American Sniper

[BikerDude]

Saw the movie and I'd say it was good.
Actually very moving.
But....
A big but.
I've come to find out a lot of very troubling stuff about the "hero" of the movie.
I seems like he was continually very challenged when it came to telling the truth.
Over and over people had (he's deceased now) called him out about his lies.
http://mpmacting.com/blog/2014/7/19/truth-justice-and-the-curious-case-of-chris-kyle

Firstly he had claimed to have punched Jesse Ventura in the face. He was sued by Ventura who claimed that the incident never took place and that he had no memory of ever meeting Chris Kyle. Pictures taken the night of the alleged incident back up Ventura along with testimony of multiple people who were present.  A jury found that the story was fabricated and awarded Ventura 1.8 million dollars for character assassination.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/jesse-ventura-american-snipers-chris-kyle-is-a-liar-not-a-hero/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2bA9t4Nn58

While the claims about the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and the carjacking incident were met with some general disbelief, the mention of Ventura's name introduced a separate credibility issue for Kyle in the form of a lawsuit filed by Ventura against Kyle after the latter's appearance on O'Reilly's show. After Kyle died in 2013 the suit continued against his estate, and a jury eventually found Kyle's estate had improperly profited from claims made by the decedent that had no basis in provable fact and awarded Ventura $1.8 million dollars in damages:
Legal experts said Ventura, a former Navy SEAL, had to clear a high legal bar to win, since as a public figure he had to prove actual malice. According to the jury instructions, Ventura had to prove with "clear and convincing evidence" that Kyle either knew or believed what he wrote was untrue, or that he harbored serious doubts about its truth.

[Ventura attorney David Bradley] Olsen said Kyle's claims that Ventura said he hated America, thought the U.S. military was killing innocent civilians in Iraq and that the SEALs "deserve to lose a few" had made him a pariah in the community that mattered most to him ? the brotherhood of current and former SEALs.

Olsen said inconsistencies in testimony from defense witnesses about what happened the night of Oct. 12, 2006, were so serious that their stories couldn't be trusted. He also pointed out that people who were with Ventura that night testified that the alleged confrontation never happened. And he said Ventura would never have said any of the remarks attributed to him because he remains proud of his and his parents' military service.

Chris Kyle's claim he'd fired upon and killed dozens of "looters" after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005 preceded the other two tales. The story circulated through postings on several web sites and through a number of news articles, as well as being passed from person to person in both the online and offline worlds:

The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one. In the days after Hurricane Katrina, he said, the law-and-order situation was dire. He and another sniper travelled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceeded to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos. Three people shared with me varied recollections of that evening: the first said that Kyle claimed to have shot thirty men on his own; according to the second, the story was that Kyle and the other sniper had shot thirty men between them; the third said that she couldn't recall specific details.

Had Kyle gone to New Orleans with a gun? Rumors of snipers ? both police officers and criminal gunmen ? circulated in the weeks after the storm. Since then, they have been largely discredited. A spokesman for U.S. Special Operations Command, or SOCOM, told me, "To the best of anyone's knowledge at SOCOM, there were no West Coast SEALs deployed to Katrina." When I related this account to one of Kyle's officers, he replied, sardonically, "I never heard that story." The SEAL with extensive experience in special-mission units wondered how dozens of people could be shot by high-velocity rifles and just disappear; Kyle's version of events, he said, "defies the imagination."
Indeed, the account does not hold water simply on the grounds cited in the passage quoted above. Imagining that SEALs were deployed to New Orleans in the chaotic days that followed Katrina is not exceptionally hard, considering the level of disorder that followed the devastation wrought by the hurricane. But the notion that dozens of Americans were shot dead on mere suspicion of (relatively minor) crimes, on American soil and with the full support of a system of law that otherwise does not allow for such summary
punitive actions, challenges credulity to a very large degree. Moreover, thirty or so bodies of local residents slain in such a manner never turned up as corroborative evidence of such a claim. The circumstance Kyle claimed would have required the silence and compliance of all witnesses, the families of the dead, all involved law enforcement agencies, and untold others who might have become aware of killings meted out under inarguably public circumstances. Had Kyle and his fellows truly dispatched such a large number of looters or "residents who were contributing to the chaos" (who had neither been charged with nor convicted of any crime, much less a capital one), some other evidence of this tale would have emerged. One person disappearing under such circumstances is unusual; thirty or so is truly unbelievable.

I'd like to believe in the hero that is depicted in the film but to be honest I'm having a tough time believing any of it is true at all. I have to wonder about the 150 credited kills. There are just too many instances where people have said that he had lied about many things.
Here's the O'Reilly interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDyAT1TVQ9Q

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp

[Reverend Al]

This is why filmmakers like to include disclaimers like "Based on a true story" in the titles or credits.  First, because it absolves them from having to adhere to the absolute truth, and covers their asses if what they thought was the truth is later determined not to be.  Second, because it's a marketing ploy.  Remember the Coen Brothers' movie Fargo?  They added the disclaimer "Based on a true story" because they wanted audiences to believe the story (i.e., suspend disbelief), but the movie was still a work of fiction.

[BikerDude]

This is why filmmakers like to include disclaimers like "Based on a true story" in the titles or credits.  First, because it absolves them from having to adhere to the absolute truth, and covers their asses if what they thought was the truth is later determined not to be.  Second, because it's a marketing ploy.  Remember the Coen Brothers' movie Fargo?  They added the disclaimer "Based on a true story" because they wanted audiences to believe the story (i.e., suspend disbelief), but the movie was still a work of fiction.

I'm less concerned about the movie than the reality that a guy might have become canonized as the "greatest sniper in history" and a hero based on a pack of lies.
Given the nearly infinite level of seeming bull crap that he was known to have spewed it's hard to believe in the "hero".
His story about the carjacking while I suppose could have happened as he said is very very very difficult to believe. As is his story of being on top of the super dome shooting "looters".

Chris told many people, and some reporters, that just after his return from Iraq in 2009, he was carjacked by two men at a gas station on a remote Texas highway. Chris asked the men if he could reach into his truck to get his keys, and as he did he pulled a pistol from his waistband and shot both men in the chest from under his armpit. The two men were killed instantly. Chris called the police and waited for them while leaning against his truck. The police came, Chris handed them a phone number to call at the Pentagon. The cops called the number, and the people at the Pentagon told the cops that Chris Kyle was a war hero and a Navy SEAL. The police also went inside and watched the gas station surveillance video of the incident. The cops then let Chris go on his way. Chris claimed he got emails from cops all across the country after the incident thanking him for "keeping the streets clean". Great story. Except none of it is true.  Not a word. There were no carjackers, no dead bodies, no cops, none of it. He made the whole thing up.

A movie that stretches the truth is no new thing or even a big deal. But real hero's should matter. We really should honor them. If somebody lied their way into the label then it's a very big deal IMO.

[Reverend Al]

I'm less concerned about the movie than the reality that a guy might have become canonized as the "greatest sniper in history" and a hero based on a pack of lies.  Given the nearly infinite level of seeming bull crap that he was known to have spewed it's hard to believe in the "hero".

I haven't read Kyle's book or seen the movie (yet) and, except for this thread, haven't read anything that either confirms or refutes any claims made.  But I do know it wouldn't be the first example of "when the legend becomes fact, print the legend" in recorded history. 

A movie that stretches the truth is no new thing or even a big deal. But real hero's should matter. We really should honor them. If somebody lied their way into the label then it's a very big deal IMO.

I couldn't agree more.  But then, I've never seen a real hero who boasted of his/her deeds to get a book or a movie deal.  Real heroes simply do what needs to be done without asking for recognition; others decide whether or not they're heroes.

[BikerDude]

Bradley Cooper: 'Sniper' Controversy Distracts From Film's Message About Vets

http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2015/02/02/383302293/fresh-air-for-february-2-2015?showDate=2015-02-02

[Judd Dude]

Haven't seen the flick, though I'd like to, and have t read a lick of Myles story.
I will say this though, IMO heroes aren't "self-proclaimed".
In fact when that happens pretty much anything said hero did becomes null.

[Hominid]

I enjoyed the flick, cause well, I like sniping myself. (Nothing fancy - just a .22 airgun with tactical red dot scope & flashlight, so I don't need a spotter.  ;-) )   But the stories of him picking off armed looters in New Orleans is disturbing... Self appointed judge, jury, and executioner.  Yish...

[Fvck you Meeks]

"Tis all distorted, by the media, by Hollywood, by history, by conversation, I haven't walked in his moccasins, only my Corcorans.
I wouldn't presume to judge.