Solipsism, and ends where it has to end, with a slice of Skeptical Idealism 2.0.
I have been thinking on it for awhile...just haven't gotten around to writing it up...it may take a bit to write though. It's not easy trying to explain how Reality really works to a bunch of stoner dudes! 8)

You just may want to limber up you minds a bit and maybe burn a few J's if you got em.
I'm going to be hitting the Kahlua pretty hard myself. 8)

(can't get the weed here in PA...fuckin' fascist state!)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 25, 2011, 08:34:26 PM
A brief summery of How Reality Really Works

We are the product of our experiences. What we each experience determines who we are and how we think...and to a greater or lesser degree how we appear to ourselves and to others...our experiences mold us into this grand  illusion of this person we call I.

But what is this thing we call Experience? The more we look at this question the stranger the answer becomes.

A warning here...you simply Must be an Idealist to comprehend just about anything I am trying to explain here. Realism is a dead end and cannot give an answer to either The Fundamental or The Hard Question. (Look it up yourself...this is supposed to be Brief remember!)

The Quantum Theory (according to the Copenhagen Group, which is the only real quantum theory as far as I am concerned) tells us that there is no Reality until it is Observed by an Observer. If we go all the way down the Rabbit hole to its ultimate conclusion...there is no Reality outside the mind of the Observer.
Since this is so...what is it then that we experience?
Again, as per the Quantum Theory, and Dr Fred Alan Wolf...we must project into the quantum in order to perceive. What we project is our desires, our apprehensions and our anxieties...we do this both consciously and most importantly subconsciously...it is our subconscious mind that ultimately controls our personal Reality. In simpler terms we actually choose for ourselves what our Reality will be, and then we observer and experience that Reality.

But it's not really all that simple...there's a complication that keeps jamming things up and getting in our way. That complication is...You!
Poly-Solipsism tells us that the mind of the person we call I is not the only mind that exists and that You (Not I); these other minds...influence what we ourself think and see and ultimately Believe.
We can have no direct evidence that other minds exist beside our own; except for the problem that we call ourself I. In order to know what I means we must first know Not I. Without Not I there can be no meaning to I.
It is this constant exchange of Information between I and all the other Not I minds that forms our shared consensus reality and influences our subconscious thought of what we are supposed to believe. It is these groups of minds that we choose to associate with that forms the foundation of our own beliefs and therefore what we choose to perceive as World View or Reality...whether it's a true perception or not is beside the point.
Which now leads us into the Rabbit Hole once more, but this time all the way down to the very core and through the quantum itself.
We will need to eat not only the Red Pill, but also partake of the Mad Hatter's tea and cakes.
Skeptical Idealism 2.0 tells us since all reality is simply observer generated and completely within the mind of the observer...there is not real reality at all and no real truth at all. It is all a grand illusion within the mind and there really are no answers at all..there are only choice and it makes no difference at all what we believe we perceive. Any belief is just as true as any other, and none of them are really true at all.
There are no answers...only choices.

But fuck it dudes we can't worry about all that shit...life goes on.
Lets get us a lane and go bowling. 8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 25, 2011, 09:07:10 PM
Oops...I guess I should mention that what that all means is...we are all insane! ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 26, 2011, 04:38:10 AM
That's interesting, not sure if I've understood it correctly but interesting anyway.

Imdo though things are a bit different. Something if exists exist whether there is an observer or not. Like the theory of the cat in the box: if there is, or not, a cat in the box is ininfluent from an observer to open the box. The cat is there or not even if no observer open the box. In this world we have something either exists or it doesn't. So Reality is Reality.

What we see as Reality instead is what we perceive with our senses and with our mind. What we can see with our senses is just a part of what "exists". Dogs can hear a far greater range of sounds than humans and cats can see a whole different world from us, and let not talk about bats and other animals. So there are sounds which we cannot hear but do exists even if for our senses they do not. They are real but they don't exist, for us. Might be that our only correct sense is the touch, but there are all those vibration theories around so even it could be wrong, or misleading.

Then our mind comes into play and it messes up everything because we can decide, consciously or subconsciously, to see what we want to see. Like "The world is what you think it is" theory. And from a personal point of view it's perfectly correct. We choose our own reality but not in the sense that does exist only what we want to but that we can close, or open, our mind and see only that which resonates with us. And this happens everytime we're involved or something touches our deeper beliefs. Looking at things from a distant point of view and being unjudgemental is one of the hardest things to do yet it's the only possibility to see things as they really are and not as we think they are.

So, Reality is what it is, what does exist with or without an observer and inside and outside our senses. Our own Reality is what we can and what we want to see and perceive.

That's why it is important to state clearly and possibly permanently what makes dude a dude, because with time as everything changes we don't know where we'll go and it could happen to us what happened to Christians with Catholicism and to Taoism with Modern Taoism. We have to be sure that no one in the future can twist Dudeism to his or her own convenience. And this is possible. Universal rules do exists and can be applied to everything, that's why they are rules, or laws. The exception which confirm the rules is a total b**shit because one exception transforms the rule in a rule almost always true. Not always, almost always.

Dudeism is Abiding, Being not Uptight and Taking it Easy. We all agree on that and these are permanent concepts, the three pillars upon which Dudeism is built. But for everyday life we need a bit more details. Imdo obviously. I know that everything changes and only the Tao is eternal but there are concepts which are always true and which could be inserted as guidelines in Dudeism.

No unchecked aggressions is just an example. Isn't it true all the times as a dudeist concept? Everything belongs to Tao but not everything is Taoist. We just have to stick to simplicity. I believe it's possible to find a good compromise between freedom and good rules, or tenets, or whathaveyou.

We need few clear guidelines beyond the three pillars to avoid perceiving Dudeism as we want it to be and seeing Dudeism for what it is. Personal Reality vs Objective or Real Reality, so to speak.

Being a bit clearer and slightly more detailed also would help not only us to live a more dudely life but would also help others to understand better what Dudeism is. And help us finding compeers around the world who, even from different backgrounds, can dig our style and cooperate in trying to make this damned place a better world. Also, next time a Malibu Sheriff stops you it could also help to explain that you're just following your religious tenets. Which at times can be pretty useful.

Just like having a structure. Structures are needed to avoid collapsing, together with a strong base. If something wants to resist the passing of time then it needs very solid foundations and a structure upon which you can build something everlasting. It doesn't need to be a skyscraper, it can be a tipi, a wigwam ot a yurt, yet a structure is needed.

Then someone can decide to sleep outside under the sky or to enter and sleep under the tent, or can come in and go out as he pleases but at least there is a choice. And when thunder strikes it's better to have a roof over the head.

Imdo this is how things should go, as few as possible guidelines but eternal and a simple tipi like structure. But this is just my opinion so I can be wrong. I went a little out of topic but, well, you know what happens when you begin writing.  ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on October 26, 2011, 05:35:02 AM
Oops...I guess I should mention that what that all means is...we are all insane! ;D

I've known that most of my life (you're all insane it was never me).

Actually can I add the work of Michel Foucault (I recommended Madness and Civilization - A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason), Descartes (I think therefore I am), the Tao Of Physics (http://www.dgswilson.com/pdf/taophysics.pdf)  (check out the PDF  Library & Learning Center, Compiling Data For Life On The Self Determined Path (http://dgswilson.com/Links/pdfLibrary.html)), and of course the vast majority of Buddhist and Taoist literature.

There is no mirror, there is no I.

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 26, 2011, 06:59:58 AM
Fuck it, I forgot to say one thing: mark it 8 cckeiser and far out.  ;D Let's go for kahlua then.

M5, probably I don't understand the concept very well, but if there isn't a mirror I exist anyway. Sort of Cogito Ergo Sum, not coito, cogito.  ;D
And even if I have a flat encephalogram so unable to think, I'm still there, so I exist nonetheless.

I'm having an headache starting. Losing my train of thoughts.  :D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on October 26, 2011, 07:28:59 AM

...M5, probably I don't understand the concept very well, but if there isn't a mirror I exist anyway. Sort of Cogito Ergo Sum, not coito, cogito.  ;D


It's a Zen thing.

From

Quote from:  Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

The disciple asks: What then is it [i.e., no-thought]?

The master replies: It is nothing like ?what is.? Therefore, we can not explain ?no-thought.? The reason why I am speaking about it now is because you have asked about it. If you haven?t asked about it, there is no need to explain it. Suppose that there is a clear, transparent mirror. If it does not face a thing, no image is reflected in it. To say that it mirrors an image means that because it faces something, it just mirrors its image.

The disciple asks: If it does not face any thing, is there or is there not a reflection in the mirror?

The master replies: That the mirror reflects a thing means that it always mirrors regardless of whether it is facing or not facing a thing.

The disciple asks: If there is no image and since you do not give an explanation, how can all beings and nonbeings become an issue? Now when you say that it always mirrors, how does it mirror?

The master replies: When I say that the mirror always mirrors, it is because a clear, transparent mirror possesses an original nature as its essential activity of always mirroring things. Analogously, people's mind is originally undefiled, and naturally possesses a superb light of wisdom that illuminates the perfect world of nirvāna.

 The disciple asks: Insofar as people's minds are originally like that, when do people get it?

The master replies: It just sees nothing.

The disciple asks: When it is nothing, what can it see?

The master replies: Seeing is not like something you can call a thing.

The disciple asks: If it is not like anything one can call a thing, what does it see?

The master replies: it sees no-thing. That is the true seeing. It always sees.


The answer to all questions is "Mu" (no-thing)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 26, 2011, 04:01:27 PM
Schrodinger's cat mind problem was to illustrate superposition state all things are in before they are observed...not whether or not the cat is in the box. yes the cat is in the box...we put it in there...what was being explained with that mind problem was after we close the lid of the box the cat is will either be alive or dead, but before we look it is in the superposition of being both alive and dead at the same time. The experiment tells us that all matter is in this superposition before it is observed. It only exist as Potential of all the possible states it could be before we look and decide which state it should be in.

The problem we all have in grasping that what we think we perceive may not be true at all is our Ego will not let us. The Ego traps our mind in it's own illusion of truth and tells us We are right and seeing The Truth and everyone else who do not agree are just blind stupid assholes.

You experience the Church a Divine, I have experienced the Church as Demonic.
So in my Reality that is what it is...in doing research about the Dark Ages for my novel The Wizard's Tongue I just found more evidence of how demonic they really were, which confirmed and reinforced my belief an expectations.
If you did the same research I did and read the very same articles...you would not see the same things I saw and you would come away with a different interpretation.
There is no getting away from it...we all see from a different perspective so see everything differently...some times just a little, but some times by a whole frickin lot.

We may never agree of one thing or another, but if we can surrender the Ego and recognize our own Solipsism for what it is, then maybe we can actually comprehend that we really do not know the truth about anything at all.
It's all just an illusion we have manifested in our own minds...and none of it...none at all...is actually true.
It all just made up shite to fool us into believing we can know anything at all.

Realist believe the mind exists in the Universe. Idealist believe the Universe exists in the Mind.

If we examine how our sight works we learn we do not actually see objects as they are, what we see is an image of them projected onto the back of the brain. What the brain sees may not be what the eyes are seeing...just what the brain thinks the eyes are seeing.
And we all perceive differently and from a different perspective...so we will never see the very same things.
But by exchanging our POVs and discussing what we each perceive we can change the other's reality by shifting them from one perspective to another closer to our own. That is what I am attempting to do here...trying to get you to "see" just how evil that church of your is.
I am trying to drag you into my illusion of Reality...why...Because I hate the fuckin' christians man! 8)

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Caesar dude on October 26, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
I agree with everything you've said there, CCK. I've done a bit of research into this stuff too and the only logical conclusions are that either the Catholic church and it's leaders are all entirely insane or that they are actually devil worshippers.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 26, 2011, 06:08:24 PM
"Just when you think you're out....they drag you back in again!"

I said the other day I wasn't going to go back down the frickin rabbit hole, but damn I just did.
ENOUGH! No more frickin philosophy...you all can just figure it on your own!
Fuck it! I'm going Bowling instead! 8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Andrea Da Fino on October 27, 2011, 01:04:52 AM
"You experience the Church a Divine, I have experienced the Church as Demonic.
So in my Reality that is what it is...in doing research about the Dark Ages for my novel The Wizard's Tongue I just found more evidence of how demonic they really were, which confirmed and reinforced my belief an expectations.
If you did the same research I did and read the very same articles...you would not see the same things I saw and you would come away with a different interpretation."

Well, probably I haven't been able to express my idea correctly: I don't think the church is divine nor demonic; human beings are either divine or demonic, so to speak. Every church in the world is made up by those men and women who belong to it and is as good or bad depending on how they are. The church just takes out what they already have inside.

Everyone knows what the Catholic, and not Christian, church did during the Dark Ages, my point is that Islam and Jews did, and sometimes still do, the same yet I don't see them weighted in the same way. And I hope this is not because the Catholic church usually doesn't answer while the other two usually retaliate when attacked. If you look at history Jews sterminated everyone around because they were the people of God. Everyone and in many cases older people, women and babies too. Muslims still today tend to lapidate people and there are countries where you can be killed by common people for having a crucifix or a bible, or having your nails removed with a plier for having nail polish.

Everyone with a bit of reason and a little knowledge of history can see that the Catholic religion has been completely built up on previous religions, half from the judaic one and half from the pagans with a bit of Mitra. Yet this doesn't mean that all those who believe the story of the Catholic church are either bad or stupid. And if you think they are closed minded try talking with a muslim or a jew. But we always attack the catholics.

I'm not saying that the catholics are all good, they are as good as jews and muslims and should receive the same treatment here. The fact that some swimming teacher are pederasts doesn't mean that all swimming teachers are pederasts right? I just don't like this kind of prejudice against catholics. Also, from an historic point of view, you should have noticed that Catholicism is just one interpretation of Christianism, so much that as a matter of facts most of the times Christianism and Catholicism are two complete different things.

Dudeism is a religion open to everyone, even to Catholics and Christians and as much as we find cool quotes from Zen, Buddhism, Taoism and so on we should find cool quotes from JCD, or the Kumran. Otherwise we are missing the point on Dudeism. If there is a rule it must work for everyone, for a matter of fairness.

So, I dig JCD without the being punched twice attitude (added during the Council of Nicea) while I don't like the point of view of Catholicism or the Catholic church. But I want to stick to the world division of dudes and undudes and only that.

And now we can go bowling. But you pay the beer.  8)
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on October 29, 2011, 04:20:03 PM
Oops...I guess I should mention that what that all means is...we are all insane! ;D

I've known that most of my life (you're all insane it was never me).

Actually can I add the work of Michel Foucault (I recommended Madness and Civilization - A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason), Descartes (I think therefore I am), the Tao Of Physics (http://www.dgswilson.com/pdf/taophysics.pdf)  (check out the PDF  Library & Learning Center, Compiling Data For Life On The Self Determined Path (http://dgswilson.com/Links/pdfLibrary.html)), and of course the vast majority of Buddhist and Taoist literature.

There is no mirror, there is no I.



Yo! Thankee for the PDF Library dude! Lost of good fuckin' shit in there dude!
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on November 01, 2011, 02:24:06 AM
Yo! Thankee for the PDF Library dude! Lost of good fuckin' shit in there dude!

I was looking for the pdf of the tao of physics and found it on this site then saw all the other shite there and had to share it.

;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: cckeiser on November 01, 2011, 02:43:15 AM
Yo! Thankee for the PDF Library dude! Lost of good fuckin' shit in there dude!

I was looking for the pdf of the tao of physics and found it on this site then saw all the other shite there and had to share it.

;D

Even though you have not said so out right...I get the felling you comprehend my writings completely...do you not sir? I think you may be one of the very few (guestamate ~3%) who do.
I take comfort in that...thankee.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on December 15, 2011, 08:16:23 AM
Yo! Thankee for the PDF Library dude! Lost of good fuckin' shit in there dude!

I was looking for the pdf of the tao of physics and found it on this site then saw all the other shite there and had to share it.

;D

I feel so out of touch... not only did I miss half this discussion I started whilst I was away tackling the real world, but also my copy of The Tao of Physics is in paperback, not .pdf :P

It's so lonely back here, in the Dark Ages ;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on December 15, 2011, 09:24:11 AM
It's so lonely back here, in the Dark Ages ;D

Ludite!

;D
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. Ed C on December 15, 2011, 10:54:24 AM
It's so lonely back here, in the Dark Ages ;D

Ludite!

;D

In the words of The Gourds:
"I am just a Luddite, gimme some Luddite juice..."
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: M1k3 on January 25, 2012, 10:11:26 AM
Coming from a 12 step background to me it is:

Just be yourself.

The Dude at no point was ever anyone but himself, despite the ins and outs and what have yous. 

Am I wrong?
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: meekon5 on January 25, 2012, 10:20:37 AM
Coming from a 12 step background to me it is...

Is that some sort of dance thing? "the next dance ladies and gentlemen is a twelve step background, take your partners please"

Or is it some sort of Asian thing?

Oh and by the way welcome to our little beach community.
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: M1k3 on January 25, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
Thanks for the welcome.

Nay, I'm not much of a dancer.  I'm in Al-Anon, it is a 12 step recovery program for family and friends of alcoholics.  That is what led me here in a round about way. 

The 12 step program in many ways is very much like Buddhism which led me back to Daoism and Zen and then to here and Dudeism.  It always comes down to take er easy.

So I decided I needed to spend some time and kick back on the beach.

Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: DigitalBuddha on January 25, 2012, 03:51:29 PM
Coming from a 12 step background to me it is:

Just be yourself.

The Dude at no point was ever anyone but himself, despite the ins and outs and what have yous. 

Am I wrong?


Fuckin' eh, being yourself is very dude-like. Welcome to our unspoiled pad and beach party, dude. Grab a rug and abide!
Title: Re: The Tenets of Dudeism
Post by: Rev. RJ Dudemiester on July 11, 2012, 03:14:50 PM
is it redundant to suggest that Dudeism ought to have the Golden Rule at it's core?