Benjamin Franklin dude.........
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Oh no you didint!
Ben is my guy mang, what most Tea Baggers don't realize is that he was a progressive socialist, lol, yup he wanted to limit personal wealth and believed almost everything we enjoy is a product of society,
check it-
All Property, indeed, except the Savage?s temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages.
Ben Franklin 12 25 1783
In other words, taxes are good because they fund society, society is good because it gives a means to better the individual.
Franklin might have been a fan of The Venus Project.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Yeah, that whole idea of personal ownership gets in the way of the VP. Also robot and fusion tech needs to catch up first.
I just checked out the Venus Project, it's amazing. I would love to live in one of those cities. Jacque Fresco is a true visionary.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on September 15, 2011, 04:45:21 PM
Franklin might have been a fan of The Venus Project.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Part of the problem with this forum is I miss interesting bits with the ebb and flow of chatter.
Having just seen this I have registered with them, fascinating.
Interesting because I am also a dedicated Transhumanist as well.
We are the borg,
Resistance is useless,
you will be assimilated.
;D
(sorry went a bit star trek there for a moment)
It's a great site and a noble concept, but I wonder if dudekind is ready for such a society without degrading into authoritarian type socialism, or worse, outright communism?
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on September 16, 2011, 10:08:16 PM
It a great site and a noble concept, but wonder if dudekind is ready for such a society without degrading into authoritarian type socialism, or worse, outright communism?
The day we stop having selfish, conniving, power-hungry tyrants in our midst, corrupt authority will finally disappear. Trouble is, there's no way to get rid of us. ;-)
Fuck it man.I've read too much science fiction and political theory to be hood winked into a perfect Utopia.
Give me imperfect freedom anyday.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on September 16, 2011, 10:08:16 PM
It a great site and a noble concept, but wonder if dudekind is ready for such a society without degrading into authoritarian type socialism, or worse, outright communism?
Oh no not communism?
Fact is there hasn't actually been a "Communist" state that actually ran as true communism yet (the USSR was never really communist just used the name).
But I know what you mean.
Quote from: Zen Dog on September 22, 2011, 03:38:01 PM
Fuck it man.I've read too much science fiction and political theory to be hood winked into a perfect Utopia.
I agree whenever a "new" system is put in place, there's always a group of self interested people who seem to somehow end up on the top.
Thing is to get into that group at the beginning, and be one of the people making the decisions.
Power corrupts.Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Humans are just mammals with an in built pecking order.
We learn to compromise and be rational to varying degrees because it's in our self interest.
I think the way they run Switzerland is as close as you'll get to a national democracy.
But even that ain't perfect.
Quote from: revgms on September 15, 2011, 03:05:31 PM
Oh no you didint!
Ben is my guy mang, what most Tea Baggers don't realize is that he was a progressive socialist, lol, yup he wanted to limit personal wealth and believed almost everything we enjoy is a product of society,
check it-
All Property, indeed, except the Savage?s temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages.
Ben Franklin 12 25 1783
Beautiful post.
Quote from: TulsaDudeistChick on October 16, 2011, 12:01:16 AM
Quote from: revgms on September 15, 2011, 03:05:31 PM
Oh no you didint!
Ben is my guy mang, what most Tea Baggers don't realize is that he was a progressive socialist, lol, yup he wanted to limit personal wealth and believed almost everything we enjoy is a product of society,
check it-
All Property, indeed, except the Savage?s temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages.
Ben Franklin 12 25 1783
Beautiful post.
Sounds like the tenets of National Socialism to me dudes.
But that's ok by me...what we got now sure isn't working. 8)
QuoteI think the way they run Switzerland is as close as you'll get to a national democracy.
But even that ain't perfect.
Like a Swiss fucking watch you mean? ;)
We were down in Almeria a few years ago, in a bar and one of these West Africans came round selling watches.
Well me and Richard says to Bill 'If you want to buy a watch you have to haggle'.
So the chap says'10 Euros' and Bill says '20'.
Needless to say..............It lasted a fortnight.
Quote from: Zen Dog on October 19, 2011, 07:37:48 PM
So the chap says'10 Euros' and Bill says '20'.
classic, ;)