I consider myself fundamentally Dude. That is to say that I have always put the taking it easy (or in my case more specifically work in order to party) ethos foremost.
But I have to admit that I have an ongoing difficulty with the idea of a philosophy based on the character of the Dude.
I can't get past a lot of stuff about the character.
When it's said and done the Dude didn't avoid conflict because of any moral compass. I'm sorry I see no indication of that at all.
When the Nihilist set out to "fock him opp". He was a pussy. Plain and simple. There was no philosophy to it.
Walter was the real Dude.
He doesn't have a philosophical commitment to taking it easy. He's just lazy.
He's just the character that he is portraid as. An old former Hippie.
And the reason why we saw the peace movement and pacifism hit an all time high during the Vietnam war (no matter how loathsome the war was) is just because most hippies were chicken shit.
I mean objecting to a wrongful war is fine but where did all the pacifism and love go once the war was over? It certainly seemed to contract pretty quickly.
He is the ironic archetype for a generation. A phony.
Likeable enough but in the end there was no philosophical anything to the character.
That said I could probably smoke a J at a concert of roll a few with him.
But in the end he could have used at least some small measure of genuine Walter.
Everybody has to have some Walter to them when the chips are down or there just is no white washing it.
A well written essay, B Dude. (http://dudeism.com/smf/Themes/classic/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Quotebecause most hippies were chicken shit.
Really?
There's a fucking interesting book you should read called "Chickenhawk" Written by an Robert Mason an American Huey Pilot.
He called the book "Chickenhawk" Because they were chicken but they flew hawks!
http://www.robertcmason.com/textdocs/chickenhawk1-4.pdf (http://www.robertcmason.com/textdocs/chickenhawk1-4.pdf)
The above is a sampler.
This guy was hippie and a coward by his own admission.
I'd call him a fucking hero and and superb example of a human being.
Each to his own I guess.
Peace dude
QuoteHe is the ironic archetype for a generation. A phony.
I don't get that accusation. To me, being a phony implies dishonesty because you're putting forward something that is untrue, something that is intentionally deceitful. Sorry dude, I don't see it.
Yeah, I don't get it either. The Dude wasn't chickenshit with the Nihilists. He was pragmatic. A few bucks to avoid a fight? Surely if they were coming at him every day demanding his lunch money then he'd have to fight, but it was such an easy way out.
The point is that the Dude may have been an idealist in his youth (as most of us are) but he learned how complex and frustrating the conflicting imperatives of so many people can be. And so he is resigned to choosing his battles carefully. In many cases they are not worth fighting.
This is the same conclusion reached by many of the world's great philosophers. Interestingly, two great works of enlightenment era thinking were published at the same time with the same basic story and the same basic conclusion: Voltaire's Candide and Johnson's Rasselas.
And even in more aggressive philosophies like Nietzsche we can find shades of the Dude - that it is truly heroic to be one's honest self, regardless of what the prevailing mythos may dictate. The Dude wasn't great because he was lazy, but because he had the courage to be lazy in a culture that puts too much importance on cowboy/military/commercial aggression.
The Dude (and Dudeism) is a lot more subtle than it may seem at face value. I think that's why a lot of people who are hard working and ambitious still admire the Dude but don't exactly know why. It's because he's a true individual. Highly flawed and imperfect, but far freer than most of us.
I mean objecting to a wrongful war is fine but where did all the pacifism and love go once the war was over? It certainly seemed to contract pretty quickly. (//http://?%20It%20certainly%20seemed%20to%20contract%20pretty%20quickly.)
The war ended in 1976. The height of the "hippy movement" was in the late 60's.
The pacifism didn't disappear, it moved on to trying to stop nuclear war...it moved on to trying to stop poverty.
The peace war is ongoing and is peacing on many fronts...but the killing wars go on I'm afraid.
:(
Quote from: BikerDude on September 24, 2012, 07:43:07 PM
I consider myself fundamentally Dude. That is to say that I have always put the taking it easy (or in my case more specifically work in order to party) ethos foremost.
But I have to admit that I have an ongoing difficulty with the idea of a philosophy based on the character of the Dude.
I can't get past a lot of stuff about the character.
When it's said and done the Dude didn't avoid conflict because of any moral compass. I'm sorry I see no indication of that at all.
When the Nihilist set out to "fock him opp". He was a pussy. Plain and simple. There was no philosophy to it.
Walter was the real Dude.
He doesn't have a philosophical commitment to taking it easy. He's just lazy.
He's just the character that he is portraid as. An old former Hippie.
And the reason why we saw the peace movement and pacifism hit an all time high during the Vietnam war (no matter how loathsome the war was) is just because most hippies were chicken shit.
I mean objecting to a wrongful war is fine but where did all the pacifism and love go once the war was over? It certainly seemed to contract pretty quickly.
He is the ironic archetype for a generation. A phony.
Likeable enough but in the end there was no philosophical anything to the character.
That said I could probably smoke a J at a concert of roll a few with him.
But in the end he could have used at least some small measure of genuine Walter.
Everybody has to have some Walter to them when the chips are down or there just is no white washing it.
The Dude found a path of relating that was beyond pull-push (need-rejection). He had very little fear - even when facing an aggressive police chief or having his head pushed down a bog. Most of us are dominated by needs (approval, success, sex, acknowledgemnet etc' etc'). The Dude took love, sex and what have you when it came his way but he didn't have greed and need for it.
On the push side of things most of us reject because of: fear of intimacy, committment, other people's needs, avoiding the pain of them rejecting us etc' etc' but The Dude didn't push away. Even if someone was a complete 'asshole' he still loved them. He dealt with sexual provocation, aggression, idiocy and what have you without loosing his centre. For me the character is an inspiration.
When the chips were down Walter had courage but he was also greedy, angry and super-needy (his attachment to his ex-wife). I find him easy to identify with - he is the self I want to grow out of.
Quote from: Caesar dude on September 24, 2012, 09:32:55 PM
I mean objecting to a wrongful war is fine but where did all the pacifism and love go once the war was over? It certainly seemed to contract pretty quickly. (//http://?%20It%20certainly%20seemed%20to%20contract%20pretty%20quickly.)
The war ended in 1976. The height of the "hippy movement" was in the late 60's.
The pacifism didn't disappear, it moved on to trying to stop nuclear war...it moved on to trying to stop poverty.
The peace war is ongoing and is peacing on many fronts...but the killing wars go on I'm afraid.
:(
The last US troops left Vietnam in 1973 after over a year of drastic reductions.
Agree it didn't disappear. It became a sliver of what it was when people were likely to be drafted.
Your point is that it became Anti Nuclear protests and fighting poverty?
I don't much sign of progress.
In my experience I'll tell you what it became. Exactly what the 70's and 80's were.
The ME generation. The height of shallow materialism.
I'll go further.
We start with the rug pissers.
They shove the Dudes head in a toilet then while he sits there dripping the pee on the rug.
'IE' the Dude is the rug. He just sits there and gets pissed on.
Next scene he says that the rug "tied the room together" while talking to Walter and Donnie.
Walter continually says "shut the fuck up Donnie". The only reason that Donnie and Walter seem to be associated is a common relationship with the Dude. The Dude ties them together.
The rug is the Dude. Is just lays there and gets pissed on.
Quote from: Hominid on September 24, 2012, 09:02:17 PM
QuoteHe is the ironic archetype for a generation. A phony.
I don't get that accusation. To me, being a phony implies dishonesty because you're putting forward something that is untrue, something that is intentionally deceitful. Sorry dude, I don't see it.
OK point taken Phoney doesn't apply.
Quote from: BikerDude on September 25, 2012, 08:06:15 AM
I'll go further.
We start with the rug pissers.
They shove the Dudes head in a toilet then while he sits there dripping the pee on the rug.
'IE' the Dude is the rug. He just sits there and gets pissed on.
Next scene he says that the rug "tied the room together" while talking to Walter and Donnie.
Walter continually says "shut the fuck up Donnie". The only reason that Donnie and Walter seem to be associated is a common relationship with the Dude. The Dude ties them together.
The rug is the Dude. Is just lays there and gets pissed on.
Two against one. I'd sit there too. Pacifism or aggression are two options best dictated by the circumstances...
QuoteYeah, I don't get it either. The Dude wasn't chickenshit with the Nihilists. He was pragmatic. A few bucks to avoid a fight? Surely if they were coming at him every day demanding his lunch money then he'd have to fight, but it was such an easy way out.
The fact that he squealed like like a little bitch didn't help.
I don't think it's just ironic when Donnie asks the Dude why he needs his Johnson.'
I really think that the movie implies the limitations of the hippie ethos.
It just doesn't work on rug pissers and nihilists. And in fact when confronted by them it's shown to be a sham.
Quote
The point is that the Dude may have been an idealist in his youth (as most of us are) but he learned how complex and frustrating the conflicting imperatives of so many people can be. And so he is resigned to choosing his battles carefully. In many cases they are not worth fighting.
I don't think he was an idealist. I think he spent his time occupying various administration building and smoking tie stick. He followed the crowd.
Quote
This is the same conclusion reached by many of the world's great philosophers. Interestingly, two great works of enlightenment era thinking were published at the same time with the same basic story and the same basic conclusion: Voltaire's Candide and Johnson's Rasselas.
That's fine but I don't think he reached a conclusion. I think his knee jerk reaction was to give in not as a philosophical decision but as a coward. Walter said "what's mine is mine"
Quote
And even in more aggressive philosophies like Nietzsche we can find shades of the Dude - that it is truly heroic to be one's honest self, regardless of what the prevailing mythos may dictate. The Dude wasn't great because he was lazy, but because he had the courage to be lazy in a culture that puts too much importance on cowboy/military/commercial aggression.
It wasn't courage or a decision to be lazy.
Quote
The Dude (and Dudeism) is a lot more subtle than it may seem at face value. I think that's why a lot of people who are hard working and ambitious still admire the Dude but don't exactly know why. It's because he's a true individual. Highly flawed and imperfect, but far freer than most of us.
A lot of people like the Dude. He ties the room together. He's unthreatening.
I don't believe that a lot of people admire him. I think he's amusing.
The scene with Jackie Treehorn is a perfect example. In the end Jackie finds him amusing but basically a clown.
In fact I really dig Jackie Treehorn. Except for the rug pisser thing. If it wasn't for that then I'd say he is the guy that I admire. He is successful on his own terms. He has one hell of a party and he's got lots of money and he has it by not selling out. He made it outside the straight nine to five. Admittedly as a known pornographer but I don't have a problem with it.
QuoteYeah, I don't get it either. The Dude wasn't chickenshit with the Nihilists. He was pragmatic. A few bucks to avoid a fight? Surely if they were coming at him every day demanding his lunch money then he'd have to fight, but it was such an easy way out.
The fact that he squealed like like a little bitch didn't help.
I don't think it's just ironic when Donnie asks the Dude why he needs his Johnson.'
I really think that the movie implies the limitations of the hippie ethos.
I think that is the point. I think it is meant to. Not to champion it.
It just doesn't work on rug pissers and nihilists. And in fact when confronted by them it's shown to be a sham.
Quote
The point is that the Dude may have been an idealist in his youth (as most of us are) but he learned how complex and frustrating the conflicting imperatives of so many people can be. And so he is resigned to choosing his battles carefully. In many cases they are not worth fighting.
I don't think he was an idealist. I think he spent his time occupying various administration buildings and smoking tie stick. He followed the crowd.
That is what probably hmmmm 50, 60 percent of the hippies did. In my experience.
Quote
This is the same conclusion reached by many of the world's great philosophers. Interestingly, two great works of enlightenment era thinking were published at the same time with the same basic story and the same basic conclusion: Voltaire's Candide and Johnson's Rasselas.
That's fine but I don't think he reached a conclusion. I think his knee jerk reaction was to give in not as a philosophical decision but as a coward. Walter said "what's mine is mine"
The Dude simply lacked the backbone to stand up for himself.
Quote
And even in more aggressive philosophies like Nietzsche we can find shades of the Dude - that it is truly heroic to be one's honest self, regardless of what the prevailing mythos may dictate. The Dude wasn't great because he was lazy, but because he had the courage to be lazy in a culture that puts too much importance on cowboy/military/commercial aggression.
It wasn't courage or a decision to be lazy.
Quote
The Dude (and Dudeism) is a lot more subtle than it may seem at face value. I think that's why a lot of people who are hard working and ambitious still admire the Dude but don't exactly know why. It's because he's a true individual. Highly flawed and imperfect, but far freer than most of us.
A lot of people like the Dude. He ties the room together. He's unthreatening.
In that light what he is is his own business. He's easy to get along with.
I don't believe that a lot of people admire him. I think he's amusing.
The scene with Jackie Treehorn is a perfect example. In the end Jackie finds him amusing but basically a clown.
In fact I really dig Jackie Treehorn. Except for the rug pisser thing. If it wasn't for that then I'd say he is the guy that I admire. He is successful on his own terms. He has one hell of a party and he's got lots of money and he has it by not selling out. He made it outside the straight nine to five. Admittedly as a known pornographer but I don't have a problem with it.
Quote from: BikerDude on September 25, 2012, 08:06:15 AM
I'll go further.
We start with the rug pissers.
They shove the Dudes head in a toilet then while he sits there dripping the pee on the rug.
'IE' the Dude is the rug. He just sits there and gets pissed on.
Next scene he says that the rug "tied the room together" while talking to Walter and Donnie.
Walter continually says "shut the fuck up Donnie". The only reason that Donnie and Walter seem to be associated is a common relationship with the Dude. The Dude ties them together.
The rug is the Dude. Is just lays there and gets pissed on.
Sure the The Dude gets pissed on. He transcends it by not reacting. It washes off.
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on September 25, 2012, 08:40:49 AM
Quote from: BikerDude on September 25, 2012, 08:06:15 AM
I'll go further.
We start with the rug pissers.
They shove the Dudes head in a toilet then while he sits there dripping the pee on the rug.
'IE' the Dude is the rug. He just sits there and gets pissed on.
Next scene he says that the rug "tied the room together" while talking to Walter and Donnie.
Walter continually says "shut the fuck up Donnie". The only reason that Donnie and Walter seem to be associated is a common relationship with the Dude. The Dude ties them together.
The rug is the Dude. Is just lays there and gets pissed on.
Sure the The Dude gets pissed on. He transcends it by not reacting. It washes off.
You disgust me.
Piss on you then.
But that's just an opinion.
Quote from: BikerDude on September 25, 2012, 08:47:15 AM
You disgust me.
Piss on you then.
But that's just an opinion.
Not really on my list of sexual preferences, but thanks for the offer dude.
Can't. Help. Myself...... Pfffffff......
VAGINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Hominid on September 25, 2012, 09:00:00 AM
Can't. Help. Myself...... Pfffffff......
VAGINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tourettes?
Comic relief. I crack myself up.
Woah...guys, please stay civil, ok?
I came here hoping to find like-minded folks...not the 100000000000st flame war on the net...
Quote from: AspiringDude on September 25, 2012, 03:45:12 PM
Woah...guys, please stay civil, ok?
I came here hoping to find like-minded folks...not the 100000000000st flame war on the net...
I'm calmer than you are dude... ::)
Quote from: Hominid on September 25, 2012, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: AspiringDude on September 25, 2012, 03:45:12 PM
Woah...guys, please stay civil, ok?
I came here hoping to find like-minded folks...not the 100000000000st flame war on the net...
I'm calmer than you are dude... ::)
Ticht Naht Hahn has a nice story about calmness. He poured himself a glass of cloudy apple juice but forgot to drink it and went out for a walk.
He came back four hours later to find the juice crystal clear and realised "shit dude, when I meditate that's exactly what happens - through calmness comes clarity".
Biker Dude! Nice to have you here. It's been too easy for too long. We need more aggressive, macho Walters with whom we can practice our Dude Jitsu and our Abiding.
This can be sort of like Bloodsport and you can be Tong Po to Jean Claude, or Bolo to Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon.
It's also interesting to see how people can interpret the movie so fundamentally differently. Biker Dude considers the Dude to be a "pussy" and says he "squeals like a bitch"! Ha ha. Oh well, we need some dissent to keep things interesting from time to time. I personally disagree with pretty much everything Biker Dude said in his rebuttal to my last post, but that's just my opinion.
Aspiring Dude - I think that whole "you disgust me" and offer to piss on Boston was an ironic gambit meant to say "hey how would you like it if I pissed on you?" Am I wrong?
Still, let's try to dial back the irony. If you're going to pretend to be fucking asshole then use a fucking smiley face.
Quote from: forumdude on September 29, 2012, 05:08:00 AM
Biker Dude! Nice to have you here. It's been too easy for too long. We need more aggressive, macho Walters with whom we can practice our Dude Jitsu and our Abiding.
right on - values grow weak when not challenged
Quote from: Hominid on September 25, 2012, 10:40:19 AM
Comic relief. I crack myself up.
I do that a lot when drinking beer. ;D
Meh. It's not like The Dude ever said he was a prophet. Nothing fake about him, he just Is. And when you think about it, yeah, there are moments in the movie where he loses his cool about one thing or another, but he never fails to get back on that dudely level again. No grand scheme or philosophy to his actions though. He just strolls through life trying not to get into trouble. He's clearly not a fighter, which I guess you can interpret as being a pussy, but I guess to me, it looked like he was even too lazy to fight. Like he's thinking, "Sure, I could fight these nihlists, maybe get my ass kicked. Or, I can pay them off and try to extinguish my car somehow, maybe smoke a J."
Sure, if it were me, I'd be fighting back, but that's me, not The Dude. I accept him as he is: An ex-hippie and a slacker with no visible aim in life. There's not much else there. He ain't a prophet, nor does he pretend to be one.
For me the point is that most of us are too easily angered by aggression and that instinctual feeling of "being wronged" which impels us to fight back to defend our "honor" or to satisfy some cultural idea about what "being a man" is results in too many broken bones, lost lives, escalation of conflict, etc. Or even just depression and feelings of worthlessness (if you lose the fight, or if you chicken out). The point is to try to be pragmatic and unegotistical about conflict. The Dude was pissed off by the Nihilists but he also recognized that they could "end this cheap" by ponying up a few bucks.
Now if the Nihilists were really threatening something dear to them (Maude, Cynthia, the Pomeranian) then it would have made sense for the Dude to fight back. But the idealistic notion that "what's mine is mine" only means that people are going to fight over what hardly matters.
I'm a fan of Ethiopian culture, visited when I was in my teens and then wrote a novel about it. When I was researching the book back in 98 I was visiting the Tigre area in the north. At the time Ethiopia and Eritrea were going to go to war over a few square miles of totally barren disputed territory. I was chatting with some Ethiopian dudes about how crazy I thought it was and they said, "Yes, but if they take away our land, we have to fight them to the death."
The point is, it's a bullshit heroism thing imposed upon us by our cultures, and our genes. The urge to defend territory is so fundamental that we often don't realize how outdated it is. That's why no country in 200 years has effectively been invaded and conquered - because people would rather die than give up "what's theirs." Even if what is in dispute is a piece of shit (or a few bucks). Robert Ardrey's The Territorial Imperative discusses this quite clearly.
But we shouldn't be slaves to our instinct. Overcoming our baser impulses is a big part of what Dudeism is all about. Status anxiety, jealousy, desire, greed - these are all natural parts of our evolutionary heritage. But they were designed to help us fend off alien tribes looking to rape and kill us, or to establish a pecking order in times of scarcity. So in this day and age when we have so much, to be so hung up on machismo and codes of honor and sloganeering is positively anachronistic.
The Dude is not a prophet. Dudeism has no prophecy. But he's an example which we all could do well to follow because he's supernaturally immune to the parts of our brain that make us feel inferior, violent, and ultimately dangerous. I won't call that a heero, 'cause what's a heero? (See, the Stranger was making that very point - heroes are those who fight for honor and ego and status) But he's the man for his time and place. We all should try to be.
Okay, getting down off the soapbox now.
Quote from: forumdude on October 01, 2012, 05:00:32 AM
For me the point is that most of us are too easily angered by aggression and that instinctual feeling of "being wronged" which impels us to fight back to defend our "honor" or to satisfy some cultural idea about what "being a man" is results in too many broken bones, lost lives, escalation of conflict, etc. Or even just depression and feelings of worthlessness (if you lose the fight, or if you chicken out). The point is to try to be pragmatic and unegotistical about conflict. The Dude was pissed off by the Nihilists but he also recognized that they could "end this cheap" by ponying up a few bucks.
Now if the Nihilists were really threatening something dear to them (Maude, Cynthia, the Pomeranian) then it would have made sense for the Dude to fight back. But the idealistic notion that "what's mine is mine" only means that people are going to fight over what hardly matters.
I'm a fan of Ethiopian culture, visited when I was in my teens and then wrote a novel about it. When I was researching the book back in 98 I was visiting the Tigre area in the north. At the time Ethiopia and Eritrea were going to go to war over a few square miles of totally barren disputed territory. I was chatting with some Ethiopian dudes about how crazy I thought it was and they said, "Yes, but if they take away our land, we have to fight them to the death."
The point is, it's a bullshit heroism thing imposed upon us by our cultures, and our genes. The urge to defend territory is so fundamental that we often don't realize how outdated it is. That's why no country in 200 years has effectively been invaded and conquered - because people would rather die than give up "what's theirs." Even if what is in dispute is a piece of shit (or a few bucks). Robert Ardrey's The Territorial Imperative discusses this quite clearly.
But we shouldn't be slaves to our instinct. Overcoming our baser impulses is a big part of what Dudeism is all about. Status anxiety, jealousy, desire, greed - these are all natural parts of our evolutionary heritage. But they were designed to help us fend off alien tribes looking to rape and kill us, or to establish a pecking order in times of scarcity. So in this day and age when we have so much, to be so hung up on machismo and codes of honor and sloganeering is positively anachronistic.
The Dude is not a prophet. Dudeism has no prophecy. But he's an example which we all could do well to follow because he's supernaturally immune to the parts of our brain that make us feel inferior, violent, and ultimately dangerous. I won't call that a heero, 'cause what's a heero? (See, the Stranger was making that very point - heroes are those who fight for honor and ego and status) But he's the man for his time and place. We all should try to be.
Okay, getting down off the soapbox now.
Awsome post dude. In terms of defending one's honour etc' I believe that the best response is to transcend an attack. But if it hits you and it hurts you there is no point in pretenting to be the Dalai Lama. Here I like Nietzche's advice "if someone does you a great wrong go out and do seven small wrongs straight away, for a man who bears great wrong is fearsome to behold."
Sometimes we are so sensitive, that little things feel like great wrongs and so self-righteous that our 'small wrongs' escalate. So hey I gotta put my hand up - sorry about the 'Vagina' joke Caesar Dude. It was way over the line.
Quote from: BikerDude on September 24, 2012, 07:43:07 PM
I consider myself fundamentally Dude. That is to say that I have always put the taking it easy (or in my case more specifically work in order to party) ethos foremost.
But I have to admit that I have an ongoing difficulty with the idea of a philosophy based on the character of the Dude.
I can't get past a lot of stuff about the character.
...
Walter was the real Dude.
He doesn't have a philosophical commitment to taking it easy. He's just lazy.
...
Everybody has to have some Walter to them when the chips are down or there just is no white washing it.
I'm not too serious about my analysis of the holy media (notice that lack of a capitalization back there?), but the Dude didn't exist in a vacuum. His actions were mediated through those of Donnie and Walter. The Dude wasn't a literal person, he was a concept, balanced by other concepts.
Walter is part of the Dude, Dude. Am I wrong?
I mean, shit, I could be.
Quote from: BikerDude on September 24, 2012, 07:43:07 PM
I consider myself fundamentally Dude. That is to say that I have always put the taking it easy (or in my case more specifically work in order to party) ethos foremost.
But I have to admit that I have an ongoing difficulty with the idea of a philosophy based on the character of the Dude.
I can't get past a lot of stuff about the character.
...
Walter was the real Dude.
He doesn't have a philosophical commitment to taking it easy. He's just lazy.
...
Everybody has to have some Walter to them when the chips are down or there just is no white washing it.
Quote from: NobleElement on October 01, 2012, 11:37:01 AM
I'm not too serious about my analysis of the holy media (notice that lack of a capitalization back there?), but the Dude didn't exist in a vacuum. His actions were mediated through those of Donnie and Walter. The Dude wasn't a literal person, he was a concept, balanced by other concepts.
Walter is part of the Dude, Dude. Am I wrong?
I mean, shit, I could be.
For me the Dude is never the issue.
We're not meant to be emulating the Dude, the Dude is an example, a path one could tread, a direction one could take.
But you don't need to "Be like the Dude" to be Dudeist.
...
As I keep saying, stop trying to be the Dude and just get on with being.
...
On the point of aggression.
Last week I had a bit of a problem here at work. Someone got in touch with my Head of Department and complained because I didn't instantly answer her e-mail.
I cannot express how angry this made me.
I took Friday off and just boiled with bile (boil-in-the-bag Database Admin anyone?).
I got in today and my head of department requested a "word".
Expecting the worst, I was surprised when he thanked me for rallying round the previous Thursday.
The point I am trying to make.
Whilst I was answering her aggression with my own, she actually owned me, to the extent of actually spoiling some of my extended weekend with getting wound up by the incident.
...
A lot of individuals here and on facebook quote the "For all us sinners", but Dudeism is a philosophy without sin, unless of course you want to spend you're life chastising yourself.
Unfortunately a lot of focus is placed on "The Dude" in the film. He is not our jesus, he is not our god, he is not our Buddha. I don't think anywhere there is any inference that we should all become "The Dude". In fact I fully believe we should hold the attitude (taken from Zen)
Quote
If you see the Dude on the street, kill him.
All in my humble Dudeist Opinion of course.
I've always thunked that part of the magic of TBL was the interplay between the characters esp. Dude, Walter & Donny & I see this as being inherent in Dudeism too.
While Duder abides Walter (besides the rug pissers) is the agent of change, which can, of course, be violent and the engine behind the story. Donny is just the confused and innocent child-like babbling void who digs bowling & surfing.
Holding the Dude up as an example for a gentle Holy Fool is all well and good, and I hope that sometimes I act like that too but I've enough scars from those Walter moments where my line in the sand has been crossed & I know that I've crossed a fair few lines myself.
Again, it is the tension between those contrary parts of us that gives life its complex sparkle.
Meekon has an important job here at Dudeism to remind us all not to "be the dude" but to be Dudeist. However, sometimes I do think he has an itchy trigger finger in regards to the subject. We shouldn't throw the marmot out with the bathwater.
The point is that the Dude is estimable but not because he's cool or lazy or whatever. The element of the Dude that we should incorporate into our lives if we want to achieve a better state of mind is his immunity. I've said it many times - he is supernaturally immune to the dictates of society and the typical impulses of the human social animal when faced with conflict or superficial dearth. And of course, there are many of these types of characters in history we can use as examples. It's just that, for the moment, he is the most easily grokked.
Meekon is right that the Dude is not a savior or a Buddha, or a Jesus. Dudeism is a non-prophet religion. But it is also a bit paganistic (or perhaps a sort of non-theistic panentheism) which sees reflections of dudeness in many things. Our iconography is not chiseled in stone, however, but sculpted in silly putty.
But as the Atheist movement has shown, you need an iconography to get your head around things - thought generally does not exist in a vacuum - you need metaphors. So long as we take the Dude (and other elements of Dudeism) as a metaphor, then there will be no harm done. The beauty of this is that since he's clearly a fictitious character (unlike the supposed historical Jesus and other prophets) you'd have to be totally insane to see him as anything other than a metaphor. Built in safety valve to keep the sycophants and sociopaths away!
I see the dude as a painting of an idea, a way of relating to life and others around you, and an example of at least one way to abide. But that is just like my opinion, man.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on October 01, 2012, 11:00:18 PM
I see the dude as a painting of an idea, a way of relating to life and others around you, and an example of at least one way to abide. But that is just like my opinion, man.
to me, some of the ideas painted are:
Friendship
Non-violence
Feeling okay about yourself whatever the fuck anybody else thinks
Not being greedy
Valuing relaxation
that kinda stuff
Quote from: Boston Rockbury on October 02, 2012, 12:54:32 AM
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on October 01, 2012, 11:00:18 PM
I see the dude as a painting of an idea, a way of relating to life and others around you, and an example of at least one way to abide. But that is just like my opinion, man.
to me, some of the ideas painted are:
Friendship
Non-violence
Feeling okay about yourself whatever the fuck anybody else thinks
Not being greedy
Valuing relaxation
that kinda stuff
Fuckin' eh, sounds good to me, mang!
Quote from: forumdude on October 01, 2012, 10:12:24 PM
Meekon has an important job here at Dudeism to remind us all not to "be the dude" but to be Dudeist. However, sometimes I do think he has an itchy trigger finger in regards to the subject. We shouldn't throw the marmot out with the bathwater.
The point is that the Dude is estimable but not because he's cool or lazy or whatever. The element of the Dude that we should incorporate into our lives if we want to achieve a better state of mind is his immunity. I've said it many times - he is supernaturally immune to the dictates of society and the typical impulses of the human social animal when faced with conflict or superficial dearth. And of course, there are many of these types of characters in history we can use as examples. It's just that, for the moment, he is the most easily grokked.
Meekon is right that the Dude is not a savior or a Buddha, or a Jesus. Dudeism is a non-prophet religion. But it is also a bit paganistic (or perhaps a sort of non-theistic panentheism) which sees reflections of dudeness in many things. Our iconography is not chiseled in stone, however, but sculpted in silly putty.
But as the Atheist movement has shown, you need an iconography to get your head around things - thought generally does not exist in a vacuum - you need metaphors. So long as we take the Dude (and other elements of Dudeism) as a metaphor, then there will be no harm done. The beauty of this is that since he's clearly a fictitious character (unlike the supposed historical Jesus and other prophets) you'd have to be totally insane to see him as anything other than a metaphor. Built in safety valve to keep the sycophants and sociopaths away!
The Dude to me is, to create a new word, a "Zen-o-graphic" facsimile of the of the take-it-easy ethos.
Ooohhh - my head hurts now....
Background... prior to the last couple of years I have driven 45 minutes across a large Indiana county to pick a fistfight with a ex's new boyfriend (at his place of work) at 10 o'clock at night.
I have lost my temper and struck about four other men in the face for what I deemed to be disrespectful acts throughout the years.
I have punched friends in the face for being "over the line" as a man once said.
I was being what I thought made a real man, and putting people in their places and righting perceived wrongs.
Bottom line for me is though, those things made me feel more shitty. Those type of actions were due to me being unhappy. As I have a family I know what really matters and a little Walter to protect the family unit if need be is fine but otherwise life is way too short.
I have had 2 opportunities in the last six months that would have triggered an ass beating in my reactionary past. In emulating many things that I appreciate about the dude I relaxed and took a breath. I simply took a breath said "fuck it" and walked away and it felt better than any of that alpha male shit. The dude and Walter are the yin and yang, a little of both is good but life is too short to be so uptight and that is what has drawn me to dudeism. Sometimes a man needs to walk away (that and a pair of testicles.) Life is short and it's not worth it. Abiding and not reacting-- enjoying life while it's here because it's fleeting just feels damn good.
Quote from: DudeAbides 1983 on January 03, 2013, 10:40:55 PM
Background... prior to the last couple of years I have driven 45 minutes across a large Indiana county to pick a fistfight with a ex's new boyfriend (at his place of work) at 10 o'clock at night.
I have lost my temper and struck about four other men in the face for what I deemed to be disrespectful acts throughout the years.
I have punched friends in the face for being "over the line" as a man once said.
I was being what I thought made a real man, and putting people in their places and righting perceived wrongs.
Bottom line for me is though, those things made me feel more shitty. Those type of actions were due to me being unhappy. As I have a family I know what really matters and a little Walter to protect the family unit if need be is fine but otherwise life is way too short.
I have had 2 opportunities in the last six months that would have triggered an ass beating in my reactionary past. In emulating many things that I appreciate about the dude I relaxed and took a breath. I simply took a breath said "fuck it" and walked away and it felt better than any of that alpha male shit. The dude and Walter are the yin and yang, a little of both is good but life is too short to be so uptight and that is what has drawn me to dudeism. Sometimes a man needs to walk away (that and a pair of testicles.) Life is short and it's not worth it. Abiding and not reacting-- enjoying life while it's here because it's fleeting just feels damn good.
(http://dudeism.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
All you guys are just plain cool.
Quote from: DudeAbides 1983 on January 03, 2013, 10:40:55 PM
Background... prior to the last couple of years I have driven 45 minutes across a large Indiana county to pick a fistfight with a ex's new boyfriend (at his place of work) at 10 o'clock at night.
I have lost my temper and struck about four other men in the face for what I deemed to be disrespectful acts throughout the years.
I have punched friends in the face for being "over the line" as a man once said.
I was being what I thought made a real man, and putting people in their places and righting perceived wrongs.
Bottom line for me is though, those things made me feel more shitty. Those type of actions were due to me being unhappy. As I have a family I know what really matters and a little Walter to protect the family unit if need be is fine but otherwise life is way too short.
I have had 2 opportunities in the last six months that would have triggered an ass beating in my reactionary past. In emulating many things that I appreciate about the dude I relaxed and took a breath. I simply took a breath said "fuck it" and walked away and it felt better than any of that alpha male shit. The dude and Walter are the yin and yang, a little of both is good but life is too short to be so uptight and that is what has drawn me to dudeism. Sometimes a man needs to walk away (that and a pair of testicles.) Life is short and it's not worth it. Abiding and not reacting-- enjoying life while it's here because it's fleeting just feels damn good.
That's cool but remember it's a luxury.
Driving across country to beat up an ex's boyfriend is very different from fighting an intruder that busts into your house or standing up to social injustice.
I go back to the comparison of the Dude to old negro stereotypes of the black face era.
They portrayed Negros as Lazy shiftless and dumb. Is the Dude the equivalent stereotype of an old washed up hippie slacker?
I'm sure it was much easier for blacks to just "Abide" by whatever treatment they were given and roll over.
In the short term at least that provided the least difficulty. But I think we can see that it lacks moral character.
If emulating the Dude stops a person (not you) from being an uptight asshole that one thing.
But if it leads to a place where you roll over and take it even if somebody breaks into your house and stuffs your head in the toilet that's another thing entirely.
Both extremes are not good.
a?bide (-bd)
v. a?bode (-bd) or a?bid?ed, a?bid?ing, a?bides
v.tr.
1. To put up with; tolerate: can't abide such incompetence. See Synonyms at bear1.
2. To wait patiently for: "I will abide the coming of my lord" (Tennyson).
3. To withstand: a thermoplastic that will abide rough use and great heat.
v.intr.
1. To remain in a place.
2. To continue to be sure or firm; endure. See Synonyms at stay1.
3. To dwell or sojourn.
Idiom:
abide by
To conform to; comply with: abide by the rules; had to abide by the judge's decision.
One of the things I love about the Dude's character is in that early early scene, when his head has been shoved down the toilet. They say 'where's the money, lebowski' and he says 'i think it's down there somewhere'
now forgive me if i'm wrong, but that's not something you say if you're shying away from a fight... he simply isn't going to use violence,
I really agree with you Bikerdude.
I wasn't trying to usurp this post and make it about my shit by any means, but being a little more dude and attempting a less to be Charles Bronson has been good for me.
Too much pacifism can be attributed to pure laziness and apathy when something needs to be done. Too much assertiveness can be equally bad . I think anyone posting here would stop an old lady from being mugged or another similar injustice. For me though the sea change has been relaxing and abiding some little shit that really won't matter in 2 days anyway.
I dig your style though man. By the way, where was the bionic looking Macho Man pic you used to use from?
I like to think the dude is never really afraid, it's just that he realizes that this stuff is not worth it.
Like the scene where they are confronted by the nihilists...the dude just wanted to give them a few bucks and let it go. In the long run what are a few dollars? I get the fact that "what's mine is mine" as Walter said. In retrospect though, the excitement from the scuffle lead to a myocardial infarction for Donny. I would pay a few bucks to keep a friend safe from risking harm. Although ill-prepared those crazed Germans techno junkies did have a sword as well. Fuck that. Pay them. I think for me dudeism is the ultimate expression of fuck it, let what's not worth is truly slide. I know that last line is a little Fight Club.