Reactionaries

[jgiffin]

Well, at this point, it probably needs said that politicians have abused the "race issue" in essentially the same way they've abused the "gun rights" issue being discussed in another thread.

The left uses the race issue to fragment the population into discrete segments (i.e., interest groups) and promises rainbows and unicorns to garner their vote. They have no interest, much less intention, in solving the purported problem. That would eliminate one of their most reliable groups of voters.

The right, for its part, sucks law enforcement's dick at every opportunity, even when we have clear videographic evidence of an atrocity (racially-based or not). I'm generally not one for sub-texts but they tend to blow dog-whistles that cater to lower white-class frustrations, too.

Jebus, peoples. How is this still an issue? Either we're equal or we're not. Giving some people (white, black, purple, or striped) added consideration isn't fostering equality - it's perpetuating prejudices. 

Fighting for peace = fucking for virginity = discriminating for equality

[RandoRock]

Jgiffin from now on when I refer to a fella wiser than myself I will be referring to you.

[Reverend Al]

The whole "nature vs nurture" debate is something I've never taken much stock in considering, and please forgive me if parts of this are a bit too blunt, during my upbringing I was unfortunate enough to be involved in many a situation that involved various levels of abuse. I watched my mom get beat on a pretty much daily basis, I myself was beat on occasion, and when you add in the unfortunate things that would happen to me at night (I'm sure you get the point so I'm not going to elaborate) it makes for a pretty shitty time. In all that I learned one thing above all else, it sucked! It was an awful experience that caused me a great deal of pain over several years and still causes me the occasional issue to this day. Now why is this important? Because if I know how awful it is why would I want to do it to someone else? That's always the excuse you get from the woman beaters and child molesters is that whole cry baby bullshit about how it happened to them. That gives nobody the excuse to inflict that sort of pain onto others...

I agree.  But you clearly have the intellect and mindset that allowed you to recognize these negative experiences, overcome them, and make the conscious decision to not repeat them through your own behavior towards others.  Some people don't appear to have the ability to do that, or never had anyone to give them proper guidance and teach them these kinds of abuse weren't "normal" behavior, so they end up being "the victim" much of their lives.

Except for the occasional swat on the ass when I misbehaved, I can't say I was abused as a child.  But my dad was an alcoholic who some would describe as a "mean drunk" and he and mom would, to put it mildly, regularly have verbal and physical altercations while I was growing up.  Fortunately for mom, he was usually too drunk and uncoordinated to cause any real damage.  But mom made it a point to take me aside after many of these fights and explain to me that this was not normal behavior, and that I should never treat people that way when I got older.  If she hadn't done that, it's possible that I might have grown up following in dad's footsteps, so to speak.

...Based on what I've seen regarding how certain individuals are treated I've reached the conclusion that about 80% of the time(I'll agree that there are just some people who are racist asshats) its not someone's skin color that dictates how they are treated but more their demeanor and how they present themselves. It comes across as more of a cultural thing than a race thing. When a man, regardless of skin color, walks around with his pants hanging off his ass, being loud, obnoxious, and well everything else that fits the stereotype of "thug life" they are going to treated with a certain level of apprehension. Why? Because typically these are the fellas that are going to do something that makes your night way worse than it needed to be. This is regardless of skin color because I have seen quite a few white guys, Hispanic guys, and even the occasional Asian walk around with the thug life attitude. It's that culture and attitude that leads to negative interactions with law enforcement or really anyone in general. How you behave towards others directly impacts how they behave towards you and a good majority of the time race has very little to do with it...

I agree with this as well.  I can recall few instances in which I was treated negatively because I'm Caucasian (and race really wasn't the issue), but I have been judged based solely on my appearance many times.  For most of my adult life I've had long hair (at least to my shoulders), a beard or goatee, an earring, visible tattoos, my normal wardrobe consists of jeans and tee shirts, and in recent years I've worn a wallet chain.  So people see me and immediately think "biker" or "stoner" or whatever other stereotype my appearance conjures in their minds, and tend to treat me as such--they either avoid me, or have as little interaction with me as possible.  Until they talk to me, that is, at which point they find out that I'm friendly, polite, courteous, respectful, somewhat intelligent, have a sense of humor, and that I have no intentions of stealing their money, eating their puppies, or raping their children.  So, yes, racism exists, but I believe that more often than not most people will form or change their opinions of you based on the way you conduct yourself.

...Going back to the whole white privilege thing; I'm white and I can tell you from experience my life has not been inherently easier because of that fact. My own choices and actions led me to where I am and skin color was neither a help nor hindrance in pretty much any situation. Except for one blatant case of racist practices where My brother, who is half Mexican, and myself were both working at the same job, had the same college schedule, the same bills, hell basically the same lives except for the whole partly Hispanic thing. We both applied for food stamps since we were broke college fellas, he checked the Hispanic box and I checked the Caucasian box on the application. Other than that and the names on top they were exactly the same( we decided to make an experiment out of it) and when we got our responses back one was approved while the other wasn't. Care to guess who didn't get approved?

Several years ago one of my brothers-in-law and his wife had some medical issues and couldn't work for a few months, and disability pay wasn't covering the bills, so they applied for financial assistance just to temporarily see them through a difficult period.  The agent politely took their information and filled out the required forms, but also told them, "I'll deny saying this if you ever repeat it to anyone, but you probably won't get approved because you're white."

[BikerDude]

Interesting "experiment".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQhkMhdGUf8

To be fair...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-cvipwCcm8

[BikerDude]

Well, at this point, it probably needs said that politicians have abused the "race issue" in essentially the same way they've abused the "gun rights" issue being discussed in another thread.

The left uses the race issue to fragment the population into discrete segments (i.e., interest groups) and promises rainbows and unicorns to garner their vote. They have no interest, much less intention, in solving the purported problem. That would eliminate one of their most reliable groups of voters.

The right, for its part, sucks law enforcement's dick at every opportunity, even when we have clear videographic evidence of an atrocity (racially-based or not). I'm generally not one for sub-texts but they tend to blow dog-whistles that cater to lower white-class frustrations, too.

Jebus, peoples. How is this still an issue? Either we're equal or we're not. Giving some people (white, black, purple, or striped) added consideration isn't fostering equality - it's perpetuating prejudices. 

Fighting for peace = fucking for virginity = discriminating for equality

Like everything else there is probably an end game.
To drive people to extremes by subjecting the populace to difficulties and then suggesting extreme measures as the cure. It's the same old game really and it works like a charm. People are pointed at the enemy and eventually throw away there own freedoms.

Candid talk w/ Matt Taibbi on "Media-created hostility" in America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he0XWhv-Ddo

And more generally. (Old but Nothing ever changes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg63o7XiRac

[RandoRock]

Those open carry videos, while though provoking, fail to really prove anything. The only way that a test like that could accurately portray real discrimination would be to somehow have the same cop involved in both situations. All those really prove is one cops understanding of the law versus another. Now I'm not saying race had nothing to do with it because with that extreme of a reaction to a slung rifle the cop obviously had some kind of issues. It could be he's racist or it could be someone called it in and dispatch said armed suspect.

There was an incident awhile back where a man was shopping at Walmart, while shopping around he picked up and unboxed air-soft  rifle from the clearance rack and continued he's shopping. Apparently someone in the store called the police and reported an active shooter situation at the Walmart. When police arrived the man was looking at pet food with the rifle in one hand and his phone in another. The police rounded the corner and opened fire with no warning or hesitation. The man was killed and an investigation was launched into the whole incident. The man was black and at first this story made headlines because it was said to be racially motivated. It wasn't until the results of the investigation came out that it reviled that the police officers involved in the shooting had just went through active shooter training less then a week prior. In the training they were told to take out any active shooter threat on the spot, no warnings, no directives, just two center mass to eliminate the risk of civilian casualties. So when the police responded they were acting in accordance with the training they had received, instead of the media trying to bring attention to poor training and tactics as soon as it was proven to be non-race related the story was dropped completely. I bet a good chunk of people here never even heard about it because it didn't cause any racial tension. There was a real opportunity to shed light on a problem with police training and instead they chose to move on because it wouldn't cause enough hatred.

There are too many circumstances that go into any police encounter to prove without a doubt why an individual officer reacted the way that they did. Are there racist cops? Of course there are and it would be ridiculous to think that there weren't. The problems come when in every situation involving different races the cops are made to look like all their actions came for prejudice alone.  If people could look at situations as a whole before they start jumping to specific conclusions then I'm sure we'd see that more times than not it is not a racially motivated incident.

It's the same shit I get at work. If I tell a white guy to take his stocking cap off while he's in the day area, its fine. If I tell a black guy to take his do-rag off in the day area, it's because I'm racist and singling him out for being black. Both men live on the same unit, in the same prison, and were called out in the same way for breaking the same rule and yet one of the incidents was racist.

That's the problem with most of these videos trying to prove cops are racist, we've become so programmed to believe that any negative interaction between and white guy and a black guy is always racially motivated. Hell honestly we've been so blinded by the media that we are led to believe not just negative interaction but all interaction between white and black is some how racially driven. It's just craziness that all we can see is color.

Humans are the most genetically similar of any other species on the planet. If I popped a kidney and needed a new one tomorrow it could come from any other race and it wouldn't matter one bit. My body wouldn't reject a black guys kidney just because he's black the same way a black guy's body wouldn't reject my pastey white kidney. All skin color is, is an indicator of where your ancestor's lived in regards to the equator. People whose ancestors lived in hotter climates developed darker skin as a way to defend against the harsher UV rays. Vice versa people who hail from cooler climates developed lighter skin and more body hair to protect against the cold. That's it, when it all boils down to it all the racism in the world is just one person being angry at another for their natural SPF rating.

The only reason it turned into a white people vs the world thing was because Christianity told white people that they were better than the godless heathens that had never heard of Christ. If we can agree on one thing let it be that Abraham talking to God was the single worst thing that has ever happened in the history of mankind. In that moment he sealed the fate of billions and put in motion a system of power that would take over the world and never let go.

Ah Hell, there I go rambling again. 

[jgiffin]

It wasn't until the results of the investigation came out that it reviled that the police officers involved in the shooting had just went through active shooter training less then a week prior. In the training they were told to take out any active shooter threat on the spot, no warnings, no directives, just two center mass to eliminate the risk of civilian casualties. So when the police responded they were acting in accordance with the training they had received, instead of the media trying to bring attention to poor training and tactics as soon as it was proven to be non-race related the story was dropped completely.

If this is true, that department needs fucked by a Holmesian-sized lawsuit. It's unacceptable to train officers to react to a call ("active shooter" or otherwise) by shooting first and asking questions later. Too many potential problems: maybe the caller is an idiot (like here), maybe he has a grudge, maybe he's playing a (very unfunny) joke - and that's not even accounting for confusion over the location and the alleged perpetrator. It's just unacceptable. I also get that the cop is scared shitless when he responds. Well, that's the job. Don't go into the field if its incompatible with your temperment and bowel capacity. I sure as hell wouldn't do it.

By the way, man, a lot of good points / food for thought in your post.

[SagebrushSage]

*deleting old posts*