Audio.
https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/morality-and-the-christian-god
BikerDude: can the Swami please get a hug, man? (Arms out, reaching for a hug). 8)
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 13, 2014, 04:08:32 PM
BikerDude: can the Swami please get a hug, man? (Arms out, reaching for a hug). 8)
Rev., actually, I would be interested in your response to the comments of "Morality and the Christian God." And, how would you relate it to Dudeism? Thoughts, Rev. Iconocclesiastes?
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on January 13, 2014, 08:12:01 PM
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 13, 2014, 04:08:32 PM
BikerDude: can the Swami please get a hug, man? (Arms out, reaching for a hug). 8)
Rev., actually, I would be interested in your response to the comments of "Morality and the Christian God." And, how would you relate it to Dudeism? Thoughts, Rev. Iconocclesiastes?
Please call me "Swami" or "The Swami", depending on the context of course.
As to your question: nah, not right now, man. Look: I am am here for intellectual stimulation, to gain a sense of "community" among the mellow fellowship of the Dudeists, and to a share a few laughs of course. I am here here to hang out and to share a "Verse From a Sacred Text Other Than the Bible of the Week". Maybe we can have a few Caucasians together in the evenings, and also something more exotic from time to time.
I
am not here to argue with anybody, and I will not argue with anybody. Also: I do not even read much of the material that the atheists post here, much at all.
Let's just chill together, man. Cool? Can we just start over, everybody? Mark it zero for the ol' Swami?
*Hand to forehead and slowly shaking head, side to side*
You are like, um, acting like, Quintana. You are all like, see you next Wednesday, then want to mark it zero.
You have made your bed, suck it up and sleep in it.
You are seriously confusing the Shagbeard... You tell everyone to call you a Hindu teacher, yet school them on Christianity. I have forgotten more on theology than most seminaries have learned and do not step up to school people on it unless they want it. The Creative force by whatever one wants to call it, whether that be Vril, Darkmatter, God, Almighty etc is not being put into a box for debate. Try to be taking it easy and not stirring the reactionary responses of the place.
Take er easy
Well said Reverand Shagbeard...well said indeed! My thoughts exactly. A Swami Christian? How confusin
Now lets ignore the Twunt!
Peace to you my friend.
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 14, 2014, 01:05:32 PM
Please call me "Swami" or "The Swami", depending on the context of course.
Dude is an Honorific here applied to all (male or female) as equals. To refuse it is actually an insult.
"Swami" means teacher and you are peddling nothing I want, so I not believe you deserve the title.
Quote from: Rev. Shagbeard on January 14, 2014, 04:43:57 PM
... You tell everyone to call you a Hindu teacher, yet school them on Christianity...
I can only agree with Shagbeard.
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 14, 2014, 01:05:32 PM
...Also: I do not even read much of the material that the atheists post here, much at all.
Then why bother actually joining the forum?
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 14, 2014, 01:05:32 PM
I am here here to hang out and to share a "Verse From a Sacred Text Other Than the Bible of the Week".
Your agreement with Oliver (the Dudley Lama) is not a license to just post rubbish.
(Oliver I don't mean to talk for you, please correct me if I'm wrong)
You christians confuse Oliver with Jesus, or the Pope, when the proper comparison is with buddha.
Oliver is not the sole source of Dudeism, he is the one who found the path and is joining the rest of us on the path of discovery, he is not Pope, dictating all that is Dudeism.
OK, so call me Dude, man. I didn't mean to insult anybody.
Also: "Swami" means "master of the mind and senses", as in "master over oneself". Its female form is "Swamini".
It's just a nickname. Geeez. Please don't call me any names (like "Twunt"), either. That's juvenile.
I'm not here to teach anybody anything, or to impose some hidden agenda on the group. I am here for intellectual stimulation, and to make some new acquaintances in the Dudeist community. I'm not here to scam anybody.
Honestly, I didn't mean to start an uproar. You dudes need to mellow out, if you ask me.
Mellowing out also means not calling others haters or cowards, or saying their words are meaningless so you aren't reading them.
Quote from: Masked Dude on January 15, 2014, 04:39:25 PM
Mellowing out also means not calling others haters or cowards, or saying their words are meaningless so you aren't reading them.
Fair enough, man.
Some of the atheist dudes that frequent this forum seem as intolerant of others' beliefs as any fundamentalist (of any persuasion) that I ever met. Bring up the Bible or some verse from it, and they're ready to cut off your Johnson.
Most of the atheist and anti-theist blathering that goes on in here, I do not even read. Why are they so
angry, these dudes?
I can't speak for all atheists. Hell, I can't and won't even speak for my brother, also an atheist. In general, we are not angry. You probably know atheists in your personal life but don't know it. Religious fundamentalists are always worse than the alternative. You want to know why we get our hackles up when a religious person, zealot, or fundie starts insulting us? Let me give you a little insight.
There are no support groups or friendly faces for us to turn to. You have other denominations who will rush to your aid, despite serious differences in belief. Adult vs Infant baptism? Doesn't matter. Does Matthew 5:17 say no OT rules apply or do they still apply? Doesn't matter. Should we ignore Paul's writing despite his extremely close friendship with high Romans, including the emperor? Doesn't matter. You bring in an atheist and suddenly we're the enemy. We're told we're the cause of the world's ills and that we serve Satan, consciously or subconsciously, and therefore deserve to die (Deutoronomy 17).
Furthermore, we have Facebook groups and websites calling for the rape, torture, and murder of atheists for no other reason than we don't believe. Facebook refuses to shut these pages and groups down.
We're called haters because we find fault with all holy books, not just yours. I can find faults in the Bible, Torah, Qur'an, Eddas, Bhagavad Gita, Hubbard books, Five Classics, Upanishads... should I go on? If you believe, fine, go right ahead. But to say I'm uneducated or a hater?
We're cowards? Some of us can't even tell our own families that we're atheists. Put yourself in my place and a former French & Irish Catholic and refusing Confirmation. You don't know the shit I went through, being 18 and having to stand up to a Bronx Irish dad and a French-Canadian mother and saying you will not take part in one of the most important rites in Catholicism.
Cowards? I have had people tell me to my face they have no problem killing atheists because, they believe, atheists have nothing to live for. They didn't know I'm atheist, and I couldn't tell them or be friends anymore lest it come out.
There are LGBTQ groups. There are womens' rights groups. There are victims groups. Those are all wonderful, useful groups for any civilized country. There are NO groups calling for atheists to be treated fairly. We're "Them."
We are told by theists -- Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Shinto, Buddhists, anyone -- that either we're idiots or we lack sufficient religious upbringing. We're intolerant of religious people forcing their religion onto us in the guise of useful laws of our country.
You can bring up a Bible verse, and we're expected to bow down as if you just gleaned some wonderful knowledge handed down from high. We quote from a thinker -- Hawking, Harris, Jefferson, Einstein, Hitchens, anyone -- and it's ignored because it's just from some man. Why is your holy book supposed to be the end of all discussions, but we can't use a wise man's words? Why is your holy book better or holier or truer than another holy book?
Despite what Kirk Cameron and his BFF Ray Comfort say, there are not areas in this country where Christians are not allowed to practice their faith. There are laws that don't even allow us atheists to hold public office, despite the case of Torcaso v. Watkins which says otherwise.
No one ever asks an atheists what he believes; he is told what he believes by someone who has not been there. Most atheists were raised in homes with religion. We know your faith, your belief, your religion. Do you know how we feel? How we think? Why we eschewed religion and dogma?
Over 99% of atheists are fine with you believing. I for one will fight for your right to worship and believe, even if I don't agree or understand why you clutch to it. What we want is the respect and understanding. We are humans, all of us. Why should your religion be the only one listened to, but our thoughts should be ignored?
When you come in here and start giving out verses, we've heard them all. I've read many holy books all the way through more than once. I know your holy book. I still have mine, as it was a gift. My Muslim friend told me I have a good Qur'an. I probably have read the Bible (with and without Apocrypha) more than most Christians. We don't want more Biblical verses.
You're glad you believe. Fine. But to determine I have nothing to say because I have no deity? I feel the same awe and wonder at our blue ball in space than you do, just not for the same reason.
We're not intolerant of your beliefs. You came in here, insisted we listen, start a holy thread, say we're haters & cowards, and expect us not to respond? What would you do if a Satanist came in here and quoted Anton LaVey? What would you do if a Muslim told you Jesus was just a prophet and not Adonai/God incarnate? What if a total Walter came in and said we're all just lazy pot-smoking drunks?
Now imagine that, but imagine everyone doing that to you every day of your life. Religions attack us. Good people suddenly lose their minds when it comes to atheists.
The reason some are ready to cut off your johnson is because when people start throwing out holy verses, we've heard them and it always comes out to be you don't want to listen.
You called me and my other atheist friends haters. We don't hate you. We hate that others use your religion to hate us and call for our deaths.
You called us cowards. Some of us haven't had it easy being atheists.
You said you don't bother reading our posts but expect us to respect your thread of Biblical verses and the thinly veiled non-Bible verses? Why is what we have to say not worthy of your time, but you insist we respect yours?
Not once have you apologized for being a dick. I'll flat out say it: You were a dick and didn't care. You still don't and probably never will care that you shit all over us, thinking we should halt our time and listen to you, just for you to overlook us. I have seen your posts insisting we respect you but not once have you really respected us.
I have held my tongue despite my inner Walter wanting to come out. So here I am, typing this because I am disappointed. You say you're here for intellectual stimulation. You act as though you only want that if we meet your terms and believe & agree with you.
I have traveled all over, even to other countries, and spoken to believers and nonbelievers. Artist and non-artists. Scholars and laborers. I have been wrong, and I have debated. Hell, I've been threatened because of what I said, religious or not.
And you come in here, and say I'm a hater and coward.
Thanks.
You know something, man? I was raised Catholic, too. But from the time I was little I did not believe in God (this was before I knew the word "atheist"), but renounced atheism when I was 19. I was involved with ISKCON for about 15 years, off and on. Then I became a Christian when I was about 28, even though I did not fully renounce ISKCON until pretty recently (about 6 months ago). It's a long story, man.
After the way cckeiser originally "welcomed" me in here, I have been kinda prickly. I admit it. But that was
hater-istic of him, you gotta admit. He told me that he does not hate Christians, but rather pities them. That was condescending as hell.
Sorry I called you a coward, man. It's not personal. Look, I apologize, man. What else can I do?
More later. I gotta leave now. Peace, dudes.
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 15, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
What else can I do?
That's very simple, DO NOT MENTION RELIGION. Talk about bowling, doing drugs, not doing drugs, knitting, cooking, watching a big bowling match (I hear it's called The Super Bowl), whatever. But don't try to convert anyone, if they're interested they'll find you.
If you have NOTHING else in your life besides your religion, then don't say anything.
Quote from: jdurand on January 15, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 15, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
What else can I do?
That's very simple, DO NOT MENTION RELIGION. Talk about bowling, doing drugs, not doing drugs, knitting, cooking, watching a big bowling match (I hear it's called The Super Bowl), whatever. But don't try to convert anyone, if they're interested they'll find you.
If you have NOTHING else in your life besides your religion, then don't say anything.
Dude, you seem like a hostile nihilist to me. All the Swami ever wanted was a hug, man. And you didn't even use the magic word,
not once.But I wasn't mentioning religion, much less trying to get anybody to convert to mine. I am presenting a "Verse From a Sacred Text Other Than the Bible of the Week". It's not the same as "pushing religion" on people, for to me present such a verse or passage.
For another thing: does this prescription against mentioning anything have do do with religion include a proscription against mentioning anything having to do with Buddhism, Taoism, astrology, or what have you? Or is it just the Abrahamic religions that you seem to hate so much?
Besides, Dudeism presents itself as a religion; does that mean that we can no longer talk about Dudeism in religious terms? Your logic eludes me, jdurand.
Quote from: jdurand on January 15, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: Rev. Iconocclesiastes on January 15, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
What else can I do?
That's very simple, DO NOT MENTION RELIGION. Talk about bowling, doing drugs, not doing drugs, knitting, cooking, watching a big bowling match (I hear it's called The Super Bowl), whatever. But don't try to convert anyone, if they're interested they'll find you.
If you have NOTHING else in your life besides your religion, then don't say anything.
Lemme tell you something else, man. I think that you are just using Dudeism as a front for your nihilistic, hater-atheist attitude. That's a personal problem, on your part. I'm not here to use Dudeism as a front for anything. I'm not here to scam anybody, man.
Is there some kind of tech thing going on here, man?
Hey Dudes,
Nice post, Bikerdude; I like what Harris has to say -- his way of talking about "the problem of evil" -as some philosopher types call it- really hits home with me. That particular issue is what led me away from conventional religious belief back in high school.
What's the Dudeist position on the problem of evil? Well, to my mind, it begins with the realization that sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear well he eats you. There's no way to know why one minute you're rolling strikes and the next you're rolling gutters. Or why some of us roll into the semis, while others of us end up in a Folgers can before our time, like so many men... Life unravels as it does, and the Dude doesn't ask "Why me?" or "Why Donny?," he doesn't try to invoke metaphysical explanations, he just finds a way to abide.
And by abiding, the Dude and all Dudes inject a little bit of morality into a world that can otherwise be as dark as a steer's tookus on a moonless night. By choosing the path of the limber over the path of the uptight, we Dudeists find meaning and purpose.
Thoughts, Dudes?
Quote from: MindAbiding on January 15, 2014, 08:17:37 PM
Hey Dudes,
Nice post, Bikerdude; I like what Harris has to say -- his way of talking about "the problem of evil" -as some philosopher types call it- really hits home with me. That particular issue is what led me away from conventional religious belief back in high school.
What's the Dudeist position on the problem of evil? Well, to my mind, it begins with the realization that sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear well he eats you. There's no way to know why one minute you're rolling strikes and the next you're rolling gutters. Or why some of us roll into the semis, while others of us end up in a Folgers can before our time, like so many men... Life unravels as it does, and the Dude doesn't ask "Why me?" or "Why Donny?," he doesn't try to invoke metaphysical explanations, he just finds a way to abide.
And by abiding, the Dude and all Dudes inject a little bit of morality into a world that can otherwise be as dark as a steer's tookus on a moonless night. By choosing the path of the limber over the path of the uptight, we Dudeists find meaning and purpose.
Thoughts, Dudes?
Right on, man. 8)
Dammit, sorry. Typo.
Say MindAbiding: can I get a hug, man, please?
I haven't left this calling card for a while. I'm feeling good, so....................
VAGINA!!!
Quote from: Hominid on January 15, 2014, 08:36:46 PM
I haven't left this calling card for a while. I'm feeling good, so....................
VAGINA!!!
Wow, Homonid, I dig that the most.
Quote from: Hominid on January 15, 2014, 08:36:46 PM
I haven't left this calling card for a while. I'm feeling good, so....................
VAGINA!!!
Well said! ;D(http://dudeism.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Wow, never knew I was a "nihilistic, hater-atheist". Didn't even know I was an atheist, and I know I never said one way or the other on this forum.
Quote from: jdurand on January 15, 2014, 09:25:54 PM
Wow, never knew I was a "nihilistic, hater-atheist". Didn't even know I was an atheist, and I know I never said one way or the other on this forum.
Um - huh? Where does that accusation come from dude? Some of the people here can't even find reverse on a Soviet tank...
Quote from: Hominid on January 15, 2014, 10:15:35 PM
Quote from: jdurand on January 15, 2014, 09:25:54 PM
Wow, never knew I was a "nihilistic, hater-atheist". Didn't even know I was an atheist, and I know I never said one way or the other on this forum.
Um - huh? Where does that accusation come from dude? Some of the people here can't even find reverse on a Soviet tank...
I think some posts have been deleted, probably just as well.
Mindabiding that is quite possibly the best explanation of dudeism I have ever read far out man very cool.
Thankee, man. I'm sure some of what I wrote was inspired by others (the Abide Guide, dudeism.com, etc.)-- but, you know man, it's a shared thing anyway.
Quote from: The_Sleevez on January 28, 2014, 09:29:09 PM
Mindabiding that is quite possibly the best explanation of dudeism I have ever read far out man very cool.