Since I've watched TBL now around 100 times or so, I figured I've got, like, an opinion on this movie.
Trying to be more and more like the Dude, I found myself stressed by my easy-going, passive attitude; I had people who would run over me, take advantage of me, etc., kind of like the Dude.
I've noticed that aggressive people don't tend to have these problems because they draw a line in the sand, and across this line, other people don't cross!
Aw hell, I'm ramblin again. What I'm blathering about is that Walter and the Dude tend to have the SAME amount of calmness and dudeliness to them.
In general, the Dude seems to be calm and explodes later, where as Walter releases his agression earlier and then become calm.
For example, when Smokey goes over the line, Walter is in a frenzy at the beginning, but is calm after they are in the car. The Dude is calm during the incident, but explodes in the car.
During the attempted hand-off, Walter goes crazy at the end, but ends up calm while they are at the bowling alley, whereas the Dude is panicking and worried about his options while they are at the bowling alley.
The only difference between these two is the way in which they handle their business, and i ultimately believe that this helps Walter remain very calm.
I've noticed this too, dude. they are the yin to each others yang, and visa versa. they balance each other out. I watched an episode of My name is earl today, and usually in the show, joy is a bitch while her husband darnell (crab man) is very calm and cool. However, in this particular episode Joy was given "happy pills" and the result is implied. after that, they get a new neighbor who parked too close (trailer park) to their trailer, and they start throwing stuff into Joy and Darnell's trailer. Because of this Darnell freaks out and say That he needs Joy to be the bitch because he isn't any good at it, that he is yin and she is yang, and if things were to go back to the way they were, she needed to basically become a real reactionary again.
I like your style dude; good example.
I think the Coen's make a subtle point about pacifism/fear at the end of the flick when Donny dies of a heart attack; Walter, who takes control, solves the problem with his actions, we even see the Dude take a swing at the nihilist with the bowling ball ("Fucking ball, man"), but we see Donny run into the background and die because of a heart attack. Maybe doing nothing isn't the answer; gotta draw the line in the sand.
Also, at the end of the flick, the Dude is calm until he explodes on Walter for his ignorance, while Walter remains calm in comforting his buddy, though it's certainly his fault.
I might even go as far as to say the the Dude is passive-aggressive, whereas Walter is over-aggressive.
There are certainly counter examples, such a the scene in the coffee shop, where Walter ends up screaming, whereas the Dude just heads for greener pastures. In general though, I think we see both types of unchecked anger by these two.
I have to say that I, much like the Dude, used to internalise my anger, but hits led to a complete breakdown and a few months off work on prozac-a-like pills. These completely turned my head off, they made me happier again but stopped any creativity (not a good place to be if you’re a dedicated poet and artist as I like to claim I am). OK so I lost the plot a bit there. I now try and express my anger and frustration as it builds to release it. This of course causes much hilarity amongst friends because I will go from Dude like calm to Walter in full rant, then clam back to Dude again. It has to be seen to be understood properly. It would be unrealistic for the Dude not to get angry, but I see what you’re saying they balance each other, as one explodes the other remains cool, then as the first calms the other explodes, yin and yang. Probably why they remain such good friends.
Fuckin A, man.
I see them as two different ways of being Dude, even if Walter is too much of an asshole when taking out the gun for a game. But is there really a difference with the Dude driving, drinking and smoking? Aren't those two ways of being an asshole as everyone of us is sometimes?
Btw if Dude's approach to stress doesn't work then the other way is doing what Walter does.
Well I dig you're style too, man. One has to be really enlightened to bring this new shit to light. You are certainly a Dude among Dudes.
Just musings that I've gathered after watching the movie and thinking about it. I try to parallel my life problems to the movie, and I find more and more often that Walter's approach produces the most calm (for himself). He's calmer than you are. You've got to be incredibly calm to roll out of a fucking car, drop your uzi, have the shots fire around you, and then have the cajones to say "Ah fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling."
WE DIDN'T MAKE THE FUCKIN' HAND-OFF!
I'm sorry sir but you'll have to keep your voice down, this is a family restaurant
I'm not convinced of this. I mean, Walter causes a lot of problems for the Dude with his attitude. Walter's provocation got Dude into the whole mess. Dude was going to just let the carpet-pissing slide but Walter had to go all "draw a line in the sand," man. Dude could'a been sitting at home with just piss stains... Also, Walter's "calm" uzi trick got Dudes car all banged up. Walter is responsible for further damage to Dude's car when he tries to show lil' Sellers what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. And let's not forget, if Walter had just gone along with Dude and Donny and given the nihilists, what, like $20 then Donny would still be with us. Walter is the king of uptight thinking. But that's cool with the Dude, so it's cool with me. You guys do what ya gotta do, but remember, Walter might not be wrong but he's definitely an asshole.
Right, but without Walter to back him up probably the Dude would be fucked in the ass by every stranger around. Sooner or later evryone has to draw a line in the sand. We don't live in Paradise where everyone is good.
Quote from: Matt the Walrus on November 26, 2009, 01:18:26 AM
I'm not convinced of this
Ups and Downs, Dude, Strikes and Gutters. it's all about balance.
I am with the Walrus. Walter was a trouble maker. He made every issue worse with his self righteous aggression. When the Nihilists demanded the money (which was wrong, of course) his invitation to violence indirectly caused Donny's death.
I can't help but wonder what benefits might have come from inviting the Nihilists to sit down over an oat soda and discuss the common ground that the two parties shared. If they had compared notes, like compeers, they may have discovered that both parties had been manipulated and used by the Lebowskis, those rich fucks. They could even have pooled their resources and sued said rich fucks. Instead, they fought amongst themselves, (like those dopey Democrites and Republicant's) and suffered greatly, while the true villains skated. Old man Lebowski got dumped out of his wheelchair, a small price to pay for a million dollars and get out of jail free card. He even evoked some Dudely sympathy, because of one over the top accusation.
That must be exhausting.
I see it this way, Walter has all his emotions/rage/assholeness coming from internal factors like memories of 'Nam, Ex-wife, getting stonewalled by little Larry. When he says Fuckit lets go bowling, he only closes the outburst.
The dude, experiences all external impacts, rugpissing, marmot in the tub, heckuva caucasian, vehicle damages, his door opens outward as if to invite trouble.
The challenge is Donny. He has neither an inside nor an outside. I think the movie is about Donny, dying from a heart attack which comes from neither the inside nor the outside. The story is based on Donny, just like the book "One Flew Over theCuckoo's Nest" is based on and narrated by the Chief, not McMurphy.
Donny is the symbol of balance, the first disciple of dudeism.
Goodnight Sweet Prince.
"I can't help but wonder what benefits might have come from inviting the Nihilists to sit down over an oat soda and discuss the common ground that the two parties shared."
They would have cut their johnsons and given them to the fucking marmot?
Without Walter we would not have the movie as it is today. Would the Big Lebowski have as much as an impact if Walter wasn't there. Sure the Dude could have just had pee stains on his rug, but where would we be? Dudeists we would not be. It is the Tao. The Way
Oh yes I agree, Walter, is an essential part of the developing message. Not all of it an unspoken message. He is the personification of all of the external actions and results. Necessary to necessary to show how the dude becomes sadly a victim most of the time.
All of us will encounter Walters on the "Way" and we may lose a Torino or two, but the brain is the key. Use your brain parts, be they internal, external or harmoniously neither. That'd be yer Tao.
Dude found the path/lane.
Fucking correct dudes, fucking correct.
And, I would add, that without "guard-dog" sheeps die, or are at the mercy of strangers. Because there are wolves around.
Quote from: not_exactly_a_lightweight on November 27, 2009, 06:16:46 PM
All of us will encounter Walters on the "Way" and we may lose a Torino or two, but the brain is the key. Use your brain parts, be they internal, external or harmoniously neither.
People forget that the brain is the biggest erogenous zone.
Are you talking about coitus?
I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand dude!
Before or after coitus? ;D
I don't know, but certainly not during
Fucking A, man. 8)
Quote from: Matt the Walrus on November 26, 2009, 01:18:26 AM
I'm not convinced of this. I mean, Walter causes a lot of problems for the Dude with his attitude. Walter's provocation got Dude into the whole mess. Dude was going to just let the carpet-pissing slide but Walter had to go all "draw a line in the sand," man. Dude could'a been sitting at home with just piss stains... Also, Walter's "calm" uzi trick got Dudes car all banged up. Walter is responsible for further damage to Dude's car when he tries to show lil' Sellers what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass. And let's not forget, if Walter had just gone along with Dude and Donny and given the nihilists, what, like $20 then Donny would still be with us. Walter is the king of uptight thinking. But that's cool with the Dude, so it's cool with me. You guys do what ya gotta do, but remember, Walter might not be wrong but he's definitely an asshole.
I dig your thoughts, dude. My reasoning for seeing Walter as a dudeish type character is that he doesn't let the outside forces influence him, where as the Dude let's Welter get him into trouble, which results in his stress. If the Dude would have drawn the line in the sand, well' y'know...
Also, I dig you dudes. You guys know how to have a great discussion without the aggression and the what-have-yous. Also, there aren't any fucking marmonts around here; good news for my johnson.
Quote from: Conzentration on December 04, 2009, 04:37:46 PM
Also, I dig you dudes. You guys know how to have a great discussion without the aggression and the what-have-yous. Also, there aren't any fucking marmonts around here; good news for my johnson.
Is that what this is a picture of?
Quote from: Conzentration on December 04, 2009, 04:37:46 PM
Also, I dig you dudes. You guys know how to have a great discussion without the aggression and the what-have-yous. Also, there aren't any fucking marmonts around here; good news for my johnson.
Thank you sir. 8)