Greetings to all Dudists and what have you. I'm new here. I'm just coming on to my meds and feeling pretty dapper so here goes my philosophical rant.
It recently occurred to me in reading about the influence of Ayn Rand on popular political culture, that I am an Inverted Randian Objectivist. For instance, take your John Galt, your captain of industry, corporate CEO, Big Lebowski or what have you. I believe that this kind of person serves a usefull purpose. Somebody has to do it. But I also believe that they are one of the lowest forms of human expression and should (in a more enlightened society) be kept in their place. They should exist to serve us Dudes and more enlightened folk.
An interesting historical example of this value is ancient India in the time of the Buddha. The wandering mendicants (monks, what have you) were considered the most honored members of society. It was the duty of all other members of society to donate food, land or whatever the mendicants required to purse the religious life. The laypeople who did this were thought to be acquiring spiritual merit.
Jut the opposite of the anxiety driven Protestant work ethic we are up against in our culture.
I realize that this is just my opinion man so taker 'er easy.
May all beings be peaceful,
Chester
Interesting point of view, but Rand's influence, or is that just Rand was an acute observer?
Please remember Rand spiraled into depression when she realised that "Atlas Shrugged" was not going to be accept as the master work of genius she herself believed it was.
I have a couple of copies of the thing but friend of mine is the only person I know who has actually read some of it (very tough going according to him).
Also would Murdoch not be more the John Galt figure (with all the logical floors and weaknesses).
I often think Rand's philosophy was merely a vehicle for putting herself at the pinnacle of a society she was ill suited to exist in.
Quote from: meekon5 on July 21, 2011, 11:47:28 AM
Interesting point of view, but Rand's influence, or is that just Rand was an acute observer?
Good point. For the most part she probably was just observing an existing phenomenon. She does have legions of modern day devotees who worship at her alter of amoral nihilistic greed. This is what I observe as the polar opposite of the Dude.
I admit I've never gotten through any of her books either. They seem incredibly tedious with no payoff that I could see.
Murdoch is certainly the most pathological conclusion to this kind of mentality, but I think it's all of the mini-Galts and Galt wannabees that are allowing our country to be led into the next dark age.
Rand ended up on SS and medicare, she fed from the hand she bit. Also her philosophy has to assume every individual gets the same exact opportunities, like being born into the same amount of wealth, and the same health situation.
Can't disagree there revgms.
There was quite a fuss made about the fact she went back on her own word towards the end. also many claimed it undermined the validity of her philosophy by not being able to stand by its doctrine in the end.
Randian philosophy sees the world as a giant Monopoly game, except in the real world we are all not given $1,500 to start, some are born already in jail and some are born already owning Boardwalk. It is not fair, nothing is, to base a world view on the premise that everything is fair and equal is ludicrous. Everything is fundamentally equal, but not phenomenally equal.
Life is a game, but not that kind of game.
IMHO Ayn Rand was a product of her time.
Her polarized world view was in keeping with much of the nonsense of the cold war era.
People gravitated toward over simplified world views.
Much like today.
Seems like as the world becomes more difficult to understand these type of over simplified, black and white, good vs bad, explanations become much more appealing to people.
I truly believe this is the same reason why Rush and Hannity and Beck and the ilk are such a big hit.
By not letting things like facts get in the way you can boil the entire universe down to some very simple explanations and ludicrous stereotypes.
Quote
There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.
Ayn Rand
She was an idiot.
At very least she was quite un Dude
Quote from: Wait a minute Chester on July 21, 2011, 10:45:31 AM
Greetings to all Dudists and what have you. I'm new here. I'm just coming on to my meds and feeling pretty dapper so here goes my philosophical rant.
It recently occurred to me in reading about the influence of Ayn Rand on popular political culture, that I am an Inverted Randian Objectivist. For instance, take your John Galt, your captain of industry, corporate CEO, Big Lebowski or what have you. I believe that this kind of person serves a usefull purpose. Somebody has to do it. But I also believe that they are one of the lowest forms of human expression and should (in a more enlightened society) be kept in their place. They should exist to serve us Dudes and more enlightened folk.
An interesting historical example of this value is ancient India in the time of the Buddha. The wandering mendicants (monks, what have you) were considered the most honored members of society. It was the duty of all other members of society to donate food, land or whatever the mendicants required to purse the religious life. The laypeople who did this were thought to be acquiring spiritual merit.
Jut the opposite of the anxiety driven Protestant work ethic we are up against in our culture.
I realize that this is just my opinion man so taker 'er easy.
May all beings be peaceful,
Chester
;D Personally, I am an Inverted Bowlerist Objectivist Abidist Oat Sodaist Jerk Off Manualist.
(http://www.thefilmcynics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/screen-capture.png)
............is this, ahhh, what day is this?
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
H. L. Mencken
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken
Quote from: BikerDude on July 29, 2011, 12:08:25 PM
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
H. L. Mencken
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken
Awesome quotes. Sort of reminds of another quote...
"...keep em' in the dark, and feed em' bullshit."
It is an expression of the beauty of the dudely marketplace that the recent "Atlas Shrugged: Part One" movie seriously tanked at the box office this Spring. Not a single drop of Kahlua in the whole thing. Which just goes to show, it's an extra difficult challenge to be a dude when you're also a speed freak.
Rand was right about one thing and once thing only, which is that social betterment should arise from individual choice and consent rather than the barrel of a gun. Other than that though, she was pretty hit-and-miss as a philosopher, and I don't think she ever really grokked liberty or freedom as a holistic philosophy, especially as it pertained to charity as a virtue which elevates mankind, or the capacity of man to seek higher spiritual truth without giving into religious dogma.
Quaker I can only agree.
I think she believed that her group as the elite would drive society forward to what they saw as what was best fro the rest of us proles though.
Ayn Rand was an elitist and a hypocrite. She used her own philosophy to try and better her own life and make an excuse for her selfishness, until the point when her affair blew up in her face because the married man she was carrying on with decided to followe her philosophy and start a new affair... the hole in her anti-altruistic society tore asunder and she couldn't handle him doing what he wanted because it stopped her doing what she wanted, which was to stop him doing what he wanted...
I don't often dismiss people and crackpots and "just plain wrong" in their thinking... but I'll make an acception here, just this one :)
OK, there is ALOT of stuff that could be said about Ayn Rand and Dudeism, but I think that if she were here she would 1. Love the movie. and 2. Hold The Dude up as a example of one of her Supermen, all be it in an unconventional form and be sincere about it. Think about it, he is a guy who lives completely in the moment, serving his own goals as judged by his own value set, defends his own right to property and integrity with equal and unconventional aplomb and is a man who operates pretty much his entire life in the world of creative people. He is himself a creative (tv writer) who has ensconced himself in the luxuries that he values off of the fruits his own creative efforts and his value to others (the dance recital).
There is a lot more to nuance to her works than simple procapitalist screedsmanship,{although there is some of that in there too}....
I spent several years working over her material and have personally rejected Objectivism in its full form due mostly to its virulent antireligiosity,and overarching vibe of negativity, but the woman had ALOT to say that is of value to a person on the quest of self actualization.
I think the problem with Ayn Rand and The Dude is... he does things for other people that is not for his own pleasure/need. The Dude is a natural altruist, but he balances it with some natural selfish endulgance, but never at the expense of others (well, maybe just one rich man's rug...) ;)
I personally think Ayn Rand is the Anti-Dude, if ever there was one :P
Naw, Mitt Romney is the Anti-Dude. Ayn and Maude are cut from the same allegorical cloth. Allied to The Dude and even agree with him on a lot of things but definitely in it for themselves and walking the righteous walk in a way that is incomprehensible to anyone not in their same skull space.... Now the lesson here is how to handle people like that. She eventually becomes The Dude's Special Lady. He accepts her, even her selfish parts and loves her in his own way, without ever giving up his integrity to do so. They accept and respect each other because of the common value held between them. Reverence for Individuality.
Ayn Rand's moral philosophy has more holes in it than my colander ;D
She had an affair with a married man, as it was her persuit of happiness. When he decided to take up with ANOTHER woman, she was enraged, as it was him actively destroying her happiness... but he did it to persue his own personal happiness, and her trying to snag him back was her working against his happiness, which made her a hypocrite, as your own persuit of personal happiness shouldn't detract from anyone else's... which in itself is an act of altruism, which is apparently a flawed system according to her... *head explodes*
She was just a selfish bitch who believed children were a needless drain on their parents... that's an evolutionary fail :P
Regardless of the character of The Dude, I believe altruism is part of being a Dude. If you're selfish, or just simply "not a nice person", you're not a dude, your just an arsehole ;)
Whatever Randian aspects there are in Maude, and that The Dude accepts in Maude, when I say Anti-Dude, I say that Randian philosophy is directly at odds with the Dudeist philosophy, for the most part. Ok, individuality, good, but, lack of altruism, bad.
I see what you're saying... but I respectfully disagree. Ayn Rand may have stood for individuality and persuing one's own happiness, but in a cold, loveless world. I mean, being an individual does not a Dude make. Just look at Boris Johnson ;D
Yeah, we are totally gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. But I have a bigger point here I view Dudeism as an ecumenical and inclusive way of life. Noone has a monopoly on wisdom or foolishness so the best you can do is listen to everybody and take the parts that you like, and dump the rest. Just by virtue of her volume of work Ayn Rand has quite a bit to offer if you are willing to ignore the obvious inanities. As per her personal life, I can't think of a single philosopher who has ever lived in complete congruity with their own work, with the possible exception of Diogenes.
That's cool. I'm always willing to learn the best wisdom from anyone :)