For those of you who believe the lies, propaganda and rhetoric we are already hearing on "gun control" being the answer (well done Dianne Feinstein, nice to see you using the deaths of 26 innocent people to forward your political agenda of gun grabbing, NEVER miss an opportunity, do you?); here is a little eye opening and sad history;
In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop ABSOLUTELY nothing...
The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults; at least 58 people were injured. The perpetrator first killed his wife, and committed suicide with his last explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7?14 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.
In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop nothing.
Historic UNdudeness; Bath School disaster - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster)
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/983/bathschooldisastervicti.jpg)
Note: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/feinstein_12-17.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/feinstein_12-17.html)
The fact that people have sometimes killed by other means doesn't necessarily imply that easy access to automatic weapons is not a significant factor in some mass murders.
I'm a gun owner and I love shooting as a sport but I had to go through some pretty rigorous police checks before I got my licence and I think that's a good thing. They also came to my home to check my gun cabinet security, which I think was a good too. You know we really don't need automatic weapons; handguns, shotguns and hunting rifles sure. Police should check for felonies and serious mental health issues - it just makes sense - a mon avis.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on December 18, 2012, 02:08:20 PM
In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop nothing.
Thanks for pointing that out, dude.
I grew up with a psychopathic parent. Fear of consequences keeps most of them more or less in line most of the time, but when that fear is lost there is
nothing that will stop them short of locking them up or killing them. If they think they can get away with something they want to do or reach the point of not caring whether or not they're caught, they will act. Period.
Granted, most psychopaths go their entire lives without killing or being convicted of criminal violence, and not all psychopaths are sadistic. The thing that makes them dangerous is that their view of other living things is entirely selfish -- another being might be valued, even highly valued, for what it provides to the psychopath, but that being is not viewed by the psychopath as having intrinsic value, as having that quality we call dignity, or as having any rights at all. Psychopaths also act very deliberately, not just in any violence they might commit but in every single action of their lives. There is no randomness in a psychopath. If they're committing a violent act, you can be certain that it was planned and mentally rehearsed many times, including contingency plans.
That's why gun control cannot stop mass murders. That's why metal detectors and the other trappings of fortresses cannot stop them. Psychopaths are cerebral beings and will defeat every countermeasure you might throw at them. If the school is impermeable, there are other targets that are not. If guns are inaccessible they'll just choose other weapons.
Mass murders are rooted in mental illness, not the availability of specific means.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on December 18, 2012, 02:33:37 PM
The fact that people have sometimes killed by other means doesn't necessarily imply that easy access to automatic weapons is not a significant factor in some mass murders.
I'm a gun owner and I love shooting as a sport but I had to go through some pretty rigorous police checks before I got my licence and I think that's a good thing. They also came to my home to check my gun cabinet security, which I think was a good too. You know we really don't need automatic weapons; handguns, shotguns and hunting rifles sure. Police should check for felonies and serious mental health issues - it just makes sense - a mon avis.
I say we ban baseball bats, and NOT worry about automatic weapons...(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/67766_568409349851758_770981439_n.jpg)
Quote from: RighteousDude on December 18, 2012, 04:20:48 PM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on December 18, 2012, 02:08:20 PM
In other words, if someone is going to kill, they are going to do so REGARDLESS of guns. Gun control will stop nothing.
Thanks for pointing that out, dude.
I grew up with a psychopathic parent. Fear of consequences keeps most of them more or less in line most of the time, but when that fear is lost there is nothing that will stop them short of locking them up or killing them. If they think they can get away with something they want to do or reach the point of not caring whether or not they're caught, they will act. Period.
Granted, most psychopaths go their entire lives without killing or being convicted of criminal violence, and not all psychopaths are sadistic. The thing that makes them dangerous is that their view of other living things is entirely selfish -- another being might be valued, even highly valued, for what it provides to the psychopath, but that being is not viewed by the psychopath as having intrinsic value, as having that quality we call dignity, or as having any rights at all. Psychopaths also act very deliberately, not just in any violence they might commit but in every single action of their lives. There is no randomness in a psychopath. If they're committing a violent act, you can be certain that it was planned and mentally rehearsed many times, including contingency plans.
That's why gun control cannot stop mass murders. That's why metal detectors and the other trappings of fortresses cannot stop them. Psychopaths are cerebral beings and will defeat every countermeasure you might throw at them. If the school is impermeable, there are other targets that are not. If guns are inaccessible they'll just choose other weapons.
Mass murders are rooted in mental illness, not the availability of specific means.
Well said, mang!
Hey, dude..does anyone remember the Laurie Dan shootings?
Happened some time ago,fairly close to me,in Willmette,Il
(I think I got my facts right..if not,please correct me)
Anywho...she killed some people with a RIFLE,and then used a HANDGUN to kill HERSELF..
The mayor dude of Willmete promptly banned all handguns..
Uhh...WTF? The logic there is lost on me...
Quote from: Stever on December 20, 2012, 10:31:31 AM
Happened some time ago,fairly close to me,in Willmette,Il
(I think I got my facts right..if not,please correct me)
Winnetka, IL. ;)
Quote from: Stever on December 20, 2012, 10:31:31 AM
Anywho...she killed some people with a RIFLE,and then used a HANDGUN to kill HERSELF..
The only firearms she used were handguns. A .22 Beretta semi-auto, a .32 S&W, and a .357 S&W. She also used arsenic and failed fire bombs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Dann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Dann)
Ah well,no research equals epic fail on my part..damn,Im lazy.
I stand corrected
Agreed dude. I would add though, not that you are saying this, but mental illness does not equal violence.
No,mental illness does not equal violence,I mean,look at how fucked up I am!! ;D
Just kidding!?
I do think that we need to look closely at the medications prescribed for metal illness.
And why these drugs are pushed.."oh,just give him a pill..he will be fine" sort of attitude is a real bummer.
Quote from: Leopoldrose on December 21, 2012, 11:37:23 AM
Agreed dude. I would add though, not that you are saying this, but mental illness does not equal violence.
I'd never suggest such a thing. That's why I was careful to point out that it's a subset of psychopaths who are given to violence. I didn't even mention Antisocial Personal Disorder... but it's an even smaller subset of those with APD who are given to violence. Never mind that there are three to four times more of them.
The major point remains: It's not the means that we have to fear, it's the mind.
Quote from: Stever on December 21, 2012, 12:13:10 PM
No,mental illness does not equal violence,I mean,look at how fucked up I am!! ;D
Just kidding!?
I do think that we need to look closely at the medications prescribed for metal illness.
And why these drugs are pushed.."oh,just give him a pill..he will be fine" sort of attitude is a real bummer.
Mental illness is way over-medicated. There's truck-loads of money in it for the pharmceutical companies because patients are often on med's for years and years.
I did an anterview with Ruby Wax a couple of months back about how effective Buddhist based 'Mindfulness Therapy' has been for her compared to medication.
So much so that Ruby has now done a masters degree in Mindfulness to become a practitioner.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on December 21, 2012, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: Stever on December 21, 2012, 12:13:10 PM
No,mental illness does not equal violence,I mean,look at how fucked up I am!! ;D
Just kidding!?
I do think that we need to look closely at the medications prescribed for metal illness.
And why these drugs are pushed.."oh,just give him a pill..he will be fine" sort of attitude is a real bummer.
Mental illness is way over-medicated. There's truck-loads of money in it for the pharmceutical companies because patients are often on med's for years and years.
I did an anterview with Ruby Wax a couple of months back about how effective Buddhist based 'Mindfulness Therapy' has been for her compared to medication.
So much so that Ruby has now done a masters degree in Mindfulness to become a practitioner.
"Like"
Quote from: Stever on December 20, 2012, 10:31:31 AM
Hey, dude..does anyone remember the Laurie Dan shootings?
Happened some time ago,fairly close to me,in Willmette,Il
(I think I got my facts right..if not,please correct me)
Anywho...she killed some people with a RIFLE,and then used a HANDGUN to kill HERSELF..
The mayor dude of Willmete promptly banned all handguns..
Uhh...WTF? The logic there is lost on me...
Will that be "The silicon chip inside her head was set to overload and nobodies gonna go to school today,she' gonna make them stay at home"? Boom Town Rats.Aug '79.
I thought she was still alive and in jail.
Quote from: Zen Dog on December 21, 2012, 08:14:40 PM
I thought she was still alive and in jail.
Laurie Dann was a whole nuther basket of nuts. The don't like Mondays chick was Brenda Ann Spencer, who is alive and (munching fuzz) in jail at the Chino Institute for Women in California.
Quote from: RighteousDude on December 21, 2012, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: Zen Dog on December 21, 2012, 08:14:40 PM
I thought she was still alive and in jail.
Laurie Dann was a whole nuther basket of nuts. The don't like Mondays chick was Brenda Ann Spencer, who is alive and (munching fuzz) in jail at the Chino Institute for Women in California.
Ah.The song was No1 here when I started on the railway 33 years ago.Shit,I've just made myself feel fucking old.
Quote from: Zen Dog on December 24, 2012, 03:59:34 AM
Shit,I've just made myself feel fucking old.
That ain't what does it, man. It's daring to stay alive after youth has gone and hanging around for the decrepitude and decay that does it. ;D
I've got the same problem.
There is no "answer". There is only common sense.
In the case of the incident in Conn. one can't argue that gun control would have had an effect.
It was a legal gun with a high capacity clip that the mother owned and had taught the kid to shoot.
(Despite a life long history of mental issues)
If he had been on a watch list for being nuts it wouldn't have mattered. It was her gun. 100% legal.
I have a lot of guns. I keep them in a gun safe.
All of that said Gun Control won't stop these things from happening.
It will prevent the occasional incident.
We can candy coat it.
But if I'm absolutely honest it comes out just like a mathematical certainty.
Put more guns into society and you WILL have more gun violence.
100% guaranteed.
A percentage of people will not secure them. A percentage will use them in bad ways.
And a percentage will be just plain stupid with them.
How bout the guy who took his 8 year old to the shooting range and let him shoot a fully automatic rifle?
Kid lost control and it flipped around and he shot himself in the head.
8 year olds Dude.
I know people who have AR's and Ak's and I even wish they didn't have them.
I cringe thinking about there kids. It's a wonder that nothing has happened yet.
I mean just accidents. Forget about the kids doing something on purpose.
Unsecured guns and reloading equipment all over the workbench in the basement.
I'm surprised that there aren't more incidents.
Should this mean gun control.
I don't care. I'm glad I can get the guns I like.
Fuck it.
Lets go shooting.
Fuck it dude,right on!
Secure your shit...
I think that mom having that gun around a kid with a history of mental issues was a horribly bad idea.
lets go shooting,dude...I think you may enjoy trying out my AK...just sayin..
Quote from: BikerDude on December 24, 2012, 11:30:47 AM
There is no "answer". There is only common sense.
In the case of the incident in Conn. one can't argue that gun control would have had an effect.
It was a legal gun with a high capacity clip that the mother owned and had taught the kid to shoot.
(Despite a life long history of mental issues)
If he had been on a watch list for being nuts it wouldn't have mattered. It was her gun. 100% legal.
I have a lot of guns. I keep them in a gun safe.
All of that said Gun Control won't stop these things from happening.
It will prevent the occasional incident.
We can candy coat it.
But if I'm absolutely honest it comes out just like a mathematical certainty.
Put more guns into society and you WILL have more gun violence.
100% guaranteed.
A percentage of people will not secure them. A percentage will use them in bad ways.
And a percentage will be just plain stupid with them.
How bout the guy who took his 8 year old to the shooting range and let him shoot a fully automatic rifle?
Kid lost control and it flipped around and he shot himself in the head.
8 year olds Dude.
I know people who have AR's and Ak's and I even wish they didn't have them.
I cringe thinking about there kids. It's a wonder that nothing has happened yet.
I mean just accidents. Forget about the kids doing something on purpose.
Unsecured guns and reloading equipment all over the workbench in the basement.
I'm surprised that there aren't more incidents.
Should this mean gun control.
I don't care. I'm glad I can get the guns I like.
Fuck it.
Lets go shooting.
Hi there,
I saw you own a gun safe so I was thinking about asking for your opinion.
I would like to buy a gun safe and I don't have experience so I was thinking about asking someone's opinion.
I was looking around and I found a blog with some recommendations is you are looking for a gun safe (https://proreviewly.com/best-gun-safe-reviews/), but I think it's better to hear someone's personal opinion. I know this is an old thread but maybe you will still answer.
Thank you
Just as a heads up: I edited your post, but only the part with the URL. It had an error in it, so I fixed the code.
It had pasted as something like http://"https://... so I took out the http and the quotes.
In my country you need some paperwork to use guns legally. And I am glad it is so, as I lived for some time with an aggressive family member suffering from Alzheimer's disease. You know, when you have somebody who uses things the wrong way all day long and screams like a baby, but is too strong to just sit like a baby, you are happy there are no guns around.