Bill Nye VS Ken Hamm (Creation Museum)

[Shagbeard]

In the interest of keeping our peace, may I suggest the thread stay focused on the Nye-Ham debate?

I know threads always go on tangents, but should we keep this one on track? (And before anyone says otherwise, that's not aimed at anyone in particular since so far it has stayed peaceful.)

Funny, I just tagged the thread as a tumbleweed.
Right then... I am cool Mask dude, I seen your posts and it appears we can see that Shagbeard is not up with the whole Hamm camp.
Peace to you and abide well

[Hominid]

Thank you for the reminder MD - Icon engaged me, and so it started... no hard feelings Icon, I enjoy the back and forth.  Anyway, back to Hamm: He more than others makes it clear that it is our world view and personal value systems that govern how we interpret evidence.  We make the assumption that someone with a science background has the ability to examine what lays before him, and apply non-biased observations about the nature of said evidence, but he himself says he FILTERS such evidence through his Christian beliefs. At least he admits to the fact he is approaching the table with a bias.  Truth be told, we all do this including the non-theists.  Each side believes we have an edge over the other; the Christian because they have the word of god and the creator himself on their side; the non-theist because they have evidence, truth, and logic on theirs. The Christian says "But I AM applying logic to the evidence I observe." - The non-theist retorts "But you're interpreting it incorrectly!".  Laughable man!

What both must ask is this: is it pure truth we are seeking?  If so, how do we determine what this truth is?  Are we willing to change our minds when new truths are revealed?  All good questions.  My opinion (not being preachy here) is that *actual and real* facts and truth are more important that what any of us think they are at any given moment.  IOW, are we willing to change our paradigms based on new evidence? 

Uh oh - here come the philosophers!!!!!  Solipsism anyone?  ;-)

[MindAbiding]

Hey Dudes,

Just my two cents on the religion/science intersection. I think it's good to point out that religion and science can coexist with one another, but it's also important to recognize that somebody committed to a scientific worldview privileges beliefs that come from systematic observation and measurement of the physical world over beliefs that do not. To someone with a scientific worldview, the former beliefs are in fact superior to the latter beliefs. And in that sense, not all beliefs are made equal.

Often, science-minded people like to harp on religious people for being "irrational." Now, there are plenty of irrational folks in the world, religious and not. But, actually religion at its best is a system of rational beliefs (i.e., if you grant X, then it follows that Y). It's just not necessarily a system of beliefs grounded in the observable world. So, it's not irrational to believe that the world was created by a divine being, it's just (to a science-minded person) a belief that is inferior to one that is based upon observation of the natural world.

Thoughts?

[Hominid]

+1 MA.   

[MindAbiding]

I dig your short hand, man. Thankee!

+1 MA.

[Masked Dude]

Well put.

[Rev. Iconocclesiastes]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

--Albert Einstein

[Hominid]

Hah!  These dudes are so entertaining!

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson_begs_ken_ham_to_shut_up/

[Rev. Iconocclesiastes]

Hah!  These dudes are so entertaining!

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson_begs_ken_ham_to_shut_up/

Honinid, where do you live, man?  Do you live in the States?

[Hominid]

Why does it matter where I live?

[Rev. Iconocclesiastes]

Why does it matter where I live?

It doesn't.  Just asking, man.

[Masked Dude]

Hah!  These dudes are so entertaining!

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson_begs_ken_ham_to_shut_up/

The only thing funnier is if Jack van Impe told Ham to shush.: )

[DigitalBuddha]

Hah!  These dudes are so entertaining!

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson_begs_ken_ham_to_shut_up/

Honinid, where do you live, man?  Do you live in the States?

He lives in the country of Beer in the county of Vagina........the lucky bastard. 

[Yeti]

When you agree to publicly debate a clown, you legitimize his clownish beliefs. This is just stupidity as performance art.

[meekon5]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

--Albert Einstein

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

From his letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind.