27 dead in US school shooting...
DB''s head is bowed :'( :(
Today was a day of terror and UNdudeness - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717)
head bowed here too dude. Crazy that some un-dude can get so deep into their own shit that they can be blind to the incredible suffering that they cause to innocent victims.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on December 14, 2012, 05:31:44 PM
head bowed here too dude. Crazy that some un-dude can get so deep into their own shit that they can be blind to the incredible suffering that they cause to innocent victims.
Very true.
I can't believe someone would do this at a school with little kids. Sad day Dudes... Not sure an oat soda and a burger will make this better....
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on December 14, 2012, 05:31:44 PM
head bowed here too dude. Crazy that some un-dude can get so deep into their own shit that they can be blind to the incredible suffering that they cause to innocent victims.
Fuckin' eh. Hard make sense of it. To try and stop this insanity means trying to understand the *why*. May the discussions ensue..........
This might be one reason why (the kid's that shot up Columbine High school were on these "psychotropic or psychotherapeutic medications") ...
Mark it ZERO; School Shootings Linked to Psychotropic Drugs Such as Prozac, Ritalin, Luvox, and Paxil - http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm (http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm)
From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/17/ritalin.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/17/ritalin.ap/index.html)
On May 17th, 2000 the United States House Sub-Committee on Early Childhood, Youth, and Families looked into reported problems with Ritalin. There are problems with over prescribing, giving samples without proper diagnosis, stealing, and selling Ritalin in the school yard! Ritalin is an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) in the same category as Prozac, Luvox, Zoloft, and Paxil. With just a little investigation there is a definite relation between School Violence and kids taking these drugs!
I would hope that the Sub-Committee on Early Childhood is investigating this problem through up dating old education laws, would see the under-lying problem of violence and SSRI's. Gun Control Activists quote that there are 30,000 gun deaths a year (1998). Sixty percent of those, or 18,000 were suicides!
Also, check out...
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-psychotropic-drugs.htm (http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-psychotropic-drugs.htm)
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/complete-index.shtml (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/complete-index.shtml)
Quote from: Hominid on December 14, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
Fuckin' eh. Hard make sense of it. To try and stop this insanity means trying to understand the *why*. May the discussions ensue..........
I don't know or profess to have even an inkling of what that dipshit in Connecticut's excuse was. But:
My pet theory: Here in the US we have reduced the value of every one of us to dollars, and we treat people like expendable units. Humans tend to get very resentful when confronted by this reality and the total lack of respect for their dignity. It's got so damned bad that if a guy doesn't have money enough hospitals will turn him away to go die quietly elsewhere -- sure, the ER will fix you up if you show up with a broken bone or having a heart attack or whatever, but if the thing killing you is a disease rather than an acute crisis they'll explain that there's nothing they can do for you. People are being pitched out of their homes because they weren't savvy investors and got fucked over by mortgage brokers. Employers treat their employees like shit, explaining that if they don't want the job there are many more who do. Wages that have failed to keep pace with productivity since the early 1970's are falling even faster today, leaving people feeling like the social compact was broken and that working hard and playing by the rules is punished rather than rewarded. And so on.
The "news" media function as political mouthpieces, convincing people that things are going to shit at an alarming rate and telling them precisely who is to blame for it. No matter how you're identified, there's someone somewhere telling millions of people that you're the cause of the problem, and the divisions have become real only because so many people believe them to be real.
That's what makes us so very different from every other "first world" nation on Earth. We've created an every man for himself culture, and we should not be surprised when those who lose the game lash out in anger. The dice are loaded, the game is fixed, the war is over and the good guys lost. Of course people are fucking up dramatically.
None of these factors together or individually justify the violence, but we shouldn't be surprised by it. Unless/until we start seeing ourselves as members of a community this shit is going to continue.
But that's just my opinion, man.
For anybody that - in a premeditated fashion - fills a duffle bag full of automatic weapons and cuts loose in a mall just because he's angry, there's mental health issues going on. HUGELY out of touch with reality. The cause? Anyone's guess.
we've been watching the coverage on CNN and see a lot of talk about gun control measures. I know we have a recent thread on this issue elsewhere and the immediate question is always " would this have happened if the person couldnt have got access to legally held firearms?"
in my experience, he might have went of the reservation anyway but with a knife or hammer or something else 20 children wouldnt be dead!
when a similar event occured in dunblane scotland in 1996, there was a knee jerk reaction with legilation, but we haven't had something of this magnitude happen again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre)
IF anyone can show me that domestic gun ownership has saved more people than it has killed in recent times i will be amazed!
Quote from: milnie on December 15, 2012, 06:18:47 AM
we've been watching the coverage on CNN and see a lot of talk about gun control measures. I know we have a recent thread on this issue elsewhere and the immediate question is always " would this have happened if the person couldnt have got access to legally held firearms?"
in my experience, he might have went of the reservation anyway but with a knife or hammer or something else 20 children wouldnt be dead!
when a similar event occured in dunblane scotland in 1996, there was a knee jerk reaction with legilation, but we haven't had something of this magnitude happen again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre)
IF anyone can show me that domestic gun ownership has saved more people than it has killed in recent times i will be amazed!
Check this out......A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.
Disarming the Myths Promoted By the Gun Control Lobby - http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/)
It doesn't seem to say what types of firearms were used by these "defenders". How many needed military spec body armor or an AR-15 with a hundred round drum magazine or high capacity pistols with 17-30 rounds in each hand? Gun control shouldn't mean gun eradication. No sane person believes that's even possible. The guns are already out there in the millions and since criminals break the law anyway, banning guns would be meaningless. Would the founding fathers have written the second amendment different if, in their time, it would have been possible for a lone person to walk into a room and massacre 30 people in a few seconds? I think so. The availability of guns does not cause people to go crazy and kill people, the real issue with these mass shootings is how we identify, document and treat mental disorders in people before they snap. But the problem with guns is they just make it too easy for people. One tiny finger pull and the whole world is different. Yes, truly crazy people could still blow shit up or whatever, but that takes a lot planning and materials. Not something most people caught up in a tidal wave emotion are going to accomplish, when they can just go buy or steal a gun and make everyone pay attention. Revolvers and hunting rifles/shotguns are different matter than military spec weapons designed solely for the purpose of killing humans. Complex problems require complex solutions. But what we have now is not working and people are dying. This whole thing just sucks balls from any angle.
How many of those people are trained to use a gun? You need a license to drive a car which takes a lot of training to get.
What's my point ... I don't know! I just don't see the need to own one. The mentality of having a gun because it's in the constitution seems similar to a religious belief and a we all know religion is falable
Quote from: A Stoned Buddha on December 15, 2012, 11:37:35 AM
It doesn't seem to say what types of firearms were used by these "defenders". How many needed military spec body armor or an AR-15 with a hundred round drum magazine or high capacity pistols with 17-30 rounds in each hand? Gun control shouldn't mean gun eradication. No sane person believes that's even possible. The guns are already out there in the millions and since criminals break the law anyway, banning guns would be meaningless. Would the founding fathers have written the second amendment different if, in their time, it would have been possible for a lone person to walk into a room and massacre 30 people in a few seconds? I think so. The availability of guns does not cause people to go crazy and kill people, the real issue with these mass shootings is how we identify, document and treat mental disorders in people before they snap. But the problem with guns is they just make it too easy for people. One tiny finger pull and the whole world is different. Yes, truly crazy people could still blow shit up or whatever, but that takes a lot planning and materials. Not something most people caught up in a tidal wave emotion are going to accomplish, when they can just go buy or steal a gun and make everyone pay attention. Revolvers and hunting rifles/shotguns are different matter than military spec weapons designed solely for the purpose of killing humans. Complex problems require complex solutions. But what we have now is not working and people are dying. This whole thing just sucks balls from any angle.
Well said!
Quote from: milnie on December 15, 2012, 04:01:25 PM
How many of those people are trained to use a gun? You need a license to drive a car which takes a lot of training to get.
What's my point ... I don't know! I just don't see the need to own one. The mentality of having a gun because it's in the constitution seems similar to a religious belief and a we all know religion is falable
Me, for one. Very well trained. Seriously, not childish bragging.
Quote from: RighteousDude on December 14, 2012, 08:03:55 PM
Quote from: Hominid on December 14, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
Fuckin' eh. Hard make sense of it. To try and stop this insanity means trying to understand the *why*. May the discussions ensue..........
I don't know or profess to have even an inkling of what that dipshit in Connecticut's excuse was. But:
My pet theory: Here in the US we have reduced the value of every one of us to dollars, and we treat people like expendable units. Humans tend to get very resentful when confronted by this reality and the total lack of respect for their dignity. It's got so damned bad that if a guy doesn't have money enough hospitals will turn him away to go die quietly elsewhere -- sure, the ER will fix you up if you show up with a broken bone or having a heart attack or whatever, but if the thing killing you is a disease rather than an acute crisis they'll explain that there's nothing they can do for you. People are being pitched out of their homes because they weren't savvy investors and got fucked over by mortgage brokers. Employers treat their employees like shit, explaining that if they don't want the job there are many more who do. Wages that have failed to keep pace with productivity since the early 1970's are falling even faster today, leaving people feeling like the social compact was broken and that working hard and playing by the rules is punished rather than rewarded. And so on.
The "news" media function as political mouthpieces, convincing people that things are going to shit at an alarming rate and telling them precisely who is to blame for it. No matter how you're identified, there's someone somewhere telling millions of people that you're the cause of the problem, and the divisions have become real only because so many people believe them to be real.
That's what makes us so very different from every other "first world" nation on Earth. We've created an every man for himself culture, and we should not be surprised when those who lose the game lash out in anger. The dice are loaded, the game is fixed, the war is over and the good guys lost. Of course people are fucking up dramatically.
None of these factors together or individually justify the violence, but we shouldn't be surprised by it. Unless/until we start seeing ourselves as members of a community this shit is going to continue.
But that's just my opinion, man.
Very well said,and I agree!
Quote from: milnie on December 15, 2012, 06:18:47 AM
we've been watching the coverage on CNN and see a lot of talk about gun control measures. I know we have a recent thread on this issue elsewhere and the immediate question is always " would this have happened if the person couldnt have got access to legally held firearms?"
in my experience, he might have went of the reservation anyway but with a knife or hammer or something else 20 children wouldnt be dead!
when a similar event occured in dunblane scotland in 1996, there was a knee jerk reaction with legilation, but we haven't had something of this magnitude happen again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre)
IF anyone can show me that domestic gun ownership has saved more people than it has killed in recent times i will be amazed!
I dont want to open up the gun control debate,but I will say this...
My wife works at a school,a "gun free zone"..security is a fucking joke,and I can walk into any school around here with a fucking flamethrower,a gun,and a bomb,any old time I please..same can be said for any hospital I have ever been in,and I am amazed that there has not been any random hospital killings..
Quote from: milnie on December 15, 2012, 04:01:25 PM
How many of those people are trained to use a gun? You need a license to drive a car which takes a lot of training to get.
What's my point ... I don't know! I just don't see the need to own one. The mentality of having a gun because it's in the constitution seems similar to a religious belief and a we all know religion is falable
A lot of training to get a drivers license? Not really..any fuck-wit that can memorize some shit can get a drivers license,PLUS,you get THREE trys to pass!
What is MY point? I dont know what Im blathering about..any time I am on the road, it is a near-death experience,and I have been nearly killed several times,when my car was NOT EVEN MOVING!
I find that scary...I own a gun not simply because I can,but because I live in the reality of knowing that when the shit hits the fan,a cop will arrive in 7-10 minutes..maybe..If I run across a very polite lunatic,perhaps i can ask him to kindly not massacre my entire family until the police come.
I kind of lost my train of thought there...
A very sad day,indeed,and the wall to wall coverage on the news is rather obscene to me.
I have no idea what is going on on CNN..I never check it out,but I am sure they are foaming at the mouth..I agree with Morgan Freeman,dude...
As an uncle of two, this tragedy tore a piece of my heart out. I hope that the kids who survived are able to take it easy once everything settles down.
As for the gun control debate that's going on, it's a bit chaotic from my point of view. I'm OK with people owning firearms for self-defense, hunting or even target shooting. I do believe that people should go to a firing range before buying their first pistol or rifle. In fact, every gun shop here in my home state (GA) tells that to every person that's never owned/used a firearm before!
Regardless of how everyone feels about people owning guns, a gun can't kill someone unless they pick it up and pull the trigger. The only party that's guilty for this massacre is the guy who killed those innocents men, women and children. Not the media, entertainment industry or the companies that made the guns he used.
What kind of a shit-weasel would go on this kind of a rampage?
We will never know what it was that snapped in this dudes head,but I think that most kinds of mental illness that can lead to this goes largely undetected,and/or undiagnosed,and untreated....say a big thank you to obamacare!
As a side-note to Obummer-care,2 out of 3 of my doctors will be leaving their practice..I guess the dude making burgers at the fucking in and out burger will be taking care of me now!?
Quote from: Stever on December 16, 2012, 06:04:04 AM
What kind of a shit-weasel would go on this kind of a rampage?
We will never know what it was that snapped in this dudes head,but I think that most kinds of mental illness that can lead to this goes largely undetected,and/or undiagnosed,and untreated....say a big thank you to obamacare!
As a side-note to Obummer-care,2 out of 3 of my doctors will be leaving their practice..I guess the dude making burgers at the fucking in and out burger will be taking care of me now!?
I agree with you when it comes to the whole mental illness thing, man. Most people with psychological problems just go to a shrink, get a Rx for some meds and that's it. People like the guys in CO & CT should go to a mental hospital until they are cured/properly treated.
I hope that people do that for their kids and relatives from here on out. Otherwise, this shit will continue to occur until the end of time.
Hey,dude,that is the truth!
My doctors just want me to see a shrink,and shove more meds on me...
I have Walter-like moments,and become very un-dude,but I would never,ever,ever do something like shoot anyone!
The meds are always pushed like crazy,but they dont deal with it beyond that..
Side-note here...Im flushing my meds,cuz they turn me into a non-thinking fucking zombie..Am I wrong?
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/525863_4832179039493_382257347_n.jpg)
Quote from: Stever on December 16, 2012, 06:04:04 AM
say a big thank you to obamacare!
Dude, the meaningful provisions of the Affordable Care Act are not even in force yet.
Once upon a time, we had
relatively generous public funding for mental health care and particularly for those cases in which public safety ("danger to himself or others") was at issue. Ronnie RayGuns eliminated it, and as a result the institutions were purged and we got widespread homelessness and increased criminality. Oh-blah-blah, who's two months older than me, was in fucking college when that happened.
I am not a fan of this president, or any since Carter for that matter, but we gotta cut the guy some slack where it's due. Drone wars and targeting American citizens for assassination do not win any favor at all in my book, but blaming a guy for shit he didn't even do is really very uncool.
I did misspeak-I should have been more clear-the doctors I am seeing now are going to leave ONCE obama care kicks in.
Ok,Regan is the guy to blame-fine and dandy,and my clarification above should have been in my first post.
Drone wars and targeting American citizens for assassination...well...I cut Obama ZERO slack for that.......... ZERO. Things like that go a bit above and beyond just saying fuck it..Im outraged.
But then,I am a cranky old fart,and uncool.
What a sad, sad day. I've been thinking about it most of the weekend, but without much resolve. My heart goes out to these poor children, the teachers, and their families. I really don't know what else to say about it man.
Senseless,horrible,cowardly...nothing else I can say..poor kids dying,and for what?
So some fucking shit-head could make some sort of..what? statement?We wont ever know what his motivation was-I have NOT been watching any news..has some new shit come to light,that we may have some sort of idea what the fuck was wrong with this asshole?
Quote from: Stever on December 17, 2012, 04:45:50 PM
Senseless,horrible,cowardly...nothing else I can say..poor kids dying,and for what?
So some fucking shit-head could make some sort of..what? statement?We wont ever know what his motivation was-I have NOT been watching any news..has some new shit come to light,that we may have some sort of idea what the fuck was wrong with this asshole?
He was mental. Period. I won't watch the news either, because the more they post his insane looking mug and talk about him, the more he gets what he wants. Attention and remembrance. I'm pissed that so many know his name- he doesn't deserve it! Here's an idea news media- how about you talk about the heroic acts the teachers did to try to save the children's lives? How about you talk about the victims so they can be remembered instead of talking about the little shit dick shooter? Oh wait that's right- that doesn't sell. Death and drama sell. Fuck the news media!
Man, I need a caucasian now.
Well,this should maybe make you feel better...I dont know the shooters name,or what he looks like.
Death sells,dude,sick fucks like this make the useless talking heads at CNN wet themselves,they fall all over themselves for it!
When was the last time you heard anything good on the news?
You and I both KNOW its out there..something good HAS to be going down somewhere,right?
I said fuck the so called news media a long time ago..my wife passes on the top headlines for me,since she is for some reason still convinced that CNN is cool.
I dont watch the shit,dude-you fucking cant watch,or you will just cry,every single day...
Quote from: Stever on December 17, 2012, 11:29:39 PM
I said fuck the so called news media a long time ago.
Good choice.
The television is a mind control device. The one in our house has never had a signal connection to the outside world, and isn't going to get one. It's used for playing movies and the wife's video games. The way we figure it, it's our responsibility to create the happy home and happy lives that we want, and inviting the shit that spews from television in is counter to our purposes.
FWIW, I also don't know the psycho fucker's name. Don't care to know his name, his background, what motivated him, or any fucking thing else about him. I've got well more than enough perfectly useless trivia in my head already, and I'm not one who's compelled to view traumatic images or read disturbing stories. There's no take-away from shit like that, just pointless emotional pain.
Quote from: Stever on December 16, 2012, 08:40:13 PM
The meds are always pushed like crazy,but they dont deal with it beyond that..
Side-note here...Im flushing my meds,cuz they turn me into a non-thinking fucking zombie..Am I wrong?
Just be careful when you quit using whatever meds you've been taking. Some of them can trigger nasty withdrawal symptoms. One of my old bosses stop taking Prozac a while back and started barking like a fucking dog a few days later!
I've never been diagnosed with anything that required me to take meds on a daily basis for the rest of my life. Just pain killers and antibiotics. For everything else, I just take a few bong hits and chill.
http://youtu.be/KRUErh47sao (http://youtu.be/KRUErh47sao)
I dial back my meds til I am clean,no issues so far.
My doc wanted me on the prozac shit,but I marked it zero,and we are trying something else.
I may be stuck with being on several types of meds for the rest of my life,but I try to stay away from the crap that ends up making me feel worse...lol
Quote from: cckeiser on December 20, 2012, 12:06:59 AM
http://youtu.be/KRUErh47sao (http://youtu.be/KRUErh47sao)
CC Dude; the video artist.
Far out video, C dude. Your art has been commended as being strongly peaceful.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on December 24, 2012, 02:52:40 AM
Quote from: cckeiser on December 20, 2012, 12:06:59 AM
http://youtu.be/KRUErh47sao (http://youtu.be/KRUErh47sao)
CC Dude; the video artist.
Far out video, C dude. Your art has been commended as being strongly peaceful.
Thank you DB...I wish I had, but I did Not make this one. Just felt it was just right for what has happened....all the angelss are weeping.