The nihilists have kidnapped the girl, what can a Dude do to save her?
Maybe they are not all nihilists, and maybe the girl is our world, but any Dude can look around and see things are in the gutter. So what's a Dude to do about it? What can Dudes do? What is important to Dudes? And what do Dudes have to offer?
I dunno Dudes, is it time to form a league and join the tournament? If Dudeism were to become "Engaged", what would it look like? What unique gift do we have to share? And what are the things that are important to Dudeists that we should "roll" on?
The rug has been peed on Dudes, are we gonna let this aggression stand? Or is there a Dude inspired way we can chill for a better world?
That, and we can't let the Buddhists have all the fun. It is time, I think, to limber up, and help humanity start roll'n stones.
Thoughts Dudes?
Sounds exhausting dude.
What I like about Dudeism over Buddhism is low standers and even lower expectations.
Act without acting. Do without doing.
Fits very well with do no harm.
Fuck it dude...lets go bowling.
Yeah, but eventually ya gotta roll the ball.
Although, I totally agree with the take er easy plan, not forcing, not fighting, but being there, being Dudeists. Maybe not so much doing the things, but goin an watching, like performance art, it just needs encouragement. Some sort of Dudely version of bearing witness
I like the same thing you do, Dudeism appeals to my non conformist slacker point of view. I couldn't see any big Dudeist organisation, out there trying to change the world, Dudeism just defies rigid structure. That is what we all dig about it.
Engaged can mean just participating, the Dude didn't roll alone, he rolled with all sorts.
Besides, we all benefit from a more Due inspired world. Although I still ask, can there even be engaged Dudeism?
Well dude...we just don't know.
There are all kinds of Dudeist, if you wish to be an Engaged Dudeist I would say go for it. You just might be the dude for your place and time.
Just do not expect a slacker like me to get all reactionary over it.
But then, as always, that's just like my opinion man. 8^)
As long as there is one Dudist on Earth, it will survive. As will bowling.....................
Let's get us a lane.
Got one all tripped out dude! 8^)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otaFiBqGxEA
Quote from: cckeiser on August 30, 2010, 10:41:32 PM
Got one all tripped out dude! 8^)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otaFiBqGxEA
Dude, that's rad bowling.
Check this out, Extreme Bowling............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMypLC8bpbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMr2qXXPC0I
Quote from: revgms on August 30, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
...I dunno Dudes, is it time to form a league and join the tournament? If Dudeism were to become "Engaged", what would it look like?...
It would look like it looks now.
You missed the Taoist slacker synthesis thing then?
I live my life as an example to others.
Your call to arms sounds too much like evangelicalism (and too much like hard work).
Much as you have found us, the Dudes will come to us.
Running around shouting about it really is not the Dudeist way (In my humble opinion).
I think this is Dudeism engaged already, like the gently flowing river we will wash away all our opposition by doing exactly what we do best, nothing. ;D
Sit down, have a J, sip on another Caucasian, relax Dude, this is not Nam. ;D
True, doing something inescapable, even doing nothing is doing not doing, and sometimes that causes more to happen than doing, doing something.
Abiding is not nothing, it is doing, the only way to not do is to not exist. Abiding is about intention and timing, right action at the right time.
And yeah I don't like shouting either, but a butterfly can be as engaged as an elephant, and a volcano can abide as well as a Redwood.
Sharing our Dudeness is probably all I am talking about here mang, I think I am thinking about sharing some of our Dudeness with with our compeers. Supporting those that support our Dudeism, and abiding in general.
Think about this, when a guard engaged a wise sage, he engaged back, and for that we thank Lao Tsu. There is no Caucasian with out mixing, there is no J with out cultivation and there is no chill'n unless some clear the space for it.
I am trying to work through a thought here, and I really appreciate all the comments.
Besides, we have already engaged, look at the association with Kiva, that is engaged Dudeism in action. Like it or not you Dudes have raised the banner already. Before I even spoke a word, well here that is.
Have to say I'm agreeing with you in every aspect.
I wear the patches and badges of Dudeism probably from the point that I'm expecting someone to say "Whats Dudeism" so I can then engage their interest.
And I agree with the Kiva thing we may have popped our head above the battlements there, but for a very good cause.
Quote from: revgms on August 31, 2010, 05:13:21 PM
...I am trying to work through a thought here, and I really appreciate all the comments...
Like us all, and that's what the site should be used for.
Bumped for pertinence to recent posts in "What state thread".
How do we engage each other and the world at large?
Well sadly I don't think this is our forte.
Personally I come to a Dudeism bent via a pretty certain belief that people are by and large sheep and even when they believe they are organizing around some ideal they are actually just being herded.
I doubt it would be a Dude that would lead the revolution. Sure he might dabble a bit in writing "statements" and occupying administration buildings but I think this ultimately just leads to smoking a lot of tie stick and what have you. It's not to say that we lack strong convictions, I just think we feel the futility in it all. Given the right groundswell I suspect we'd be worthy fucking adversaries.
In the mean time lets go bowling.
Overall I dig all the Dude's style.
And at the very least there are the words of Jim Morrison (not so Dude)
Quote
I'm gonna get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.
Dig what's dude and call the paraquat paraquat.
I think the revolution is happening all the time. It never begins or ends, the whole cycle of the universe or whatever is the revolution. everybody on every "side" does what they think or believe they should be doing. I just want a world where its OK to do nothing and relax and learn things that i find interesting and have a rug that ties the room together and do a j. So by doing this I am already actively engaged in said revolution. If any dudes, or even non- dudes see my example and wish to join, even if only for a short period, then I know my work as a dudeist is being done.
My thinking on this is to just go where some dudely attitude can make a small relaxed difference, not for other dudes, but for those out there suffering from their own or other peoples undudeness.
Like I always wanted to go to disaster scenes and hand out coffee and provide chairs and blankets to the first responders. If anybody needs a place to chill and a warm beverage it is fireman or others dealing with some seriously undude shit. Stuff along those lines. Soup kitchens for the soul. Where people are stressed, that's where I think we should go, not with sermons or prayers or any of that bullshit, just some rugs hammocks and a quiet place to chill, we know how important that is, and it is what we have to share.
But I am just thinking aloud here, no where like trying to make a declaration or any such thing. I just loe this world and everybody in it, if I can help them find a little peace, then great.
Revgms. That sounds wonderful. I could certainly be down with something like that. I also think the soup kitchen sounds great. I used to work at a community mental health center, and met all kinds of people that just needed a little goodwill. The troubles i run into are not knowing how to set anything like that up, or having even the smallest dollar amount necessary to do it.
Quote from: Rev. R Lewis on August 25, 2011, 11:34:50 AM
I think the revolution is happening all the time. It never begins or ends, the whole cycle of the universe or whatever is the revolution. everybody on every "side" does what they think or believe they should be doing. I just want a world where its OK to do nothing and relax and learn things that i find interesting and have a rug that ties the room together and do a j. So by doing this I am already actively engaged in said revolution. If any dudes, or even non- dudes see my example and wish to join, even if only for a short period, then I know my work as a dudeist is being done.
That's the theory. Not sure where it leads but I also would like to think that it would lead us all to a nice beach community.
Quote from: revgms on August 25, 2011, 12:00:52 PM
My thinking on this is to just go where some dudely attitude can make a small relaxed difference, not for other dudes, but for those out there suffering from their own or other peoples undudeness.
Like I always wanted to go to disaster scenes and hand out coffee and provide chairs and blankets to the first responders. If anybody needs a place to chill and a warm beverage it is fireman or others dealing with some seriously undude shit. Stuff along those lines. Soup kitchens for the soul. Where people are stressed, that's where I think we should go, not with sermons or prayers or any of that bullshit, just some rugs hammocks and a quiet place to chill, we know how important that is, and it is what we have to share.
But I am just thinking aloud here, no where like trying to make a declaration or any such thing. I just loe this world and everybody in it, if I can help them find a little peace, then great.
That is Dude on the highest order.
Revgms if we had a pope my chimney would be spewing white smoke.
You are the Dude incarnate!
Yeah you say that now, you should see me before my morning coffee.
Revgms: I reckon it all comes down to empathy.
If you can see a little of yourself in other people then the giving is in some sense giving to yourself.
It's important, because I think altruism is at its core a very selfish act. I don't mean it's a bad thing, far from it, humans are essentially social animals & we need to interact with others of our species in a variety of ways. Just like I'm doing now. However, our giving outside the family/friend circle could be for a lot of people the sense of guilt for what you have & what others don't. Also your professional do-gooder tends to be a right smug bastard too & do it for the wrong reasons.
That's why I think if you can see something of yourself in others, then the guilt & hypocrisy disappears.
& that is truly the hardest part. A pure act of giving. Giving to give for no reward.
Alternatively, if I have one oat soda too many I can quite happily pass a twenty shilling note to some homeless bum lying in his own piss ...
Altruism is indeed a selfish act if one does it for a selfish reason. Its like you can't accumulate good karma through altruism if your goal is to accumulate good karma.
One of the key aspects I see thanks likes all Dudes?
We're all nice people. We're all good, honest, friendly folks who like to get along and don't like to ruffle feathers. But, surely, we don't mind smoothing them for those in need.
Kiva.com is a great example, the pooling of good will and community spirit for a worthy cause. There's nothing undude about helping others, even if it involves a little effort. But help comes from something small, like a smile, or a kind word, or a bit of pocket change you can spare someone who needs it more than you. Providing a more proactive aid isn't against Dudeism either, surely. We're not working and stressing and feeding the machine, we're easing and flowing and feeding the hungry (metaphorically or otherwise).
We're not into revolution with guns and shouting, but surely we're into a more intellectual revolution. The concept of the "rebel shrug" is surely that. Our most basic revolution is one of rebelling against conformity with independence and individualism and against the uptight ways of modern society by taking it easy and saying "sorry, I'm not interested" to stress. Dudeism is, by its very ethos, a revolution against the mainstream. It doesn't mean we couldn't take thing futher in a peaceful, laidback sense if we wanted to help something we believed in move forwards, like signing e-petitons and the like.
Great topic GMS, thanks for the bump (as I missed it in my long hiatus it seems).
Quote from: Reverend Dog on August 25, 2011, 12:26:08 PM
Revgms: I reckon it all comes down to empathy.
If you can see a little of yourself in other people then the giving is in some sense giving to yourself.
It's important, because I think altruism is at its core a very selfish act. I don't mean it's a bad thing, far from it, humans are essentially social animals & we need to interact with others of our species in a variety of ways. Just like I'm doing now. However, our giving outside the family/friend circle could be for a lot of people the sense of guilt for what you have & what others don't. Also your professional do-gooder tends to be a right smug bastard too & do it for the wrong reasons.
That's why I think if you can see something of yourself in others, then the guilt & hypocrisy disappears.
& that is truly the hardest part. A pure act of giving. Giving to give for no reward.
Alternatively, if I have one oat soda too many I can quite happily pass a twenty shilling note to some homeless bum lying in his own piss ...
A very Nietchean way of looking at things.(Friedrich Nietzsche.) He believed that all human actions no matter how seeming altruistic are actually motivated by a "will to power".
Edited with a more related link
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/travis_denneson/power.html
Quote
Every action toward another individual stems from a deep-down desire to bring that person under one's power in one way or another. Whether a person is giving gifts, claiming to be in love with someone, giving someone praise, or physically harming someone, the psychological motive is the same: to exert one's will over others. This presupposition entails that all human beings are ultimately and exclusively egoistic by nature. Therefore, according to Nietzsche, there are no truly altruistic actions.
Of course I don't believe it and find it's a philosophical rabbit hole. Self annihilating.
Hence the term Nihilism.
Hi BikerDude: Now here's a funny thing ...
Freddy Nietszche was actually considered to be a gentle wandering human by all those who came across him.
He, in fact, earned the name The Little Saint.
His whole philosophy was not based on nihilism(which he saw as the legacy of Christianity) but on how to go BEYOND nihilism.
He rebelled, in his way, against what he saw as the hypocrisy of Christianity & the 2000 years of culture that entailed. He also spoke very highly of both the Buddha & Epicurus (two of our dudely predecessors). & he brought fatalism (or Fuck It, Let's Go Bowling) back into philosophy where it had been hidden since the ancient Greeks.
I have always found his books to be joyful & humourous with a good healthy splash of sarcasm & it has been a shame that FN influenced both good & misguided thinkers but that is the nature of controversial & free thought.
I 've been reading him for years & have never felt the urge to piss on anyone's rug out of spite.
Oh Yeah, the day before he went completely doolally, Nietzsche witnessed the whipping of a horse at the other end of the Piazza Carlo Alberto in Turin, ran to the horse, threw his arms up around the horse?s neck to protect it & collapsed to the ground.
How's that for Dudliness!
Wow, I've learnt a little about olf Friedrich today, thanks guys :)
Of course, I'd say someone like St Francis of Assisi was a good dudely figure too, not that you mention the horse. It must be a pretty calming thing to treat sick animals like that. Much more calming and easy-going than treating humans, who mostly spend their time moaning and worrying, heh!
Everyone is altruistic because knowing you have done something good for someone else makes you feel good. Mother Teresa and St Francis did what they did because it made them feel good.
Nihilists do what they do for the same reasons, good people do good things and bad people do bad things because that's their nature and that's how they feel good.
As for the engaged Dudeism, well, if you exists you are engaged in something, and you minds something. Than what it is depends from you: some of us are engaged in themselves, some are engaged in themselves and others, some are engaged in themselves, others and the planet or whatever. We all think about ourselves, and that's natural, some think also about others and whatever.
I find cool those who lends a hand to those in need, because I know that when I've been in need those hands helped me a lot. Obviously you must be careful that your hand doesn't get bitten or that giving a hand you ends up giving an arm and a leg. There are assholes everywhere.
But I don't think that you can exist and not be engaged in something, especially when something good or bad arrives at your door, then you're forced to engage or leave if that's your answer, just my two cents dudes. ;D
Wow, some truly deep threads running through this...er...thread. I'm sure I'm in over my head, but that never kept me out of the water before.
"Engaged Dudeism". Interesting notion. The first thing that came to my mind was the old saying, "Lead by example." Easier said than done, since most people don't have the willingness to wrap their minds around Dudeism in the first place. They're so busy trying to "keep up with the Joneses" that they can't understand why we're perfectly willing to let the Joneses win.
And then there are those who seek "enlightenment" by following that old-time religion in whatever form it takes. I personally find most "organized" religions too limiting--they're about control rather than enlightenment, fear-based rather than love-based. Keep your parishioners fearful and you'll keep 'em in line. And, while you're at it, distract 'em with rituals and rules so they don't notice the lack of real spiritual guidance. That might be okay for those younger souls who are looking for an entry point; me, I want the full experience in what the universe has to offer (or at least as much as my human brain can hold).
No, I believe the best way to "engage" is simply to "be". You can't convince most people that their way of life is wrong and that your way of life is right any more than they could convince you the opposite is true (besides, that goes back to the control issues I wrote about above). Be an influence. Let them come to their own realizations in their own time. Let them ask the questions before you tell them the answers. Don't make it happen, let it happen.
just want to say i LOVE LOVE LOVE this whole thread, man! Awesome thoughts all around. abiding here in my own way,
hannah
Reverend Al you're certainly right. Nevertheless some kind of organization is needed if things have to go smoothly, especially as regards religion. Then, talking about ours, someone can decide if he wants to be inside the organization or go his own way. Everyone when alone can just reach a certain point, together with other like-minded compeers can go well beyond that point. And as you say leading by example is good if you have someone to lead, if you just stay on your own then you can just lead yourself. Which is cool, but affects positively only your life. That is, on a wider ground, little effective. But organization can have different levels, you can have a hourglass or a swiss fucking watch but you can't have any piece of the watch going its own way otherwise the plane sooner or later crashes into the mountain.
That is to say, do we want to go over being a bunch of movie fans and remain an internet club/religious joke/fake religion or we really want to have an effect on the real world? Because in the latter case we do need some kind of organization, some kind of tenets and so on. Well, we could also have the church to have two distinct trails so everyone would be happy. ;D
IMDO. 8)
True, and well written Andrea Da Fino. To be honest, I hadn't considered any form of organized Dudeism other than what I've seen on this forum and the main Dudism site; as I stated, in over my head in the company of wiser and more learned compeers.
I must say, however, that in the brief time I've visited this forum there appears to be some dissention in the ranks, i.e. that Dudeism often means different things to different people and that sometimes even we who proclaim to lead a life of Dudism can't agree on what that means (admittedly, myself included). Of course, that could be said of already established religions as well and they've existed for centuries, so perhaps true unity even among like-minded compeers is not possible.
Certainly we have the tenets handed down from Dudes Benjamin and Eutsey as a foundation, but are some Dudeists compromising that first draft? Is The Abide Guide our manifesto, or merely a self-help book? IMDO, any actual organization should come from the Dudes who started this or no rug will be able to tie the movement together. Then again, I have faith that the universe will see to it that things unfold as they should, so Dudeism will happen if this is indeed the right time and place; whether or not it should be a religion...well, that's for a wiser feller than myself to decide.
Could it not be said that engaging dudeism is as simple as recognizing and embracing the inner dude in us all? It is not something to strive for, achieve or "learn," but rather it is becoming aware. In fact, striving to engage dudeism is an oxymoron in that striving itself is not an act of slacking and more or less anti-dude. There is "dude" in us all waiting to express itself, one only needs to discover it IMHO. We are the inner dude. It could be stated thus; I am dude, therefore I am, or; there is dudeness, I am that dude.
Am I wrong?
Rev. Al, you're fucking correct. Mark it 8. Probably a lot has to do with how people see things, our personal point of view, or judgement. For me organization doesn't mean something necessarily bad, and I understand that, at least most of the times, to reach a goal a bit of organization is needed otherwise we risk to wander like a child in the middle of a movie, no real effect outside the net. As an example, there is the kiva lending thing going on, there is a difference if every ordained dudeist priest lends 1 buck per month or some sometimes lend 5 bucks when it happens. In the first example the kiva lending thing would have 100.000 bucks per month, in the second it can have 1.000 bucks, or none. An organized effort always wins; I'm using the word effort because I don't know a better one, not for its exhausting meaning. 8)
Dudeism embraces almost everything so everything can be seen as part of Dudeism. But the Church of the Latter-Day Dude is another thing, imdo. Being a Dudeist is one thing and being a Dudeist Priest is another one. The certificate isn't the only difference, again imdo. As you correctly say this is Olly and Dwayne business though. ;D
For some of us only the idea of having someone else ""above"" sounds uncomfortable but I personally don't find that organization and having a dudely llama or the archdudeship mines my freedom. Actually "too much openness" would sooner or later take us to get a dude cannibal, or a dude rapist. We, as laid down taoists just need to find the correct balance, which means not no organization at all, and means not being totally organized and uptights. Balance means balance, that is both of them like a white russian, half total freedom and half organization shaked well. ;D
That's Taoism and that's Dudeism: balance and harmony, not just what we like and nothing else. There is a different point of view between those who see Dudeism as a bunch of "self-centered" priests and those who see it as a loosely organized religion, both points of view are right and both points of view have the same "right" to be part of Dudeism. Or are we gonna take the same uptight trail of other religions in the future in any direction where some people tells the others what is right and what is wrong? One of the reasons why so many dudes leave the forum after a while, imdo.
Anyway, I've lost a bit my train of thought, but as you say there are just two in the world who can say what belongs to the Dudeist Church and whatsnot, than we can agree or disagree and even decide to be a freelance dude, which is cool anyway.
I think there is a difference between Dudeism and the church, Dudeism is the spiritual philosophy and the church is the church. Not all buddist become monks, and not all buddist monks are organized in the same way, yet they are all buddists. And in any case probably everyone misses the point of Buddha. Does it all make sense?
DB, you're right and correct. But, forgive me I can't resist, what if looking inside I find also Walter? :D :D :D
Quote from: Andrea Da Fino on November 24, 2011, 02:28:57 AM
DB, you're right and correct. But, forgive me I can't resist, what if looking inside I find also Walter? :D :D :D
You will find some Walter inside, we all do, that is part of us that also defines being human and a dude. You see, I think that "dude" consists of the Dude, Walter and Donny. All of that is in us. We become dude-like when we understand all that is within us. As one dude said; "know thyself." Or, as we would say "know thy inner dude." All of our inner dude.
Quote from: Reverend Al on November 22, 2011, 07:38:02 PM
No, I believe the best way to "engage" is simply to "be". You can't convince most people that their way of life is wrong and that your way of life is right any more than they could convince you the opposite is true (besides, that goes back to the control issues I wrote about above). Be an influence. Let them come to their own realizations in their own time. Let them ask the questions before you tell them the answers. Don't make it happen, let it happen.
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on November 23, 2011, 10:14:34 PM
Could it not be said that engaging dudeism is as simple as recognizing and embracing the inner dude in us all? It is not something to strive for, achieve or "learn," but rather it is becoming aware. In fact, striving to engage dudeism is an oxymoron in that striving itself is not an act of slacking and more or less anti-dude. There is "dude" in us all waiting to express itself, one only needs to discover it IMHO. We are the inner dude. It could be stated thus; I am dude, therefore I am, or; there is dudeness, I am that dude.
The Dude is, the Dude does not do.
The Dude abides, the Dude does not engage.
One does not become the Dude, one realises one is the Dude.
(http://dailymash.shotdeadinthehead.com/images/designs/DM4044.jpg)
(
teeshirt (http://dailymash.shotdeadinthehead.com/product_view.aspx?pid=2326) from the
daily mash (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/))
Quote from: DigitalBuddha on November 23, 2011, 10:14:34 PM
In fact, striving to engage dudeism is an oxymoron in that striving itself is not an act of slacking and more or less anti-dude.
I kinda think that depends on your point of view. I'd say that engaging Dudeism is fully part of it, and that Dudeism is not about slacking off to the extreme.
My view has been that a Dude is nice and conscientious and a part of the world around them. If a Dude idolising idling above all, aren't they in danger of sitting at home and ignoring the world around them and the needs of others, which to me smacks more of selfish arsehole than Dude. Surely, those are the real bums, and us Dudes rise above the ideal of nogoodnicks. We're the ones who take it easy for ourselves and others, but don't just take, we give back too.
I can see what you're saying that to actively engage does sound like an effort, but surely without effort the world stops turning. Who grows the food, who even picks the apples, or picks the fallen ones up and eats them if sloth is the prime objective. This was one of my points in the old Dudeciples article of mine, where I point out that the world needs to be Dude, but not THE Dude, because if we all sat down and shut off, we'd die out before you could watch every Coens movie, one a day, every night on the trot.
Surely we're not promoting a slacker culture, we're promoting a laid-back culture of personal wellbeing and happiness, good-naturedness, social bonding and charity. We're about a oneness that will benefit mankind, starting with individuals and filtering through the world as it makes its subtle karmic ripples.
A lot of religions tie in acts of charity into their credo. Sikhism and Islam feel a duty to their fellow men at a core, actively adding in tenets about it. Christianity and Buddhism are built upon such notions as well, although more in the philosophical sense than the direct rulings.
Surely what we are is not defined by our imitation of The Dude, but our own way of being which The Dude would also follow. Even if we were imitating, The Dude actively gives to Marty when he goes to his performance. That's passive or selfish, it's The Dude engaging. That's a lesson even Lebowskiists can follow :)
Quote from: meekon5 on November 24, 2011, 06:00:49 AM
The Dude is, the Dude does not do.
The Dude abides, the Dude does not engage.
One does not become the Dude, one realises one is the Dude.
I bow to your zenlike in-tao-pretation, but I still say that engaging is part of being. Not for one's self, but for the world we live in. Dude is a state of being, but being a Dude in the world require engaging with the world as a Dude.
That is... you don't need to engage to be a Dude, but, I think Dudeism should be apart more than personal Dudeliness.
What you are is key, but whatever you are defines your impact on the world as you engage it, so you can't avoid the issue of engaging unless you're a hermit, so for most of us (in fact all of us, if you're reading this you're engaging :)) we have to consider how Dudeism works on more than just a personal level.
DB, m5, Rev. Ed, far out and mark it 8. That's why I like this beach community, deep thinking, different points of view, laid-back/easy attitude. Isn't it great to talk in this way? About such interesting issues? I dig your style dudes. 8)
One thing to add is that when we discuss these various interpretations of what Dudeism is, we sometimes make the assumption that was DB is saying, or Rev. Ed is saying, or what m5 is saying is that THEIR interpretation and opinion is THE take on Dudeism. Rev. Ed's is more proactive, engaging, and socially responsible. We do indeed need people to produce. Then we need the slackers who buy what is produced. It's a rainbow; a combination of the various colours of Dudeism is what's needed, not a single interpretation that is THE only interpretation. Of course, all within the bounds of agreed upon principles and practices of a zen approach to life...
Make sense?
For sure, my input is just like my opinion, man.
Andrea Da Fino: You are truly enlightened; I have much to learn. And yes, the thoughtful and respectful conversations are one of the reasons I dig this forum's style.
Rev. Ed C: Right on. In TBL The Dude may be a slacker and is certainly a master of the art of relaxation, but he is not immobile. To the contrary, he engages quite often--he engages in his discussions with Walter, Donny, Maude, the other Jeffrey Lebowski, and everyone else he meets; he most definitely engages with Maude, whether discussing the case or enjoying zesty coitus; he even engages with Gary when ordering oat sodas or Caucasians. It's how he engages that sets him apart. He approaches people with no agenda other than the occasional need to set things right--seek recompense for his soiled rug, recover his stolen car--to restore balance. And, of course, bowling, driving around, and the occasional acid flashback (which, admittedly, is a delayed effect of previous engagements).
Hominid: Also right on. Even in Dudeism there is balance--those who feel we should be proactive and engaging, and those who are willing to allow others to be so while reaping the benefits; the producers and consumers. Neither is right or wrong, merely parts of the whole, yin and yang. Fabulous stuff, man.
Quote from: Hominid on November 24, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
One thing to add is that when we discuss these various interpretations of what Dudeism is, we sometimes make the assumption that was DB is saying, or Rev. Ed is saying, or what m5 is saying is that THEIR interpretation and opinion is THE take on Dudeism. Rev. Ed's is more proactive, engaging, and socially responsible. We do indeed need people to produce. Then we need the slackers who buy what is produced. It's a rainbow; a combination of the various colours of Dudeism is what's needed, not a single interpretation that is THE only interpretation. Of course, all within the bounds of agreed upon principles and practices of a zen approach to life...
Make sense?
Damn straight, H-man! One thing I've always said about Dudeism is that it's a fantastic philosophical melting pot. Whenever I write an article for the DP I much prefer people to respond and chip in, because either there's something I missed, or something I never considered and it enriches the whole point.
Dudeism is not about one man's vision, or copying the life of one man, it's about people throwing in opinions and ideas around the spirit of Dudeism. Listening to others and sounding out our own ideas and opinions can only enrich ourselves and each other. As long as we're not shooting wide of the goal and bouncing off the realm of the undude, it's all good :)
Quote from: Hominid on November 24, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
One thing to add is that when we discuss these various interpretations of what Dudeism is, we sometimes make the assumption that was DB is saying, or Rev. Ed is saying, or what m5 is saying is that THEIR interpretation and opinion is THE take on Dudeism. Rev. Ed's is more proactive, engaging, and socially responsible. We do indeed need people to produce. Then we need the slackers who buy what is produced. It's a rainbow; a combination of the various colours of Dudeism is what's needed, not a single interpretation that is THE only interpretation. Of course, all within the bounds of agreed upon principles and practices of a zen approach to life...
Make sense?
very much in line with what DB and ED have said, I'm not laying down my opinion as the law here, this is me testing other aspects and looking for ideas and comments on what I'm saying.
If you don't bat the ball around occasionally, it makes for a really dull game of cricket ;D
Quote from: Rev. Ed C on November 25, 2011, 06:23:12 AM
If you don't bat the ball around occasionally, it makes for a really dull game of cricket ;D
Good thread dudes. Now that we've solved the world's problems, all we need is another flame war. Where's the fundies when you need them? ;-)
Quote from: Hominid on November 25, 2011, 10:10:46 AM
Quote from: Rev. Ed C on November 25, 2011, 06:23:12 AM
If you don't bat the ball around occasionally, it makes for a really dull game of cricket ;D
Good thread dudes. Now that we've solved the world's problems, all we need is another flame war. Where's the fundies when you need them? ;-)
Careful what you wish for!
Hominid you're right, but, at the end, water remains water, whatever you call it and whatever minerals it contains. Water is water and it will never be wine. But the DL is working on this. :D :D :D
Reverend Al, thanks for your kind words but as everyone around knows I'm just a fucking amateur. ;D Also it seems to me that you already have the right frame of reference.
DB, Rev. Ed, m5 far out as usual. As I've said above a bunch of deep thinkers. 8)
Quote from: Andrea Da Fino on November 25, 2011, 12:56:00 PMReverend Al, thanks for your kind words but as everyone around knows I'm just a fucking amateur. ;D
Then we're definitely compeers. I'm hoping to make it to the finals, but to be honest many of my strikes are dumb luck and my toes occasionally slip over the line. ;)
It's Friday, dude, mark it 8!!!
:D ;D 8)
this was a mind-blowing thread to read.
i completely understand the impulse to be more engaged... the world has gone mad, and not many out there seem willing to say so in public or do much about, and those who do are berated and ridiculed.
and this whole concept of doing by not doing can seem like a really fancy rationalization for totally un-involved in our world and it's problems.
we can't fix most problems, but we can empower individuals to discover their inner Dude/Buddha, and thusly live a Dudeist life.
somewhere in the middle of the two extremes (evangelism vs inaction) is a Dudelike middle ground.
revgms seems to be thinking in the right direction- and the power that comes from being a growing group of like minded individuals can be leveraged to promote and manifest those kinds of actions that contribute in small but deeply meaningful ways.
i'm new her, and i've already posted a few posts where i point out that i would like to create some kind of meeting group in LA. that's the first step- meetings. real life gatherings, where local Dudes can collaborate on ideas and test them out in the real world. acts of compassion must be the Dudeist trademark, not preaching, or recruiting. but doing loving, groovy things for people who are suffering.
at least, that is my opinion dudes.
Quote from: Rev. Ed C on November 25, 2011, 03:56:36 AM
Quote from: Hominid on November 24, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
One thing to add is that when we discuss these various interpretations of what Dudeism is, we sometimes make the assumption that was DB is saying, or Rev. Ed is saying, or what m5 is saying is that THEIR interpretation and opinion is THE take on Dudeism. Rev. Ed's is more proactive, engaging, and socially responsible. We do indeed need people to produce. Then we need the slackers who buy what is produced. It's a rainbow; a combination of the various colours of Dudeism is what's needed, not a single interpretation that is THE only interpretation. Of course, all within the bounds of agreed upon principles and practices of a zen approach to life...
Make sense?
Damn straight, H-man! One thing I've always said about Dudeism is that it's a fantastic philosophical melting pot. Whenever I write an article for the DP I much prefer people to respond and chip in, because either there's something I missed, or something I never considered and it enriches the whole point.
Dudeism is not about one man's vision, or copying the life of one man, it's about people throwing in opinions and ideas around the spirit of Dudeism. Listening to others and sounding out our own ideas and opinions can only enrich ourselves and each other. As long as we're not shooting wide of the goal and bouncing off the realm of the undude, it's all good :)
The ol' Rev. Iconocclesiastes could not agree more, dudes.
Hi guys,
This is only one more opinion, don't know how right or wrong it is, tell me if you got an idea about it...
Dudeism can be a good or a bad reason to not think and act much.
If the mess around us is toxic and needs a fast reaction, dudeism can have negative impact on resolution attempts. To me thinking activism is undude is, just like, an opinion, which is against positive dynamism according to mine.
If dudes love nature why would it be undude to protect it if necessary ?
If dudes love individual freedom why would it be undude to fight totalitarianism ?
I don't wait for dudeism in my life to get engaged, the form of my icons wont change colors on my flag.
I want to use dudeism to live it the most peacefully I can, cause struggling can be bloody tiring and having a religion is made to help in such cases. Dudeism may be a good help sharing deep peaceful messages positive to my accomplishment in a funny and effective way.
I'm sorry. I wasn't paying attention.
No problem I was just publicly talking to myself...
I would add : dudeism may help activists to don't get too exposed if things don't go the way they would like. It gives tools to accept things we can't change. But dudeism wont be a great help to act upon things we can change and doesn't help much to make the difference between each.
It's a bummer, but it's better than make people believe there's a ready made philosophy able to do so. That's a personal work and responsibility.
So far, I have looked at what we offer the world is simply living the Dudeist philosophy. Of course, this can mean many things to many people.
I have a few essays I've written exploring the concepts of TBL. Once I find that notebook (fuckin' Larry Sellers), I'll be converting it into a blog of Dudeist sermons.
I am with you that Dudeism should be something we do and not just something we talk about. As an ordained priest of Dudeism, I try to stay tuned in as I don't think that should be a meaningless title.
Quote from: Rev. Jimmy on October 25, 2015, 02:41:23 AM...As an ordained priest of Dudeism, I try to stay tuned in as I don't think that should be a meaningless title.
I agree. But at this point everyone seems to have a different idea--similar, but different--about what Dudeism is, or should be, which makes it almost impossible for Dudeism to be taken seriously as a legitimate religion or philosophy.
True. I think the square community sees us as just fanboys, like the Trekkies are to Star Trek.
For me, Dudeism sparked my interest in Taoism. I see Dudeism as a marriage of eastern and western philosophies, illustrated by the meeting of the Dude and the Stranger. It's like some kind of eastern thing, but it fits right into America.
Perhaps the whole point is to be "the man" for your time and place.
Quote from: Rev. Jimmy on October 26, 2015, 06:32:34 PMTrue. I think the square community sees us as just fanboys, like the Trekkies are to Star Trek.
For me, Dudeism sparked my interest in Taoism. I see Dudeism as a marriage of eastern and western philosophies, illustrated by the meeting of the Dude and the Stranger. It's like some kind of eastern thing, but it fits right into America...
I think one of the things that confuses people is that we do take Dudeism seriously, but we also have a sense of humor about it and that gives some people the impression that we
aren't taking it seriously.
Another thing that muddys those waters is the Lebowskifests, for which your comparison to Trekkies/Trekkers and Star Trek is most definitely accurate. I think we get lumped in with that set of Lebowski fans in most peoples' minds and they either aren't aware, or don't recognize, that Dudeism isn't quite the same thing. And that's cool...that's cool. But that's just, like, their opinion, man, and it makes it more difficult for us to identify ourselves in the minds of the general public as something more than just costume-wearing, bowling, Caucasian- and oat-soda-drinking convention-attendees who happen to like the same movie.
I would largely agree that our primary contribution to the world would be to live the Dudeist lifestyle; therefore, lead by example. The problem with that lies with the fact that we are largely living that life in a private sphere (excluding friends, family and this-a-here forum). That's definitely a generalization but at least in my experience my Dudeism practice is pretty private. That's a good thing in some ways because it avoids the evangelical tendencies that I like to think Dudeism "actively" opposes.
However, I think it seems that the only ways in which we present even the idea of this lifestyle is through things like Lebowskifest, which seems like great fun, but as Rev. Al said, is not the same thing.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but it would be cool if we could find ways of making the Dudeist lifestyle a demonstration in certain contexts. Not so much of a political demonstration, but maybe find a way to show Dudeism as an alternative, using a public format that agrees with the philosophy, like sitting around on our asses as per usual, but in a public sphere.
Just a thought. Might be talking out of my ass. I also like revgms idea of providing chill zones for volunteers in crisis zones (just read the whole thread).
Get yer venue and we'll be there for the, what have you.
It's a real paradox, man. Religions tend to turn on themselves. I think it'd be nice to get together with other Dudeists. Perhaps we'd get together for bowling or tai chi. Perhaps we'd have a study group for the Port Huron Statement. There are so many ways you could go with it.
However, once a religion gets too organized, it's only a matter of time before someone lets power go to his or her head, starts treating objects like women and acting like a fucking fascist. So as much as I'd love to engage, I also fear what may become of it.
Do what you want and don't worry about it.
That is pretty darn Dude for my money.
In reference to engaging with the world as Dudeists, perhaps we've been thinking about it all wrong. When Christians do charity work, they usually make it very clear that they are Christians and let it be known what church they represent. Now, what is the point of that? It's advertising in a sense. They may very well be good-hearted people who sincerely care about the world, but they also have a goal of bringing more people to their faith.
We don't really need to spread the word of Dudeism, because we don't need to convert people to Dudeism. We have found a path to walk that resonates with us. We can engage the world as ourselves, just as the Dude represented himself.
I do not see the Dude as a Jesus figure in our religion. He does not represent moral perfection, as we can see that he has flaws. I see the various characters as representing different archetypes in the modern world, each with lessons to impart.
Quote from: Rev. Jimmy on October 27, 2015, 11:33:35 PM
In reference to engaging with the world as Dudeists, perhaps we've been thinking about it all wrong. When Christians do charity work, they usually make it very clear that they are Christians and let it be known what church they represent. Now, what is the point of that? It's advertising in a sense. They may very well be good-hearted people who sincerely care about the world, but they also have a goal of bringing more people to their faith.
We don't really need to spread the word of Dudeism, because we don't need to convert people to Dudeism. We have found a path to walk that resonates with us. We can engage the world as ourselves, just as the Dude represented himself.
I do not see the Dude as a Jesus figure in our religion. He does not represent moral perfection, as we can see that he has flaws. I see the various characters as representing different archetypes in the modern world, each with lessons to impart.
Yeah. In a way nothing captures the BS more than the thing they point to as most legitimate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABUKVMj9ocY
Engaging in Dudeism is going bowling and enjoying a few oat sodas IMO.
If I feel strongly about evangelizing I buy a round.
But that's just like my opinion man.
I see nothing wrong with the full deal. Dudeist retreats. A Dudeist vatican (bowling alley) whatever.
It's all good.
We need an order of Dudeist monks to tend a bowling alley. The bowling alley must be kept running on donations and volunteer labor. May as well get the tax exemption as it is a church.
Said bowling alley will use score sheets instead of computers and will generally be a laid back retreat from the working class grind. No cosmic bowling with goddamn disco lights and shit.
Quote from: Rev. Jimmy on October 28, 2015, 05:15:17 PM...No cosmic bowling with goddamn disco lights and shit.
Unless you're having the occasional acid flashback. 8)
And no fucking Eagles man!
As per recent discussion, I knew I'd seen this topic down there somewhere.
Quote from: Brother D on September 17, 2016, 03:25:06 PM
As per recent discussion, I knew I'd seen this topic down there somewhere.
And very interesting it is. Some deep thoughts and a goodly number of posts that resonate strongly with me.
Okay my fellows dudes. Just want to point out that any posting to this a here forum are engaging as Dudeists. Just sayin'. Further the Dude attended a performance of dance (?) and, I would presume, gave notes as requested. So I would argue that the idea of being dude is not about not doing but doing in a dudely way. The Dude not only abides but cares deeply. He didn't want any harm to come to Bunny Lebowski, nor did he toss Walter on the dust heap of friends past after the whole debacle of the ringer, the further destruction of the dude mobile and the fucking travesty that was Donny's funeral. He defended Maude from the perceived threat of brother Seamus Da Fino at risk to himself. When full realization of what the Big Lebowski had actually done, the dude recruited Walter to drive with him to confront the old man and get the truth.
Sorry, lost my train of thought there..
My point is being a Dudeist does not excuse you from engaging with the world. It does deny you the dubious pleasure of knowing you're right as a dudeist, like a Taoist, must admit of limited knowledge and occasional uptight thinking. At times like that I prefer to say "Fuck it" grab an oat soda and get a lane.
A fair point, however, taking it easy and keeping a limber mind makes engaging with the world more enjoyable.
Opting out is a choice and people are free to not get involved, but burying your head in the sand doesn't make problems go away. The whole point is to make the world a better place (at least your own little corner of it).
We all have our way of abiding and some take it more seriously than others but in the end, we all want the same thing - a peaceful life, for ourselves and others.
Would that make dudeist crusaders, Redi knights?
Quote from: Brother D on September 20, 2016, 02:45:58 PM
A fair point, however, taking it easy and keeping a limber mind makes engaging with the world more enjoyable.
Opting out is a choice and people are free to not get involved, but burying your head in the sand doesn't make problems go away. The whole point is to make the world a better place (at least your own little corner of it).
As I see it, opting out is not necessarily the same as abiding and taking it easy. As one of my colleagues on the council (I serve on our local Parish council) remarked a while back. Nothing seems to phase me. Well I hope he is right since I have long taken the view of let others have their uptight moments and when the dust settles, I will just get on with trying to do my best to resolve whatever the problem is.
Not sure I always succeed but that's life I guess. :)