Question ANY authority

[Bullett00th]

Hello, fellow dudes.


Before skipping this thread because 'this will never happen to me and my people', please know that only 3 months ago I would never, ever have thought I would be writing what I am writing now.


I live in Ukraine and, as you may or may not know, there is a revolution happening here right now. People are standing up against the government that has basically been taken over by bandits who do nothing but suck out the country budget and take away any business that rises above the 'small business' threshold. While nobody - and I repeat, NOBODY wants the current government, many people are against the revolution as the opposition wants to basically sell the country to the slowly collapsing European market.

I do not intend to bore you with the political details (I myself have been fully apolitical until 3 months ago when this whole thing started), but what matters is not the politics. What I see right now is one of the most peaceful nations I've known standing on the brink of civil war over a dispute that we cannot solve legally.

Being an ex-journalist, I try to see as many opinions on the matter as I can, and what I see in mass media is lies being fed to both sides, from both sides. And the worst kind of lies are the 'incomplete truths', where the media shows just enough truth to form a seemingly obvious opinion, while hiding the other side  While you may say 'well this is obvious', you'll be surprised at how easy it is to manipulate people who are desperate enough for ANY changes. I scroll through my facebook newsfeed and can't believe that some of my great friends shout 'hurray' for blood and conflict if it means new government. I see these same friends fight (verbally so far) with their friends, brothers, sisters and parents over this. I see people ravaging their own streets for improvised weaponry.


I've never been a huge patriot, but I fear for my country and I never, EVER thought what is happening  now would ever be possible. But I guess nothing is impossible when 'the people above' are trying to split territory.
So... no matter where you live, who you are and what your political views may be, please, QUESTION EVERYTHING YOU ARE TOLD!!! these fuckers won't stop at anything to create and fuel your hatred, turning it into their tool of dominance.
Be peaceful, be patient, be thoughtful and be careful. What you see in the news today about 'somewhere too far for me to care in a country not civilized for me to bother' may be at your doorstep tomorrow for seemingly no reason.


I'm sorry for going political here. It's just that my heart is bleeding looking at this madness: as a dude, as a Ukrainian and as a human being who desperately tries to look at the world John Lennon way

[meekon5]

A work colleague from Iran said something similar.

We have no clue how close to chaos and the fall of our country we actually are. She said she lived in Iran with her family, nice middle class people just doing a job, going to school, thinking day-to-day nothing would change everything was stable and safe. Only to witness the complete reversal of society, only to find she and her family had to flee to the west to be safe.

She also said how easily it could happen here (in the UK) or in the US. We both have an ever growing underclass of impoverished unemployed, that could be pushed to the limit at any moment.

[Bullett00th]

the system is rotten at its core. unfortunately there is not much we can do about it, but what we CAN do is not fall into the trap of hatred. it's always artificially fuelled.

[Masked Dude]

I've had that attitude for as long as I can remember, thankfully. I have lots of friends and family who are stuck on sides. Even if it's good I'll question it. I would rather research something than have a half-assed opinion.

[elgranduderino]

Being a conscientious objector to hatred, lies, violence and aggression is very difficult when there are victims in both sides involved. One easily questions pacifism when the shit is hitting the fan hard. I too have experience violence, aggression, death and hatred due in part to a country's civil unrest and living in rotten gang infested communities. Yet, what always kept my mind at peace and myself intact from slipping was the non-violent approach. Even though I do not know you, sir; I wish you and your nation the best of luck. Good vibes to you and always critic all thinking.   

[Bullett00th]

Being a conscientious objector to hatred, lies, violence and aggression is very difficult when there are victims in both sides involved. One easily questions pacifism when the shit is hitting the fan hard. I too have experience violence, aggression, death and hatred due in part to a country's civil unrest and living in rotten gang infested communities. Yet, what always kept my mind at peace and myself intact from slipping was the non-violent approach. Even though I do not know you, sir; I wish you and your nation the best of luck. Good vibes to you and always critic all thinking.   

thank you very much, dude. it is very important to me that there are people out there who can still keep their cool even in these hard times.
what pains me even more is how the media clearly draws the line between good and evil, where in truth there's a bit of both on both sides.

[elgranduderino]

Dude, I've been following the Associated Press' news about your nation since December... some crazy shit. I really hope it doesn't come to worst. Stay safe dude and abide as much as you can without getting fucked in the ass by a stranger... 

[The_Sleevez]

True words for sure mainstream media is almost always owned by the rich. I took a media communication course in university. Scared the shit out of me how easy it is to completely twist the facts to suit their needs keep people scared and obedient. Hard to abide sometimes.

[jgiffin]

Bumping this because I'd be interested in hearing an up-close and personal account of developments in the Ukraine since this exchange? Any dudes out there who can cut through about $43 billion worth of agenda based US reporting?

[Bullett00th]

Bumping this because I'd be interested in hearing an up-close and personal account of developments in the Ukraine since this exchange? Any dudes out there who can cut through about $43 billion worth of agenda based US reporting?

well... everything is kinda shit, tbh.

since then we had over a 100 people shot in one day. there were snipers shooting at both protesters (shielded but unarmed) and armed riot police. kind of like what's been happening in Syria. the ex-president left the country and now resides in Russia, his ex-opponent got out of prison (what a surprise) and ran for president. the temporary parliament is shit, we experienced severe currency devaluation and overall instability. the nationalists KINDA got into the government, but they barely decide anything and it seems like nobody on top ever intended for them to have any real power. they were used as a card, helping create a real force for the revolution, but thus giving Russia's mass media a carte blanche to show the 'real face of the revolution, driven by fascists'. it's funny to think about it now, because it sounded like dumb propaganda aimed at those who barely think, but while it was massively exaggerated at first, it did have a reason behind it. in February a small but active part of Maidan moved to another street where the riot police were guarding the parliament building. it was peaceful protesting at first, but in the crowd there were masked people throwing molotov cocktails. mind you not all of them were trained nationalists, some were just common folk either avenging a friend who got beaten during the initial protests or remembering a beating at the police station. we have that happening in our country... and there's 0 trust for police, so you see where the aggression comes from.

Russia took over Crimea with inside forces, so I doubt there was ever any real invasion in the classic sense of the word. we did have an agreement for Russia to store a certain amount of military power in Crimea in order to guard the fleet, which is completely logical and fair, seeing as Crimea was given to Ukraine in the USSR times. so basically Russia transferred the allowed military capacity and helped hold a quick referendum for Crimea's separation. both the legality of this referendum and the truth of its results are debatable, but I would not be surprised if the majority truly just wanted out. many Crimean residents never liked being a part of Ukraine, and no matter how patriotic I can be, it's not my right to judge them. besides, as a hugely russian-populated region many Crimeans feared pressure from the newly established government.

since then we have two sides with two symbols.
we had another tragedy in Odessa where anti-new-government activists where chased into a building and burnt. armed people capturing buildings in the eastern Ukraine, they also held a referendum for the status of an independent republic. the new government doesn't acknowledge the referendum and sends in the army, starting an anti-terrorist operation. when the glorious anti-terrorists arrive at their destination, they are greeted by the anti-new-government part of the population who basically tells them to fuck off.

we had elections on sunday and the new president is another oligarch who is supported by a big part of the population, but he aims at strengthening the ATO. so there are raids, banditism and shootouts in the East.

those few who offer the voice of reason and methods of solving the situation without conflict are just unpopular.
smells like civil war and I still can't believe people got caught up on hatred propaganda so easily.

[jgiffin]

The update is much appreciated, dude. It's a shame incorrect usage of the word "fascist" dulled the edge it used to wield. It really is particularly descriptive of a specific variant of authoritarianism. Seems appropriate for this situation but I won't pretend to know the facts.

Best hopes for you guys over there, man. Not a fair deal at all.

[jdurand]

Thanks for the update, hard to get real news in this country.

[BikerDude]

It's really difficult to figure out from the news here what is going on.
The only consistent feeling I get is that we are not getting the entire story.
Recently I heard a "classic" blurb on the news that said that the election was being sanctioned as fair by the international community. OK. Then it had a kicker "despite the fact that millions were kept from the polls by armed gunmen". WTF!?
Based on that I just concluded that we wouldn't be getting the whole story any time soon.
Please keep updates coming. We do indeed need some unvarnished real news.
Thx.

[Bullett00th]

no problem, but keep in mind this is my personal view on the situation, as people all over Ukraine have different opinions.

If you want 'the other side' of the news, I suggest checking out Russia Today's reports, they're in English. not to say they aren't full of propaganda, but pretty much every major informational channel is.
What I've learned and am still learning to do is find specifically different views on the same news from different sources. Once you have a big picture from multiple perspectives, you can try to filter out the BS and personal opinions, and build your own based on the facts that all sides agree upon.

Never ever acknowledge only one source or side of informational war because at one point it will pull you to hating a certain group of people.



@BikerDude: yeah, the whole eastern region didn't vote. Some by conscious will, others because the voting sectors have been ceased by armed men. The international community approved of this because the US government does, they like dictating what's legitimate and what's not. It's Kosovo all over again. Funnily enough there wasn't even an official impeachment process for the ex-president. Not saying that I am in any way for him, but it just shows how chaotically the new government came to power.

All in all, I feel like Russia's actions condemned it in the eyes of many Ukrainians forever, but at the same time I kind of understandthe reason behind its aggressive countermeasures, seeing as the scenario in Ukraine is in many ways similar to those in Yugoslavia, Tunisia, Syria and such.

[BikerDude]

no problem, but keep in mind this is my personal view on the situation, as people all over Ukraine have different opinions.

If you want 'the other side' of the news, I suggest checking out Russia Today's reports, they're in English. not to say they aren't full of propaganda, but pretty much every major informational channel is.
What I've learned and am still learning to do is find specifically different views on the same news from different sources. Once you have a big picture from multiple perspectives, you can try to filter out the BS and personal opinions, and build your own based on the facts that all sides agree upon.

Never ever acknowledge only one source or side of informational war because at one point it will pull you to hating a certain group of people.



@BikerDude: yeah, the whole eastern region didn't vote. Some by conscious will, others because the voting sectors have been ceased by armed men. The international community approved of this because the US government does, they like dictating what's legitimate and what's not. It's Kosovo all over again. Funnily enough there wasn't even an official impeachment process for the ex-president. Not saying that I am in any way for him, but it just shows how chaotically the new government came to power.

All in all, I feel like Russia's actions condemned it in the eyes of many Ukrainians forever, but at the same time I kind of understandthe reason behind its aggressive countermeasures, seeing as the scenario in Ukraine is in many ways similar to those in Yugoslavia, Tunisia, Syria and such.

I was kind of reading that into it. It's so sad that the press in the US has become no more reliable than Pravda.
No more pravda than pravda I guess.
I know it takes all sides to get a clear picture but the fact that you concede that goes a long way toward suggesting a level of impartiality.
Be safe.