Joe Bob

[Hominid]

The sexism and repression IS the religion.
It's spelled out in scripture. How can we be surprised when the results are exactly what is spelled out?
Just because there are people who DON'T follow it and live a decent life while calling themselves by a name does nothing but give cover to the true adherents.
In my personal opinion we have a majority of people who adhere and defend their religion NOT AS RELIGION but as culture. I've known lots of people who call themselves Catholic or Protestant or whatever and will defend the religion and have NEVER read the bible and know zero about the history of that religion.
But they were raised that way. Day to day their behavior has absolutely nothing to do with anything that the religion preaches. (Obviously since they don't actually know what it is that the religion preaches)
But they would insist that it does. I guess it's beamed into their brains from heaven or something.

I think you're being a little hard on the christians dude. Not all of them are fundamentalists and just because some aren't doesn't mean they haven't read their own book. I think most modern christians are mainly into the vibe of the new testament whereas most people criticising christianity point to the dodgy stuff in the old testament which plenty of christian dudes really aren't hung up about.

Nah, BD is just saying "Take a closer look at your religion, cause it's fucked up". There's no such thing as a religious moderate; they provide cover (and an excuse) for the ones who REALLY take it seriously, so they are in fact complicit in their wrongdoings.

You could say that kindergarten teaching provides cover for paedophiles, and in some cases that will be true. Does that mean you get rid of kindergarten?
Once you get rid of kindergarten all the kids will be home-educated and that's just providing fertile ground for fundamentalist indoctrination.
So you see dude your argument is really pretty confused.

Kindergarten and pedophilia do not share the same close roots in the way religious moderates and religious extremists do.  You're the one that's confused for even trying that as an analogy. You'll argue with me because you don't want to acknowledge the truth of my point. And it's not just my opinion.

You need to understand that we don't just have a "thing" for Christianity (or Islam for that matter). It's any system of belief that provides safe harbour for whack jobs  who believe in world domination via their religion, in addition to it being protected by society and government (think "Christian Right" in the US, or Islam in the middle east). That on top of how the less harmless whack jobs provide such great material for comedians... I'll make fun of them so long as they exist.

[BikerDude]

The sexism and repression IS the religion.
It's spelled out in scripture. How can we be surprised when the results are exactly what is spelled out?
Just because there are people who DON'T follow it and live a decent life while calling themselves by a name does nothing but give cover to the true adherents.
In my personal opinion we have a majority of people who adhere and defend their religion NOT AS RELIGION but as culture. I've known lots of people who call themselves Catholic or Protestant or whatever and will defend the religion and have NEVER read the bible and know zero about the history of that religion.
But they were raised that way. Day to day their behavior has absolutely nothing to do with anything that the religion preaches. (Obviously since they don't actually know what it is that the religion preaches)
But they would insist that it does. I guess it's beamed into their brains from heaven or something.

I think you're being a little hard on the christians dude. Not all of them are fundamentalists and just because some aren't doesn't mean they haven't read their own book. I think most modern christians are mainly into the vibe of the new testament whereas most people criticising christianity point to the dodgy stuff in the old testament which plenty of christian dudes really aren't hung up about.

It is amazing that people feel that they can cherry pick what they want from religion.
The reality is that each of those religions explicitly state that is precisely not allowed. I cannot think of any example of anything that is more explicitly unforgiving of that than religion.
Christianity including the new testament does not have wiggle room about picking and choosing what you want from the bible. Jesus himself stated that it was to be followed entirely.
Just saying that you think that Jesus was a groovy guy does not make a person a Christian any more that saying that you dig Buddha's style makes a person a Buddhist.
There are rules Dude. This is not Nam.

I'm saying that from my experience a LOT of people defend their faith more because they derive identity from it than any real adherence to anything about it. It's more like rooting for a sports team. In my experience it is very common (most common for people under about 70) for people to call themselves christian and not go to church, never have read the bible and essentially have nothing to do with it other than having been taught from birth that they are of that faith. If pressed on what they believe the best that you get is some vague feel good drivel that would probably be the same thing that people would cough up about being a Dudeist or a member of the Elks Club.
Religion by it's own precepts simply is not that.
A person is a Buddhist or Christian by BEING a Buddhist or Christian meaning living according to rules.
Calling the sky purple does not make it so.

[Boston Rockbury]

I don't have any problem with the whole 'flow of consciousness' writing style dude - but like, what are you actually saying?

Of course people can cherry pick from religions, Christianity included, people do it all the time. Just because the sign says 'keep off the grass' doesn't stop people lighting one up.

[BikerDude]

I don't have any problem with the whole 'flow of consciousness' writing style dude - but like, what are you actually saying?

Of course people can cherry pick from religions, Christianity included, people do it all the time. Just because the sign says 'keep off the grass' doesn't stop people lighting one up.

But how can someone call themselves a Christian if the church would not agree with them?
A person can cherry pick from religion but when they then claim to be a christian it's just not true unless they follow the faith. Or at least have some idea of what the faith even is.
It's not a hat that a person put on.

[Boston Rockbury]

Sure about that?

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[BikerDude]

Sure about that?

What's special about open recuitment?


If Oprah Winfrey joined up would that make her Klan?
Of course not. Because she doesn't do or believe anything that the Klan prescribes specifically as their thing.

[Boston Rockbury]

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[BikerDude]

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Exactly!
Fake Klan.
If they tell me about how the Klan is about family and a positive message for the white man it does not change the reality of what the Klan actually is.

[Boston Rockbury]

But who has the right to determine if someone else's take on a certain faith is fake or real. People are entirely free to interpret a religious scripture as they wish.

[Hominid]

But who has the right to determine if someone else's take on a certain faith is fake or real. People are entirely free to interpret a religious scripture as they wish.

...they can make that determination simply by knowing what the teachings are about that faith. I'm fairly well versed in the bible, so I know for instance that if a woman is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night, she is to be stoned to death. So, Christians decide to cherry-pick and ignore such directives. That's how we know their faith is fake. Even Jesus said every rule must be followed to the "T"...

[Boston Rockbury]

But who has the right to determine if someone else's take on a certain faith is fake or real. People are entirely free to interpret a religious scripture as they wish.

...they can make that determination simply by knowing what the teachings are about that faith. I'm fairly well versed in the bible, so I know for instance that if a woman is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night, she is to be stoned to death. So, Christians decide to cherry-pick and ignore such directives. That's how we know their faith is fake. Even Jesus said every rule must be followed to the "T"...

that's just plain crazy dude; to say that someone's faith is fake because they have the sense to use their intuition and common sense to edit out some shit that got packaged up with their religion. that's not fake dude that's what it's all about. I mean seriously dude  -  what are you saying!!!!

[Hominid]

But who has the right to determine if someone else's take on a certain faith is fake or real. People are entirely free to interpret a religious scripture as they wish.

...they can make that determination simply by knowing what the teachings are about that faith. I'm fairly well versed in the bible, so I know for instance that if a woman is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night, she is to be stoned to death. So, Christians decide to cherry-pick and ignore such directives. That's how we know their faith is fake. Even Jesus said every rule must be followed to the "T"...

that's just plain crazy dude; to say that someone's faith is fake because they have the sense to use their intuition and common sense to edit out some shit that got packaged up with their religion. that's not fake dude that's what it's all about. I mean seriously dude  -  what are you saying!!!!

I'm saying what I said. Editing a religion's directives waters it down. Calling oneself a Christian or Muslim or Scientologist after leaving behind its prime directives is like calling yourself a cook when all you can do is boil water.

[Boston Rockbury]

But who has the right to determine if someone else's take on a certain faith is fake or real. People are entirely free to interpret a religious scripture as they wish.

...they can make that determination simply by knowing what the teachings are about that faith. I'm fairly well versed in the bible, so I know for instance that if a woman is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night, she is to be stoned to death. So, Christians decide to cherry-pick and ignore such directives. That's how we know their faith is fake. Even Jesus said every rule must be followed to the "T"...

that's just plain crazy dude; to say that someone's faith is fake because they have the sense to use their intuition and common sense to edit out some shit that got packaged up with their religion. that's not fake dude that's what it's all about. I mean seriously dude  -  what are you saying!!!!

I'm saying what I said. Editing a religion's directives waters it down. Calling oneself a Christian or Muslim or Scientologist after leaving behind its prime directives is like calling yourself a cook when all you can do is boil water.

It's more like not putting shit in your food just because some joker added it to the recipe.

[Hominid]

Kinda my point...

[Boston Rockbury]

Kinda my point...

Not really dude. The bible (recipe for religion) contains a certain amount of shit. You can edit that out without ditching the whole menu of your spiritual beliefs.
This is actually what pretty much everybody other than fundamentalists do. It's complete nonsense to say that the prime directive of Christianity is to stone none virgin brides to death. Spirituality is about a vibe. That vibe when codefied becomes a religion. But between vibe and code there are always mistakes. Thankfully we have brains which allow us to tune into the vibe and tune out the shit. I'm not a Christian. I don't like Christianity but I respect the right of any Christian to follow their faith I the way in which they choose. And if they leave out the shit in an effort to get closer to the vibe, that can only be a good thing.