The other half of the Dudeist yin-yang, Walter, has been confusing me with his place in Dudeism. Got some questions fer ya:
-Is it "right" to draw a line in the sand, or say "fuck it" as the Dude would have us?
-Walter was right about the toe and the girl kidnapping himself. In these moments I noticed the Dude was acting very undude. What's your take on this?
-Another thing dudes, like, sure Walter fucks up man. He fucks up alot.
But was he right in keeping his money from the Nihilists? The Dude was willing to end it cheap, but Walter wanted to stand and fight. What is the Dudeist take on this? Was he wrong? Even better question, was his desire to fight responsible for Donny's death?
Just where does he fit in to all of this? Too many strands in old duder's head, not enough caucasians.
Quote from: Laughing Dude on January 05, 2009, 06:21:01 PM
The other half of the Dudeist yin-yang, Walter, has been confusing me with his place in Dudeism. Got some questions fer ya:
-Is it "right" to draw a line in the sand, or say "fuck it" as the Dude would have us?
-Walter was right about the toe and the girl kidnapping himself. In these moments I noticed the Dude was acting very undude. What's your take on this?
-Another thing dudes, like, sure Walter fucks up man. He fucks up alot.
But was he right in keeping his money from the Nihilists? The Dude was willing to end it cheap, but Walter wanted to stand and fight. What is the Dudeist take on this? Was he wrong? Even better question, was his desire to fight responsible for Donny's death?
Just where does he fit in to all of this? Too many strands in old duder's head, not enough caucasians.
I think that Walter WAS right in standing up to the Nihilists because if they were dealing with REAL Nihilists, instead of a bunch of "fuckin' crybabies" what would have stopped them from killing The Dude, Walter, and Donny? Absolutely nothing. And I can't say that his desire to fight had anything to do with Donny's death, because it seems to me that the heart attack started while they were INSIDE the bowling alley.
That's fucking interesting, that's fucking interesting.
The Dude and Walter are both archetyptes of the inner truth taught in the film. Just look at the Dudeist symbol-conjoined bowling balls that are each an aspect of the other. Each dude is in his/herself composed of that aspect which gives a shit about the rules, and that aspect which says eh fuck it. They may seem opposed but are actually co-necessary and complementary to each other. But despite my words, only you can decide when to draw a line in the sand or mark it 8.
No he's not wrong, he's just an asshole.
Walter was wrong to stand up to the nihilists there fried died of a heart attack man so uncool total bummer , give the money save ya friend the dude dont care
Book 2 , verse 2 -
Money is the root of all evil. It's also the root of all good stories, so hooray for money.
Quote from: Duderek on September 07, 2009, 02:47:16 PM
Walter was wrong to stand up to the nihilists there fried died of a heart attack man so uncool total bummer , give the money save ya friend the dude dont care
That was actually the only time in the whole film that i disagreed w/Walter.
He needs to chillax some more
I would like to prescribe to the Taoist theory of balances, and say this:
Without the Walter, there would be no Dude. Without the Dude, there would be no Walter.
Without the comparison, one could not measure Dudeness. I personally think Walter is the opposite of the Sage, what the Tao Te Ching usually refers to as the layman, the fool, or the regular person. He is rash, impulsive, and angry, yet he still supports and longs to be in the Dude's good graces. He is a learner, albeit a goddamn moron, and the Dude is willing to accept that.
On a more literal note, if Walter didn't exist, the Dude very well might not have been alive to spread his Dudeness, and perhaps visa versa.
But that's just my opinion, man.
The Dude Abides,
Brother Bodhi
Quote from: Big Bodhi on December 22, 2009, 01:06:59 PM
I would like to prescribe to the Taoist theory of balances, and say this:
Without the Walter, there would be no Dude. Without the Dude, there would be no Walter.
Without the comparison, one could not measure Dudeness. I personally think Walter is the opposite of the Sage, what the Tao Te Ching usually refers to as the layman, the fool, or the regular person. He is rash, impulsive, and angry, yet he still supports and longs to be in the Dude's good graces. He is a learner, albeit a goddamn moron, and the Dude is willing to accept that.
On a more literal note, if Walter didn't exist, the Dude very well might not have been alive to spread his Dudeness, and perhaps visa versa.
But that's just my opinion, man.
The Dude Abides,
Brother Bodhi
Fuckin' A-men, Dude.
Yeah, you said it right.
Well in my opinion there are varying aspects of being a dude. The Dude and Walter are the extremes of dude. Walter is like almost a paladin dude where he stands for what he believes in and is willing to fight for himself and his friends, the fact that he was right or wrong or simply was talking out his ass only meant he was willing to fight for something he believed in, I think Nam was another reference of this, he often referred to his buddies dying face down in the mud to up-hold freedom (what they believed in) which only strengthens his resolve BUT regardless of he acts he is still in every essence a dude. The Dude is more of a Monk, he was given a task and he merely wished to carry it out, the entire movie he had the best interests of what he thought was a captive girl in mind in each decision that he made, he sought a balanced outcome where everyone got a fair deal.
Now take into consideration, the dude was functioning to the best of his ability considering that his life had been threatened, people where working against him, his car was stolen yet he still tried to make things right.
Also my opinion of Drawing a line, and marking it 8 is that, A: You define your reality, its you that decides the value of your score.
B: You are the master of your destiny
You can have your cake and eat it too. Think of it as some sort of dialectical sort of thing. Dude is the thesis. Walter is the anti-thesis.
Still, I must confess to having no idea what the synthesis is. But as Hegel said, "The owl of Minerva spreads it's wings only with the falling of the dusk."
That's it, Dudeism needs a Third Way. But I have no idea who will serve as our Buddha.
Friends like these, huh Gary.
Quote from: triviadude on January 26, 2010, 02:17:25 AM
You can have your cake and eat it too. Think of it as some sort of dialectical sort of thing. Dude is the thesis. Walter is the anti-thesis.
Still, I must confess to having no idea what the synthesis is. But as Hegel said, "The owl of Minerva spreads it's wings only with the falling of the dusk."
That's it, Dudeism needs a Third Way. But I have no idea who will serve as our Buddha.
Do you mean Thoedore Herzel?
Quote from: triviadude on January 26, 2010, 02:17:25 AM
You can have your cake and eat it too. Think of it as some sort of dialectical sort of thing. Dude is the thesis. Walter is the anti-thesis.
Still, I must confess to having no idea what the synthesis is. But as Hegel said, "The owl of Minerva spreads it's wings only with the falling of the dusk."
That's it, Dudeism needs a Third Way. But I have no idea who will serve as our Buddha.
The Dudely Lama?
Ha ha. I wish I was anywhere near as awesome as the Dude or Walter.
I think there doesn't need to be a synthesis because, like the yin yang itself, the two sort of bleed into each other. the Dude sometimes becomes like Walter, and Walter sometimes out dudes the dude. This is also true of another great story: Don Quixote. Quixote and Sancho Panza sort of influence each other in the course of the book. See: https://www.h-net.org/~cervantes/csa/articw88/pope.htm
The Hegelian model (thesis, antithesis, synthesis - i.e. linear or perhaps a spiral) and the Yin Yang model (rise and fall of yin and yang - i.e. largely circular) are just models used to illustrate patterns. I don't think they are always congruent and perhaps apply to different types of abstractions.
Then again, you could say that the synthesis is the Tao, the path we walk through life, sometimes Dude, sometimes Walter - and maybe sometimes Donnie, sometimes Maude, sometimes Jackie, etc. Maybe the Dudeist yin yang has more than two sides? In other words, the synthesis between the Dude and Walter is the movement of history, the emergence of novelty, and the blathering of good stories.
All this being said, I'd hate to see people trying to cultivate their inner Walter. This isn't Sobchakism! Someone else can put that religion together. The world needs all kinds, but we're trying to make sure it doesn't run out of the Dude side of things. I'm sure the military industrial complex can keep us well stocked in Walters.
If we could be able to think in more than three dimensions probably Tao would have more too. That's interesting.
"The world needs all kinds, but we're trying to make sure it doesn't run out of the Dude side of things."
This is pretty good, I dig your style man. ;D
And Sobchakism, that's great! At least it's an ethos, and much better than Nihilism.
Anihow I still vote for the Dudely Lama as our Dudely Buddha. ;D Or the Dudely Tzu. Or whathaveyou.
Some people have labeled the Dude and Walter as "co-dependent." Personally I think "co-dependent" is bullshit psycho-babble crap out of the 80's.
I prefer to look at in a more positive light; that is to say that the Dude and Walter derived strength from each other throughout the movie. Problem is I'm not sure where Donny fit into the Dude and Walter. Donny always seems like a side line player in the whole scheme of things.
I think they make a good Tao together. Donny is, well, he was a surfer, but maybe he was too much Yin?
Quote from: digitalbuddha on February 01, 2010, 02:11:44 AM
Some people have labeled the Dude and Walter as "co-dependent." Personally I think "co-dependent" is bullshit psycho-babble crap out of the 80's.
I prefer to look at in a more positive light; that is to say that the Dude and Walter derived strength from each other throughout the movie. Problem is I'm not sure where Donny fit into the Dude and Walter. Donny always seems like a side line player in the whole scheme of things.
Donny was a good bowler. They needed 3 bowlers to make a team and Donny, by his relaxed surfer nature, was able to get along with both Walter and the Dude, despite their polar opposite personalities. He was the walrus.
Thats the part I will never understand, there are 2 on a bowling team, 3 on a holy religious triumvirate. So Liam and Jesus were kind of playing against a stacked deck, no chance in, um, well my opinion.
Dude Donny and Walter could rewrite the book on teamwork. Or scorecard, am I wrong? In general, Donny doesn't get the credit he deserves for pulling the plot together, you know, by not being there. Or meeting his maker, the ulimate nihilist, at the right time, before Arthur Digby Sellers. There is an unspoken message here.
So are we saying our holy trinity is:
The Dude, Walter, and Donny?
Quote from: not_exactly_a_lightweight on February 02, 2010, 12:34:05 AM
Thats the part I will never understand, there are 2 on a bowling team, 3 on a holy religious triumvirate. So Liam and Jesus were kind of playing against a stacked deck, no chance in, um, well my opinion.
There are definitely three on each team, not two. When Donny points at Smokey's team and says "You guys are dead in the water." you can clearly see three pacifists on the team.
Same with Jesus and Liam, you can clearly see another pederast sitting behind and to the left of Liam just after Jesus throws his strike and points to them.
All the teams are trinities, just some are more holy than others, I'd say.
Donny tied the whole film together.
Donny gets a strike everytime he bowls 'cept just before his heart attack.
Donny says profound things throughout the movie but is misheard, or not heard or ignored throughout.
Donny was a surfer in his youth...therefore by my experience of surfers, a chilled out guy always riding high on Adrenaline, asking profound Koans like "Where is the next wave?"
Donny was a dude. He is never undude in the whole TBL experience. Even the Dude acts undude at some points.
But hey that's just like my opinion dudes.
Donny tied the whole film together.
Donny gets a strike everytime he bowls 'cept just before his heart attack.
Donny says profound things throughout the movie but is misheard, or not heard, or ignored throughout.
Donny was a surfer in his youth...therefore by my experience of surfers, a chilled out guy always riding high on Adrenaline, asking profound Koans like "Where is the next wave?"
Donny was a dude. He is never undude in the whole TBL experience. Even the Dude acts undude at some points.
But hey that's just like my opinion dudes.
Sorry guys it posted twice...apologies....n caucasians all round...hey man I just got paid...spread the wealth 8)
Quote from: Caesar dude on February 02, 2010, 02:18:48 PM
Donny says profound things throughout the movie...
I agree... profound things like "Whatta need that for, Dude?" and "How come you don't bowl on Saturday Walter?".
These are important lines that really tie the movie together.
Donny is the only one who is never stressed throughout. And the one time he encounters stress, he is so unaccustomed he experiences a heart attack and dies.
Truly, Donny is a victim of the Dude becoming very undude by being influenced by Walter and his desire to retrieve his valued possession.
I shall now quote Lao Tse in a proverb that I believe ties the whole story together...
"There is no greater curse than the lack of contentment;
No greater sin than the desire for possession"
- Lao Tse
Donny dies for the sin of the Dude's lack of contentment and his desire for a possession, the rug.
Hey Bartender,
Yeah and Donny also as a very limited backstory, we hear of Donny's past only in the heartfelt eulogy of Walter. Yet we can infer many things about Walter and the Dudes past throughout the movie.
Walter is a very underestimated but hugely powerful character.
But hey that's just my opinion man.
Damn, clearly I lost my train of thought in that last post...I obviously meant Donny is underestimted but powerful....
Sheesh!
Some interesting things about Donny:
Donny is the only one of the three that we ever see bowling ball on the lanes.
Donny is positive, happy and generally confused by the anger and negativity of both Walter and the Dude. He never gets involved in any part of the rug/Bunny problem. He appears relaxed and contented in almost every scene. Donny is actually more Dude-like than the Dude.
He says little, but is told to shut the fuck up repeatedly, which I find interesting.
The other strange thing is that Donny has no family whatsoever. Only Walter and the Dude are the bereaved and are present for the ash scattering. As if Donny was immaculately conceived, perhaps this is why the Stranger didn't like seeing Donny go.
Again, back to my prior post, he dies for the Dude and Walter's sin of possession and lack of contentment.
You never see Donny with anything other than the bowling ball and the clothes on his back.
Be content with what you have, rejoice in the way things are.
When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.
- Lao Tse
Quote from: meekon5 on February 02, 2010, 07:00:48 AM
So are we saying our holy trinity is:
The Dude, Walter, and Donny?
Donny _is_ a ghost at the end, and we dont know if he comes back in 3 days, or more. But that's for the sequel. But without Donny the movie would be um, less, not tied, whats the word I am looking for...?
Quote from: Bartender on February 01, 2010, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: digitalbuddha on February 01, 2010, 02:11:44 AM
Some people have labeled the Dude and Walter as "co-dependent." Personally I think "co-dependent" is bullshit psycho-babble crap out of the 80's.
I prefer to look at in a more positive light; that is to say that the Dude and Walter derived strength from each other throughout the movie. Problem is I'm not sure where Donny fit into the Dude and Walter. Donny always seems like a side line player in the whole scheme of things.
Donny was a good bowler. They needed 3 bowlers to make a team and Donny, by his relaxed surfer nature, was able to get along with both Walter and the Dude, despite their polar opposite personalities. He was the walrus.
I dont think there was 3 on a bowling team. Smokey and Gilbert. Jesus and Liam. I dont see the connection. Holy Trinity yes, bowling team no. But then again I have never bowled competitively. so can someone fill me in here, I am out of my element.
What I found slightly freaky is that only having watched the movie a few weeks ago I happen to dress exactly like the Dude and Walter (not at the same time of course and depending on what I'm doing) for as long as I can remember.
Mostly I am fairly laid back but I spent 10 years in the reserves.
The Dude and Walter are like my Yin and Yang incarnate.
I have a feeling this is why my daughter gave me the tape.
Fuckin' amateurs.
Look at the bottom line.
WALTER
Gender: Masculine
Usage: English, German, Scandinavian, Polish, Italian, Ancient Germanic
Pronounced: WAWL-tər (English), VAHL-ter (German, Polish, Italian) [key]
From a Germanic name meaning "ruler of the army", composed of the elements wald "rule" and hari "army". The Normans brought it to England, where it replaced the Old English cognate Wealdhere. A famous bearer of the name was Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832), a Scottish novelist who wrote 'Ivanhoe' and other notable works.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DONALD
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Scottish, English
Pronounced: DAHN-əld (English) [key]
From the Gaelic name Domhnall which means "ruler of the world", composed of the old Celtic elements dumno "world" and val "rule". This was the name of two 9th-century kings of the Scots and Picts. It has traditionally been very popular in Scotland, and during the 20th century it became common in the rest of the English-speaking world.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEOFFREY
Gender: Masculine
Usage: English
Pronounced: JEF-ree [key]
From a Norman French form of a Germanic name. The second element is Germanic frid "peace", but the first element may be either gawia "territory", walah "stranger" or gisil "hostage". It is possible that two or more names merged into a single form. In the later Middle Ages Geoffrey was further confused with the distinct name Godfrey.
This name was introduced to England by the Normans, where it became common among the nobility. Famous medieval literary bearers include the 12th-century chronicler Geoffrey of Monmouth and the 14th-century poet Geoffrey Chaucer, writer of 'The Canterbury Tales'. By the end of the Middle Ages it had become uncommon, but it was revived in the 20th century, often in the spelling Jeffrey.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAUDE leads to
MAUD leads to
MATILDA
Gender: Feminine
Usage: English, Swedish, Finnish, Slovak
Pronounced: mə-TIL-də (English) [key]
From the Germanic name Mahthildis meaning "strength in battle", from the elements maht "might, strength" and hild "battle". Saint Matilda was the wife of the 10th-century German king Henry I the Fowler. The name was brought to England by the Normans, being borne by the wife of William the Conqueror himself. It was popular until the 15th century in England, usually in the vernacular form Maud. Both forms were revived by the 19th century. This name appears in the popular Australian folk song 'Waltzing Matilda', written in 1895.
(Strongly Vaginal)
I mean cmon brother Shamuses. The tip off should be Bunny.
American for "like a rabbit". How much clearer could it be.
I'm gonna go find a cash machine.
Quote from: BikerDude on July 30, 2010, 01:08:49 PM
Fuckin' amateurs.
Look at the bottom line.
WALTER
Gender: Masculine
Usage: English, German, Scandinavian, Polish, Italian, Ancient Germanic
Pronounced: WAWL-tər (English), VAHL-ter (German, Polish, Italian) [key]
From a Germanic name meaning "ruler of the army", composed of the elements wald "rule" and hari "army". The Normans brought it to England, where it replaced the Old English cognate Wealdhere. A famous bearer of the name was Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832), a Scottish novelist who wrote 'Ivanhoe' and other notable works.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DONALD
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Scottish, English
Pronounced: DAHN-əld (English) [key]
From the Gaelic name Domhnall which means "ruler of the world", composed of the old Celtic elements dumno "world" and val "rule". This was the name of two 9th-century kings of the Scots and Picts. It has traditionally been very popular in Scotland, and during the 20th century it became common in the rest of the English-speaking world.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEOFFREY
Gender: Masculine
Usage: English
Pronounced: JEF-ree [key]
From a Norman French form of a Germanic name. The second element is Germanic frid "peace", but the first element may be either gawia "territory", walah "stranger" or gisil "hostage". It is possible that two or more names merged into a single form. In the later Middle Ages Geoffrey was further confused with the distinct name Godfrey.
This name was introduced to England by the Normans, where it became common among the nobility. Famous medieval literary bearers include the 12th-century chronicler Geoffrey of Monmouth and the 14th-century poet Geoffrey Chaucer, writer of 'The Canterbury Tales'. By the end of the Middle Ages it had become uncommon, but it was revived in the 20th century, often in the spelling Jeffrey.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAUDE leads to
MAUD leads to
MATILDA
Gender: Feminine
Usage: English, Swedish, Finnish, Slovak
Pronounced: mə-TIL-də (English) [key]
From the Germanic name Mahthildis meaning "strength in battle", from the elements maht "might, strength" and hild "battle". Saint Matilda was the wife of the 10th-century German king Henry I the Fowler. The name was brought to England by the Normans, being borne by the wife of William the Conqueror himself. It was popular until the 15th century in England, usually in the vernacular form Maud. Both forms were revived by the 19th century. This name appears in the popular Australian folk song 'Waltzing Matilda', written in 1895.
(Strongly Vaginal)
I mean cmon brother Shamuses. The tip off should be Bunny.
American for "like a rabbit". How much clearer could it be.
I'm gonna go find a cash machine.
Brilliant! Fuckin' brilliant!!
pretty cool. but donny's name was actually theodore.
which maybe suits his character more than "ruler of the world." or not. hmm...
From the Greek name Θεοδωρος (Theodoros), which meant "gift of god" from Greek θεος (theos) "god" and δωρον (doron) "gift". This was the name of several saints, including Theodore of Amasea, a 4th-century Greek soldier; Theodore of Tarsus, a 7th-century archbishop of Canterbury; and Theodore the Studite, a 9th-century Byzantine monk. It was also borne by two popes.
This was a common name in classical Greece, and, due to both the saints who carried it and the favourable meaning, it came into general use in the Christian world, being especially popular among Eastern Christians. It was however rare in Britain before the 19th century. Famous bearers include three tsars of Russia (in the Russian form Fyodor) and American president Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919).
Quote from: forumdude on September 09, 2010, 05:55:43 AM
pretty cool. but donny's name was actually theodore.
which maybe suits his character more than "ruler of the world." or not. hmm...
From the Greek name Θεοδωρος (Theodoros), which meant "gift of god" from Greek θεος (theos) "god" and δωρον (doron) "gift". This was the name of several saints, including Theodore of Amasea, a 4th-century Greek soldier; Theodore of Tarsus, a 7th-century archbishop of Canterbury; and Theodore the Studite, a 9th-century Byzantine monk. It was also borne by two popes.
This was a common name in classical Greece, and, due to both the saints who carried it and the favourable meaning, it came into general use in the Christian world, being especially popular among Eastern Christians. It was however rare in Britain before the 19th century. Famous bearers include three tsars of Russia (in the Russian form Fyodor) and American president Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919).
The things you learn online. Nice edition, man!