Alan Watts: This Is IT: Become What You Are

[Hominid]

I'm on my second glass of Shiraz/Melbec, so...

Jargon, beliefs, interpretation... I sometimes even chuckle at my own value system, which I *think* is based on purely rational thought, based on evidence, truth, and experience. But there's good argument to even challenge the efficacy of the the scientific method when it comes to consciousness, thought... think ontology. Yet dammit, I want to have a belief system that I can depend on to help me interpret this world of ours, but they all fall short. I think we're all shit outa luck actually; cherry picking from this and that, we create a life philosophy that we think suits us -  till the next revelation. IOW, there's no ONE absolute way to interpret the universe. From nihilism to zen, WE choose what WE think is right.

When I take a big step back, I raise my hands and go - "I dunno". I abide, and that helps me survive. I can truly argue all sides somewhat adequately, and I always examine my motives and reasons for gravitating to any one "slant" or approach (scientific/philosopical/spiritual) based on - you guessed it - the evidence, truth, and experience I have at the time. No single interpretation is the "truth"; truth itself is what's sacred. How do we know what is true? There are as many answers as there are people. *Sigh*.

We've all had a good go in this thread at expressing ourselves, and I treasure this forum for how much fun we can have, and how serious we can get discussing all this shit... it goes deep.

It's all, like, our opinion man.

Be cool.

[forumdude]

I think that's a good way of putting it, Hominid. There's an old saying "beware of a man of one book." There are lots of models out there, and the more we familiarize ourselves with them the more tools we'll have in our belt and the more adaptable we'll be.

Saying "I dunno" is one of the best all purpose tools there is, and one which hardly anyone ever uses these days. "I don't know, Sir." is one of the most underrated lines in TBL. Not as sexy as the others but maybe one of the deepest. When do movie characters every say they don't know something? That's the antithesis of what most screenwriting courses tell you - the characters have to be constantly driving the plot forward and so there's no room for wafflers. I think that's probably had an adverse effect on people over the years. Then again, I dunno.

[Hominid]

That's the antithesis of what most screenwriting courses tell you  - I think that's probably had an adverse effect on people over the years.

Didn't think of it that way... but ya, it's like we're all supposed to have this big life purpose; driving the plot forward. But fuck it. Let's go bowling - or flight simming. (Good insight FD)

[RighteousDude]

When I take a big step back, I raise my hands and go - "I dunno". I abide, and that helps me survive.

Same gig here, Dude. Sometimes ya just gotta live Spicoli's Theme. I do, anyway. The questions are big and some believe the answers are important and must be got right. Fuck! People have been trying to figger this shit out for a long, long time and coming up with different answers every time, and now it's on my head to derive the one true answer? It's just not gonna happen. I'm going to take the easy way out: I don't know. It might not be satisfactory, but it's the most correct answer I've come up with. It's not a concrete foundation for a philosophy, but it leaves a Dude with plenty of options -- and might just be a concrete foundation for a reality.

Ya think?

[BikerDude]

Don't like it? Fuck off

Put away the piece man, they're callin' the cops!

Mark it Zero Smokey!

[BikerDude]

I think one of the problems is that we don't have the vocabulary to talk about abstract concepts like emergent phenomena and mystical experiences and the like so we too often end up resorting to the parlance of science and rhetoric that applies to the realm of objects and things you can point to or touch or record. This ends up causing a lot of miscommunication and people stepping over the line when it comes to applying the appropriate jargon. And even the stuff that is agreed upon I sometimes find a bit off putting. Every mystical tradition seems to support the idea of non-dualism, for instance, the idea that "all is one." I have no idea what that sentence means. It seems like the ultimate cop out. Of course we're all interconnected, but in complex ways and not in a mushy lovey dovey sense. We're also interconnected in parasitic and opportunistic ways. I don't think mysticism should be all about positive vibes and personal power, but more about taking the good with the bad and expanding our frame of reference.

What the fuck am I blathering about? I need more coffee.

We can absolutely experience "all is one".
The experience is real. Interpretation is open. Personally I prefer to stay grounded in ideas that are pretty accepted in the area of psychology and similar philosophical concepts when interpreting personal experiences.
The interesting thing about it is how you get to it.
It's a journey inward.
Once you use that personal experience (no matter how universal it is to other humans) to insist that you are a teapot orbiting Jupiter you have slid off the path IMHO.
I believe that it happens when, through quiet meditation and a strict drug regiment we reach the "old stuff".
The Id in the parlance of our times or the "being in it's self".
When the "ego/being for it's self" truly meets and feels the "id/being for it's self" the conscious mind experiences it as "one with all things". It makes intuitive sense to me. The mentality that does not experience with self awareness is, in a sense, "one with all things". Or more specifically experiences the universe that way.
Becoming aware of that, as in consciously experiencing the "unconscious", it's a real mind blower.
I believe it is our animal selves that we are finding. It has no concept of the "me" or ego in the way that it operates. We are not the teapot.

Strip away the ego and you EXPERIENCE a feeling of being one with all things. To say that based on that feeling we are literally one with all things is like the people who insist that they were Mary Antoinette in a past life because they enjoy dressing up in frilly dresses. Nut jobs.

[BikerDude]

I think that's a good way of putting it, Hominid. There's an old saying "beware of a man of one book." There are lots of models out there, and the more we familiarize ourselves with them the more tools we'll have in our belt and the more adaptable we'll be.

Saying "I dunno" is one of the best all purpose tools there is, and one which hardly anyone ever uses these days. "I don't know, Sir." is one of the most underrated lines in TBL. Not as sexy as the others but maybe one of the deepest. When do movie characters every say they don't know something? That's the antithesis of what most screenwriting courses tell you - the characters have to be constantly driving the plot forward and so there's no room for wafflers. I think that's probably had an adverse effect on people over the years. Then again, I dunno.

HERE HERE!!!!
The greatest sin is the persistent and obstinant replacement of "I don't know" with something we just make up (God for instance). 
Don't take the leap.
It is pure evil.

[cckeiser]

There you (go) dudes. Can't be worried about that shit...life is for living...and bowling!

edit: listening to Let It Be...guess we could say that's pretty much like abiding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEogJacjLTE&feature=share&list=AL94UKMTqg-9Ah4rhz9fT8xFvCPT-Bv0fI

[sugarbeargrizzly]

New here, first post. 

Just wanted to bring this alive again because I didn't see to many Watts convos recently on this forum.

I noticed a lot of reference to new age stuff which is just a way for someone else to pay the mortgage, like Christianity. 

The only explanation that makes any sense to me is the central tenet of Watts' philosophy.   His metaphysics, let me be perfectly clear are that" there is the central Self, you could call it God you could call it anything you like. And its all of us. Its playing all the parts of all beings whatsoever everywhere and anywhere.

And its playing the game of hide and seek with itself. It gets lost, it gets involved in the farthest out adventures but in the end it always wakes up, and comes back to itself. And when you're ready to wake up, you're gonna wake up. And if you're not ready your gonna stay pretending that you're poor little me."

Once you realize that, there is nothing left to do but laugh yourself silly.

All the ideas of heaven and hell, karma and reincarnation, particles and waves to black holes and the Multiverse.  These are not answers, they are just further games we are playing with ourselves.  We keep inventing bigger telescopes and find more universe just the same way we keep slicing subatomic particles with more powerful microscopes and finding something else smaller.  Were never, in this reality, going to finally find the answer-that there is nothing there.  That would ruin the game!  Were creating it because we are It! So dont take it too seriously, its just a ride ;-)

[Masked Dude]

I actually thought something similar:  we look farther and closer but we don't look inside or next to us.

[DigitalBuddha]

New here, first post. 

Just wanted to bring this alive again because I didn't see to many Watts convos recently on this forum.

I noticed a lot of reference to new age stuff which is just a way for someone else to pay the mortgage, like Christianity. 

The only explanation that makes any sense to me is the central tenet of Watts' philosophy.   His metaphysics, let me be perfectly clear are that" there is the central Self, you could call it God you could call it anything you like. And its all of us. Its playing all the parts of all beings whatsoever everywhere and anywhere.

And its playing the game of hide and seek with itself. It gets lost, it gets involved in the farthest out adventures but in the end it always wakes up, and comes back to itself. And when you're ready to wake up, you're gonna wake up. And if you're not ready your gonna stay pretending that you're poor little me."

Once you realize that, there is nothing left to do but laugh yourself silly.

All the ideas of heaven and hell, karma and reincarnation, particles and waves to black holes and the Multiverse.  These are not answers, they are just further games we are playing with ourselves.  We keep inventing bigger telescopes and find more universe just the same way we keep slicing subatomic particles with more powerful microscopes and finding something else smaller.  Were never, in this reality, going to finally find the answer-that there is nothing there.  That would ruin the game!  Were creating it because we are It! So dont take it too seriously, its just a ride ;-)

Big Alan Watts fan here, dude! I dig the way he did business. Good to have you here, sugarbeargrizzly. Nice first post. Grab yourself a place on the rug and abide, mang! Bar's over there, feel free to help yourself!

[sugarbeargrizzly]

Thanks man, good to be here.  The dude definitely abides.  Watts introduced me to so much, but as I go off and research the stuff hes talking about, I realize that for me personally, hes the best teacher.  I guess thats because he seems so real, if there ever were such a thing.

New here, first post. 

Just wanted to bring this alive again because I didn't see to many Watts convos recently on this forum.

I noticed a lot of reference to new age stuff which is just a way for someone else to pay the mortgage, like Christianity. 

The only explanation that makes any sense to me is the central tenet of Watts' philosophy.   His metaphysics, let me be perfectly clear are that" there is the central Self, you could call it God you could call it anything you like. And its all of us. Its playing all the parts of all beings whatsoever everywhere and anywhere.

And its playing the game of hide and seek with itself. It gets lost, it gets involved in the farthest out adventures but in the end it always wakes up, and comes back to itself. And when you're ready to wake up, you're gonna wake up. And if you're not ready your gonna stay pretending that you're poor little me."

Once you realize that, there is nothing left to do but laugh yourself silly.

All the ideas of heaven and hell, karma and reincarnation, particles and waves to black holes and the Multiverse.  These are not answers, they are just further games we are playing with ourselves.  We keep inventing bigger telescopes and find more universe just the same way we keep slicing subatomic particles with more powerful microscopes and finding something else smaller.  Were never, in this reality, going to finally find the answer-that there is nothing there.  That would ruin the game!  Were creating it because we are It! So dont take it too seriously, its just a ride ;-)

Big Alan Watts fan here, dude! I dig the way he did business. Good to have you here, sugarbeargrizzly. Nice first post. Grab yourself a place on the rug and abide, mang! Bar's over there, feel free to help yourself!

[dudekickinit]

I like to see it that this whole good times resort that we call the universe is The Dude taking er easy. We're all the dude in these bodies, and after this body, we'll keep on takin er easy as the dude before we take er easy again in a new form to keep on takin er easy. The Dude how I see it is the awareness in each of us that is everywhere, we are either the Dude chilling everywhere or temporarily localised as form. Anyone got any thoughts on that?