http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejQyPFDUUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejQyPFDUUg)
Quote from: BikerDude on February 26, 2013, 05:20:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejQyPFDUUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejQyPFDUUg)
Perhaps, but I would say that as long as people are religious it will never seem outdated. That's just like my opinion, man.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 02:27:36 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 26, 2013, 05:20:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejQyPFDUUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejQyPFDUUg)
Perhaps, but I would say that as long as people are religious it will never seem outdated. That's just like my opinion, man.
So Zeus is still relevant.
Who knew.
I liked the part where Lawrence Krauss actually talked like a sane person.
"Of course religion is irrelevant. NO ONE believes most of the stuff that religion says. Even the religious."
The nun who "defends" religion does the typical thing of talking about stuff that, if quoted directly from scripture, would boil down to one side of a sheet of paper.
So the reality is that at this point even the religious throw out 99.99 percent of scripture.
And what is left is not in any way unique to religion.
And numbers of people who report being affiliated have plummeted. And among those who do "say" that they are a member of a religion at least a third don't practice and simply report themselves as members of the religion that their parents where.
It's just being propped up out of some sort of identity affiliation rather than relevance IMO.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 02:27:36 AM
Perhaps, but I would say that as long as people are religious it will never seem outdated. That's just like my opinion, man.
And entitled to an opinion you are, Sir.
Mine: The time for superstition ended with The Enlightenment, which was too long in coming as it was. Religion in the classic sense serves no purpose in modern society except to keep the masses unreasonably subjugated. As long as the people have gods to petition and to blame, the rulers are not held responsible and accountable for their actions. Take the gods out of it, and the people will stop pleading with their gods to make life more bearable, and will instead demand it of their rulers. It might fuck up the cult of capitalism, but that's an outmoded idea whose time has passed, too. If our culture doesn't learn empathy soon, it's going to learn misery instead.
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 08:32:01 AM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 02:27:36 AM
Perhaps, but I would say that as long as people are religious it will never seem outdated. That's just like my opinion, man.
And entitled to an opinion you are, Sir.
Mine: The time for superstition ended with The Enlightenment, which was too long in coming as it was. Religion in the classic sense serves no purpose in modern society except to keep the masses unreasonably subjugated. As long as the people have gods to petition and to blame, the rulers are not held responsible and accountable for their actions. Take the gods out of it, and the people will stop pleading with their gods to make life more bearable, and will instead demand it of their rulers. It might fuck up the cult of capitalism, but that's an outmoded idea whose time has passed, too. If our culture doesn't learn empathy soon, it's going to learn misery instead.
OK, but my question be; how do you define "religion?"
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 08:37:08 AM
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 08:32:01 AM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 02:27:36 AM
Perhaps, but I would say that as long as people are religious it will never seem outdated. That's just like my opinion, man.
And entitled to an opinion you are, Sir.
Mine: The time for superstition ended with The Enlightenment, which was too long in coming as it was. Religion in the classic sense serves no purpose in modern society except to keep the masses unreasonably subjugated. As long as the people have gods to petition and to blame, the rulers are not held responsible and accountable for their actions. Take the gods out of it, and the people will stop pleading with their gods to make life more bearable, and will instead demand it of their rulers. It might fuck up the cult of capitalism, but that's an outmoded idea whose time has passed, too. If our culture doesn't learn empathy soon, it's going to learn misery instead.
OK, but my question be; how do you define "religion?"
That's a uniquely modern view.
I'm not aware of any religion that allows it's followers to pick and choose.
Religion does it's own defining. (I don't buy that Dudeism is a religion BTW)
We are really talking about the heavy hitters. They have their tenants. They define themselves.
A lot of people today will allow that they are "spiritual".
A religious person has a name for that. A heretic. The fact is religion has no allowance for that in fact they strictly disallow it. The name heretic has that meaning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLQ6TGRCl_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLQ6TGRCl_s)
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 08:32:01 AM
It might fuck up the cult of capitalism, but that's an outmoded idea whose time has passed, too. If our culture doesn't learn empathy soon, it's going to learn misery instead.
Yes some will.
Except the winners in the Capatalism rat race.
You can bet that the shit won't be hitting them any time soon.
Unless the peasants fling it that is.
They see it coming. A lot of what they are doing is preparing for that.
Nobody sees the writing on the wall more clearly than the "masters of the universe".
And they will be ready when the shit hits the fan.
It's a question of what eventually will replace capitalism and who will run it.
If history teaches anything it is that it will be something like fascism and it will be run by the capitalists.
Just like in the past. I mean no matter how you cut it that really is the inevitable end game and I would seriously point out that when you look at the beliefs of these people it is fueled by a christian belief in an active God.
They see themselves as "winning" because God wants it that way.
Really. I mean you need to get into the mindset of the very powerful wasp mentality.
It's just horrible. And in the end they believe that Jesus will be back to Judge and then nukes, fire, hell name it.
They aren't sitting on their hands. If it comes down to it they will take it all before giving up their stash.
Count on it. Some will do the shitting and some will get shit on. For the bible tells me so.
Most hard core capitalists see capitalism as God's plan. They hate socialism and communism because it fucks that up. To them some should suffer and some should not. Any effort to even that out is "Godless".
Every knee shall bend. To them Might literally does make right.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 09:15:19 AM
They see it coming. A lot of what they are doing is preparing for that.
Nobody sees the writing on the wall more clearly than the "masters of the universe".
It's ironic that the end they see as near is one of their own making, and their own actions are the only thing making it inevitable. With the will to do it, the course could be corrected starting this afternoon. Without the will to do it the richies will be very severely fucked when the world they're creating is realized, and their wealth will not save them.
It is indeed a very interesting time to be alive.
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 09:58:33 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 09:15:19 AM
They see it coming. A lot of what they are doing is preparing for that.
Nobody sees the writing on the wall more clearly than the "masters of the universe".
It's ironic that the end they see as near is one of their own making, and their own actions are the only thing making it inevitable. With the will to do it, the course could be corrected starting this afternoon. Without the will to do it the richies will be very severely fucked when the world they're creating is realized, and their wealth will not save them.
It is indeed a very interesting time to be alive.
Well if you believe the Christian fairy tail their wealth will save them.
And yes. They celebrate it. It's the coming of Jesus.
And remember the devout will be on board to help out.
Turn coat fucks that they are.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 08:37:08 AM
OK, but my question be; how do you define "religion?"
My own perspective is that belief in invisible sentient beings who control the course of human events is religion. And Dudeism, and modern pantheism, and Zen, and secular humanism, and several other things that are often called religion but lack the invisible sentient beings are worldview rather than religion. Not that I'm anything like an authority on either religion or language. It's all I can do to string together an unambiguous sentence every few weeks or so.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
Well if you believe the Christian fairy tail their wealth will save them.
I've never been afflicted by that particular delusion. I gave it a fair shake once upon a time, read all of the western holey texts cover to cover and back to back in chronological order, all the way from an invisible space monster speaking light into existence to some random con man sticking his face into his hat and somehow proving that he wasn't just making shit up by failing to get the same story twice from the same golden tablet that's every bit as long lost as the stone upon which god his own fucking self scribbled some commandments. I was all of six or seven years old at the time but I knew bullshit when I saw it.
And then over on the other side of the spectrum at about the same magnitude of bat shit insanity there are some ostensibly bright guys who believe with every bit as much fervor that the salvation of the species will come by way of infesting far away worlds. Now there, my friend, is some fucked up hillbilly shit. We're going to tear up this trailer so bad that it's no longer fit for habitation, then pack up and move on, leaving behind a house full of garbage and rats, and a yard littered with derelict automobiles and dead appliances in which the feral cats we're abandoning might find shelter? And it's the best plan we can come up with? Somehow superior to demanding that the invisible space monster take us all in at his house in the sky where there's always pie (but never any fucking)?
Advanced civilization my ass. It's about time we all just stop what we're doing, smoke a doobie, and think our way through this shit (for the first time) rather than just frenetically running around hoping for a fucking miracle. We can do better than this. I don't hold out much hope for it, but I know we can if we choose to.
I'm like a child wandering in the middle of a movie here (because i can't be arsed to read the whole thread)
but in response to the original "is religion outdated?" i'd say it's not really outdated it's just continuing to evolve.
The more recent religions such as Dudeism are amogst the most advaced but spiritual paths such as buddhism and Daoism are highly adaptable and i'm sure will continue to find environmental niches.
Old shit like catholicism is pretty clunky but fits in fine in less evolved societies so will stay around for quite a while yet.
that's not just my opinion dude - that's the word of the Lord.
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 12:07:20 PM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 27, 2013, 08:37:08 AM
OK, but my question be; how do you define "religion?"
My own perspective is that belief in invisible sentient beings who control the course of human events is religion. And Dudeism, and modern pantheism, and Zen, and secular humanism, and several other things that are often called religion but lack the invisible sentient beings are worldview rather than religion. Not that I'm anything like an authority on either religion or language. It's all I can do to string together an unambiguous sentence every few weeks or so.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
Well if you believe the Christian fairy tail their wealth will save them.
I've never been afflicted by that particular delusion. I gave it a fair shake once upon a time, read all of the western holey texts cover to cover and back to back in chronological order, all the way from an invisible space monster speaking light into existence to some random con man sticking his face into his hat and somehow proving that he wasn't just making shit up by failing to get the same story twice from the same golden tablet that's every bit as long lost as the stone upon which god his own fucking self scribbled some commandments. I was all of six or seven years old at the time but I knew bullshit when I saw it.
And then over on the other side of the spectrum at about the same magnitude of bat shit insanity there are some ostensibly bright guys who believe with every bit as much fervor that the salvation of the species will come by way of infesting far away worlds. Now there, my friend, is some fucked up hillbilly shit. We're going to tear up this trailer so bad that it's no longer fit for habitation, then pack up and move on, leaving behind a house full of garbage and rats, and a yard littered with derelict automobiles and dead appliances in which the feral cats we're abandoning might find shelter? And it's the best plan we can come up with? Somehow superior to demanding that the invisible space monster take us all in at his house in the sky where there's always pie (but never any fucking)?
Advanced civilization my ass. It's about time we all just stop what we're doing, smoke a doobie, and think our way through this shit (for the first time) rather than just frenetically running around hoping for a fucking miracle. We can do better than this. I don't hold out much hope for it, but I know we can if we choose to.
I worry a lot less about belief than the actions that those beliefs bring.
Christianity is very busy right now. You all know how I feel about dominionism.
That's one type of paraquat but the tree is full of fruit right now. A bumper crop.
People have this idea that it isn't going to matter unless Christ comes strolling across the sea.
Believe me they won't be waiting around. So it being true or not has nothing to do with it.
The shit will be coming down either way.
Here's a woman being possessed by the spirit of a dog. (Yeah I know it happens to my wife from time to time also)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJmLVtwxeN8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJmLVtwxeN8)
BTW that's the same guy that blessed Sarah Palin after she was chosen as John McCain's running mate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM)
This one has 3 demons living in her stomach. Oh no sorry the witch doctor took one out so now 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t3vIBe96WQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t3vIBe96WQ)
Right now there is a guy within 10 feet of me who has a "third eye" drawn on his forehead.
Personally I'd say that, if his skills at writing requirements documents is any indication, his third eye needs some serious glasses. Coke bottles.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 01:28:27 PM
I worry a lot less about belief than the actions that those beliefs bring.
As do I!
Those people are working their asses off to prove that I am correct in my belief that democracy cannot work with an electorate as numerous as that of the United States. A guy would have to be running really short on brainpower to believe it good and just and right that his rights and freedoms should be decided by people who honestly believe that some gutter slut got knocked up a couple thousand years ago and gave birth to a god. The same hypocritical fucks would shun a teenager down the street who got knocked up and tried to claim that she'd never even seen a dick before. But they tolerate a bunch of other dipshits who believe that some random con man stuck his face into his hat and read the words of that same god on golden tablets found on a continent that was not known to exist by those who inhabited the land where that alleged god lived -- and the proof that the con man wasn't lying came in the form of his reading the same tablet twice and getting two different stories. Not to be outdone, a failed hack of a science fiction writer came up with the notion that all of humankind's problems are caused by invisible space aliens who live inside our bodies and must be exorcised, and though we might think it odd we maintain that it's anyone's right to believe that goofy shit -- and still cast ballots.
Then we pretend that democracy is the only right way to live, despite the fact that most of us are so easily duped and so eager to do as we are told by those who pretend to speak on behalf of invisible beings who live in outer space. And who controls the most destructive military force in the history of mankind? Those who pretend to speak on behalf of invisible beings who live in outer space. Tell me that shit ain't wrong.
So is the 21st century a good point in history to abandon religion before it fucks us all in the ass? Oh hell yes.
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 01:28:27 PM
I worry a lot less about belief than the actions that those beliefs bring.
As do I!
Those people are working their asses off to prove that I am correct in my belief that democracy cannot work with an electorate as numerous as that of the United States. A guy would have to be running really short on brainpower to believe it good and just and right that his rights and freedoms should be decided by people who honestly believe that some gutter slut got knocked up a couple thousand years ago and gave birth to a god. The same hypocritical fucks would shun a teenager down the street who got knocked up and tried to claim that she'd never even seen a dick before. But they tolerate a bunch of other dipshits who believe that some random con man stuck his face into his hat and read the words of that same god on golden tablets found on a continent that was not known to exist by those who inhabited the land where that alleged god lived -- and the proof that the con man wasn't lying came in the form of his reading the same tablet twice and getting two different stories. Not to be outdone, a failed hack of a science fiction writer came up with the notion that all of humankind's problems are caused by invisible space aliens who live inside our bodies and must be exorcised, and though we might think it odd we maintain that it's anyone's right to believe that goofy shit -- and still cast ballots.
Then we pretend that democracy is the only right way to live, despite the fact that most of us are so easily duped and so eager to do as we are told by those who pretend to speak on behalf of invisible beings who live in outer space. And who controls the most destructive military force in the history of mankind? Those who pretend to speak on behalf of invisible beings who live in outer space. Tell me that shit ain't wrong.
So is the 21st century a good point in history to abandon religion before it fucks us all in the ass? Oh hell yes.
Well we differ there.
I think people have the right to self governance even if they are gonna fuck it up.
Freedom includes the right to be an ass and the right to call someone an ass under the same umbrella.
If our aim is to get rid of crap that makes us stupid then I'd assume that we aim toward a condition fit for democracy eventually?
I'm not down with that.
It just becomes intellectual fascism.
People can be as stupid as they want and others can call them that.
Change happens slowly but even more slow when encumbered by irrational beliefs.
Some will follow. Others will cling. That's how it goes.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
I think people have the right to self governance even if they are gonna fuck it up.
I might not bitch if it was only Americans fucking themselves up by it. But it's not. The US military has been killing, on average and in round numbers, 100,000 people a year every year for all of the 51 years I've been alive. Our corporations kill many thousands every year in their foreign operations, not an inconsiderable few through their support of despotic regimes who keep the local populace subdued on the corporations' behalf, and many through unsafe work environments that they know are deadly because the whole reason they offshored them in the first place was to escape US workplace safety laws. When our self governance causes that shit, then we're all to be held to account -- but we won't allow it because we don't have to. We're the mightiest nation the world has ever known.
In the US, self governance is an illusion. Our Constitution doesn't even provide for it. Sure, we get to vote on issues at the state and local level, but if the feds don't like our vote they overrule it. Here in Colorado, we legalized cannabis. The feds reserve the right to bust us anyway. We don't want fracking, but the federal government says hey, fuck you. So who's governing? Not us. The prison corporations like illegal pot, so fuck us. The corporations like killing us with impunity to get at the natural gas under our homes, so fuck us. Yay, democracy.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
If our aim is to get rid of crap that makes us stupid then I'd assume that we aim toward a condition fit for democracy eventually?
I don't think that democracy can work on this scale. My posit is that it cannot, and at any rate it obviously is not. What we have now cannot rightly be called democracy anyway. It's fascism. Not the watered down, use this word because everyone hates it variety, but fascism in the correct definition of the term.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
It just becomes intellectual fascism.
Nice term, that. I take it that it's a derogatory term for meritocracy? If so, that's a hard fucking sell, man.
We already practice meritocracy throughout our society, including within government. When the elected president convenes a commission to advise him on some specific problem domain, he is practicing meritocracy directly. When the president seeks the counsel of his appointed cabinet, he is practicing meritocracy directly. If he ignores the expert advice, as Nixon did when his first commission on marijuana recommended decriminalization and he pocketed their report, it could be argued that he is practicing despotism. When the FDA approved the sale of aspartame against the better judgment of its own scientists, it was abandoning the established meritocracy to practice fascism. We fucking rely upon that meritocracy, man! We trust the various meritocracies of government a helluva lot more than we trust our elected officials.
When you accept a promotion in your job, you are benefiting from meritocracy. When you get shitcanned for incompetence, your detriment came from meritocracy. Hopefully it was deserved. Meritocracy fucking works, man -- it's what enabled the capitalists to take over every part of the world they want to control. So what happens if we're governed by a meritocracy that's guided by benevolence and a sincere desire to advance the good of the common man rather than the greed of a wealthy few? Maybe it works almost as well for us as it has for them. It would have to work better than our sacred fucking democracy has worked for us. Democracy has utterly failed us.
Fascism? That's what we in the US are ruled by now. The corporations get everything they demand, while our Bill of Rights has been decimated and Habeas corpus suspended. Only one of the four rights ostensibly guaranteed by the First Amendment stands mostly intact, the Second is under attack, and the remaining eight are just fucking gone. But we bailed out Wall Street and the automakers, we subsidize oil companies and agribusiness and telecommunications, and we give the military-industrial complex everything it wants. That fucking Romney guy wanted to give the Pentagon even more than they wanted, more than they could spend, because their spending goes directly to the defense industry. This IS fascism.
You can be fined into bankruptcy and sentenced to five years in prison for rooting or jailbreaking your cell phone to make it work with a carrier other than the one you bought the phone from. You can be imprisoned for watching a DVD on a computer running Linux. You can lose everything you own if your kid downloads music from an unlicensed source. If an oil company poisons your water well and leaves your children permanently damaged, your wife dying of cancer, and your property practically worthless, you have zero recourse. No one owes you a dime. There is no one to sue. You're just fucked. This IS fascism.
In fascism, there is rigid authority, great nationalistic sentiment, rejection of socialism in any form, elevation of a given element of society (usually by race or religion), and total subjugation of the individual to the state. The individual becomes a tool of the state, nothing more. Tell me we're not fucking there, man. Your rights are all but completely gone, your every meaningful move is surveilled, and the surveillance is going to be augmented by tens of thousands of aerial drones by year's end. Why? There are obviously no terrorists here, and all the spooks have managed to round up are a few mentally deficient and disturbed individuals they've managed to entrap. So why look so intently at the rest of us? Could it be that we are all now merely tools of the state who can not be allowed to step off of an increasingly narrow line?
This fascism exists because of the confluence of the three things Americans hold most dear: Capitalism, religion, and democracy. It might seem unfair to include religion, since it seems that its major contribution is just enabling people to remain ignorant and avoid rational thought, but it goes deeper than that. American evangelical christianity fully supports our fascism. It suits their agenda: They want to BE the government, and just like the capitalists, they want to rule the world. The dominionists' wet dream cannot happen without capitalist support, and the capitalist agenda of world financial domination cannot be achieved without the popular (unthinking) support that only the church can deliver.
Everyone asks, when dealing with a capitalist, "What's in it for me?". So the capitalists can't deal with the people directly except to sell them shit. The people would want to get paid. But with the church in there telling people that social programs are evil and riches are a reward delivered by god, the rich get a free hand. Can't be fucking with god's chosen people, ya know.
The Jesus of the New Testament was down with poor people, and counseled the rich that if they didn't give all of their shit, literally all of it, to the poor, they could not be his disciples and would be barred from entry into heaven. But today's evangelical preachers preach exactly the opposite. Gee, I wonder why. I mean, shit, the same words have been in their book since it was translated to English. It's not even open to interpretation. Much of that book is malleable, but those parts in which Jeebus says give all your shit to the poor are not. They're unambiguous. The preachers have gone off the page. Why? What on Earth could convince a fucking preacher, of all people, to drop that book on the floor and completely ignore the teachings of the guy his religion is named after?
Wealth and power, man, wealth and power. The only reasons western religion exists.
Sorry came late into this conversation.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 08:05:32 AM
So Zeus is still relevant.
Who knew.
As a practicing pagan myself, yes!
meekon5 Dudeist Pagan.
Also can I be particular in insisting there be a division between christianity (as an enforced state approved religious point of view) and other religions (or religious points of view).
I spent a lot of my youth studying various religious points of view and eventually formulated my present (ongoing, flexible) point of view on the way things are.
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 11:25:13 PM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
I think people have the right to self governance even if they are gonna fuck it up.
I might not bitch if it was only Americans fucking themselves up by it. But it's not. The US military has been killing, on average and in round numbers, 100,000 people a year every year for all of the 51 years I've been alive. Our corporations kill many thousands every year in their foreign operations, not an inconsiderable few through their support of despotic regimes who keep the local populace subdued on the corporations' behalf, and many through unsafe work environments that they know are deadly because the whole reason they offshored them in the first place was to escape US workplace safety laws. When our self governance causes that shit, then we're all to be held to account -- but we won't allow it because we don't have to. We're the mightiest nation the world has ever known.
In the US, self governance is an illusion. Our Constitution doesn't even provide for it. Sure, we get to vote on issues at the state and local level, but if the feds don't like our vote they overrule it. Here in Colorado, we legalized cannabis. The feds reserve the right to bust us anyway. We don't want fracking, but the federal government says hey, fuck you. So who's governing? Not us. The prison corporations like illegal pot, so fuck us. The corporations like killing us with impunity to get at the natural gas under our homes, so fuck us. Yay, democracy.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
If our aim is to get rid of crap that makes us stupid then I'd assume that we aim toward a condition fit for democracy eventually?
I don't think that democracy can work on this scale. My posit is that it cannot, and at any rate it obviously is not. What we have now cannot rightly be called democracy anyway. It's fascism. Not the watered down, use this word because everyone hates it variety, but fascism in the correct definition of the term.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
It just becomes intellectual fascism.
Nice term, that. I take it that it's a derogatory term for meritocracy? If so, that's a hard fucking sell, man.
We already practice meritocracy throughout our society, including within government. When the elected president convenes a commission to advise him on some specific problem domain, he is practicing meritocracy directly. When the president seeks the counsel of his appointed cabinet, he is practicing meritocracy directly. If he ignores the expert advice, as Nixon did when his first commission on marijuana recommended decriminalization and he pocketed their report, it could be argued that he is practicing despotism. When the FDA approved the sale of aspartame against the better judgment of its own scientists, it was abandoning the established meritocracy to practice fascism. We fucking rely upon that meritocracy, man! We trust the various meritocracies of government a helluva lot more than we trust our elected officials.
When you accept a promotion in your job, you are benefiting from meritocracy. When you get shitcanned for incompetence, your detriment came from meritocracy. Hopefully it was deserved. Meritocracy fucking works, man -- it's what enabled the capitalists to take over every part of the world they want to control. So what happens if we're governed by a meritocracy that's guided by benevolence and a sincere desire to advance the good of the common man rather than the greed of a wealthy few? Maybe it works almost as well for us as it has for them. It would have to work better than our sacred fucking democracy has worked for us. Democracy has utterly failed us.
Fascism? That's what we in the US are ruled by now. The corporations get everything they demand, while our Bill of Rights has been decimated and Habeas corpus suspended. Only one of the four rights ostensibly guaranteed by the First Amendment stands mostly intact, the Second is under attack, and the remaining eight are just fucking gone. But we bailed out Wall Street and the automakers, we subsidize oil companies and agribusiness and telecommunications, and we give the military-industrial complex everything it wants. That fucking Romney guy wanted to give the Pentagon even more than they wanted, more than they could spend, because their spending goes directly to the defense industry. This IS fascism.
You can be fined into bankruptcy and sentenced to five years in prison for rooting or jailbreaking your cell phone to make it work with a carrier other than the one you bought the phone from. You can be imprisoned for watching a DVD on a computer running Linux. You can lose everything you own if your kid downloads music from an unlicensed source. If an oil company poisons your water well and leaves your children permanently damaged, your wife dying of cancer, and your property practically worthless, you have zero recourse. No one owes you a dime. There is no one to sue. You're just fucked. This IS fascism.
In fascism, there is rigid authority, great nationalistic sentiment, rejection of socialism in any form, elevation of a given element of society (usually by race or religion), and total subjugation of the individual to the state. The individual becomes a tool of the state, nothing more. Tell me we're not fucking there, man. Your rights are all but completely gone, your every meaningful move is surveilled, and the surveillance is going to be augmented by tens of thousands of aerial drones by year's end. Why? There are obviously no terrorists here, and all the spooks have managed to round up are a few mentally deficient and disturbed individuals they've managed to entrap. So why look so intently at the rest of us? Could it be that we are all now merely tools of the state who can not be allowed to step off of an increasingly narrow line?
This fascism exists because of the confluence of the three things Americans hold most dear: Capitalism, religion, and democracy. It might seem unfair to include religion, since it seems that its major contribution is just enabling people to remain ignorant and avoid rational thought, but it goes deeper than that. American evangelical christianity fully supports our fascism. It suits their agenda: They want to BE the government, and just like the capitalists, they want to rule the world. The dominionists' wet dream cannot happen without capitalist support, and the capitalist agenda of world financial domination cannot be achieved without the popular (unthinking) support that only the church can deliver.
Everyone asks, when dealing with a capitalist, "What's in it for me?". So the capitalists can't deal with the people directly except to sell them shit. The people would want to get paid. But with the church in there telling people that social programs are evil and riches are a reward delivered by god, the rich get a free hand. Can't be fucking with god's chosen people, ya know.
The Jesus of the New Testament was down with poor people, and counseled the rich that if they didn't give all of their shit, literally all of it, to the poor, they could not be his disciples and would be barred from entry into heaven. But today's evangelical preachers preach exactly the opposite. Gee, I wonder why. I mean, shit, the same words have been in their book since it was translated to English. It's not even open to interpretation. Much of that book is malleable, but those parts in which Jeebus says give all your shit to the poor are not. They're unambiguous. The preachers have gone off the page. Why? What on Earth could convince a fucking preacher, of all people, to drop that book on the floor and completely ignore the teachings of the guy his religion is named after?
Wealth and power, man, wealth and power. The only reasons western religion exists.
That's a lot of words dude!
Yes a lot of words.
I believe in freedom. Freedom is IMHO impossible without self governance.
It being difficult of seeming impossible does nothing to change the charge that we work toward.
Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
Yeah I know the "creator" thing.
It means nothing. The fact that a belief in Alchemy was wide spread at that time has as much relevance.
Times change but the basic principle remains with or without a "creator".
Giving your consent to be governed is saying that you are a slave but you're okay about it.
Not really into that S&M stuff myself but each to their own.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 08:06:01 AM
Giving your consent to be governed is saying that you are a slave but you're okay about it.
Not really into that S&M stuff myself but each to their own.
No because you are the government in that context.
These are revolutionary beliefs. By that I mean they literally came about at the time of many real revolutions.
In the vacuum of power the decision was that government would be by the people, for the people and of the people. Some of that comes through the vote (very little IMO) and the rest through principles expressed in the constitution and laws. This is why we don't have things like segregation even if the majority of people in a given area support it. It is inherently unconstitutional. The principles are meant to safeguard the rights of individuals and as an extension minority opinion. The right to self governance through representation tempered by principles.
It is a difficult balance for sure but that's the gig.
We have the right in the US to bear arms. But the government has the right to pass laws about the specifics.
The government can not "disarm" the citizenry but they can tell people that they can't build a nuclear weapon in their basement. And if people disagree about the specifics they can exercise the right to free speech and vote for representatives who share their opinions.
If the "system" breaks down (it's at a low for sure due to undue pressure from monied interests IMO) then I don't believe you throw out the "system". You fix the problem.
Disliking the government as inefficient and not representative enough is very different from disliking the form of government.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 28, 2013, 08:41:40 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 08:06:01 AM
Giving your consent to be governed is saying that you are a slave but you're okay about it.
Not really into that S&M stuff myself but each to their own.
No because you are the government in that context.
These are revolutionary beliefs. By that I mean they literally came about at the time of many real revolutions.
In the vacuum of power the decision was that government would be by the people, for the people and of the people. Some of that comes through the vote (very little IMO) and the rest through principles expressed in the constitution and laws. This is why we don't have things like segregation even if the majority of people in a given area support it. It is inherently unconstitutional. The principles are meant to safeguard the rights of individuals and as an extension minority opinion. The right to self governance through representation tempered by principles.
It is a difficult balance for sure but that's the gig.
We have the right in the US to bear arms. But the government has the right to pass laws about the specifics.
The government can not "disarm" the citizenry but they can tell people that they can't build a nuclear weapon in their basement. And if people disagree about the specifics they can exercise the right to free speech and vote for representatives who share their opinions.
If the "system" breaks down (it's at a low for sure due to undue pressure from monied interests IMO) then I don't believe you throw out the "system". You fix the problem.
Disliking the government as inefficient and not representative enough is very different from disliking the form of government.
Slaves dude. Velvet chains - but still slaves
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
Well, dude, we just don't, but a thought...
A person who has the freedom to own a gun is a citizen, a person without the freedom to own a gun is a subject and a slave.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 28, 2013, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
Well, dude, we just don't, but a thought...
A person who has the freedom to own a gun is a citizen, a person without the freedom to own a gun is a subject and a slave.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
The gun is just a comfort blanket dude. Makes you feel safe while you're being shafted.
don't follow leeders, watch your parkin meeders
and as for 'a well regulated militia'.....................yeah sure!
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
I assume your chanting will be alleviating that situation soon then?
Quote from: BikerDude on February 28, 2013, 10:55:13 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
I assume your chanting will be alleviating that situation soon then?
that's right dude - free your mind and the rest follows
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on February 28, 2013, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
Well, dude, we just don't, but a thought...
A person who has the freedom to own a gun is a citizen, a person without the freedom to own a gun is a subject and a slave.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Most important is that it is a guiding principle.
I don't think that a person with or without a gun is a slave unless they have or don't have one against their will.
It's not truly a relevant fact in that equation.
We have the right to bear arms. that is codified into the constitution.
No one is actually planning on changing that irregardless of the near psychotic ramblings of Wayne LaPeirre.
The entire question goes back to the same difficult equation balancing personal liberty with social responsibility.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 28, 2013, 10:55:13 AM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Giving citizens the right to bear arms is like giving an eight-year-old the right to hold an 'action man' whilst he's fucked in the ass by a government-sponsored pederast.
I assume your chanting will be alleviating that situation soon then?
that's right dude - free your mind and the rest follows
Quote
I just came home from Vietnam where I spent twelve months of my
life trying to pacify the population. We couldn?t do it; their resistance
was amazing. And it was wrong; the process made me sick. So I
came home to join the resistance in my own country, and I find you
guys have pacified yourselves. That too amazes me; that too makes
me sick...
- Vietnam Veteran Against the War, 1970-
Quote from: meekon5 on February 28, 2013, 06:59:35 AM
Sorry came late into this conversation.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 08:05:32 AM
So Zeus is still relevant.
Who knew.
As a practicing pagan myself, yes!
meekon5 Dudeist Pagan.
Also can I be particular in insisting there be a division between christianity (as an enforced state approved religious point of view) and other religions (or religious points of view).
I spent a lot of my youth studying various religious points of view and eventually formulated my present (ongoing, flexible) point of view on the way things are.
LMFAO!!!
Only on this board could I ask the question "Is Zeus relevant" and have the answer be yes.
Carry on.
And may Thor spare you from his bolts from Olympus.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 07:43:56 AM
That's a lot of words dude!
Sometimes context is important and sound bites will not do. 8)
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 10:44:00 AM
The gun is just a comfort blanket dude. Makes you feel safe while you're being shafted.
Ain't no one who ever saw an A-10 ("Wart Hog" or Thunderbolt II) in action who thinks that an AR-15 is worth even having when Uncle Sugar insists that you hold still and remain quiet.
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 28, 2013, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 10:44:00 AM
The gun is just a comfort blanket dude. Makes you feel safe while you're being shafted.
Ain't no one who ever saw an A-10 ("Wart Hog" or Thunderbolt II) in action who thinks that an AR-15 is worth even having when Uncle Sugar insists that you hold still and remain quiet.
Is that the 'tank-buster' dude?
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 03:01:29 PM
Is that the 'tank-buster' dude?
Yep. "Close Air Support" is what they call it. Those darn things are wicked sneaky, and you never want to be what the pilot has been sent to kill. When they're coming in low and slow, they can skim the treetops at right around 50MPH, and you don't even hear them until they've gone past. Unless that 30mm rotary cannon is fired, in which case it's a steady roar that's audible for miles as it hurls 3900 rounds per minute, with each projectile weighing either 12 or 15 ounces depending upon what it's loaded with. There's nothing you're going to manhandle on the ground that's going to do any real damage to an airborne A-10.
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but the Hog is really fucking impressive. When I was walking around on Air Force bases back when I was often expected to do so and they were still brand new, those planes just made a hell of an impression on me. You hear a whir and look up, and there he is 30 feet off the ground and moving so slowly that it seems impossible for a fixed wing aircraft to stay airborne. It's like the damned thing is suspended on a string. And you never heard a thing until it was already past.
Don't get me wrong: I am 100% in favor of law abiding gun owners' rights. But I grin when someone mentions gun ownership as a way to keep the US government in check. That's just not gonna happen. If it's just law enforcement coming after you being armed might enable you to take a few pigs under the grass with you, but if it's no shit military force the only thing you might accomplish by fighting back is to entertain the guy who's fixin' to take you out.
Once upon a time when I was a truck driver, right before I went into the Air Force, I was just getting up to highway speed on some lonesome highway in Nevada when a jackrabbit ran out in front of me and got pinned by the headlights. He recovered pretty quickly, but rather than run the little fucker layed his ears back, bared his teeth, and raised a paw like he wanted to fight. Now that is nards. I felt like a real heel driving over a bunny with the brass to take on a Kenworth.
... I cranked up the spotlight and shined it behind me, hoping like hell that I wouldn't see bloody fur smashed into the asphalt, and what do ya know? That gutsy fucking rabbit ran off the side of the road. He probably went home and told his old lady, "Oh, you really should've been there, babe. Some fucking diesel dummy thought he was going to take this rabbit on. Showed his ass, I did. I stood my ground and showed him what he was up against, and last I saw of him he was still shifting gears and heading for the next county. He probably ain't never coming back!". ;D
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 28, 2013, 04:54:52 PM
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on February 28, 2013, 03:01:29 PM
Is that the 'tank-buster' dude?
Yep. "Close Air Support" is what they call it. Those darn things are wicked sneaky, and you never want to be what the pilot has been sent to kill. When they're coming in low and slow, they can skim the treetops at right around 50MPH, and you don't even hear them until they've gone past. Unless that 30mm rotary cannon is fired, in which case it's a steady roar that's audible for miles as it hurls 3900 rounds per minute, with each projectile weighing either 12 or 15 ounces depending upon what it's loaded with. There's nothing you're going to manhandle on the ground that's going to do any real damage to an airborne A-10.
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but the Hog is really fucking impressive. When I was walking around on Air Force bases back when I was often expected to do so and they were still brand new, those planes just made a hell of an impression on me. You hear a whir and look up, and there he is 30 feet off the ground and moving so slowly that it seems impossible for a fixed wing aircraft to stay airborne. It's like the damned thing is suspended on a string. And you never heard a thing until it was already past.
Don't get me wrong: I am 100% in favor of law abiding gun owners' rights. But I grin when someone mentions gun ownership as a way to keep the US government in check. That's just not gonna happen. If it's just law enforcement coming after you being armed might enable you to take a few pigs under the grass with you, but if it's no shit military force the only thing you might accomplish by fighting back is to entertain the guy who's fixin' to take you out.
Once upon a time when I was a truck driver, right before I went into the Air Force, I was just getting up to highway speed on some lonesome highway in Nevada when a jackrabbit ran out in front of me and got pinned by the headlights. He recovered pretty quickly, but rather than run the little fucker layed his ears back, bared his teeth, and raised a paw like he wanted to fight. Now that is nards. I felt like a real heel driving over a bunny with the brass to take on a Kenworth.
... I cranked up the spotlight and shined it behind me, hoping like hell that I wouldn't see bloody fur smashed into the asphalt, and what do ya know? That gutsy fucking rabbit ran off the side of the road. He probably went home and told his old lady, "Oh, you really should've been there, babe. Some fucking diesel dummy thought he was going to take this rabbit on. Showed his ass, I did. I stood my ground and showed him what he was up against, and last I saw of him he was still shifting gears and heading for the next county. He probably ain't never coming back!". ;D
You got a real nice flow to your writing style there dude.
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 09:58:33 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 09:15:19 AM
They see it coming. A lot of what they are doing is preparing for that.
Nobody sees the writing on the wall more clearly than the "masters of the universe".
It's ironic that the end they see as near is one of their own making, and their own actions are the only thing making it inevitable. With the will to do it, the course could be corrected starting this afternoon. Without the will to do it the richies will be very severely fucked when the world they're creating is realized, and their wealth will not save them.
It is indeed a very interesting time to be alive.
Well if you believe the Christian fairy tail their wealth will save them.
And yes. They celebrate it. It's the coming of Jesus.
And remember the devout will be on board to help out.
Turn coat fucks that they are.
Why are you even here if you don't buy Dudeism as a religion? And you openly ridicule and disrespect those of any faith at all?
Dudeism is supposed to be non-dogmatic and outside of ones spiritual (or lack thereof) faith and practices... Your own path... Opinions... Which while you are free to have whatever you may as your own... we shouldn't be Undude in our treatment of other who hold different ones.
Perhaps there is a Church of Latter Day Walters you can join somewhere and enjoy your trolling? Or some Atheist hate group you can join?
(http://www.memecommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-3680-1365442519-3.gif)
Are the rest of the Dudes here really digging this? I sure hope not... I will hold on to my wallet before supporting more if that's the case.
Abiding,
Christian Dude
Quote from: ChristianDude on April 07, 2016, 08:58:36 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: RighteousDude on February 27, 2013, 09:58:33 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on February 27, 2013, 09:15:19 AM
They see it coming. A lot of what they are doing is preparing for that.
Nobody sees the writing on the wall more clearly than the "masters of the universe".
It's ironic that the end they see as near is one of their own making, and their own actions are the only thing making it inevitable. With the will to do it, the course could be corrected starting this afternoon. Without the will to do it the richies will be very severely fucked when the world they're creating is realized, and their wealth will not save them.
It is indeed a very interesting time to be alive.
Well if you believe the Christian fairy tail their wealth will save them.
And yes. They celebrate it. It's the coming of Jesus.
And remember the devout will be on board to help out.
Turn coat fucks that they are.
Why are you even here if you don't buy Dudeism as a religion? And you openly ridicule and disrespect those of any faith at all?
Dudeism is supposed to be non-dogmatic and outside of ones spiritual (or lack thereof) faith and practices... Your own path... Opinions... Which while you are free to have whatever you may as your own... we shouldn't be Undude in our treatment of other who hold different ones.
Perhaps there is a Church of Latter Day Walters you can join somewhere and enjoy your trolling? Or some Atheist hate group you can join?
(http://www.memecommunity.is,%20m/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-3680-1365442519-3.gif)
Are the rest of the Dudes here really digging this? I sure hope not... I will hold on to my wallet before supporting more if that's the case.
Abiding,
Christian Dude
I disagree, abiding should be the CORE of ones spiritual practice, that's what abiding IS, that's why we're here.
A more appropriate question should be, (for you at least), can you abide others beliefs, when you yourself, seem to treat non theist ideals with distain?
What we don't understand, we dislike, what we dislike, we destroy.
Instead, try to understand that just because your path is right for you and your kind, doesn't mean others have any less value.
To say that dudeism is a religion, is also not apt, it's more a worldview, an opinion or a perception, as EVERYTHING is. Again, no one knows with absolute certainty either way, they have their own idea as to how and why we're here. It doesn't matter really, the question is, what're we going to do with our short existence.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://atheism.about.com/od/religiondefinition/a/definition.htm&ved=0ahUKEwjw0ITeo5vMAhXJ1CYKHSnjA68QFghTMAg&usg=AFQjCNEFHrTyoa-hcypwzPy3VhS2RXT2cw&sig2=ZdFfYenjrcu0u5gluW3LRA
Quote from: Brother D on April 19, 2016, 02:29:46 PM
I disagree, abiding should be the CORE of ones spiritual practice, that's what abiding IS, that's why we're here.
A more appropriate question should be, (for you at least), can you abide others beliefs, when you yourself, seem to treat non theist ideals with distain?
What we don't understand, we dislike, what we dislike, we destroy.
Instead, try to understand that just because your path is right for you and your kind, doesn't mean others have any less value.
To say that dudeism is a religion, is also not apt, it's more a worldview, an opinion or a perception, as EVERYTHING is. Again, no one knows with absolute certainty either way, they have their own idea as to how and why we're here. It doesn't matter really, the question is, what're we going to do with our short existence.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://atheism.about.com/od/religiondefinition/a/definition.htm&ved=0ahUKEwjw0ITeo5vMAhXJ1CYKHSnjA68QFghTMAg&usg=AFQjCNEFHrTyoa-hcypwzPy3VhS2RXT2cw&sig2=ZdFfYenjrcu0u5gluW3LRA
I think my post here answers most of that. And of course all of my other posts.
Re: Hichens on Islam
? Reply #10 on: Today at 13:20:35 ?
I have never initiated a post that ridicules or even disagrees with another belief system here. I don't believe I have even implied disdain for non-theists outside of attempts at humor in reference to their lack of "beliefs" and that was on an individual level in response to their attacks on myself or the Christian faith.
QuoteWhat we don't understand, we dislike, what we dislike, we destroy.
I would put that back at the individuals who are embodying that statement in their trolling of Christianity on this forum. They are not responding to any threat to their personal faith/lack of here... they are initiating bigotry, criticism, a desire to exclude others, etc... This is not an opinion. Their post make it VERY clear and in many cases outright spell it out. Check out my other post referenced... All of these posts are made in direct contradiction of Dudeist 'opinion' regarding that kind of conduct.
I HAVE NOT DEVALUED ANY OTHER BELIEF OR PROMOTED MY OWN OVER OTHERS ON THIS FORUM... I
HAVE responded to others who have done so... And that not in defense of or promotion of the faith they attacked... Only that they did in fact attack. They are not 'sharing their opinions' or responding to a post to discuss something they don't agree with...
The fact that this is a prevalent prejudice in Dudeism has allowed this activity to persist... even though it clearly is contradictory to the Dudeway and Abiding.
I can't speak for everyone but I know the majority of the people here don't want to destroy Christianity, a lot of us however would like to avoid it for anyone of the numerous reasons listed in all the other posts on the subject.
Quote from: RandoRock on April 19, 2016, 04:51:44 PM
I can't speak for everyone but I know the majority of the people here don't want to destroy Christianity, a lot of us however would like to avoid it for anyone of the numerous reasons listed in all the other posts on the subject.
The funny thing is... I would most likely be in agreement with most of the reasons why people reject Christians or Christianity. But I find that while their experiences are valid and true in most cases... They did not really represent Christianity or what it really taught. But... again... I am not here... nor do I intend to... 'preach' that message outside of referencing where Christianity or Jesus align with Dudeism. I will put that other crap on my own site as you 'suggested'. Where people seeking that can go find it. This is the place for Dudeism... Which like it or not... attributed Dudelike qualities to those sources.