I have nihilistic tendencies - sometimes, everything just seems pointless and uncertain and unknowable. But these thoughts just fill me with sadness and despair. The inevitable depression keeps me from doing the things I want to do, like writing and going outside.
So instead, I make the conscious decision to follow the ideas and philosophy of Dudeism. A few years ago, I read The Tao of Pooh, and the philosophy of taoism has since had a profound effect on my own philosophy. When, while surfing the Internet one night, I discovered Dudeism, I burst out laughing with glee. It was too perfect for me. I knew I had found something special.
But I still struggle with bouts of depression brought on by thoughts of life's meaninglessness and the pointlessness of trying at all. That's why I'm writing here in this forum. I want to make a declaration of my intention to live life as dudely as I can (hopefully one day without even trying):
I choose to take it easy and go with the flow of life instead of despairing over the pointlessness of it all. I choose to do this because it makes my life easier and happier. I choose to be a dude.
It can be difficult to choose to be something when you naturally tend to be something else, but to paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut, we are what we choose to be, and we must be careful about what we choose to be. I choose to be a Dude, not a nihilist, because if I didn't, my life would be one full of doing nothing because it's pointless. Now, my life will be full of doing whatever comes along because fuck it.
P.S. I got myself ordained a few weeks ago. I can't wait for my certificate of ordination to arrive so I can throw it up on a wall and be all official-like.
I suppose that in the conventional sense I'm a bit of a nihilist.
I don't believe that life or the universe has any inherent meaning or purpose.
But for me that doesn't make it pointless.
I'm generally happy with my own little purposes.
My bike, some beers, some nice babes and the sun shining down.
I work to feed the monkey. The monkey being me and my family.
Not to be at all a "know it all" (for a change) but are you sure there isn't something more than a philosophical quandary at work here? Clinical depression is often biochemical in nature. I know a good many people who suffer from it.
It's a condition like diabetes or whooping cough.
First, I'd like to thank Biker for believe that depression can be biochemical. I've had it since a very young age and none of the pills ever helped (so I stopped).
Second, good job that you identify your own depression. It does take a conscious decision to take it head-on. Just keep in mind something that applies not only to depression, but to life: You'll probably stumble and fall. In fact, there's a chance you'll have a day or week or month that you'll feel like you failed. But as long as you keep it up, you haven't failed. You're a wet machine and every machine needs a little downtime and maintenance.
Just keep going. You'll do it. And welcome to our rug, dude.
First, I'd like to thank Biker for believe that depression can be biochemical. I've had it since a very young age and none of the pills ever helped (so I stopped).
Second, good job that you identify your own depression. It does take a conscious decision to take it head-on. Just keep in mind something that applies not only to depression, but to life: You'll probably stumble and fall. In fact, there's a chance you'll have a day or week or month that you'll feel like you failed. But as long as you keep it up, you haven't failed. You're a wet machine and every machine needs a little downtime and maintenance.
Just keep going. You'll do it. And welcome to our rug, dude.
Welcome dude glad to have you join us. Depression sucks I struggle with it myself and like masked dude meds either made it worse or did nothing. I found counseling and support groups helped me quite a bit find people who struggle themselves and understand is a great help. My counselor focused a great deal on healthy nutrition and sleep. I was truly amazed by how much better I felt just by changing those to things. It's a tough fight sometimes.
Thanks for your replies, you dudes. As a newcomer, I'm really appreciating the community here. Really nice, easy-going folk around here 8)
BikerDude, I sincerely appreciate your advice re: clinical depression. I do recognize that in many many cases there are "bad chemicals" (as Vonnegut - another of my favorite dudes - puts it) to blame for depression. I have gone down the medication road, and it's not something I really think is good for me (though I realize that for many people medication is a necessity). I think for me, it's a matter of, as Masked Dude and The_Sleevez put it, being conscious of it and adjusting my attitude as needed. Also, like you guys said, being sure to take care of myself with good food and sleep and sunshine. And perhaps a little herbal supplement every now and then ;)
The_Sleevez, I am a wee bit wary of support groups, but thanks to your post, I will consider them as an option. So, thanks!
Gonna keep on keepin' on!
Pooh,
The solution to the pointlessness of life, is to create or adopt a point.
What I mean by this, is that meaning is created by humans.
I suspect you may be a bit of an outsider, a different person. This I can relate to.
What you focus on, and dedicate your life to, can be your purpose.
My purpose, is different to your purpose because we are different people.
If you are feeling nihilistic and depressed, I suspect it's because you are not a passionate believer in your 'purpose'. You may not have a purpose yet.
You can adopt a purpose, a cause, or you can create your own. Much like in my other church, The Universal Life Church, you can create your own Ministry.
I find this short message from Henry Rollins in this regard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNgrxgmcwck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNgrxgmcwck)
I see nihilism as less of a statement but more a question. I was heavily nihilistic and depressed at one stage of my life, and as I made the natural progression through personal experiences, out of it I came to a certain perspective of perhaps nihilism should be seen as asking the question "What is the meaning? instead of the direct statement "There is no meaning..
I am not offering this as answer to nihilism or a theory of what nihilism truly means but just as seeds for thoughts of reflection upon existentialism and depression.
Peace, my friends :)
Quote from: Masked Dude on August 08, 2014, 02:28:10 PM
First, I'd like to thank Biker for believe that depression can be biochemical. I've had it since a very young age and none of the pills ever helped (so I stopped).
Second, good job that you identify your own depression. It does take a conscious decision to take it head-on. Just keep in mind something that applies not only to depression, but to life: You'll probably stumble and fall. In fact, there's a chance you'll have a day or week or month that you'll feel like you failed. But as long as you keep it up, you haven't failed. You're a wet machine and every machine needs a little downtime and maintenance.
Just keep going. You'll do it. And welcome to our rug, dude.
I don't suffer from depression.
I know several people who do.
And I don't suggest that the answer is medication.
Depression often has a biochemical aspect. That doesn't suggest that the "cure" or treatment is or should be medication. But it is important for people to recognize that the "problem" they are experiencing is a disease.
Perhaps in inbalance like diabetes. In my experience people often suffer guilt for mental afflictions.
They shouldn't. After that it's up to the experts. I've heard varying results where medications are concerned.
Usually it seems to be trading one regrettable thing for another. But the bottom line is that it is not anyone's fault and people need to seek help from medical professionals.
I don't believe that Nihilism is in any way related to depression.
I'll grant that for a person with depression Nihilism would be a particularly difficult subject.
If the definition of Nihilism is a belief that life and the universe lack inherent meaning then 93 percent of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are Nihilists and in my experience no greater number are afflicted with depression than the average.
Welcome Pooh dude,
I too can get depressed and nihilistic, and through the years have sought various cures... St. John's wort didn't really do much for me, but then I found something called rhodiola rosea. Works like a charm, even if I go off it for a while. It's because of this experience that I agree depression is a brain chemical thing. My health is okay (other than some little annoying things), I make a good living, and I truly believe every day above ground is a good one. I have nothing to bitch about, and a LOT to be thankful for, so I was determined to find something that worked that WASN'T a pharmaceutical with secondary and tertiary side effects. Anyway, that's my story; I can relate to your's and I truly wish you all the luck in the world in finding an answer...
Take'r easy Pooh!!!
Pooh the Dude and Bogbrat, Good to have you both in our dudetopian beach community, mangs; grab a place on the rug and abide, dudes. Bars' over there.
First, let me congratulate and commend you on your decision to take a direction in your life that leads you away from the depression and nihilistic tendencies you feel Pooh the Dude. It's easy to give in to such things, but not so easy to challenge them head-on, especially when that challenge raises it's ugly head again and again and again.
I've suffered from severe depression for as long as I can remember; I hesitate to call it "clinical" depression because I've never been officially diagnosed. Unfortunately, I was reactive rather than proactive. As a child I didn't really know what it was, and as I grew older I just accepted that it would happen to me from time to time. I managed it without really dealing with it, and never thought to seek out a "cure". I was fortunate--about the time I entered my mid-30s the universe saw fit to put a person in my life who also suffered from severe depression from childhood. We became friends, and it wasn't long before she'd "call me" on my pretense that I was fine and everything was normal (what we came to call "the party face"). She recognized it because she'd done it herself for several years but, unlike me, she had taken steps to rid herself of this "affliction". And she was the first person who had ever seriously taken note of it--for decades I had successfully hidden it from my parents, my siblings, my friends, even my wife. Eventually she offered to teach me ways to combat it, just to see if they would help, and I accepted. It took at least a few years, but at some point I came to realize my bouts of depression were occurring less frequently and were becoming less severe. I'm now 53 years old, and haven't had a bad bout for several years. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm cured, but I now know how to control and suppress the depression before it gets out of hand.
The key for me was, as you put it above, "being conscious of it and adjusting my attitude as needed". As I'm sure you're aware, depression affects the way you think and alters your perceptions. It's easy to let it take over, and once that happens those feelings of despondence can easily lead you to believe everything is pointless because you're unable to derive pleasure from anything, and if you're not getting any joy out of life what's the point of living it? I tend to equate it to a fire--if you don't notice it and don't put it out immediately it will consume everything in it's path, but if you locate it and extinguish it as soon as you smell smoke the damage is usually minimal. So that was the main mental "trick" that worked for me--the moment I felt those feelings of depression coming on I'd focus on all of the positive things in my life. Rather than give in to it as I had done in the past, I'd refuse to allow it to take control. Believe me, it sounds easier than it is. As I wrote above it took years for me to "master" this, but now I can do it without really thinking about it if I have to (and I haven't had to for a long, long, long time).
To be clear, I don't recommend this as a course of action for everyone suffering from severe/clinical depression; I'm only saying it worked for me. Try it if you feel you need to, but don't get discouraged if things don't miraculously change for you overnight.
'We are the way of the universe to know itself'
This thought has helped me a lot when struggling with depression, when everything around just seems meaningless and empty, when getting up in the morning feels futile and when you don't want to sleep just because you don't want the next day to come.
All it is is a very small, local mind cage that is created over the years of routine: our jobs, our everyday life, even our entertainment. We get stuck in the same though circle which after a time may become a downward spiral.
In these cases I just think of how small these 'issues' truly are compared to the vastness of the universe. Everything instantly becomes interesting and starts having purpose. Even if your general view on the universe is nihilistic, it only means you have stopped looking for the 'why', but there's always room for the 'how' in knowing the world.
A little consciousness expansion and you'll be back to your normal life, and it won't get beytter or worse, it will stay the same and you won't care for it the same. But you won't care for it in a good way - like all these little problems don't truly matter
It occurs to me that the semi official mental health counselor of Dudeism should be Jimmy Buffett. It's about attitudes Dudes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpsTRbJKoa0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpsTRbJKoa0)
Very related to this topic.
The related material starts at around the 5:30 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzY4f6LQVlI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzY4f6LQVlI)
Quote from: Bullett00th on August 26, 2014, 04:08:15 AM
'We are the way of the universe to know itself'
This thought has helped me a lot when struggling with depression, when everything around just seems meaningless and empty, when getting up in the morning feels futile and when you don't want to sleep just because you don't want the next day to come.
All it is is a very small, local mind cage that is created over the years of routine: our jobs, our everyday life, even our entertainment. We get stuck in the same though circle which after a time may become a downward spiral.
In these cases I just think of how small these 'issues' truly are compared to the vastness of the universe. Everything instantly becomes interesting and starts having purpose. Even if your general view on the universe is nihilistic, it only means you have stopped looking for the 'why', but there's always room for the 'how' in knowing the world.
A little consciousness expansion and you'll be back to your normal life, and it won't get beytter or worse, it will stay the same and you won't care for it the same. But you won't care for it in a good way - like all these little problems don't truly matter
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger. If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth. And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.
More often than not, my own depression didn't need any triggers. I could be in a good mood one moment, and that "darkness" would just start to warsh over this Dude for no apparent reason. It was unreasonable and made no sense. So I'd start to mentally "examine" what could have caused it in an effort to figure out why it was happening, and that would lead to thinking about everything that was "wrong" with my life (both real and imagined) which, of course, accelerated that downward spiral and made the depression worse. And that would become the pattern--feel it coming on, try to figure out why, walk right into that "mind cage" as you called it, and I'd find myself trapped in that cage with all of my most negative thoughts, emotions, and feelings.
It's funny how the mind works sometimes. I'd had these bouts of severe depression so often that every great once in a while the depression was almost comforting in a twisted sort of way. It was familiar, like visiting with an old friend. The trouble is that it was that friend who was a bad influence--the one that always tried to get you to drink too much, cheat on your spouse, start a bar fight, steal a car for a joyride, get thrown in jail, or whatever other fucked up things he/she could get you to do just for his/her own amusement. [By the way, I've never actually done any of those things; I'm only using them as an example to make a point.] On those times I'd feel the depression start and, rather than fight it, I'd just go with it, like slipping into a nice warm bath or a comfortable old bathrobe. "Hello Old Friend. I'll hang out with you for a while, maybe go to the In-N-Out for some burgers, but
I'm gonna drive this time just to make sure we don't get into any trouble." And, on those times, that's how I'd manage it. Yeah, I'm making it sound almost fun here, but now I realize it was really nothing more than a "coping mechanism" that I'd use without really knowing I was doing it. In reality I was one bad decision away from running my car into a retaining wall, having vagrants use it as a toilet, and letting Nihilists set it on fire (figuratively speaking, that is).
Anyway, I'm ramblin' again. My point is that there are a number of biological and/or psychological causes of severe/clinical depression, and what "cures" one person won't necessarily work for another. What's important is that someone who is suffering from severe/clinical depression takes action to find out which cure will work
for them. It's far from easy, and there's usually a great deal of time consuming trial-and-error involved, but it can be done.
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger. If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth. And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.
I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.
Quote from: jgiffin on August 26, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger. If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth. And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.
I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.
+1 dude.
That, and some mindfulness training goes a FUCK of a long way in getting out of your head. Gotta find what works for you; the point is to keep looking. Oh, and beer helps... ;-)
Quote from: jgiffin on August 26, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger. If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth. And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.
I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.
It's important to make that distinction. It's normal for most people to experience depression on occasion for one reason or another--the loss of a loved one, inability to find a good job, learning their significant other has been unfaithful, severe illness or injury, and so on. But severe/clinical depression is an entirely different animal, and I believe that's why people who have experienced that normal short-term depression have such difficulty understanding just how debilitating severe/clinical depression can be. "I've been depressed before and I got over it. Why can't he/she?" They don't (or can't) understand that a severely/clinically depressed person usually has no control over the way they're feeling (especially is the root cause it biological--a chemical imbalance or dysfunction of the dopamine delivery/receptor system in the brain).
I'm very pleased you were able to identify the "problem(s)" in your life and took action to correct the situation; it's not always easy to do that. As for "still working on it", we're
all still working on it; life is a constant work in progress.
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 27, 2014, 03:06:09 AM
As for "still working on it", we're all still working on it; life is a constant work in progress.
Amen, brother Al, amen.
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
Anyway, I'm ramblin' again. My point is that there are a number of biological and/or psychological causes of severe/clinical depression, and what "cures" one person won't necessarily work for another. What's important is that someone who is suffering from severe/clinical depression takes action to find out which cure will work for them. It's far from easy, and there's usually a great deal of time consuming trial-and-error involved, but it can be done.
this is pretty accurate. and rambling you're not, everyone has their own way of dealing with depression and it's always complicated. Everyone's crazy in their own little way.
having tried a psychadelic drug once during a depression (seriously not a good idea) I had a trip deep into the thoughts that haunt me when depressed. It sucked big time, felt like I'm in purgatory, which I don't even believe in, torturing myself psychologically with a sea of doubts and regrets. but you go so deep that eventually you reach the root of each of these thoughts, and once you emerge back with an understanding of their source, it's easier to deal with them once you can analyze them. don't take this as a message 'psychadelics will help you with your depression' - I repeat, it's not a good idea. what is a good idea is trying to analyze them, be it alone, with a friend or with a psychologist. either way these things shouldn't be left hanging.
P.S. And I don't think it's a feeling that comes over the inner Dude. It coexists with the inner Dude.
I think the Dude is often mistaken for a character who is so light hearted because he doesn't truly care about anything. That's why they put a nihilist in the movie methinks, to show the difference. The Dude experiences the full spectrum of emotions: serenity, joy, sadness, anger, fear, apathy - you name it. To me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.
QuoteTo me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.
Insightful Bullett dude... well said.
Quote from: Bullett00th on August 29, 2014, 06:12:25 AMthis is pretty accurate. and rambling you're not, everyone has their own way of dealing with depression and it's always complicated. Everyone's crazy in their own little way.
having tried a psychadelic drug once during a depression (seriously not a good idea) I had a trip deep into the thoughts that haunt me when depressed. It sucked big time, felt like I'm in purgatory, which I don't even believe in, torturing myself psychologically with a sea of doubts and regrets. but you go so deep that eventually you reach the root of each of these thoughts, and once you emerge back with an understanding of their source, it's easier to deal with them once you can analyze them. don't take this as a message 'psychadelics will help you with your depression' - I repeat, it's not a good idea. what is a good idea is trying to analyze them, be it alone, with a friend or with a psychologist. either way these things shouldn't be left hanging...
A LOT of people who suffer from serious/clinical depression try to self-medicate with various substances in an attempt to make themselves feel better. Unfortunately, when that doesn't work the depression usually worsens and many are left with an addiction on top of their depression. In fact, long-term cocaine use, for example, can de-sensitize the dopamine delivery/receptor system in the human brain (commonly known as "building up a tolerance") and make matters even worse.
That said, it sounds as though you turned a "bad" trip into a positive by "facing your demons" and using that experience to examine them to determine why and how they were affecting you. Like you, I can't say I'd recommend your method for everyone, but the results speak for themselves. Well done!
Quote from: Bullett00th on August 29, 2014, 06:12:25 AM...P.S. And I don't think it's a feeling that comes over the inner Dude. It coexists with the inner Dude.
I think the Dude is often mistaken for a character who is so light hearted because he doesn't truly care about anything. That's why they put a nihilist in the movie methinks, to show the difference. The Dude experiences the full spectrum of emotions: serenity, joy, sadness, anger, fear, apathy - you name it. To me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.
I concur with your assessment of the Dude. It's not that he doesn't care, but once he's dealt with a negative occurrence he doesn't dwell on it or allow it to affect him in an adverse way. It's over and done with, and he returns to his pursuit of whatever makes him happy (or at least content).
But in my experience severe/clinical depression doesn't work that way. As I wrote above, it alters the way you think and changes your perceptions (especially if the cause(s) is/are biological). Yes, you
want to feel better or happier, but quite often you don't know why you're depressed so you don't know how to return to feeling happy (and if the cause is biological, you're physically
unable to). And if the depression lasts long enough (I've had it last for as long as a few months) you sort of forget what it's like to feel happy, so it diminishes your motivation to try--you lose sight of that goal and it becomes less important as more time passes. And it can make you lose sight of
all of your goals because you don't see the point in pursuing them if nothing you do gives you pleasure (i.e., the "it's all pointless" perspective).
But, again, I can only speak from my personal experience. Although there are similarities, from what little I know everyone's experience with severe/clinical depression is somewhat different because we are all different, so I don't want to make it sound as though I believe I'm an expert in any way and/or that only my opinions and perspectives on the issue matter. But I do think it's important to discuss it openly and to share our experiences as we're doing here--at the very least, it can help people with severe/clinical depression to realize they're not alone.
Quote from: jgiffin on August 26, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 26, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
That feeling of being "trapped" in a monotonous daily routine can certainly be a trigger. If you end up doing and dealing with the same shit over and over, day after day, it's easy to feel like you're just going through the motions and, once again, question the "point" of life here on Earth. And if you're prone to severe depression, that can drag you right into that downward spiral.
I felt like that for a long time. Finally realized I wasn't clinically, medically, scientifically depressed or what not - I just didn't like the life I had created for myself. Started making the choices I wanted to make instead of those I was led to believe I "should" make. It helped quite a bit. Still working on it. Sometimes it still feels like I'm arm-wrestling myself over shit.
The quote about being trapped in that monotonous routine hit me hard as that's how I feel currently, that and other shit which is just piling on, I was diagnosed with moderate depression a few years back, not sure if the meds made it better or the changes I made did it but with that in mind I get dragged down in the dumps quite easily. To cut to the chase, what you said jgiffin is what I needed to hear I think, so thanks dude, it makes sense now, I feel I can change shit.
Quote from: Hominid on August 29, 2014, 08:49:32 AM
QuoteTo me the greatness of the Dude shines in his ability to maintain his personality despite all of the often quite serious shit that's happened to him. Same goes for depression I believe.
Insightful Bullett dude... well said.
Cheers dude, glad to share the thought!
Quote from: Reverend Al on August 29, 2014, 08:20:11 PM
I concur with your assessment of the Dude. It's not that he doesn't care, but once he's dealt with a negative occurrence he doesn't dwell on it or allow it to affect him in an adverse way. It's over and done with, and he returns to his pursuit of whatever makes him happy (or at least content).
But in my experience severe/clinical depression doesn't work that way. As I wrote above, it alters the way you think and changes your perceptions (especially if the cause(s) is/are biological). Yes, you want to feel better or happier, but quite often you don't know why you're depressed so you don't know how to return to feeling happy (and if the cause is biological, you're physically unable to). And if the depression lasts long enough (I've had it last for as long as a few months) you sort of forget what it's like to feel happy, so it diminishes your motivation to try--you lose sight of that goal and it becomes less important as more time passes. And it can make you lose sight of all of your goals because you don't see the point in pursuing them if nothing you do gives you pleasure (i.e., the "it's all pointless" perspective).
But, again, I can only speak from my personal experience. Although there are similarities, from what little I know everyone's experience with severe/clinical depression is somewhat different because we are all different, so I don't want to make it sound as though I believe I'm an expert in any way and/or that only my opinions and perspectives on the issue matter. But I do think it's important to discuss it openly and to share our experiences as we're doing here--at the very least, it can help people with severe/clinical depression to realize they're not alone.
hm, it's true that depression is different for everyone, but I think it's quite a universal solution to try to dig out the reason of that depression. like you said, 'face your demons', which is surely easier said than done, especially considering the fact that most of them hide in your subconsciousness.
in this case the general 'quest for happiness' becomes sort of irrelevant. It's like being ill and trying to get better just by blowing your nose - sure you'll be able to breathe freely for a few minutes but the source of the illness is still there.
There's another view on depression which helps me turn away from it: depression is MOSTLY a first world problem really. Generally people who get depressed are the ones who have most of the human's primary needs fulfilled. And find it hard to cope with no new goal or artificial goals, while maintaining their current level of life becomes more of a chore every passing day.
As always, try to find joy in the little things. There's nothing grand or overly entertaining in listening to a recording of a bowling game while lying on the rug, but if you learn to truly enjoy it (or whichever small activity brings a smile on your face), it becomes your small shelter from all the 'external' crap. Until somebody punches you in the face and takes the rug away, that is :)
I think one of the scariest aspects of depression at least for myself. Is that you actually can become desensitized to it in that you don't even realize the way you feel is not normal your not supposed to feel like that all the time. One of my most difficult therapy sessions was working through to realize how long I had been suffering depression I didn't remember what it was like to feel truly happy. I had brief moments a week or two here and there but never long term. I just kept pushing on figuring this is life until I finally crash hard enough that people around me realized how bad it was and I was forced to get help. Depression is a tough demon to beat and there is no quick end to it and not usually one reason for it.
Quote from: Bullett00th on September 01, 2014, 06:16:40 AMhm, it's true that depression is different for everyone, but I think it's quite a universal solution to try to dig out the reason of that depression. like you said, 'face your demons', which is surely easier said than done, especially considering the fact that most of them hide in your subconsciousness.
in this case the general 'quest for happiness' becomes sort of irrelevant. It's like being ill and trying to get better just by blowing your nose - sure you'll be able to breathe freely for a few minutes but the source of the illness is still there...
I agree. And I believe a lot of doctors prescribe meds as a "cure" without actually determining the root cause of the patient's depression, and that's why those meds don't work for some people. It's like putting a bandage over a bullet wound without removing the bullet and repairing the damage it caused first--the superficial wound might heal, but the cause of that wound is still going to be there and will likely cause other problems deep down.
Sadly, for whatever reason(s) most people with severe/clinical depression (or almost any other "mental" disorder) don't seek the help they need (myself included) so neither the root cause nor the symptoms get treated. As I wrote earlier in this thread, I was in my mid-30s before the right person entered my life and helped me; before that, it never even
occurred to me to seek help. Thinking back on it, I suppose I considered it to be no different than being born blind, or deaf, or any other non-life-threatening ailment--it was just a part of me that I accepted and dealt with. I mean,
everyone has shit they have to deal with in their lives, right? Why would I think I was different from anyone else? ::)
Quote from: Bullett00th on September 01, 2014, 06:16:40 AM...There's another view on depression which helps me turn away from it: depression is MOSTLY a first world problem really. Generally people who get depressed are the ones who have most of the human's primary needs fulfilled. And find it hard to cope with no new goal or artificial goals, while maintaining their current level of life becomes more of a chore every passing day...
That's interesting, and something I hadn't considered. I suppose in that regard there's also the "keeping up with the Joneses" angle to consider: "Why am I struggling so hard just to make ends meet while my neighbors have better jobs and nicer houses and nicer cars and nicer clothes and nicer (fill-in-the-blank)?" Many of us were raised with that bullshit "American Dream" carrot dangled in front of us, and we're often made to feel like a failure if we don't find a way to achieve those goals. Thank you for the enlightenment!
Quote from: Bullett00th on September 01, 2014, 06:16:40 AM...As always, try to find joy in the little things. There's nothing grand or overly entertaining in listening to a recording of a bowling game while lying on the rug, but if you learn to truly enjoy it (or whichever small activity brings a smile on your face), it becomes your small shelter from all the 'external' crap. Until somebody punches you in the face and takes the rug away, that is :)
I've come to this realization myself as I've gotten older. The more we learn to appreciate the "little" things in life, the more we realize the "rat race" is a lie and a false goal. Life is far more enjoyable when you're not killing yourself trying to live it.
Quote from: The_Sleevez on September 01, 2014, 12:27:40 PMI think one of the scariest aspects of depression at least for myself. Is that you actually can become desensitized to it in that you don't even realize the way you feel is not normal your not supposed to feel like that all the time. One of my most difficult therapy sessions was working through to realize how long I had been suffering depression I didn't remember what it was like to feel truly happy. I had brief moments a week or two here and there but never long term. I just kept pushing on figuring this is life until I finally crash hard enough that people around me realized how bad it was and I was forced to get help. Depression is a tough demon to beat and there is no quick end to it and not usually one reason for it.
Mark it 8, Dudes. It's a constant source of amazement and amusement to me that we can accept things so easily no matter how bad they are, and often fall into that trap of not even trying to make changes for the better. Been there, done that.
The one bit of advice I will offer whatever your thoughts. Talk with a psychiatrist or counselor or both. Doctors do what they can but that's not their discipline. Unless it's a medical chemical imbalance they can give you meds. But as my psychiatrist explained it most depression meds are designed to help you make it through counseling. They are a crutch to help while you face the worst of your problems until you can cope on your own but you need a professional to guide you there. Plus they generally have a better idea as to which meds will help your problems more. Just my opinion with a bit of life experience.
Quote from: The_Sleevez on September 01, 2014, 06:13:34 PM
The one bit of advice I will offer whatever your thoughts. Talk with a psychiatrist or counselor or both. Doctors do what they can but that's not their discipline. Unless it's a medical chemical imbalance they can give you meds. But as my psychiatrist explained it most depression meds are designed to help you make it through counseling. They are a crutch to help while you face the worst of your problems until you can cope on your own but you need a professional to guide you there. Plus they generally have a better idea as to which meds will help your problems more. Just my opinion with a bit of life experience.
Sound advice. I'd also add that if someone sees a psychiatrist or counselor for help and doesn't feel they're getting the help they need, they should find another psychiatrist or counselor. It can get discouraging going from doctor to doctor, but once you find the right psychiatrist or counselor for you it can make all the difference in the world.
Quote from: Reverend Al on September 01, 2014, 08:53:28 PM
Quote from: The_Sleevez on September 01, 2014, 06:13:34 PM
The one bit of advice I will offer whatever your thoughts. Talk with a psychiatrist or counselor or both. Doctors do what they can but that's not their discipline. Unless it's a medical chemical imbalance they can give you meds. But as my psychiatrist explained it most depression meds are designed to help you make it through counseling. They are a crutch to help while you face the worst of your problems until you can cope on your own but you need a professional to guide you there. Plus they generally have a better idea as to which meds will help your problems more. Just my opinion with a bit of life experience.
Sound advice. I'd also add that if someone sees a psychiatrist or counselor for help and doesn't feel they're getting the help they need, they should find another psychiatrist or counselor. It can get discouraging going from doctor to doctor, but once you find the right psychiatrist or counselor for you it can make all the difference in the world.
I agree with these comments completely! I am in the process of doing this right now (switching) and although it isn't always the easiest thing to do, it will be well worth it in the end. Its a HUGE help to have a counselor and/or psychiatrist that is on the same page as you!
I wish I could find a psychiatrist who could help. The problem is this state has cut mental health from the budget a long time ago. Also, I don't have insurance and can't afford the private psych clinics.
So for me, it's a case of living with it.
Yeah that's always the tough part mental health care is woefully under funded everywhere. There isn't the out cry about it because of the stigma attached so people don't realize how tough it is to get help. I have been lucky enough that there are still government asisted programs here in Canada. They have been cutting like crazy but there is still programs to help.
Up until a few years ago, they'd fund mental health care if you had one failed substance abuse attempt. Now... How does an addict get help now? (I'm not an addict.)
They also cut the mental health care for the incarcerated. To which I told my psychologist friend, don't you think they need help to stay out? She said I figured out in 5 seconds what these jackholes couldn't in years of debate.
Quote from: Masked Dude on September 02, 2014, 12:25:53 PM...They also cut the mental health care for the incarcerated. To which I told my psychologist friend, don't you think they need help to stay out? She said I figured out in 5 seconds what these jackholes couldn't in years of debate.
That's because the jackholes really don't care about the inmates beyond what it costs to "maintain" them. And the prison systems here in the U.S. are just as corrupt as the political systems. For example, one of their tricks is to stage a lockdown for no real reason just so they can justify keeping the staff on the job longer so they can get paid exhorbitant amounts of overtime. Tommy Chong has spoken about this during interviews about his incarceration, and a friend who was incarcerated in Arizona for two years told me the same thing. Where's the money, Lebowski? It's in the pockets of those people who are in a position to take advantage of the system and milk it dry; it sure as shit isn't going to the people who really need it.
Remember, the US prison system is mainly run by FOR PROFIT companies now. The more people locked up, the higher the profits. The more dangerous you make them sound, the more you can charge for guards and fancy jail equipment.
Huge lobby by the prison business always pushing for more laws against more stuff.
An interesting article on the subject has come to light:
Quote
What If Everything We Know About Treating Depression Is Wrong? (http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/what-if-everything-we-know-about-treating-depression-wrong)
A new study is challenging the relationship between depression and an imbalance of serotonin levels in the brain, and brings into doubt how depression has been treated in the U.S. over the past 20 years.